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When your average mid tier player tries to do redulite - It goes pretty bad !

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Supajosh

Alpha
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Posts
573
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Josh supajosh the fisrt
Well after 15 years of playing this game i treated myself to my first solid UL gun - A T10 M83 Preditor

Fantastic i thought i can now grind some mayhem without all of that pesky mark up ive been paying for all of these years .

Well boys and girls hereeeee is a story all about , how my ped card go flipped upside down . Id like to take a minute whilst you sit right there , to tell you how mayhem wrecked me and made me real scared !

100k redulite mission

First 50k points were ran on m83 UL + mayhem delta (L) unenahnced + perf ares catagory 04
Seccond 50k points were ran M83 Ul + mayhem delta t10 fully dmg enh + perf ares catagory 06

Total globals 220
Largest global 550 PED
Mayhem tokens looted 8777
Easter boxes looted 1511
Number of instances / Runs 24

Number of profitable Runs JUST ONE +116 ped yay :)
Number of loss runs 23
Number or rare tokens 0
number of exciting loots 0 ( no esi no items no chips , nothing )

Total spend 127,219 PED
Total Loss -14,555 PED
Return % 88.56 %

( The above does exclude any MU from selling the boxes so given there would be 1.5k mu there should i sell them )


Yes i know mayhem is a loss for most to grind the tokens , and yes i dont have the most uber eco setup out there , but hot dam to blow that many peds so quick was hard to see . Please tell me my results are pretty normal so i dont need to cry myself to sleep the next time i visit a TT :ROFLMAO:

Only having one tiny profit run out of 24 is pretty bad going and certainly nothing ive ever experienced in 15 years of game play but this is the first mayhem ive ever taken seriously so, How does this compare to others out there ?
 
Supajosh said:
Well after 15 years of playing this game i treated myself to my first solid UL gun - A T10 M83 Preditor

Total spend 127,219 PED
Total Loss -14,555 PED
Return % 88.56 %

( The above does exclude any MU from selling the boxes so given there would be 1.5k mu there should i sell them )


Yes i know mayhem is a loss for most to grind the tokens , and yes i dont have the most uber eco setup out there , but hot dam to blow that many peds so quick was hard to see . Please tell me my results are pretty normal so i dont need to cry myself to sleep the next time i visit a TT :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

No, this is definetly not normal as longterm return, can happen as a short term result.
There are ups and downs, and this will be for sure a very deep down among all the 130k cycles you will tracking in the future.
 
That TT return is below average, long term, on a larger cycle. What is your robot looter level?

As a sort of consolation, you probably would get another 5k - 6k PED out of the bunny, MTokens, and any output amps you looted.

But still, 88.56%, that's rough. 😔

I suggest grinding higher CATs next Mayhem if possible. Higher than 04 that is, with your weapon setup. You can also go tell me to kick rocks, as doing another -14.5k TT experiment may not sound like much fun!
 
I ran full 100.000 points Redulite mostly in Cat 6 with M83 Predator, all unamped, all unenhanced, just scope and laser sights.
No markup invested on my side, only 100% TT repair costs.

1.702 Easter boxes looted
Maybe ~500 Output amps for 200PED TT looted
2 or 3 Mayhem armor parts (L) for ~500 PED looted
I didn't count the tokens, maybe around the same like you

TT wise I am a little more than 1k down in the red zone.

I sold the bunny for 500 PEDs.
Including Markup for boxes I am pretty much in the green zone again.
 
I just checked my notes, and as I finished the Redulite I had looted:

Easter Boxes: 2,026
MTokens: 9655
Unreal Tokens: 30

My setup was the Ravenger Mini Sweeper V1, Adjusted, TWEN Edition. Using Summer 2020 and XMas 2022. I chewed candy canes most the time and did the entire mission in CAT 07. TT returns on the mission were 96.8%.

I dropped down to CAT 04, 05, 06, and did a little testing for a few days, with worse results. I'm now back in 07 😂. Whether it's coincidence or not, I do not know. But I'm comfortable in 07 and things are going half way decent in there for me.

That sucks your TT return was that rough, I'm sorry 😔 oof.

Results will vary! I have a friend who has a better weapon setup than me, yet managed worse TT returns, with more cycled. So who knows!

Edit: During the redulite mission I did loot two BC-80 Augmented (L)s as well, one was 100tt and the other was 200tt.
 
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Loot is dynamic, always has been. Your privilege has been checked. Sucks about your TT return. Bad runs happen sometimes, and while yours is bad its certainly within the realm of possibility. Hopefully you HOF soon.
 
Your feedback is all very welcomed guys , like I say I've played the game a very long time and know all too well this is how it can go. Its only a little more disappointing since this was my " first try with an UL gun ".

No small investment by anyone's standards and to see that even whilst trying to be sensible to reduce the mu you of (L) you still get kicked In the spuds .


