Universal storage is essential to the survival of new planets. Discuss

Oleg

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Oleg Oleg McMullery
I’ve mentioned this is some other threads but I wanted to put down my thoughts on this in full, so here goes. Sorry but this is going to be a really long post.

Firstly let me define what I mean by “universal storage”. What I mean is, storage that is fully accessible across different planets, so that for example I can put something in storage on Calypso and then remove it into my inventory on Rocktropia without having to worry about taking it with me when I travel between planets.

I don’t believe the concept need necessarily be extended to smaller areas such as CP, so in that sense it isn’t required to be truly universal. Mainly it applies to separate planets which are, or will become, much larger areas.

I should also say that this is not about Rocktropia – it’s bigger than that, and the more planets that come online, and the larger each individual planet becomes, the more this will be needed. However since Rocktropia is the only new planet currently available, I will use that as an example.

I believe that in order for new planets to thrive, it needs to be possible for players to stay on them for a substantial period of time. As things stand, the separated storage and the auction transport fees make this difficult, and at the same time the teleportation cost makes a short-term trip expensive and makes it unviable to come back to Calypso just to pick up some items before returning to Rocktropia.

In order to make a sustained (say one month or more) hunting trip to Rocktropia, I need several things:

  • Hunting gear e.g. weapons, armour, FAPs. Depending on what I’m hunting, I may want several sets of armour and plates for different mobs.
  • Stackable looted items. Like most hunters I gather looted items in storage until I have a large enough stack to make it worth selling, so in order to help my turnover I want to have access to my existing stacks so that I can add to them while hunting on Rocktropia.
  • Blueprints and crafting materials. Some of my loot gets kept for crafting rather than being sold. Again I want to be able to collect substantial stacks so that I can do a longer crafting run instead of 5 clicks at a time. In my case, I like to craft textures with my loot, so I’ll want to have a collection of extractors, for example, as well as blueprints.
  • Miscellaneous items that I might need, e.g. materials for tiering, mining gear for more varied play, etc.

That can add up to a lot of items. In my case I would certainly want to take more than 50 items/stacks with me and probably closer to 100.

That gives me four options if I want to go for a hunting trip to Rocktropia:

  • Spend time before my trip loading items from my storage into my inventory, and then back again when I arrive. When I come back I’ll have to do the same thing all over again.
  • Forget about taking all this stuff, which means changing my play style considerably. Almost inevitably my PED card will suffer as a result as I’m not able to cycle item stacks effectively to raise PEDs for more hunting, and most likely I will run out of PEDs quickly and be forced to return to Calypso.
  • Plan for regular short trips back to Calypso to unload loot or collect new items, with associated costs.
  • Say “Screw it” and stay on Calypso.

Given the inconvenience and/or cost of the first three options, I will almost certainly choose the fourth, and simply not bother going to Rocktropia.

Having to move items from place to place does not add any depth to gameplay. It only adds frustration and inconvenience.

Because of this difficulty, Rocktropia will not develop a community and population of its own, at least not one which includes many current players who consider Calypso as home.

If more people were able to stay longer, the population would be more stable, which would have a knock-on effect by making trading and player interaction easier. This in turn would make it easier to stay there, for example for the many people who regularly buy crafted (L) weapons. If there isn’t a stable population, there will be few crafters and therefore a low local supply of such items, forcing the hunter to pay more (or again, more likely, not bother in the first place).

A more active local economy makes the auction transport fee much less of a difficulty, and the ability to stay for a longer period makes the teleportation fee (and later pilot payments, presumably) much easier to bear.

So give us univeral storage and we can stop worrying about the other factors. Without it, the new planets can not develop, and they will die. When planets start going out of business, potential new partners will lose any interest they had in creating new planets.

I look forward to this being implemented soon :)
 
In total agreement
 
Because of this difficulty, Rocktropia will not develop a community and population of its own, at least not one which includes many current players who consider Calypso as home.

Well that might be part of the plan? :dunno:


However, I agree that storage should be universal :)
 
I doubt it is going to come without us having to pay for it.

However it would maybe increase the numbers of people visiting other places.

"Maybe" because I think the travel between is also important. My personal travelling has much more increased without the necessity of searching for a pilot. I can travel when I want, from anywhere I want.
 
