Universal storage is essential to the survival of new planets. Discuss

[Oleg]

nope. it never stopped CP or CND surviving, and they had no storage at all.

But there's a big difference in scale, which will only increase as the planets expand. That's why I excluded CP and CND in my original post.

I'm not particularly against the idea of including CP and CND, but I don't think separate storage is a big problem in that context. With more substantial areas I believe it will be.

 

[GoNi]

No to universal storage

Rocktropia and all upcoming planets are far away from Calypso, therefor all good need to be transported to these planets, what opens some chances for merchants and traders.

I don´t like the global storage at Calypso, because this disables a lot of options an RPG (virtual life) should offer.

No tranportations, no local markets with different prices, no real market.

Everything is accessible from everywhere on the planet, not only auction is global its also the storages! Thats absolutely unlogical!

No need for shops, no need for transporters (vehicles or tamed mules).

EU could be that much more of an real economy if global storage gets removed.

We had 3 markets so far: Calypso planet side, CND and CP
Now we got some more markets! With every planet opens another market and thats really good!

Don´t kill all the nice options for real economy development (trade and transportation) with a universal storage!

Sooner or later some traders will be available at Rocktropia and all other planets, and pilots will be needed to transport goods between the planets (beside passangers).

There are traders at CND buying ores and enmatter beside other goods and transport that down to the planet where it could get sold for a little profit (although trader has to pay the transportation).

Don´t know how far trade has grown at CP (never been there so far!).

Its just a matter of time when all this gets balanced out.

And think of the shops!
Surely there will shops open at other planets, sooner or later. That could become profitable for the investors as long there is no universal storage.

Even the shops at Calypso may start to become useful, if some goods from other planets (not available at Calypso) will be sold here.

BTW, normally every planet should have its own seperated auction, too!

It doesn´t make any sence that I can instandly buy items from another planet that might be lightyears away

Think about it!

 

[PopFuzz]

I think the biggest issue here is more the time then the transport fee. No one likes to pay the 40 peds, but that is a small issue compared to the hour of sorting through your storage deciding what to bring and hoping you bring everything you could possibly need.

A solution id like to see is a Planetary travel suitcase, one that has the same storage space as your normal storage. With the suitcase id like a 1 click button option that lets you load your entire inventory into it as well as an unload button. To keep from competing with container sellers the suitcase cannot be directly accessed and only used for planetary travel. The suitcase would also only be allowed to be placed into storage when its empty to prevent people from using it as extra storage. I also think for the convenience factor an additional 10 ped fee to bring it with you on a teleport to another planet would be acceptable.

I think the travel suitcase would be a good balance between protecting the economy, keeping competition between planets strong so we all benefit from the great content but also makes it easier for us to travel between planets with all our gear and resources.

 

[Thorn]

Though it would be great for us players I don`t ever see them making a universal storage for a few reasons. First it would make it too easy to move to another planet and not pay the transport fee. It wiould also take away some business from hangar owners once spaceships come back. And if space pirates ever come to fruition it will take away the risk for players. It could also hamper markets from forming as much or as fast on other planets. I`m sure they want to let them develop their own markets as much as possible in hopes that they become as robust as Calypso. I could probably think of more reasons why MA would`nt want them but am in a bit of a hurry atm.

 

[mastermesh]

hmm...

MA was aware of the need for universal storage BEFORE the new planet showed up... and prepared the citizens of the planet by supplying all estate owners with resettlement boxes that have 100 item slots each. Prices on those containers has dropped significantly since vu 10... so stop whining, go buy a few boxes, stick your stuff in them, and just pack them with you to your new planet of choice - and stick them in to the storage unit there so you are not overweight. Just remember to pack the luggage cases with you before you move to another planet.

It could be said that by complaining about no universal storage, you are possibly hurting the real cash economy because there are some crafters whose entire purpose in game, at least part of the time, may be to just craft boxes?...

MA gave us lots of free storage with all the different storage units on various planets... use that to your advantage and learn to use the system instead of complaining about it.

