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I am not attacking any teams... or people that run the event...

This is my first season and I saw a vulnerability in the rules that could really jeopardize the legitimacy and fairness of this fun event i was/am really looking forward to participating in

I do hope you can see how this Nation vs Nation event has turned into a perverted chaos which can pit 1 nation vs the world... people who have already been eliminated...

Anyways you can have a vote... i am certain i already know the results...

the US could have used these tactics i have outlined... but it would be a disgraceful victory...

that is even assuming we make it past round 1
 
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Wildman Alpha said:
But the gloves off usually included every team that wanted to see you lose. Why do you think this event lost support of most of the major players in game? was the finals! Cap that shit get them back! to put it blunt and given light of new developments if agreed extent final main to 1st week of actual competition not qualifying. USA is tired if fighting everyone defeated in finals bottom line, you say all Sweden win and close to same post you say you can't control who is on the support????
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Jesus.


Look, I said I can't control support.
I also said the situation you fear hasn't happened.
The proof it probably will never happen is my example of last year, where a team who actively discouraged outside help scored more than anyone ever has, using any method.
Me saying I can't control support does not mean that I don't see what happens each year, and what might NEED controlling.

Sick of repeating myself, see you all tomorrow.

Hurrikane
 
Hurrikane said:
I was judging the match, and fielded requests from others who wished to help the Swedes. When I asked the Team where to send them they said not to, if they weren't Swedish. More than one said 'ok, we'll help France instead', and others may have migrated to the USA's side. Either way, support was not decisive in victory, and a team that actively discouraged others from helping it got the highest ever score.

The way the rules are right now, those who play fair and treat others well can enjoy the reward of that, to a small degree, from the random help of respectful ex-combatants who wish them well. Underdogs who struggle to get a good support can find the help they need to be competitive. Teams who treat others badly (pk'ing during rounds etc) might find support lacking.

My wife is reading this over my shoulder asking what the problem is, and I don't know.

Hurrikane
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Exactly what I mean! you static judging not out there seeing who is shooting, the competitors do. If Sweden fielded a 100% team congratz, but not what was seen on the battlefield but all good that was just 1 year. We go back to even a year before when USA did win and why? A snablesnot global! wasn't just usa VS the other 2 then also was it we just over came adversity due to a snablesnot global.

Hurricane your blindness to what happens when shots are fired sry to say is why WoF lost it's support over the years, cap support for finals!
 
Joker said:
I am not attacking any teams... or people that run the event...

This is my first season and I saw a vulnerability in the rules that could really jeopardize the legitimacy and fairness of this fun event i was/am really looking forward to participating in

I do hope you can see how this Nation vs Nation event has turned into a perverted chaos which can pit 1 nation vs the world... people who have already been eliminated...

Anyways you can have a vote... i am certain i already know the results...

the US could have used these tactics i have outlined... but it would be a disgraceful victory...

that is even assuming we make it past round 1
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When did it turn into perverted chaos? When the rule came in in 2008, or when the US won it fairly, twice?

And if you're the only nation that fears the rest of the world ganging up on you (no-one else seems to care) maybe take a look at that.

Hurrikane
 
It would be stupid and unfair to change the rules now that the event has started.

I honestly don't see how support caps would make a difference if it is more than a few hundred.

The best choice now would be to start making adjustments to the rules for next year.
 
Like I said, if you want a rule change, get the support of the majority of the teams. Set up a vote and tell me the result. I haven't got the time or inclination on the eve of the event (weirdly, I have other things to do than run a comp for free).

I can't change the rules on the whim of one team.


Hurrikane
 
narfi said:
It would be stupid and unfair to change the rules now that the event has started.

I honestly don't see how support caps would make a difference if it is more than a few hundred.

The best choice now would be to start making adjustments to the rules for next year.
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Event HASN'T started!
 
I think something like a 300 cap is fair. Its not just about protecting ourselves, as its been made out to be by everyone here... it protects every team. Whoever is the dominating country will more than likely face an underdog who has gathered support of other defeated teams.

I don't understand why everyone is making this a country vs country issue. Too much hate.

Hurrikane, you've stated that WOF has run this way for years... but there is no reason it shouldn't continue to evolve so that year by year it becomes a better and more polished event.

EVERYBODY needs to stop making this about any particular country or who does what. This is about the event as a whole so that every team faces the exact same fair playing field.

