Universal storage is essential to the survival of new planets. Discuss

[TimUnleashed]

I think its important for the success of the game or I wouldn't bother expressing my opinion and I'm not going to stop looking at it from a players perspective because its the players that pay the bills, not the other way around.

I don't care how much planet x y and z spend to bring their content, if the players don't like the content, or like how it works, or how they are forced to access it, they aren't going to participate and it will fail no matter how many restrictions and controls they put in place.

Keep charging customers new/more fees (transport, auction) every time they turn around and making their buying experience a hassle (storage) and see what happens

Mac while I'm glad there are people looking at it from the players perspective, and that HAS to continue happening, it's not the only necessary perspective.

Yes, we players pay the bills, but that doesn't just mean we should have whatever we want. If all the players wanted free FAPs that doesn't mean it would happen.

The perspective of the people who are in control of expanding this universe, and making sure it succeeds, is also important. When I try to think of it from their perspective, it makes total sense why the whole thing's being set up to strongly motivate all the planets to be fantastic.


I've had a bit more of a think about what you said earlier (when you "fixed" my post for me). While I understand your point, and where you're coming from as a player, it still seems to me that:

• if there was no effort/cost required to change planets, then yes people would move around more freely and change planets for the weekend for a double skill event and that kind of thing - but that's all it would take. Whoever's got the best event wins.
• if there was more effort/cost required to change planets, then every planet would have great events all the time - double skilling occasionally would be one of them I'm sure, but all the planets would be working hard to always have something going on to make you want to stay

So I'm still convinced that it's worth making sure that shifting planets is a significant event.

Back on topic then: I'm a fan of having to pack your bags and move. Making it easy is a short-term fix that would feel good for most of the players, but that would be symbolic of a less-than-pure passion on the part of MA to make the whole universe the best it can be.

 

[Oleg]

According to Entropia Tracker there have been 5 globals on Rocktropia in the last 4 hours.

Does that sound like enough revenue to keep Neverdie Studios in business?

EDIT: My socmates just got one, make it 6 globals

 

[TimUnleashed]

According to Entropia Tracker there have been 5 globals on Rocktropia in the last 4 hours.

Does that sound like enough revenue to keep Neverdie Studios in business?

EDIT: My socmates just got one, make it 6 globals

Gratz on the soc - global.

I doubt the business plan for Rocktropia includes, expects or requires making a profit in the first month. If they still only doing 24 globals a day after 12 months, then yes there's genuine cause for concern.

 

[Oleg]

Gratz on the soc - global.

I doubt the business plan for Rocktropia includes, expects or requires making a profit in the first month. If they still only doing 24 globals a day after 12 months, then yes there's genuine cause for concern.

Agreed, and the medium- to long-term results are of course what will make the difference.

Which is why I believe the new planets need more help from MA in getting things moving by increasing freedom of travel (I remind people again, not free travel) for existing EU participants.

 

[das]

Agreed, and the medium- to long-term results are of course what will make the difference.

Which is why I believe the new planets need more help from MA in getting things moving by increasing freedom of travel (I remind people again, not free travel) for existing EU participants.

IF tp costs would be covered by markup after 5k ped turnover, I wouldn't have a problem paying 80 ped tp fee. If it is to get 4.5k ped tt stuff back..
then it's just another MA ripoff imo.
So what's it's gonna be.. drop items & reduce tp cost like on CP?
Or have an almost empty new planet..

 

[TimUnleashed]

Agreed, and the medium- to long-term results are of course what will make the difference.

Which is why I believe the new planets need more help from MA in getting things moving by increasing freedom of travel (I remind people again, not free travel) for existing EU participants.

Seeing your point, assuming continuing to pay for travel, and focusing on universal storage...

Would universal storage really achieve anything in terms of support for a budding new planet? Isn't it more of a committment for a player (NB the type of player who's happy to pay the fee) to say to themselves, "right I'm going for a decent trip over there, what am I going to pack?" than to simply up and go without having to think about it?