If you want to mine on CND mainly, put your mining gear and ores there. If you want to mainly hunt on CP, put heavy armor over there. If you want to use little tokens to pay for not-so-free speech on Rocktopia, head on over there and use the storage unit for that...

The separate storage units is actually a good thing in many ways. It's a "feature" not a "bug" or anything like that. Utilize this feature to the best of your advantage.

People used to always complain about no storage on CND. That problem is now fixed by MA with the separate storage units and people still find stuff to complain about. That gets fixed in the form of resettlement containers and people still whine...

 

[Oleg]

No to universal storage
<snip>

If EU was as inconvenient as you want it to be, I think I'd have left years ago

You talk a lot about things balancing out in time, things happening sooner or later... things need to happen quicker than that for the planets to succeed. If Rocktropia continues with 1% of the player base while 99% are on Calypso, it will die before it has the chance to develop.

I think the biggest issue here is more the time then the transport fee. No one likes to pay the 40 peds, but that is a small issue compared to the hour of sorting through your storage deciding what to bring and hoping you bring everything you could possibly need.

A solution id like to see is a Planetary travel suitcase, one that has the same storage space as your normal storage. With the suitcase id like a 1 click button option that lets you load your entire inventory into it as well as an unload button. To keep from competing with container sellers the suitcase cannot be directly accessed and only used for planetary travel. The suitcase would also only be allowed to be placed into storage when its empty to prevent people from using it as extra storage. I also think for the convenience factor an additional 10 ped fee to bring it with you on a teleport to another planet would be acceptable.

I think the travel suitcase would be a good balance between protecting the economy, keeping competition between planets strong so we all benefit from the great content but also makes it easier for us to travel between planets with all our gear and resources.

That would be a possible solution too, yes.

The key thing for me here would be to keep my items in the places I put them, I don't want to have to rearrange my storage again every time I move stuff in my suitcase.

Though it would be great for us players I don`t ever see them making a universal storage for a few reasons. First it would make it too easy to move to another planet and not pay the transport fee. It wiould also take away some business from hangar owners once spaceships come back. And if space pirates ever come to fruition it will take away the risk for players. It could also hamper markets from forming as much or as fast on other planets. I`m sure they want to let them develop their own markets as much as possible in hopes that they become as robust as Calypso. I could probably think of more reasons why MA would`nt want them but am in a bit of a hurry atm.

But I believe universal storage would make more people travel. Income for pilots would increase. Most people are not going to go to Rocktropia for a day, like they might at CP. They will go for a longer stay, or not at all.

 

[Oleg]

MA was aware of the need for universal storage BEFORE the new planet showed up... and prepared the citizens of the planet by supplying all estate owners with resettlement boxes that have 100 item slots each. Prices on those containers has dropped significantly since vu 10... so stop whining, go buy a few boxes, stick your stuff in them, and just pack them with you to your new planet of choice - and stick them in to the storage unit there so you are not overweight. Just remember to pack the luggage cases with you before you move to another planet.

Nope, takes too long. I prefer to not go at all. All I want is to not waste time.

It could be said that by complaining about no universal storage, you are hurting the economy because there are some crafters whose entire purpose in game may be to just craft boxes?...

Well firstly I already buy boxes regularly. Secondly I'm pretty sure there's no-one whose sole purpose is to craft boxes. And if you don't want to damage the box-crafting market, why are you so enthusiastic about the resettlement containers? Silly argument imo.

 

[steffel]

small stacks in each planet's storage also reduce economy's drive since less stuff get' cycled while more sits around waiting for being collecvted when the avatar visits next.

universal storage however won't come for free. maybe a fee for accessing storage over planets might come with universal storage.

 

[aridash]

But there's a big difference in scale, which will only increase as the planets expand. That's why I excluded CP and CND in my original post.

I'm not particularly against the idea of including CP and CND, but I don't think separate storage is a big problem in that context. With more substantial areas I believe it will be.

scale is important. a whole planet should be able to be self sustaining, with enough local users of ore/matter, materials, looted weapons, BPs, etc to create a contained economy. local content in other words. the very fact CP and CND maintained a regular usage when you had to pay transport/pilot fees demonstrates how common storage isnt an issue if you get to a certain population or create the right content to create traffic. CND proves you do not need shared storage for a planet to survive.

and common strorage kills a single stroke any possiblity of interplanet trade as a profession. that might not work out anyway, but its better to create the potential then change if necessary.