Perhaps it's a little tin foil hat as I know ma has offially stated there is no personal loot pool , but do you more experienced higher cycle players think there is any merit in doing some high level crafting or dropping some fat mining amps for some kind of alternative ped balancing or have I just lost all logic and mayhem has made me truly mad ? Hahha
 
In mayhem you need a good Mix of efficiency dpp and dps

While for me it makes no diference in tt outcome what category i hunt , it makes a diference on tokens and strongboxes , with the weapon you where using i wuld have choosed straight cat 6

But to put my two pecs here : make shure to sell the weapon and go for a higher efficiency, nowdays there are a lot of 70+ efficiency weapons of All kind , fairly cheap

Camo BGH
LB 40 imp
Lp 40 perfected
Kriegerum perfected
Those are weapons you can get in the 40-50k range low tier

The point is : those weapons are good for grinding what ever you do , mayhem or outside of mayhem

So for example i think you did spend 20-25k on your weapon atleast,when i add the loss of 14k you culd have bought
A camo bgh for example

This wont guarantee you profit, but it will reduce your costs to play for shure, and with a little smart play you get into the greens
 
just my 2 cents
opportunity vs cost.
lowest HP/level ratio is cat 1.
highest number of loot events per mission is cat 1
i posted already my resutls in ano9ther thread.
i killed in same 3.3 DPP as you do, just fractional eff, and saved my ass.
we are not at college... Bigger is not better.... STEADIER is...
lower cat remove LS amp, put a imp 105 on that .
you will probably get soon 10k rebalancing hof (yes yes there is no personal loot pool - LOL - )
 
Supajosh said:
Perhaps it's a little tin foil hat as I know ma has offially stated there is no personal loot pool , but do you more experienced higher cycle players think there is any merit in doing some high level crafting or dropping some fat mining amps for some kind of alternative ped balancing or have I just lost all logic and mayhem has made me truly mad ?
Click to expand...

I will leave you a link here with mostly reasonable replies.

Just keep shooting! Just keep shooting?

Hello! I come here seeking guidance from the hunters who cycle a decent amount. You see, I have run into an issue, like many others I am sure. I have over the past 2100 loots enjoyed a return rate of 77.95%. This has been distributed as can be seen in the image below. each data point is 100...
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com

As can be seen in the chart in post #50 it took me over 37000 loot to cross over the 90% return mark.

I am not a "higher cycle player", but I see no merit to doing gambling activities in order to try to recoup what was lost. What I would suggest is to just go after MU. Keep track of TT returns but try to distance yourself emotionally from the number. Your returns will improve if you give them the opportunity to. As long as you can keep extracting MU you should do that in my opinion.

For reference, the dataset from which the results in that other thread come from is now sitting at 98.99% return over 1.3 million cycle.
 
I can aslo share my results for mayhem. I did redulite, just fisnished, most of the time i was in cat6 and I had max glob o 495p. T3 LP-40 with 88,9% eff +49 looter. 130526,99p cycled and I had back 121537,9 peds, 93,11% tt. Got 1500 boxes. Way worse than I expected but I had similar results on other mayhems too, mindark dont like me at all. This also works opposite way thats why I dont depo anymore for those greedy ****.
 
Iceman2003 said:
I can aslo share my results for mayhem. I did redulite, just fisnished, most of the time i was in cat6 and I had max glob o 495p. T3 LP-40 with 88,9% eff +49 looter. 130526,99p cycled and I had back 121537,9 peds, 93,11% tt. Got 1500 boxes. Way worse than I expected but I had similar results on other mayhems too, mindark dont like me at all. This also works opposite way thats why I dont depo anymore for those greedy ****.
Click to expand...
Interesting to see how even with a perfected gun and way higher eff that whilst it did make some positive difference vs my results. Still 5 % short of what would be preferential.

I guess my real question to the high cycle hunters is ...


Are mayhem results just worse than any given 150k ped cycle are we are all paying for the privilege of mayhem tokens ?

Or

Has the cycle size now increased over the years so high that 130 -150k ped results mission cycle just isn't enough ammo shot to make things balance out longer term ?

The most worrying stat for me from my runs is that 23 of the 24 runs were all negative . Historically over the many years I've played I don't think I've ever seen this pattern before and when profit is made on a hunt usually its a little larger to help bring the average back in to line . Only ever being +116 ped after a 6k ped run of a 130k cycle is pretty wild .

Hummm ?
 
What's your robot looter level?

I was about 91% for the first 100k cycled, but I'm sitting at around 96% TT now after another 100k. That's with lvl 68 robot looter and 90% efficiency. Two largest loots were ~600 and ~990 peds. (Edit: just realized I hit a ~2k pedder on defense warlock last night but wasn't really counting that because wasn't in annih...)

My guess is it is a combination of volatility, low robot looter, and low efficiency.
 
So I wrote these up (with help from others!), might be of interest:

FYI: - How Loot Returns Work as Function of Looter Level and Efficiency, Based on Actual Data, as of March 3rd, 2022

Update 20220911: I have measured the effect on TT at three additional looter level points, using my method of extracting the lowest multiplier and with the reaper blade. The observed trend is still the same. I have placed the data at the end of this point along with a brief description. A...
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com

FYI: - Estimating time to expected value with some math... (handy shaded table included)

Hi everyone. After the many times I've seen the comment "Keep Shooting" or "I can't believe my returns are so bad" or "Look I have 100%+ TT return after 2000 kills so efficiency/looter doesn't matter and I hacked the system", I thought it was time to produce some quantitative data on evaluating...
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com
 
Supajosh said:
Are mayhem results just worse than any given 150k ped cycle are we are all paying for the privilege of mayhem tokens ?