Totally agree. I also save all my stackables and use many for crafting or until they are a big enough stack to sell with MU.

We need universal storage and it needs to hold more items. Especially if the new planets have unique items/materials of their own.
 
No, it's not essential. You are the property of Planet Calypso now. They do not want you leaving without a cost.

If you leave their planet then you are not paying Marco's salary and FPCs overhead anymore.

You must adequately prepare for a journey. Get a large storage box just like you are going on a vacation. Pack it with all necessities and when you go on your journey, place it in your new storage and you'll have everything you need.

A McCormick safe is perfect for this.
 
I agree with everything Oleg said, especially:
Oleg said:
Given the inconvenience and/or cost of the first three options, I will almost certainly choose the fourth, and simply not bother going to Rocktropia.

But there's a potential positive for RT in the inverse: People who think of Rocktropia as 'home' might not bother going to Calypso. :D

Since Planet Partners are supposed to provide new players, in theory RT will be their 'home'. Since RT and FPC are in direct competition for your decay ND probably wants a core of loyal Rocktropians to supply a steady stream of income, not just the occasional visit for vacations.

Of course, this relies on RT growing into it's own community with dedicated miners, crafters, hunters, event coordinators, ect. The chances of this..... I don't know. :laugh:
 
TLDR;

  • Remove ANY fees associated with avatar location changes in the game
  • Make storage universal.
 
Thanks for the comments so far, I will counter-comment on a few :)

Well that might be part of the plan? :dunno:

If part of the plan is to restrict freedom of travel (NB this is not the same thing as free travel), then it's a stupid plan and the entire planets vision is flawed.

Totally agree. I also save all my stackables and use many for crafting or until they are a big enough stack to sell with MU.

We need universal storage and it needs to hold more items. Especially if the new planets have unique items/materials of their own.

Yeah bigger storage would be nice too. I could use an extra 100 spaces even if Rocktropia didn't exist.

No, it's not essential. You are the property of Planet Calypso now. They do not want you leaving without a cost.

If you leave their planet then you are not paying Marco's salary and FPCs overhead anymore.

You must adequately prepare for a journey. Get a large storage box just like you are going on a vacation. Pack it with all necessities and when you go on your journey, place it in your new storage and you'll have everything you need.

A McCormick safe is perfect for this.

It's not essential to me. But it is essential to the success of the planets, because most people just won't be bothered with the inconvenience of travelling.

I know I could load up a McCormick safe, but it's still an inconvenience, plus they cost around 1k PED which is an expense I can do without (and likely to increase if everyone follows your advice :)), so I still choose the option of not travelling.

As above, if the intention is to restrict freedom of movement, the vision is flawed. Remember that FPC didn't design this system, MA did.

But there's a potential positive for RT in the inverse: People who think of Rocktropia as 'home' might not bother going to Calypso. :D

Limiting the customer base is not a positive, whichever way you look at it.
 
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I think you all just want your cake and eat it to so to speak. You can't have everything handed to you pick a planet to make home and stay there. As new players come they will be collecting things and need to sell them on RT there is no need for them to have to compete with old established players from Calypso. IMO
 
Having separate storage on different planets offers some good business opportunities.

Image if you can access from your vacation place all your stuff from home, then all the business around that place would die. You could just fill up your fridge with cheap food/drinks and take it from there, being at 1k miles away from it.
 
No, it's not essential. You are the property of Planet Calypso now. They do not want you leaving without a cost.

If you leave their planet then you are not paying Marco's salary and FPCs overhead anymore.

You must adequately prepare for a journey. Get a large storage box just like you are going on a vacation. Pack it with all necessities and when you go on your journey, place it in your new storage and you'll have everything you need.

A McCormick safe is perfect for this.

Yes, i agree with that.

I really doubt MA wants to kill the auction transport fees...
 
i haven't read the whole thing but i agree with the universal storage
i've been back to calypso from rocktropia this week-end and realized that i forgot to cleanup the rocktropia storage before leaving, was around 60ped items
so yeah universal storage for the win ! ;)
 
Having separate storage on different planets offers some good business opportunities.