At least if you have to think hard about it, you're likely to try make a real trip of it, which in turn increases the chances you'll stay for a longer period, and perhaps make it your home.

What I think we have already seen is players writing off the 80 ped, popping over, going "bah just another LA, don't like it" and coming home, perhaps without giving it the chance it deserves. If it required more thought and committment to go there, maybe people would plan a decent length trip, go with more ped, with more of a desire to check it out properly, and make a good go of it - which would give the new planet a better chance.

Moving planets needs to be a significant event, and not just financially significant. It should also require a decent amount of thought from the player, so they take it seriously and try to make something significant of it.

That in turn would lead to the best chance of the new planet's economy really being helped.


Making it really easy to go there is all well and good - but when it's really easy to come home again... that's not the stability the new planet partner needs. The new planet partner needs people going over there with a mindset of having a good crack at life on the new planet.

 

[Oleg]

I think that's a good point Tim and is perhaps the most convicing argument in opposition that I've seen yet.

I see what you're saying about the extra commitment making a better customer. But would the (few, in my estimation) people who make the big time commitment outweigh the (many, in my estimation) people who would go there if they didn't have to make the big time commitment?

As a one-to-comparison one you are probably right that the commitment (perhaps most importantly the reverse commitment when wanting to leave) would encourage an individual person to do more and spend more while there, but I expect the difference in numbers would be enough that having many people doing less would be better overall.

It's important to think about more than just total spend too. A larger number of people will strengthen the internal economy to a greater extent than a few people, even if the few spend more than the many. More people means more opportunities to trade, a more active auction and so on.

Taking that thought to its most ridiculous extreme, having only one guy on the planet who spends a million PED a day might be good for the balance sheet but it would make for a rather lacklustre internal market

 

[aia]

Moving planets needs to be a significant event, and not just financially significant. It should also require a decent amount of thought from the player, so they take it seriously and try to make something significant of it.

Maybe I'm odd though.

For me going to Rocktropia *is* "popping over". I got several reasons for why it's like that for me:

My favorite mob, which I spend say 50% on my time on, is on Calypso. It's even in one and only one continent (though in several land areas there).

I don't have top-tier repairable equipement. This means that I will have to choose between a, relatively, mediocre setup with repairable items (ghost, plasma rifle/determination/..., ek-2600) or better (L) items for more fun hunts. On the planet I use (mostly) (L) armor for my day-to-day hunts, for bigger mobs UR-125(L), and HL-11(L)/12(L) if I come over one.
Now the obvious problem is that on Rocktropia, I doubt there is a reasonable chance to acquire the (L) stuff I need. To further complicate it, I use dmg enhancers on my plasma rifle to bring up the DPS a bit, and those I get from auction and shops.
Start to get where my problem is?

For new players, rocktropia isn't beginner-friendly. The mob that's probably is intended for beginners, the "lone wolves", is more or less a menace. (Especially when they come in high density and when even the stalkers are non-looters...) There is no easy beginner level spawn where beginners can sweat, and on the land areas the revival is usually in a village quite a bit from the mob, which makes sweating activies hard. And until there is a critical mass of sweaters, it's probably hard to get easy sweating work as in Neas Place, or find sweat traders and healers who will help the sweaters.

Third thing, if you're talking about "moving", is that I got apartment full with stuff on Calypso. There are currently no apartments on Rocktropia - and when they start to sell, if they follow same pattern as CND they will be sold at a premium price to highest bidder. So, at least as it is now, it's not possible to feel any "emotional attachment" to Rocktropia.

When it comes to "give rocktropia enough time", I guess most players rather quickly will find out which mobs/mining areas that are "ok", which that are for ubers, which mobs that are for gamblers. And again, a player who arrives at Rocktropia with an (L) weapon and an (L) fap, is likely to return when the (L) weapon and fap has worn out, unless the hunter with a big likelyhood has looted an eqvivalent weapon and have same opportunity as on Calypso to get a decent FAP.