Or

Has the cycle size now increased over the years so high that 130 -150k ped results mission cycle just isn't enough ammo shot to make things balance out longer term ?
Click to expand...

No, mayhem results are no different than any other mob result, however, most of us not really hunting such high HP mobs out of mayhems, so higher HP mobs with their higher volatility can make you think their result might be worse if you are in a lower return period like this.

Between last august and november, no matter where i was hunting, what mob, what efficiency, what dps, my result was around 93% for 430k cycle, i was assuming i have a low period, once will end and return will balancing out itself.
After that period the MM was above 97% return, while EM currently above 98% now, i assume this is a high period for me.

Not any of it will last forever, but sometimes 130k is not even close to balancing out something, while at other cases half of it will be enough.
 
My robot looter is just 33 and that's after ove finished the mission so quite poor . I'm sure that doesn't help !

The threads above are super great links . Thanks for digging those out !
 
Msturlese said:
you will probably get soon 10k rebalancing hof (yes yes there is no personal loot pool - LOL - )
Click to expand...
"No personal loot" = covfefe. Nobody knows what it means. They just said it to shut down the conspiracy posts.
We already know loot size is based on your decay. How is this not "personal"? :unsure:
 
ZPF said:
"No personal loot" = covfefe. Nobody knows what it means. They just said it to shut down the conspiracy posts.
We already know loot size is based on your decay. How is this not "personal"? :unsure:
Click to expand...
Judging by some players repports and logs, it look like there is not, loose can be abysmal.
Also no personnal pool, according to me, it mean g*mbl*ng.

When you see total noob hitting 4k5 and 1k5 where is personnal pool ?
 
ZPF said:
"No personal loot" = covfefe. Nobody knows what it means. They just said it to shut down the conspiracy posts.
We already know loot size is based on your decay. How is this not "personal"? :unsure:
Click to expand...
Well when you put it like that 🤣
 
400k cycled - 97.49% -> 6 dmg enh, beta amp -> Mayhem Foe
I switched between mayhem 4-8.

Lowest point was about 91% tt for 80k cycled in a low swing.


Used x1k mostly last year, the swings were just larger. ended at 96.5% with 1.0 after millions cycled.
 
Just dont go and shoot punnies after... as last thing u want is a multi kickback on a hp 100 mob.....
 
Supajosh said:
Total spend 127,219 PED
Total Loss -14,555 PED
Return % 88.56 %

( The above does exclude any MU)
Click to expand...

With your setup, I calculated you should expect a tt return of 91-92%.

So yes your returns are a bit on the low side, but they aren't off that far. It happens. Next time you might be 94% and that would equal it out.
 
Naomi said:
With your setup, I calculated you should expect a tt return of 91-92%.

So yes your returns are a bit on the low side, but they aren't off that far. It happens. Next time you might be 94% and that would equal it out.
Click to expand...
No this setup isn't that bad. I ran T9 R150 for awhile at 50 something % eff with lv 25ish looter. Ended up 93.5%

he should be getting 95%+ long run.
 
morey said:
No this setup isn't that bad. I ran T9 R150 for awhile at 50 something % eff with lv 25ish looter. Ended up 93.5%

he should be getting 95%+ long run.
Click to expand...

Apparently you guessed his expected returns based upon your own returns. Your own returns are possible a too small sample to be representative, as are his.
It's probably better to base your estimates on math rather then on guesses.
 
Orion said:
I ran full 100.000 points Redulite mostly in Cat 6 with M83 Predator, all unamped, all unenhanced, just scope and laser sights.
No markup invested on my side, only 100% TT repair costs.

1.702 Easter boxes looted
Maybe ~500 Output amps for 200PED TT looted
2 or 3 Mayhem armor parts (L) for ~500 PED looted
I didn't count the tokens, maybe around the same like you

TT wise I am a little more than 1k down in the red zone.

I sold the bunny for 500 PEDs.
Including Markup for boxes I am pretty much in the green zone again.
Click to expand...
I am really surprised to know "all" the players here lost only 12% on ammo cost and decay. many others only got back 60% of the total spending. Thats normal to me, else where did MA get all the profits from, right? Cheers~ spend within your limits and invest wisely , inputs must be greater than output :) have a wonderful tuesday
 
Cryogenic atack nanochip 8 (T5) +Delta amp (L)
100k Redulite 03/04/05/06 instances more in 04
50k points shoot with enchanchers, then I realized that it is not beneficial at all :D all my profit going to enchanchers
50k points shoot without enchancers
Globals: 304
Best global: 616
Boxes: 1407
Tokens: 8807
Rare tokens: 0 , one rare open in boxes
Items: ESI no one, two (L) parts of mayhem armor + (L) sword, tt food
- 8.8k peds ~
 
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