Image if you can access from your vacation place all your stuff from home, then all the business around that place would die. You could just fill up your fridge with cheap food/drinks and take it from there, being at 1k miles away from it.

Fortunately, in video games, you can change/fix the design and/or code to solve these kinds of problems. :rolleyes:
 
I think you all just want your cake and eat it to so to speak. You can't have everything handed to you pick a planet to make home and stay there. As new players come they will be collecting things and need to sell them on RT there is no need for them to have to compete with old established players from Calypso. IMO

And who are these sellers going to be selling to? More people makes the market stronger, not weaker.

Having separate storage on different planets offers some good business opportunities.

Image if you can access from your vacation place all your stuff from home, then all the business around that place would die. You could just fill up your fridge with cheap food/drinks and take it from there, being at 1k miles away from it.

In real life I dont need to do that, because the stuff I need is (usually) easily available at my destination. In Rocktropia this is not the case. I am forced to take the things I need with me.

Yes, i agree with that.

I really doubt MA wants to kill the auction transport fees...

I'm not asking them to remove the auction transport fees. Part of the point is that with universal storage that won't be necessary.
 
I think you all just want your cake and eat it to so to speak. You can't have everything handed to you pick a planet to make home and stay there. As new players come they will be collecting things and need to sell them on RT there is no need for them to have to compete with old established players from Calypso. IMO

Why yes, I do want my cake and be able to eat it too, thank you very much.

Until we get a developer from MA to come on here and tell us why its not technically possible to have universal storage and free avatar location changes I'm going to assume its just a poor design decisions on MAs part.

Guess what, design decisions can be changed if they don't make sense.

In my, and others opinion they did not make good design decisions with these aspects and we are lobbying for change. Guess what, sometimes they listen!

I'll never understand why people just want to accept and defend the status quo when it makes no sense to do so. Especially this early in this early phase of the release. They themselves have said this is "beta" If so, this is the time for making changes. Not to say they couldn't be made later, but this is the time.
 
I can see why it's asked for, but also...

There is nothing stopping you picking absolutely everything essential up from storage, walking to the relevant TP, TPing to another planet, and dumping it all back into storage.

OK, so you will walk slowly weighting 35 tonnes, but if you plan an extended stay on the other planet, do you not think the 40 minute stagger to the TP worth it?

Ok so you may have 1500 items, but of them how many do you really need?

Chairs, tables, and other decorations can be left behind, as can multiple suits of clothing, fruit, dung, one stone of this or that ore, duplicate blue-prints, estate deeds, and a whole host if items that to be honest go into storage never to emerge again. :D

Who can really say that the 500 item limit on an Avi's personal inventory is too small to carry what you use on a Month to month basis?
 
I can see why it's asked for, but also...

There is nothing stopping you picking absolutely everything essential up from storage, walking to the relevant TP, TPing to another planet, and dumping it all back into storage.

Yes, I could do that. But it's a complete pain in the arse to do it, and it adds nothing to the EU experience except inconvenience and frustration - and lag I suppose, so it's better for everyone if I don't have to :)

All it does is waste my time. So what is the point?
 
There is nothing stopping you picking absolutely everything essential up from storage, walking to the relevant TP, TPing to another planet, and dumping it all back into storage.

Yes, there is something stopping me, the fact that I'm not going to do it because its a stupid design.

OK, so you will walk slowly weighting 35 tonnes, but if you plan an extended stay on the other planet, do you not think the 40 minute stagger to the TP worth it?

No. Its not worth it.

Ok so you may have 1500 items, but of them how many do you really need?

It wouldn't matter how many if you had access to them all with universal storage.
 
This is just one of the many reasons that I have not yet gone to "The Rock".

and probably never will.
 
This is like asking for an auction on CP, RT, SEE etcetcetc that has no transport fees.

Convenient, and it means you never have to go back to the 'good' planet again. I think planet competition for your peds is a good thing. A magic storage would destroy this competition.
 
I agree. Personally, I'd much rather have universal storage. I just don't see it happening.
Oleg said:
All it does is waste my time. So what is the point?
Unfortunately MindArk seems to see the Planet Partners (Rocktropia and FPC) as their only customers, with the actual players as customers of the individual Planet Partners. This is not a good things for the long term health of the Entropia Universe as a whole, but understanding MA's motives explains some things.

