today born the SSM(Sweat Sellers Moviment)!!!!!! Sweat sellers, hear me!!!!

[Kaiser]

I'm sorry, is Akruz blind, or is it me? Options 1 and 3 combined don't even have more votes than option two which is the option for sweat hogs that think they just have to accept what they can get.

It seems to me that most of them (the sweaters) know that they cannot control the market because there are factors involved that are beyond their control. Is Akruz the only one that can't see it?

Tell you what Akruz, and this is sincere, so please don't think I am being an ass... If you really REALLY want to control the sweat market prices, then you need to get people to stop sweating completely. Simply take the bulk of the sweat out of the market.

Get your credit card out, make a $5,000 USD deposit and go to the sweat farms like PA, Camp Phoenix and Fort Troy and pay the sweat hogs to just stand there and not sweat.

I can tell you right now, anything less than that effort will do you no good at all. Hundreds of new players out there in the world that need to make a few PED to buy that Opalo. Unless you giving them another means of playing the EU for free, you have to know that they will continue to sweat and continue to sell it for whatever amount they can get.

Great statement, all of my explanation seems to go ununderstood maybe this will get through to him.

 

[grayden]

I totally agree with the SSM!
I am new in the game i can hardly find someone who buys for 1.0 or more.
And as i said when i first met Akruz: SWEATERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!!!

 

[Kaiser]

You might want to go back and read this entire thread. This has been tried quite a few times before and ALWAYS fails. This is economy by supply and demand not by gestapo force.

 

[Grounder]

I have already posted that it can't be done but Black_Rain13 reminded me of a time when sweat prices were changed possatively for a short while.

A group, I believe called the sweat hogs, began buying up sweat at a little higher than market price at the time and managed to keep sweat prices elevated by about +0.3pec/bottle. It was a relative boon time for sweaters as they could always sell the sweat and the price was relatively stable.

I do not have an insider report but believe the group eventually stopped due to heavy losses and were stuck with a large amount of sweat after the experiment that then drove sweat prices lower faster.

So, yes, if your willing to finance it, you can raise sweat prices - but only for as long as you are willing to put the money in.

Grounder

 

[black_rain13]

Even buying up the sweat at a low price and storing it won't change the market any. The fact is that the sweat is still there and when you buy it and stockpile it, you can't really expect to sell it later.

The only option would simply be to pay people to not sweat. Give them the PED they need without making them sweat. Then the sweat stays out of the market and the MF users have to try sweating themselves or they pay a higher price for those who have the patience to do it.

It is called Subsidizing the market. It occurs in real-world markets all the time. USA farmers were getting susidies for years to NOT grow any crops. The purpose of this was to make the market for foreign grown crops more profitable. Hence, boosting the economy for lesser-developed countries.

Really, people, give up this "we are gonna hold out and make you pay more" fight. Just accept that you can't control the market without paying the producers to stop producing.

 

[akruz]

I'm sorry, is Akruz blind, or is it me? Options 1 and 3 combined don't even have more votes than option two which is the option for sweat hogs that think they just have to accept what they can get.

i said that is getting more pewople on our side, not that our side have more people

he price of sweat has NOTHING I repeat NOTHING to do with how much work you did to obtain the sweat.

there is a law that say it? its simple, i get the sweat and i can put my work on the prices, i cant tought, say that its value is 4 pec a unit... if you think is expensive(what is not truth) just go and get your own sweat, i dont will say anymore the consequenses of this action....

 

[zed]

akruz i think the poll results speak for themselves

 

[Tangine]

Sweat is not expensive or cheap. It reflects the ratio between the number of depositors using Mindforce and the non depositors who try to play for free. The problem is that in reality, depositors already pay so that you can sweat !! When you guys gather sweat, it has already been paid for, either by deposits or by the lootpool, so when you gather sweat, you make pure profit out of the game from people who lose money in the game. Do you expect them to give you free peds all your life ?