As it is right now, I think a totally fresh user who arrives at Rocktropia will have a really hard time.

To help the situation, travel should be easy (and, as I'm a depositor and every PED spent comes from IRL and no ingame profits, free). Free/easy travel will help trading, and it will be more likely that a beginner who arrived at Rocktropia will meet an experienced player who can provide basic help (and to some degree can answer questions even if the old player currently is on calypso - and to return up to Rocktropia if the new player has problems, for instance mob camping a decent mining claim rod and needs assistance).

If it's hard to travel, it will lead to more users - note that i say "users" as in avatars, because oldtime players who just want to look around from time to time, and in case like Rocktropia, maybe just want to experience music and events. In this situations, honest players who go by the book and don't create second avatars will, as usual, have a disadvantage of avatars who can use their wife/brother's avatar to jump between planets for free.

 

[JohnCapital]

Regarding the revival amd mob layout, remember that VU10.0, we all dealt with the same thing. Seems the SOP is to get the base layout public, then make improvements w/ VUs.

However, all those other issues really aren't about the storage at all.

Oleg, out of curiosity, I don't remember you championing this cause so hard when it just affected CP and CND. Why now?

 

[Oleg]

Oleg, out of curiosity, I don't remember you championing this cause so hard when it just affected CP and CND. Why now?

Again it comes down to a difference in scale. CP and CND are small enough that it doesn't matter so much, and can be sustained on a much lower level of income for the owners compared to the planet developers. Even without any income at all, they could still survive in the sense that they are maintained by FPC as part of Planet Calypso anyway.

New planets make the question much more significant from both the player perspective and developer perspective.

 

[predden]

Yes I agree totally with that we need universal storage.
But we also need universal auction without any transportation fees.
There is no way in hell that the new planets will survive if players have to pay the normal markup + 30-50 ped in some fantasy transportation tax to buy a new weapon. Yes in theory ppl might start to craft things on the new planets. But in reality the regular crafters will stay on calypso and the planet owners and of course in the end the players will have to pay the price for this… as usual MA have only a small hint on what actually goes on in game and they won’t adapt to suit the players wishes, and the result can be seen in the reduction of the player base. Sadly, in the end, this storage/tax issue is just two more nails in the games coffin.

And to all you “but you can’t access your fridge if you are on vacation in RL ether” well the next time you get attacked by a Zombie or a dragon on the OTHER planet you spend your vacation on just stop smoking that shit you’re on.. THIS IS A COMPUTER GAME! In that case we should loose teleporters and never be able to revive, if you die you’re dead. Happy gaming dumbasses.

 

[aia]

However, all those other issues really aren't about the storage at all.

The local/universal storage really no big issue by itself.

It's an inconvenience, because before you leave planet B to go back to planet A, you need to manually empty storage, carry it with you, and then when you arrive at planet A you will need to spend time sort it back in.

If you for a minute think there is no TP-fee: If you when you arrive at planet B find a mob that does 100% acid but your goblin is still an storage in planet A, then you can simply TP back to planet A, get your goblin, and then TP back. And, if there is no TP-fee there is no need for transport costs in auction either. (Again, transport cost in auction was introduced for CND to force miners who wanted to sell their mined resources on the calypso market to buy apartments.)

 

[efx]

If you when you arrive at planet B find a mob that does 100% acid but your goblin is still an storage in planet [A]

Although the poster did not mean it this way, he made a good point. People go to a new planet to explore, and having all their equipment available is really the only way to get the most of this exploration.

Would universal storage really achieve anything in terms of support for a budding new planet? Isn't it more of a committment for a player (NB the type of player who's happy to pay the fee) to say to themselves, "right I'm going for a decent trip over there, what am I going to pack?" than to simply up and go without having to think about it?