However, I will stand by my captain as I am a team player.
 
Rave said:
I think something like a 300 cap is fair. Its not just about protecting ourselves, as its been made out to be by everyone here... it protects every team. Whoever is the dominating country will more than likely face an underdog who has gathered support of other defeated teams.

I don't understand why everyone is making this a country vs country issue. Too much hate.

Hurrikane, you've stated that WOF has run this way for years... but there is no reason it shouldn't continue to evolve so that year by year it becomes a better and more polished event.

EVERYBODY needs to stop making this about any particular country or who does what. This is about the event as a whole so that every team faces the exact same fair playing field.

However, I will stand by my captain as I am a team player.
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I can't say it better than that!
 
Support is just that support! They should have some influence agreed over the total outcome. But needs to be limited! Otherwise why have a main team?
 
Wildman Alpha said:
Support is just that support! They should have some influence agreed over the total outcome. But needs to be limited! Otherwise why have a main team?
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that is a smart and logical way to put it... pretty plain and simple... I think EVERYONE can understand and see the problem more clearly
 
Rave said:
I think something like a 300 cap is fair. Its not just about protecting ourselves, as its been made out to be by everyone here... it protects every team. Whoever is the dominating country will more than likely face an underdog who has gathered support of other defeated teams.

I don't understand why everyone is making this a country vs country issue. Too much hate.

Hurrikane, you've stated that WOF has run this way for years... but there is no reason it shouldn't continue to evolve so that year by year it becomes a better and more polished event.

EVERYBODY needs to stop making this about any particular country or who does what. This is about the event as a whole so that every team faces the exact same fair playing field.

However, I will stand by my captain as I am a team player.
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Probably because it's a country vs country hunting event?? It was actually set up that way....shoot for your country??
As Serica pointed out above, i've been in wof before.....one year with Brent in Canada's main team.
For the record, I have alot of respect for Brent. In game and in rl knowing what he does for a living.
It actually wasn't meant as a personal slight, just an observation. If it helps i'll remove it...but it's been quoted a few times...so it is what it is...lol
Point is, it's a country vs country hunting event....because it's loose...all over the EU globe. The only criteria are based on points which = Globals....
It's a no holds barred, bare knuckles match....
If the U.S. finds that not to their liking then perhaps they shouldn't paticipate??
EU and Wof is supposed to be fun...you guys seem to want to suck the life out of it.

Instead of complaining nobody will support you when they get knocked out, perhaps you should look closer at why people join other support teams and not yours...

just a suggestion. :)
 
I don't mean that WOF shouldn't be about country vs country... this debate about the rules shouldn't be that way. What happens if a team other than USA finds themselves facing their opponent's main team and a support team comprising of every other team that lost? I'm pretty sure that team will also begin to complain about the unfair fight. But until then we should make Team USA the enemy in this debate?
 
Rave said:
...

I don't understand why everyone is making this a country vs country issue....
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Perhaps because it's only one country complaining.

The country that has won the most WoF's and almost inevitably has:
1/ the best equipped and skilled main team, and
2/ the best equipped, skilled, and numerically strong support.
Unless ofc the other teams (ie countries) go to extraordinary lengths to recruit, train and coordinate themselves. Which on occasion has happened.

TBH, atm USA team is coming across to me as the playground bully who wants his victims to stand still so he can kick them because he's sprained his finger and it hurts too much to punch them any more.
 
Rave said:
I don't mean that WOF shouldn't be about country vs country... this debate about the rules shouldn't be that way. What happens if a team other than USA finds themselves facing their opponent's main team and a support team comprising of every other team that lost? I'm pretty sure that team will also begin to complain about the unfair fight. But until then we should make Team USA the enemy in this debate?
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Uh you mean like the year Romania won ?

Sure we had a couple of individual members complain about the rules then.

But the rest of us re-grouped, fronted up next time, thought about what we could do to counter their strategy and just kept going :)
 
Serica said:
Perhaps because it's only one country complaining.

The country that has won the most WoF's and almost inevitably has:
1/ the best equipped and skilled main team, and
2/ the best equipped, skilled, and numerically strong support.
Unless ofc the other teams (ie countries) go to extraordinary lengths to recruit, train and coordinate themselves. Which on occasion has happened.

TBH, atm USA team is coming across to me as the playground bully who wants his victims to stand still so he can kick them because he's sprained his finger and it hurts too much to punch them any more.
Click to expand...