If you try to set sweat price at 4.0 it means that when i want to use my tp chip it will cost me 50 pecs, or when i heal someone with mindforce it will cost me 5 pecs. Do you think that if sweat price is at 4.0 we will keep giving the noobs focus ? Do you think we will heal them in Fort Troy ? If by some artificial manipulation of the market price of sweat goes at 4.0 i will stop using mindforce because it is already expensive to use when sweat is at 1.0. And who will be whining that no one buys sweat anymore ? That will be you...

Oh, and dude, just so you know : hunting is a hard "work" too... do I get a decent wage from hunting, for the time i spend hunting ? NO. Why ? Because it's not work !! Price of sweat has nothing to do with the effort you put in it : why ? because it's not work either. One of them is more fun to me than the other. And it's the same for a lot of people. But have you seen anywhere in the License agreement that sweat gathering was a job given to you by Mindark ? It's an activity like any other on calypso, and the time you spend gathering sweat is actually your way of paying indirectly for the server fees that allow you to sweat... You want to set price of sweat at 4.0 ? Ok, how about Mindark decides sweat gathering disappears from the planet. No more sweat. What will you do ? You will beg, and begging is exactly what you are doing in this thread.

Entropia has a capitalistic economy ruled (with maybe some exceptions) by supply and demand. Mindark has the supply, we are the demand. If you can't get that in your head, stop playing.

 

[akruz]

wow!!! take down Tangine... you are overreacting, i some time have said that i whant sweat at 4.0 price? i never will whant this because this is not a fair price to... look, i said two things here, first, to people dont sell less than 1.0... just it... and second, maybe we raise the prices for more than 1.0 and maybe we raise it to 1.5... MAYBE! i an happy with a 1.0 sweat price... but i am not and not will be happy with less than this... just it... so calm down and stop to distort what i have said ok? again... just ask to the most people that sweat and they will say that sweat is not fun...
and sweting is a job, just take the concept right... you do something and get paid for it.. so whatever you say will still a job, and dont matter if you have fun with this, you can have fun with your job.. dont forget, is real money here... now you really think that 1.0 is not a fair price?
and a new to all of you! sweating is not more so easy, so stop to ask 0.9 and less for the sweat...
and again Tangine... Read my posts before say something about me ok?
(out topic, today i have found a robot spaceship... yey! 50 free PED^^)

 

[trung]

if sweat less than 0.9 ped,noone want to sell sweat and ofcourse noone gather sweat,and ofcourse noone cant use mindforce,and the result of it MA will sell and gather sweat with price about 1ped

 

[akruz]

if sweat less than 0.9 ped,noone want to sell sweat and ofcourse noone gather sweat,and ofcourse noone cant use mindforce,and the result of it MA will sell and gather sweat with price about 1ped

well, but there people who is buying sweat for less than it, and there people selling to...

 

[Northman]

Baah, 0,5 is a fair price. Now get out and sweat your ass off

Naa, just kidding. Sweating is a way to play for free a couple of hours to see how the game work. Not as away to earn/profit on other players. See it as a gift from depositing players.

 

[Mikah]

You're so wrong... sweat is one of the few activities ingame where you are garanteed to make profit.

I beg to differ, Sweat Gathering is NOT guaranteed to make you profit, because it all depends on HOW you gather it....

If I heal myself, shoot the mob and focus myself using my own ME (not to count in the decay of using the chips) and whether I use armor or not, Im still guaranteed to LOSE, why? Because the sweat I gather is not for sale, I use it for personal use and for those who use Mf, they know that most of the peds invested in ME will go back to the loot pool, since making any sort of profit using Mf is practically impossible....