Alot of people have said something like this, and superficially it seems to make sense. After all, MA wants to make interplanetary movement a restricted event not done as a casual decision. But a limited storage is NOT a good way to do this, because there is no winner from this arrangement. At least a 40 ped fee will eventually trickle back into the loot. However, limited storage inconveniences the player and makes life a bit more difficult for MA so everyone loses.

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

[...] So give us univeral storage and we can stop worrying about the other factors. Without it, the new planets can not develop, and they will die. When planets start going out of business, potential new partners will lose any interest they had in creating new planets.

at first I would have been 100% with you, Oleg.

You are absolutely correct that [travel fee + separate storage] are:

1. very annoying, frustrating and stifling to participants that want to "check out" a new planet for a week or two, thus reducing not only the quality of the gaming experience but also denying an opportunity to spent more PED as usual.
   For instance, when RockTropia went on line I was ready to use an already bought juicy PaySaveCard for a welcome visit. This factor mentioned made me think of it, until the first screen shots came in & I decided to stay at home - deposited just a fraction and continued my daily routine.
   .
2. a pest for new planet partners that just open their planets. Especially in their beginning, when they don't have an own big player base already, they're dependent of visitors from other planets to not only get some income in the first weeks but "role models", helpers and "starters for the economy" as well, to ease the starting experience of their own newbies.
   NeverDie thus lost the income generated by 1K PED's from me alone that I had ready to burn on his planet. 1K PEDs on card, used over and over until gone, can be quite something, dependent of the results ... From 1 small game participant!

So the combination of [travel fee + separate storage] for new planets doesn't make any sense, it's actually hurting badly. This far I agree.

I then read this thread, found some quite interesting thoughts that more and more got me thinking the "universal storage" wouldn't be this beneficial anymore. There's quite some reasons:

• It would heavily trammel any kind of interplanetary trade that might evolve one day in the future when "Ahhhhh - the new participants ...." might finally have arrived.
  Today there's close to no street trade anymore, due to the decreased number of active participants and the increased size of the world - the two or three of them you'll find at Swamp Camp or at Twins where they desperately try to scam newbies of their Sweat or the first Lyst are nothing compared to the activity that was to be found some years ago ...
  But such trade could, and maybe should, evolve again to support the in game economy, one day in the future, in an interplanetary style now. Hindering it by now already might not be a good idea.
  .
• It would encourage "planet hopping", thus driving the planet partners into an ruinous competition for the participants.
  Such competition is highly appreciated, but it should be balanced to be beneficial and sustaining - nobody of us would like to read headlines like "An Entropia planet went haywire after just 2 months - a new entry in the Guinness book, look for section "most virtual fortune wasted" ...
  .
• It would tear apart quite some of the in game social relations.
  Smaller Soc's might then have 2 members on RockTropia, 3 members left at Calypso, 1 at planet A, 3 at planet B, 2 at planet C - you understand?
  The above mentioned "planet hopping" might be something that might be beneficial to get made difficult.

Now I'm in a dilemma. There's valid reasons asking for an "universal storage", and there's as valid reasons prohibiting it ...

So I thought about, had some days to do so. As usual I started to check "Is there a problem related already?". Yes, there is.

We already have the problem that our storage limits are not reflecting the wildly increased numbers of items we loot anymore. More and more items have been introduced, new enmatters/ ore, new crafted stuff, new weapons & tools, new mob parts, new armors/ armor parts (footsies?), and most devastating, extractors and enhancing/ tiering materials. The sheer number of those you'll receive and have to collect to be able to sell isn't reflected in a bigger amount of stuff we're able to stuff into our storage.

So a change in the storage system is overdue anyways. Marked as "to remember".

What are we wanting to achieve now?

• We want existing participants to be able to satisfy their curiosity whenever a new planets comes on line.
  .
• We want new planets that come on line to support in getting reviewed, and getting a head-start utilizing already active participants.
  .
• We want to put some limits to "planet hopping" - changing a home planet should be something to think about first.
  .
• We want to create/ preserve an opportunity for inter-planetary trade.
  .
• And, as we remember, we want to improve the storage situation.