Because an issue was raised that has a valid reason to be brought up? Understand, as we have a very large player base, Team USA could also have a supreme, insanely massive support team. So, by capping support points, we are not only limiting other countries - but also our own. How is that anything close to a bully wanting to further kick someone after being injured. That logic is seriously flawed.

Joker raised a question about the rules as he has never participated before. Wildman, who has participated and seen the issue for himself, is pushing for it to be fixed. They both happen to be in Team USA this year, so suddenly its an entire team being a bully. I am merely here supporting my captain because he and a teammate have come under attack from other players for asking a rule to be reviewed and fixed that, if fixed, IN NO WAY GIVES ANY TEAM AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE!
 
I find the event to be fair.
Support introduces tactics and strategy, especially in the final round.
You have your support teams prioritizing what mobs to kill to gain points most efficiently while you have the main team bringing in over half the points that the country scores. Even with support team outnumbering the main team and killing more.

Also if a country is worried about being ganged up on, they should go in to talks with other countries and gain their support in later rounds if they lose out.

Every contry has the same options as the others.

If a country decides to enlist the support of a country that has been defeated, they are allowed. If a country decides to not enlist anyone from other countries, that is their choice. If they are worried about other countries enlisting the support of countries knocked out in previous rounds and try to win based on support team points, then they can do the same.

It is pretty fair.
 
Rave said:
Because an issue was raised that has a valid reason to be brought up? Understand, as we have a very large player base, Team USA could also have a supreme, insanely massive support team. So, by capping support points, we are not only limiting other countries - but also our own. How is that anything close to a bully wanting to further kick someone after being injured. That logic is seriously flawed.

Joker raised a question about the rules as he has never participated before. Wildman, who has participated and seen the issue for himself, is pushing for it to be fixed. They both happen to be in Team USA this year, so suddenly its an entire team being a bully. I am merely here supporting my captain because he and a teammate have come under attack from other players for asking a rule to be reviewed and fixed that IN NO WAY GIVES ANY TEAM AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE!
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And I would respectfully reply, that the rules are what the rules are.

Not sure why you think the rest of EU cares if you participate or not??
Sure it would be a bummer if the U.S. doesn't participate, but I don't think anyone from any country would want you guys to feel at a disadvanatage.
If you feel that strongly perhaps you should just sit on the sidelines and watch the rest of us have fun.

And I say that as a Canadian who will never in my estimation be considered a "contender" but i'll be there blasting away for the FUN. The tourney was designed to be just that....if you guys can't just join in as a serious contender, and muster all the support you can get....by all means sit out...
I don't think anyone wants to see people miserable by participation in a fun event. :scratch2:
 
Serica said:
Perhaps because it's only one country complaining.

The country that has won the most WoF's and almost inevitably has:
1/ the best equipped and skilled main team, and
2/ the best equipped, skilled, and numerically strong support.
Unless ofc the other teams (ie countries) go to extraordinary lengths to recruit, train and coordinate themselves. Which on occasion has happened.

TBH, atm USA team is coming across to me as the playground bully who wants his victims to stand still so he can kick them because he's sprained his finger and it hurts too much to punch them any more.
Click to expand...

never meant to post this.
 
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Wildman Alpha said:
To answer you,, to all that above. No reason to complain there. But when it came down to it why lose if we did had the best? Can you explain that? I can wasn't regulated properly.
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Tactics.
You can have the biggest gun in Entropia, but without the skills to use it, it isn't the best.
 
As stated a few times here, country vs country! or flagged and continents in game. I guess this is only to start with the current rules? Once WoF starts anything goes... What happened to start with what we got finish with what we got?
 
Wildman Alpha said:
As stated a few times here, country vs country! or flagged and continents in game. I guess this is only to start with the current rules? Once WoF starts anything goes... What happened to start with what we got finish with what we got?
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lol...even though Rave will likely show up to beat me up over it...

that sounds more like a quote from the marine handbook mate...not sure it's a world rule...just sayin :p :laugh:

For the record, I applaud countries like Sweden who turned away outside help cause they wanted to win on their own...(And they did it seems)

so why not aspire to that instead?
That's the cool thing about Wof...every country has a goal...The smaller countries don't really think they'll win...but fight to get as far as they can on what they can muster.
Why not aspire to win the wof on what you guys as a group can muster?
Only one country is complaining mate...play the game as it's set out or don't play?
People post the same everday of EU...why is this any different? At least in Wof the rules are set out for you...you choose to meet them or you don't...
Only reason I can see for all this turmoil after 6 years is the gifts...makes no sense otherwise.