I think it all comes down to how you gather it, while I enjoy sweating by myself, there are those who sweat in bigger group (avoid decay, healing, killing it, etc) and those are the kind of people that usually end up profiting...

~~~~
Akruz: while I dont necessarily agree with your idea, I'll try to be a bit contructive. I understand how hard gathering sweat is and how unrewarding it can be, Im a depositor and there is no way I could possibly fund my gameplay with sweat... however, it all comes down to your gameplay, the time investing on gathering sweat its to little for the reward you reap in the end, in my eyes, for two hours working Irl I could just buy enough sweat to last me a week, while in two hours sweat time I could get enough sweat to last me for 3 hours max, I personally sweat for the skills, I think you need to question whats more important for you, the time you spend sweating for profit, or the time you spend sweating for fun. While creating some sort of "union" sounds all nice and dandy for sweat gatherers, its something that has been tried before but failed many times.

I suggest perhaps networking with people that use Mf or buy sweat, come up with a current price/fixed price maybe and sell it to him/her, there are many people out there who enjoy having a steady supplier instead of buying it in public.. or perhaps if your part of a society, sell to your soc mates for what you believe its a reasonable price. There are those who sweat their own for personal use, but there is still many more who dont like doing the dirty work and just buy it> these are the people you should target.

Like a few others said before, sweating should not be considered work, its merely a secondary activity (for some primary) in order to achieve some sort of "income" to continue their gameplay, just the same way you have fruit and dung pickers, and this takes a bit more effort imo.

I suggest playing for fun instead of trying to make a way to profit ingame, its too time consuming to make any sort of tangible profit, I sweat for fun, for the supporting skills to mindforce, and from that standpoint, it doesnt seem fair to me, for those who use ME, for the sweat prices to rise, because its already expensive as it is, it's already "useless" and we, who use Mindforce, have to deposit enough already with the current sweat prices.

Put yourself in the shoes of your buyers, before trying to control and manipulate the market. My

P.S. I didnt cast my vote, because there is no "I sweat my own for personal use I am not a buyer" choice.

 

[Stryker]

I remember several months back resellers had pushed sweat up over 3.0 per unit. Thats when several people came together and the price once again returned to the normal +-1.2

 

[Dutchie]

Interesting poll results. More buyers than sellers voted. Yet every time I am in PA I see far more people trying to sell than people trying to buy.

 

[akruz]

for two hours working Irl I could just buy enough sweat to last me a week, while in two hours sweat time I could get enough sweat to last me for 3 hours max

well, i dont work, and dont id because i whant or becasue my dad pay everthing beacuse in fact he dont do it... i dont have much money to deposit in the game, if i start to deposit so this will pas to be a pa game and so i will stop to play... and stop to think that you pay my PEDs, you dont. just to remember you, there are free online agmes and i think they wyn money in some way... so i think that your deposit is not the only source of money of MA.

 

[beautygal]

I watched this thread silently but it's becoming far too amusing. I wish MA would actually enforce the age limit ingame.

That, or EF should impose urgent Economics 101 for all who wish to start a union / market controlling / sweaters united type of thread.

 

[black_rain13]

Mind Force Users Unite!

I've got a suggestion.... All Mind Force users should unite. Let's form a "Mind Force Coalition and only use our powers of Heal and Focus on those who are part of an elite approved group.

When sitting out in Troy or Camp Phoenix or even Port Atlantis, keep a list by your side of those sweat hogs that have agreed to sell at a reasonable market rate and heal and focus them only.

Let's see how quickly they can collect sweat without the FREE assistance of those who buy the sweat and give them rapid healing and focus to make their "job" (as they call it) easier and more profitable.

(Now, everyone that knows me and is part of my regular sweating parties, you know you are all already on my list of approved sweat hogs. )

 

[Mikah]