Now the constructive part starts. Agree, or disagree, I'll now try to solve all our problems ,-)))

• First thing we need is a change in our storage. More place, more numbers of items, and a new section:
  1 tab "Interplanetary Storage".
  This could be to buy, and cost about 100 - 200 PED. And shouldn't hold more but maybe 100 - 200 items that could be easily dragged in as "links" - so for visiting a new planet I could drag in some weapons, some armors - as links, not changing my carefully arranged order in the weapons/ armor tab!!! For a trading journey I'd just delete the links, for more space, without changing the rest of my storage - you understood?
  This would suit visitors as well as traders. It would make the life just more easy.
  .
• Then we need a "head-start" for new planets. Be it:
  • a short "grace period" where travel costs are reduced, or even nullified, and where the storage of this new world would be connected to the participants "home storage", or
  • a certain number of "vouchers" given to a new planet partner to use for marketing, with a living time of maybe 14 days, giving the user free transport to the planet and back, plus automagically adding the contents of it's distant storage to it's current storage after expiring or getting destroyed?
    MA could sell those later, too, to help in case of events, or needed further promotion.
  .
• Additionally, there should be a possibility to "completely move" to another planet.
  With the complete storage. Without the need to load all of it upon your avatar, to crouch to the TP/ hangar, then carefully re-arrange all of your 487 items in the approbate places. 100 - 200 PEDs?
  .
• Mail. Mail. Mail! Finally, mail, please!!!!!!!11111one!!11eleven!
  And global intercom chats - for instance a trade channel. Hey, we're this far in the future, and there's nothing like this?
  I could ask in Twins SC "Anybody interested in a kango mask? 3.51 +1.00?" Joe 'MaskCollector' Insane in IceAge Centre could reply "OK, but I'd just pay TT + MailFee + 0.1, send if you agree" ...
  .
• The travel costs at all should be revisited.
  I could accept the 15 PED I paid for both flights for my one & only CND visit (a friend of mine is master in "getting good prices" ,-) ), but it's just to think of how much the participants are supposed to travel. For instance, how would a travel cost of 80 PED to and back from RockTropia make meaningful trading possible? Could you earn these 80 PED delivering a load of (maybe soon) most needed Pixie & Goblin parts, and would the newbies starting there ever be able to pay the price?

There's a lot of things to think about here, and I guess it not a simple decision. I tried to break down the problems, as well as offering some rough ideas. Plz don't stoneth me if I forgot something ... Just tell me why it wouldn't work, or why you're not implementing it (if you have the MA tag).

Have fun!

 

[aia]

[*] It would tear apart quite some of the in game social relations.
Smaller Soc's might then have 2 members on RockTropia, 3 members left at Calypso, 1 at planet A, 3 at planet B, 2 at planet C - you understand?
The above mentioned "planet hopping" might be something that might be beneficial to get made difficult.

If the travelling between the planets is no problem, then it's no worse than today (consider one socmate at Sweaty Camp, another socmate in Fort Zeus and the third hunting formidon or scips outside Oshiris).

Last week I had the problem of a person who was exploring Rocktropia, and I had tons of Animal Hides I wanted to get rid of. If it wasn't for the 80 ped fee, I could have gone up there myself, then using my TP-chip to get to him whereever he was, then I could have TPd back and we could continue from where we were.
And on the opposite, when I was at Rocktropia, testing mining a few days ago, I got oil. But I wasn't able to sell it as there didn't appear to be any trader (and even if there was, a trader probably don't want to die his capital on low-markup stuff like oil), so I had to TT the oil to continue mining. And then to get back to planet, TT most of my loots to be able to use the TP.