Oleg said:
Limiting the customer base is not a positive, whichever way you look at it.
Standing alone, limiting the customer base is not positive. But, when combined with a competitive advantage the barrier to change can have a net positive effect for the individual planets.

You are a perfect example. FPC has some competitive advantages: They have a very established player-base / economy, your friends are here, and there's less armor decay. Because of the barrier to change (moving hassles and TP fee) you (and me :laugh:) will stay on Calypso. This "limiting the customer base" helps FPC. (not necessarily MindArk or players)

In theory, it could also help Rocktropia- if RT developed their own competitive advantages. They could pay to have weekly live concerts and have real-world musical 'stars' interact with the players regularly, ect. This might draw a crowd of people who 'live' on Rocktropia. Because of the cost (both effort and PED) to do things on Calypso these people are more likely hunt and mine on Rocktropia. (and pay higher armor decay)
In effect Rocktopia could have a smaller, but more profitable, player-base.
 
This is like asking for an auction on CP, RT, SEE etcetcetc that has no transport fees.

No, its not the same. But now that you brought it up, please add removing auction transport fees to the list of things to remove. :laugh:

Convenient, and it means you never have to go back to the 'good' planet again.

Making things easier and cheaper for avatars to move around increases traffic/income for those that provide the best content, artificial restrictions just piss people off and turns them off to playing at all.

I think planet competition for your peds is a good thing.

Agreed. Let them compete on the basis of the content they produce.

A magic storage would destroy this competition
Please explain how you think a universal storage system would destroy competition. Access to storage has been a part of the game for a long time, unless its technically not possible to create universal storage, which nobody has verified, then you should be able to access your storage wherever you go in the game.
 
No, its not the same. But now that you brought it up, please add removing auction transport fees to the list of things to remove. :laugh:



Making things easier and cheaper for avatars to move around increases traffic/income for those that provide the best content, artificial restrictions just piss people off and turns them off to playing at all.



Agreed. Let them compete on the basis of the content they produce.

Please explain how you think a universal storage system would destroy competition. Access to storage has been a part of the game for a long time, unless its technically not possible to create universal storage, which nobody has verified, then you should be able to access your storage wherever you go in the game.

If you could sell your stuff @ the same rate at RT, and never had to come back to calypso, you wouldn't even bother asking these questions. You may as well plead MA to remove transport fees, or just say FUCK YOU to all the hangar owners.
 
If you could sell your stuff @ the same rate at RT, and never had to come back to calypso, you wouldn't even bother asking these questions. You may as well plead MA to remove transport fees, or just say FUCK YOU to all the hangar owners.

If I could spend time on Rocktropia or other planets more conveniently, I would travel more in general. I would pay teleport/pilot fees and auction transport fees more often.

How often does anyone pay an auction transport fee nowadays? I don't think I ever have.

EDIT: Actually I did once by mistake :D
 
If you could sell your stuff @ the same rate at RT, and never had to come back to calypso, you wouldn't even bother asking these questions. You may as well plead MA to remove transport fees, or just say FUCK YOU to all the hangar owners.

Assuming they had anything to sell at all. Ya, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Nor do I have a problem with removing any kind of transport fees which I think they should do. Nor do I have a problem with MA removing hangers as a means of moving my avatar around the game, because its been a failed concept from the beginning.

Sorry for hanger owners who would loose any money on their "investment" , but nobody forced them to buy into a failed concept.
 
nope. it never stopped CP or CND surviving, and they had no storage at all.

seperate storage is about the only thing to create the illusion you are actually on a different planet and havent just TP'd to another zone. its not in the planets interest to have people simply hopping from planet to planet, the business model breaks down.

what is really essential to the survival of new planets is interesting content and marketing to draw in new player base. if they cant do that, then why should the player base care much?
 
RT will fail when there is no one to sell your loot to up there and no decent unique loots to warant the transport fee... both CP and CND have decent reasons for going.

RT needs unique lootage or cheaper fee to get there and back to make camping it worthwhile..

tyvm

been up there since day 1, wanted to stay longer but had to sell my loot :(
 
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