well, i dont work, and dont id because i whant or becasue my dad pay everthing beacuse in fact he dont do it... i dont have much money to deposit in the game, if i start to deposit so this will pas to be a pa game and so i will stop to play... and stop to think that you pay my PEDs, you dont. just to remember you, there are free online agmes and i think they wyn money in some way... so i think that your deposit is not the only source of money of MA.

When your in Camp Phoenix or any other sweaters/newbies cities, who are the ones that focus you, that heal you, over and over again without asking anything in return?

It is the mindforcers, who spent THEIR Ped's, please spare the "we gain skills" lecture, because the gain skill is mediocre, we do it because we enjoy helping others even if a mere "thank you" is not often heard.

I'm all for helping newcommers, but being ungrateful at the expense of other people is not cool either. This is a FREE game to download and play, but it is us, the depositors, that make this world what it is...

I dont know how old you are, but for those who have played the game for awhile now, now what Im talking about...
And remember, the same sort of "union" like Blackrain said, could go for us who pay from our pedcard to focus/heal those who need it the most..

I'm out of this thread... Good luck to thee.

 

[Aliana]

I can't vote on any category. I neither buy nor sell sweat. I sweat my own for what I need, which isn't much, and just keep a nice little pile of it in storage. The thing is that this will simply never work under present conditions. I came into EU mere days before the sweat cap was removed. I was so new that I didn't even know what a sweat cap was, but only knew a lot of people were talking about it. At that time I was selling sweat for 1.25-1.3 per bottle. Once I learned what the sweat cap was, I felt very lucky in my timing because I expected the price to drop to nothing. I'm actually surprised it's still as high as it is.

The bottom line, as harsh as it sounds, is that Sweat Gatherer is a job that requires no knowledge, no skills and no need for previous experience within EU like many other professions require. That makes you the very bottom of the professions and makes your time in that profession barely worth a pittance. We all know general laborers work damn hard and make crap pay. Why would here be any different?

Compounding that is, indeed, the removal of the sweat cap. At least when the cap was in place, there was no way anyone who had been here for a bit of time could gather their own sweat. That made all new comers irreplaceable and very necessary. Now, your exclusive profession is no longer exclusive which makes new sweat gatherers quite expendable because new comers no longer have a monopoly on the ability to gather sweat.

I'm sorry. Like I said, I know it sounds harsh, but that is simply the breakdown from a business perspective. If you want to dictate the price of something, exclusivity is vital. You have to be the only source, or one of only a small handful, for the commodity you are trying to control. You're only hope with this as things stand now is for MA to come out with such a variety of new incredible items and abilities for MF users in a future vu that it generates a desire within a very large majority of Entropians to start skilling MF in earnest. Right now most of us seem to just tinker with it.

Hugs,
Aliana

 

[akruz]

I watched this thread silently but it's becoming far too amusing. I wish MA would actually enforce the age limit ingame.

That, or EF should impose urgent Economics 101 for all who wish to start a union / market controlling / sweaters united type of thread.

Ask my age before saying anything, i have 20
now, like i said before, i just whant the sweat price dont be under 1.0, just it. Get sweat is more hard now, i dont getting sow much... is not as like you all said that is sweat in the old times, but still more hard to get. ans stop to say that the people who deposit pay the non depositors, you really think that MA will be so stupdy in the point to get all your incomes form the deposits? I really dont know if they have another source and what is it, but i really think they have.

 

[black_rain13]

Ask my age before saying anything, i have 20
now, like i said before, i just whant the sweat price dont be under 1.0, just it. Get sweat is more hard now, i dont getting sow much... is not as like you all said that is sweat in the old times, but still more hard to get. ans stop to say that the people who deposit pay the non depositors, you really think that MA will be so stupdy in the point to get all your incomes form the deposits? I really dont know if they have another source and what is it, but i really think they have.

Ok, I am done being semi-polite in this matter.

Akruz, you keep insisting to everyone that "they need to get it" about what you are trying to do.