 

[JohnCapital]

Skipping the other issues folks are trying to sneak in here:

I can see the pros and cons of both sides of whether or not storage should be universal.

Universal storage would of course be a convenience. However, I have to believe the reasons for separating it are both technical and intended by MA (And I am correct in saying MA is the reason behind global-based storage. FPC/RT had no say in it, I'm betting.)

In short, I have nothing useful to add.

 

[Svenn]

It depends on how they want planets to function. If they want players to hop between planets on a regular basis (which, judging by the 40PED fee they do not) then yes, universal storage would be necessary.

However, it seems like they want to set it up so that you spend long periods of time on a planet, in which case it's much like in real life where you pack up what you need for a trip and head out for an extended period of time. In this case Universal storage is a convenience, but not necessary to make it work.

 

[burnsey]

If EU was as inconvenient as you want it to be, I think I'd have left years ago

You talk a lot about things balancing out in time, things happening sooner or later... things need to happen quicker than that for the planets to succeed. If Rocktropia continues with 1% of the player base while 99% are on Calypso, it will die before it has the chance to develop.

You are still under the misconception that Rocktopia is made for calypsians. It is not. Rocktropia as a planet (and how other planets are designed), will have to stand on it's own and not be there just to steal customers away from FPC.

Calypso's base can travel for a fee and stay if they wish but they are not meant to be Rocktropia's base.

 

[Nihilist]

i hate to disagree with you oleg.. i just hate it.. but i'm all for the segregated storage on separate planets and locations.

only thing i'm against is the very high transport/teleport fee's.. i think teleport fee's should be brought down into the realm of reasonable. currently.. they are nowhere close to reasonable.

 

[Oleg]

Universal storage would of course be a convenience. However, I have to believe the reasons for separating it are both technical and intended by MA (And I am correct in saying MA is the reason behind global-based storage. FPC/RT had no say in it, I'm betting.)

I suppose it's possible that ND could have asked for storage to be separate, but it seems unlikely. If he did, I think it's a strange choice.

You are still under the misconception that Rocktopia is made for calypsians. It is not. Rocktropia as a planet (and how other planets are designed), will have to stand on it's own and not be there just to steal customers away from FPC.

Calypso's base can travel for a fee and stay if they wish but they are not meant to be Rocktropia's base.

Isn't sharing (not stealing) customers supposed to part of the point of the planets?

Of course new planets are also supposed to bring in new people, but I don't think the intention is for them to rely primarily on those people for the long-term. If it is, then I think the new planets will fail, and again I'd have to say that if that is part of MA's vision, then the vision is flawed.

Sadly it would not surprise me at all if it turned out that MA's vision was indeed flawed

i hate to disagree with you oleg.. i just hate it.. but i'm all for the segregated storage on separate planets and locations.

only thing i'm against is the very high transport/teleport fee's.. i think teleport fee's should be brought down into the realm of reasonable. currently.. they are nowhere close to reasonable.

I don't like paying fees - who does? But I would be much happier paying the fees if I had the convenience of universal storage. Wouldn't you?

 

[aridash]

Isn't sharing (not stealing) customers supposed to part of the point of the planets?

not really, at least from MAs point of view who get half the revenue where ever you go. for the planet there is little point to attracting in players if they move onto another planet. its the model flawed? we'll see, but thats the model and it works elsewhere (usually known as white boxing).

 

[JohnCapital]

I suppose it's possible that ND could have asked for storage to be separate, but it seems unlikely. If he did, I think it's a strange choice.

I'm quite certain it wasn't ND. Look at Calypso, CND, CP, RT. All have separate storage (and the other travel fees mentioned) and you can expect every planet to have the same thing. This was clearly an MA level decision.