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it is fairness... not greed... to be honest I dont care about the prizes... to my knowledge the prizes will be so small... it wont nearly cover the losses of hunting...

for me it is more about winning fair... and or losing fair... and having a little national pride...
but when i hear our best players wont play because there is a terrible cheat loophole in the rules... something should be done... or atleast be talked about... and that is what I did... and i am glad... now everyone knows... if you use this loophole you are a disgrace.... not only to yourself but your nation...

P.S. i was fine with the rule i just wanted clarification so when and if we used it... I wanted to know we wouldnt be dqed...

the rest of our team sees how unfair it is so I am backing them... and I totally agree with them... i stand united behind my team... whatever they decide
 
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I've created and hosted many events. I've participated in a lot, including many WoFs. And I am always saddened when I hear(read) people complain about the rules, hoping to change them to suit their wants.

I recall a talent show I participated in when I was a kid. Quite frankly, my part sucked, and the MC stopped my part early. I was so angry. It was unfair. My dad pulled me aside and told me... to stop acting like a cry baby and get over it. He explained to me that many entertainers go onto the Johnny Carson show (think an earlier David Letterman/Jay Leno for you younger folks) and have their act cut short, for various reasons. But the best performers don't pitch a fit and complain when it happens. they go with the flow and learn from it. I learned from my dad that when involved in a competition and you are unhappy about the rules, either suck it up and try to figure a way to win (without cheating) or don't play.

The rules for this year's WoF have been given. Hurrikane sets up this event. Discuss them, fine. Give Hurri ideas to change/improve things next year. Maybe he will. But this year figure out how to win. Load up your weapons. And go out there fighting.

Oh, something else I learned from my dad: Competition and rivalries don't require intentionally insulting your opponent. Steve_saber (and others) cracks on the USA (and other countries) are rude and frankly poor sportsmanship. (An old word, not used enough these days)

Were I playing in WoF this year, I'd do what I always do: Shake my opponents hands (symbolically in this case) wish them good luck, then implement my game strategy and win.

I wish all participants in this year's WoF good luck, happy hoffing, and have a good time. :)
 
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Joker said:
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it is fairness... not greed... to be honest I dont care about the prizes... to my knowledge the prizes will be so small... it wont nearly cover the losses of hunting...

for me it is more about winning fair... and or losing fair... and having a little national pride...
but when i hear our best players wont play because there is a terrible cheat loophole in the rules... something should be done... or atleast be talked about... and that is what I did... and i am glad... now everyone knows... if you use this loophole you are a disgrace.... not only to yourself but your nation...

P.S. i was fine with the rule i just wanted clarification so when and if we used it... I wanted to know we wouldnt be dqed...

the rest of our team sees how unfair it is so I am backing them... and I totally agree with them
Click to expand...

Sounds like U.S is out for 2012! :wave:
 
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JohnCapital said:
...
Oh, something else I earned from my dad: Competition and rivalries don't require intentionally insulting your opponent. ...
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Where would the cricket be without sledging ?? :silly2:
 
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Seems like it's going on and on even without me posting so I am back to the drama. Joker you don't want a 'fair' fight, you want a rule set that's suiting you the most. I still don't see how this rules are unfair just because of the US ubers not participating or the US not having the largest support team by default? Also you and Wildman are pretty rude and offensive no wonder you are fearing half Entropia to turn against you. But that's what you deserve for acting like this.
Also what's the crap with national pride? As if this was any good all the 'proud of your country' crap. As if you are any better just because you are born/you are living in a certain country. As if the achievements of your fellow countrymen is something you did or you could be proud of. National Pride has only one purpose: justification of violence and war too bad some people are still 'proud' enough to fall for this.
 
Joker said:
where did you get that from that post you quoted?
wishful thinking? wont be that easy baby brothers of the north ;)
we will participate tomorrow... see how it goes...
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Guess I was jumping ahead. ;)
Doesn't look like Hurricane is changing the rules for this year at least...Brent said he'd pull the team if they didn't...

I said bye bye :)

If you still don't get it and need it clearer I can send you a detailed synopsis by PM :p
 
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