YOU NEED TO GET IT!

It doesn't matter if you are trying to raise the price of sweat from .8 to 1.0 or from 1.0 to 3.0... The problem is still the same regardless. There is too much sweat and not enough need for it.

If you think you need more money than you can make from sweating, then get off your chair and go out and get a job. Make some REAL money of your own, or ask your dad not to kick you out of the house when you rack up hundreds of dollars on his credit card.

Either way, there is nothing to get. You are continuing to beat a dead horse and I can't figure out just how thick you have to be to realize that this dead horse isn't going to get you very far!

 

[akruz]

Ok, I am done being semi-polite in this matter.

Akruz, you keep insisting to everyone that "they need to get it" about what you are trying to do.

YOU NEED TO GET IT! It doesn't matter if you are trying to raise the price of sweat from .8 to 1.0 or from 1.0 to 3.0... The problem is still the same regardless. There is too much sweat and not enough need for it.

If you think you need more money than you can make from sweating, then get off your chair and go out and get a job. Make some REAL money of your own, or ask you dad not to kick you out of the house when you rack up hundreds of dollars on his credit card.

Either way, there is nothing to get. You are continuing to beat a dead horse and I can't figure out just how thick you have to be to realize that this dead horse isn't going to get you very far!

i am trying to get a job but is not easy ok? nad dont hack any dollar of my dad credit card and dont even ask him money so dont say what you dont know!!!!!!!

 

[black_rain13]

i am trying to get a job but is not easy ok? nad dont hack any dollar of my dad credit card and dont even ask him money so dont say what you dont know!!!!!!!

Spend more time looking for a job in your RL and less time squabbling about an extra fraction of a penny in some VU that you can't afford to play in.

If you try that approach, you might have better success in your job search and then you might be able to afford to play in the EU later.

And I am sorry if I come across as an ass to you or anyone else, but I sincerely have tried to help you understand that your efforts in this matter are wasted, but you insist that no one else has a clue and that your way is better.

I don't think you were born yesterday, since you say you are 20, but obviously your experiences in RL, the ones that would help you understand why what you are trying to do in the EU is useless, are obviously lacking.

Ass I may be to you and to some others reading this, but at least I am not ignorant to the reality of the problem and the lack of means to correct it.


FINAL NOTE: I am done with this thread. There is no more point beating myself up trying to help someone understand when they have no interest in learning. I will continue to help my sweat hog friends and I am sure they will continue to sell sweat to me at the current market values.

 

[Mkdesign]

Maybe the funniest point in that thread is that the SSM is getting to be known...

Soon 100 replies guys, keep on!

for the sarcastics, that was being ironic

on a side-note, esclavagism is forbidden on calypso (as far as I know nuns excluded xD), so you actually dont trade, sell, buy or bargain any OJ sweater

 

[Frigid]

Erm...good luck with that.

(I wouldn't buy sweat at 1.5 in any situation).

agree on both counts. I'll gather it myself above 1.2.
Supply-Demand. Learn it.

You cannot put a monopoly on soemthing everyone can gather.

ATH on Dunkel Particles and you'd be in a better position to control a market

 

[akruz]

agree on both counts. I'll gather it myself above 1.2.
Supply-Demand. Learn it.

You cannot put a monopoly on soemthing everyone can gather.

ATH on Dunkel Particles and you'd be in a better position to control a market

you all dont see that i have give up of this price? i just whant 1.0... that is all, so, if you will complain about the value i an asking, please say 1.0 is to much(what is not is) just look the value on the poll, i an not saying that less tha 1.5 or 1.2 is not fair, i an saying that less than 1.0 is not fair

 

[Mkdesign]

We first all gotta admit that sweat price is on free-fall, which isn't bad in itself.

But I see no change of sweat acquiring... MA? Push-up please? Oo"

 

[akruz]

which isn't bad in itself.

wel, that is relactive

 

[Agar]

Well, I would have cared about it if I just had started EU which was some time ago...
(uhh, I'm sure I made some grammar mistakes in this sentence. but I'm tired, don't care to check it now )

But now: Sweat price is still falling, I'm bored of (trying) selling it, so I use it for myself...