I suspect it's a combo of technical issues, but also an attempt to cull inter-planetary competition. (Planet X makes a feature everyone loves. Planet Y wants it too, to pull it's players back. You can see the problem this will cause for MA, who's stuck in the middle.)

 

[Mac]

I don't like paying fees - who does? But I would be much happier paying the fees if I had the convenience of universal storage. Wouldn't you?

No. I'm not happy, nor would I be happy paying ANY fee to move my avatar from point a to point b in order to play this game.

You mean you aren't already paying enough to play this game that you would be happy to pay any fee to play?

 

[Xen]

No to universal storage

Rocktropia and all upcoming planets are far away from Calypso, therefor all good need to be transported to these planets, what opens some chances for merchants and traders.

I don´t like the global storage at Calypso, because this disables a lot of options an RPG (virtual life) should offer.

No tranportations, no local markets with different prices, no real market.

Everything is accessible from everywhere on the planet, not only auction is global its also the storages! Thats absolutely unlogical!

No need for shops, no need for transporters (vehicles or tamed mules).

EU could be that much more of an real economy if global storage gets removed.

We had 3 markets so far: Calypso planet side, CND and CP
Now we got some more markets! With every planet opens another market and thats really good!

Don´t kill all the nice options for real economy development (trade and transportation) with a universal storage!

Sooner or later some traders will be available at Rocktropia and all other planets, and pilots will be needed to transport goods between the planets (beside passangers).

There are traders at CND buying ores and enmatter beside other goods and transport that down to the planet where it could get sold for a little profit (although trader has to pay the transportation).

Don´t know how far trade has grown at CP (never been there so far!).

Its just a matter of time when all this gets balanced out.

And think of the shops!
Surely there will shops open at other planets, sooner or later. That could become profitable for the investors as long there is no universal storage.

Even the shops at Calypso may start to become useful, if some goods from other planets (not available at Calypso) will be sold here.

BTW, normally every planet should have its own seperated auction, too!

It doesn´t make any sence that I can instandly buy items from another planet that might be lightyears away

Think about it!

Why does MA need to support traders, let alone the players be interested in supporting them, when they don't add a damn thing to the game? All the traders could disappear right now and MA would lose nothing. Traders just suck up bandwidth and add an extra layer of cost. About the only good thing a trader does is buy up small quantities of stuff from low budget newbies so they at least get some miniscule markup. MA does not need to create opportunities for traders.

 

[Mac]

I suspect it's a combo of technical issues, but also an attempt to cull inter-planetary competition. (Planet X makes a feature everyone loves. Planet Y wants it too, to pull it's players back. You can see the problem this will cause for MA, who's stuck in the middle.)

I'm interested to hear from a developer of this system what the technical issue is that would prevent there from being a universal storage system.

Planet x y and z know before they sign the contract and begin development that they will need to compete for customers based on their ability to create interesting engaging content that the players will be happy to pay for. Artificial controls to limit a players ability to choose where they will spend their money will just piss the players off and most likely eventually chase them away.

 

[Oleg]

No. I'm not happy, nor would I be happy paying ANY fee to move my avatar from point a to point b in order to play this game.

You mean you aren't already paying enough to play this game that you would be happy to pay any fee to play?

I didn't say happy, I said happier.

Clearly paying 80 PED to stay for a day is worse value than paying 80 PED to stay for a month.

Going off-topic though, I didn't make this thread just so people could have another rant about travel costs.

 

[mastermesh]

Why does MA need to support traders, let alone the players be interested in supporting them, when they don't add a damn thing to the game?

Have you ever sold anything in your entire virtual life? If so, YOU are a trader! Welcome to the REAL CASH ECONOMY - something that could not survive without traders.

 

[Xen]

I'm interested to hear from a developer of this system what the technical issue is that would prevent there from being a universal storage system.

There are none. MA clearly wants the storages to be separate.

And they clearly want to either:

a) discourage frequent travel between planets

or

b) expect people will pay exorbitant travel fees without caring.

Bad strategy imo. Entropia Universe as a whole would be much more fun with free travel (and the accompanying universal storage).

 

[Xen]

Have you ever sold anything in your entire virtual life? If so, YOU are a trader! Welcome to the REAL CASH ECONOMY - something that could not survive without traders.

