Question: Suggestion on how to save us from the item flood.

[bettlejus]

The existence of the Terminator or otherwise is not relevant to this. Not everybody who has 100/100 or better will want to - or will be able to afford - the budget needed to seriously compete in Merry Mayhem, or possibly, would even care to take part. And guess what, next year there will be more such people, and in another year, even more.

What gear should all the hordes of people with Commando unlock use?

Guess what, Terminator is maxed at lvl 40

 

[xaph]

Yet another attempt to quantify infinity . Backing up your numbers ...mmm like my balls after no sex in 2 months

 

[remontoire]

Guess what, Terminator is maxed at lvl 40

I know. It does not make it any more relevant to the discussion at hand. Still only one person can use it at a time. Stop thinking about events.

 

[xaph]

Numbers

I'm too dumb

 

[bettlejus]

This thread it's 90% about events

 

[Futurama]

MAs vision is very unclear tbh...

First of all, do they want to remain the "american dream" type of game, where you can achieve a lot with intelligence, dedication and hard work. (e.g. all the non-depositor stories and other success stories). Or they are trying to level the playing field where everybody - more or less have to deposit in order to play (ofc, players who have huge stacks of CLDs or very good LAs probably woudn't need to). With so many UL weapons it seems they are trying to level it out, so "loosers" don't have to pay that much, but a lot of people who were used to non-depositing or very low amount of depositing will have to deposit more in future to do the same things as they do now.

Secondly - MA is killing crafting, mining and hunting loot markup with the item drops. The more UL items, the less demand for L weapons, both looted and crafted. Which also affects mining as well - less demand for materials.

Thirdly - it seems very weird that they are pilling new and new items over the old ones... Now we have 3 or 4 generations of weapons: 1) old school non-sib, 2) First L weapons (and some UL counterparts) 3) ??? LRs, isis, geotrek series 4) the ones we have nowadays. And it is clearly visible that they are similar in their stats in respected groups, than the next group comes with different base stats.


TBH I think MA is not sure what they should do and they are experimenting A LOT. If you ask me these questions - both economical and structural are too complex for most of people (including myself) to comprehend and make it better...

P.S. edit: I think you can look for similarities in RL when governments, central banks and others try to tackle issues regarding unemployment, inflation, interest rates, migration etc. but they can't produce the expected results. Its just too complex for a simple theory to work in practice....

 

[sitram]

MAs vision is very unclear tbh...

First of all, do they want to remain the "american dream" type of game, where you can achieve a lot with intelligence, dedication and hard work. (e.g. all the non-depositor stories and other success stories). Or they are trying to level the playing field where everybody - more or less have to deposit in order to play (ofc, players who have huge stacks of CLDs or very good LAs probably woudn't need to). With so many UL weapons it seems they are trying to level it out, so "loosers" don't have to pay that much, but a lot of people who were used to non-depositing or very low amount of depositing will have to deposit more in future to do the same things as they do now.

Secondly - MA is killing crafting, mining and hunting loot markup with the item drops. The more UL items, the less demand for L weapons, both looted and crafted. Which also affects mining as well - less demand for materials.

Thirdly - it seems very weird that they are pilling new and new items over the old ones... Now we have 3 or 4 generations of weapons: 1) old school non-sib, 2) First L weapons (and some UL counterparts) 3) ??? LRs, isis, geotrek series 4) the ones we have nowadays. And it is clearly visible that they are similar in their stats in respected groups, than the next group comes with different base stats.


TBH I think MA is not sure what they should do and they are experimenting A LOT. If you ask me these questions - both economical and structural are too complex for most of people (including myself) to comprehend and make it better...

P.S. edit: I think you can look for similarities in RL when governments, central banks and others try to tackle issues regarding unemployment, inflation, interest rates, migration etc. but they can't produce the expected results. Its just too complex for a simple theory to work in practice....

One of the best post I read in months on forum.

Everyone thinks they have a magical answer to EU's problems but things are not as easy as they seem.

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

[...]
TBH I think MA is not sure what they should do and they are experimenting A LOT. If you ask me these questions - both economical and structural are too complex for most of people (including myself) to comprehend and make it better...
[...]

That is a bit of a problem.
First, when they created tiering system they wanted to limit number of UL gear (chance to destroy item while tiering).
Now they drop so many UL of every kind that there is more supply than demand.

Many people, including myself, are afraid to purchase an upgrade, because we lost already lots of value on items we have and looking at trends, everything becomes cheaper and cheaper....
MA is shooting themselves in a leg (or a head).

 

[Futurama]

That is a bit of a problem.
First, when they created tiering system they wanted to limit number of UL gear (chance to destroy item while tiering).
Now they drop so many UL of every kind that there is more supply than demand.