 

[mastermesh]

Last week I had the problem of a person who was exploring Rocktropia, and I had tons of Animal Hides I wanted to get rid of. If it wasn't for the 80 ped fee, I could have gone up there myself, then using my TP-chip to get to him whereever he was, then I could have TPd back and we could continue from where we were.
And on the opposite, when I was at Rocktropia, testing mining a few days ago, I got oil. But I wasn't able to sell it as there didn't appear to be any trader (and even if there was, a trader probably don't want to die his capital on low-markup stuff like oil), so I had to TT the oil to continue mining. And then to get back to planet, TT most of my loots to be able to use the TP.

solution to that - have a shop on each planet you visit.

 

[N00b]

NO NO NO!

I like it the way it is, there have to be barriers to seperate worlds and give EU the position it deserves.

There can't be a vacume, if evrything would be the same it would be like having icecream evry day for dinner. Besides there is no way they would agree and just give up their market position and make it alot more easy for other worlds to compete economic.

Good trade relations between players and a social network between worlds could fix alot without the help of MA, it opens new perspective and opportunity for new players and traders, give the poor some chances.

Also it wouldn't be very realistic ... ...
"Plz zap me that A101, i kno there's 2M lightyears in between, but hey, its free..."

We need a whining meter next to the forum, id say its about under 50% now with the fast development and all te gifts we got, still im dissapointed in our community, most of u are supposed to be adults but i don't notice alot of that...

N00b
~-"Don't ask me. I'm just a N00b"-~

 

[lilac]

We need a whining meter next to the forum, id say its about under 50% now with the fast development and all te gifts we got, still im dissapointed in our community, most of u are supposed to be adults but i don't notice alot of that...

Careful who you're insulting here NOOb,

Like the idea or not, I don't think anyone would doubt that it was meant in good faith and not just a whine thread...

The OP was merely stating that the pain in the butt of getting needed items was an obstacle towards going to Rocktropia...

Others came up with the valid point that planets should get their own player base...

Yet, As it stands now, there's nothing stopping a player from moving the entire contents of their storage from one planet to the next... just time and a bunch of boxes...

Would an "Interplanetary Suitcase" ( kinda a compartmentalized storage box) be a solution?

 

[N00b]

my appologies, pardon my french,

Dont want to see this game destroyed and i might confuse with other more general negative attitude towards the developers. It only makes things worse as im sure the latest changes (gifts) made to the game where also with good intentions.

 

[JayDee]

I thought some of these coming planets had little to do with the content EU has. What would be the point of bringing stuff from EU when planetX isn't compatible with stuff from EU. If every planet uses the same stuff available in EU then whats the point of other planets? Same stuff different planet? Boring! That was my main complaint with my wasted 80PED trip to Rocktropia. Nothing different other than terrain and some music area's that were not being used for anything. Why not just try and get as many people on Calypso and grow it in size? Seems more profitable for MA than having players go elsewhere for partial profit.

I guess I just don't understand were all these rich new players are going to come from to support all these planets.

 

[Nicole]

Just catching up after being off EF most of the day because of the security wotsit.

I think a lot of people should read this:



My thinking is not (directly) about how it affects the players, but how their resulting behaviour has a knock-on effect on the businesses that are running the planets.

I've no idea how many people are employed or contracted by Neverdie Studios, but they're going to need income to cover the costs of those people and their other expenses, and to get that income they need people playing on their planets.

A lot of people commenting in this thread seem to be stuck in thinking about themselves, not the bigger picture, whether they agree with me or not.




Separate storage and therefore more item points surely makes it harder in system terms, due to the bigger database load.

I think storage loading times are primarily a client-side thing, not a server issue. More RAM and a better CPU/GPU are what you need to fix that.

I'm no technical expert so forgive me if I am talking rubbish

All due respect its not the customers job to have to understand any business at depth, but it’s the business responsibility to have to understand their customers and make their business more friendly towards the customer.

You got to remember the customer is king, and is always right!

If I get bad service I don’t return to the place, and I let all my family friends know of it.