Sure, but I also hunt, mine and craft. You know, stuff that MA makes money from.

 

[Miles]

No

It's not about you (or me). It's about planets being different virtual places. When you go to RT, you are leaving FPC. You are leaving not just the server(s), but the story, the mobs and places, the whole FPC experience, behind. You are going to the RT story/concept, the RT mobs and places, the RT experience.

The one thing new planets are not meant to be are extensions of Calypso. They are meant to be discreet parts of the universe, alongside Calypso.

For the partners to be able to develop their own content, story, and experience, they need some virtual separation from each other. Storage is one of those separators, travel costs are another.

The technical aspects of this are irrelevant, it has to with protecting the EU concept of independently developed planets co-existing in the same virtual universe.




Miles

 

[Wody]

Universal storage? I'm betting it would take about 0.000283 seconds after it is implemented untill people start complaining how they have about 3.048 items they got from all the planets and can't store it anymore since the storage only has 500 or even 1.000

 

[xX Gently Xx]

It's not about you (or me). It's about planets being different virtual places. When you go to RT, you are leaving FPC. You are leaving not just the server(s), but the story, the mobs and places, the whole FPC experience, behind. You are going to the RT story/concept, the RT mobs and places, the RT experience.

The one thing new planets are not meant to be are extensions of Calypso. They are meant to be discreet parts of the universe, alongside Calypso.

For the partners to be able to develop their own content, story, and experience, they need some virtual separation from each other. Storage is one of those separators, travel costs are another.

The technical aspects of this are irrelevant, it has to with protecting the EU concept of independently developed planets co-existing in the same virtual universe.




Miles

very good point, this is how I see it working too

 

[Few Scars]

Yes

I agree, it is quite stupid having separate storage places, it should be universal!

 

[Oleg]

It's not about you (or me). It's about planets being different virtual places. When you go to RT, you are leaving FPC. You are leaving not just the server(s), but the story, the mobs and places, the whole FPC experience, behind. You are going to the RT story/concept, the RT mobs and places, the RT experience.

The one thing new planets are not meant to be are extensions of Calypso. They are meant to be discreet parts of the universe, alongside Calypso.

For the partners to be able to develop their own content, story, and experience, they need some virtual separation from each other. Storage is one of those separators, travel costs are another.

The technical aspects of this are irrelevant, it has to with protecting the EU concept of independently developed planets co-existing in the same virtual universe.




Miles

If that's true, then surely I shouldn't be able to transport any of my items at all.

As some people have pointed out, it's perfectly possible to take every single item I own to Rocktropia. It's just very time-consuming to do so. So this separation you're talking about is not really separation at all.

 

[Chrome]

For the partners to be able to develop their own content, story, and experience, they need some virtual separation from each other. Storage is one of those separators, travel costs are another.

If that's true, then surely I shouldn't be able to transport any of my items at all.

As some people have pointed out, it's perfectly possible to take every single item I own to...

This brings up an interesting question, and I stopped Oleg's quote before the word "ROCKtropia"...

Insert "new planet" there instead.

Now, there has been discussion about planets where certain items, like futuristic weapons, won't work, correct?

Is there going to be some sort of "inventory analysis" gate program that will prevent someone from loading up everything they own and carting it to "Planet Prehistoric"? As in, you won't even be able to travel there with those items in your inventory at all? Or will you be able to travel with them, just not use them once you arrive?

 

[Mac]

yadda yadda yadda

The fact that its technically possible is exactly the reason this doesn't make sense. Tell me why its not technically possible and I'll listen. Tell me about "the story" blah blah blah and its just lolroleplay shenanigans. All that role play crap went out the window when they allowed a planet with pink dragons and mobs with NEVERDIE's egotistical bs plastered all over them into the game. Screw the role play bs imo, just give me a convenient free way to shoot mobs for skills and loot jackpots. Click the free tp change avatar locations, go to storage , get crap, go shoot stuff and get skills and a jackpot, that's all I care about now, I don't want to hear about the "whole FPC universe and experience".