Many people, including myself, are afraid to purchase an upgrade, because we lost already lots of value on items we have and looking at trends, everything becomes cheaper and cheaper....
MA is shooting themselves in a leg (or a head).

Yes, many thought this to be true, but than it was changed. I could name 100 other examples showing they have no clear long-term vision and they are experimenting.


Taming - it seemed like a fun thing to do, why not. Than they realized it was completely pointless and it needs a total revamp, than they realized they cannot do it.

New Oxford and the the shops and art - pure experiment to see whats going to happen.

Hadesheim was an old relic of the past, totally deserted, so they blew it up. But than they make Port Atlantis (and others, I think that spaceport what was the name is too large as well) in a similar manner (???).

Manipulation with material prices and even locations - niksarium, durulium for example...

Continuing with taming - systems that has barely any usage or future. Most of crafting is pointless.

Geography - I'm not saying I don't like it, but I feel they have been experimenting a lot with what people might find interesting. Like New Switzerland, that was a weird one for me. Also you can add all those islands and the instances that have been thrown in like and expansion packs - more experimenting? short-term content updates to keep people interested? You decide.

Could I place here planet partners? The original thought was kinda good, but the results are not so great. More experiments from their business side.


etc. etc.

 

[Freddie]

But if hunting the bigger mobs that are more expensive, how does that produce lower cost?

The main problem isnt that MM drops in value, its that everything drops, everything. As a chain reaction to whats going on upper level.

To some extent yes its good, cause whats driven prices high are not their usability, but rather the urge from top item owners to protect their investment.

Many of us mid-lvl players can afford the hunts, and can also afford hunts on bigger mobs. But we can't afford the cost of the equipment that let's us hunt them.
Everyone can afford armours like Ghost and Gremlin with a set of plates (w/o foot guards ofc), but the step above that is 2000$ and up. So above Ghost level the requirements of your RL-economy becomes big. 2000$ is alot of money to spend on a game, just to be able to buy an armour to survive

That's close to an average monthly paycheck in say Sweden.
The average monthly paycheck is around 3.5k$, spending 2/3's of that on a game is not realistic.

Freddie

 

[hogfather]

The main problem as I see it, is that even though MA is controlling the drops they are not exactly doing a fine job with it.

The more viable model is the one from Arkadia with the Smuggler weapons. Slowly bring out equipment of all levels, thus giving the market time to adjust. But by flooding the market with weapons on specific levels, ie 35's and 70+ it is creating an imbalance that only serves to scare players from investing in equipment.

And as it has been already noted, the oversupply of (L) weapons is indeed crippling the economy circle, taking away incentive for crafters and miners. I don't argue with MA's intentions, to make this game more accessible to a wider player range, but the execution is severely lacking...

 

[dachabaz]

Kill the prices !!!

 

[aia]

2000$ is alot of money to spend on a game, just to be able to buy an armour to survive

That's close to an average monthly paycheck in say Sweden.
The average monthly paycheck is around 3.5k$, spending 2/3's of that on a game is not realistic.

For some perspective, I get 100*~20 USD/month. After tax it means around 10 000 SEK/month. It's supposed to cover Daily liviing expenses like rent, student loans (~2000 SEK 4 times/year), broadband, TV fees. And food.

Where I live, several hundred people have been sacked or will be sacked coming year (between thumb and indexfinger, I guess nearly 1000 people will eventually be invited to Fas3 unless a miracle happens). Unemployment is over 13%. (Ok, 13% isn't high compared to some countries like Haiti, but I live in Sweden.) And I don't belong to a prioritized Group when it comes to job market, being over 25 and all that.

I've hoped to have a chance to get a job where I've had temporary employments, but they are constantly suffering from budget cutbacks, and won't fill coming positions from retired people.

Just to mention a minor example of people lay-offs: The Swedish Governmentatil railroads are going to refurbish the trains, so they Close all ticket offices except 4-5. The people who work at ticket office in Town where i live will be laid off and join the the "employment reserve". It's just 3-4 peole but you get the Picture.

This far I've been able to play with what I can each month, including eating on my savings. But unless I win IRL lottery I won't be able to deposit to get Equipment costing several thousands of PEDs.

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

Many of us mid-lvl players can afford the hunts, and can also afford hunts on bigger mobs. But we can't afford the cost of the equipment that let's us hunt them.
[...]

[...]
This far I've been able to play with what I can each month, including eating on my savings. But unless I win IRL lottery I won't be able to deposit to get Equipment costing several thousands of PEDs.

Why you people wanna destroy the prices on gear because you cannot afford it?
Many people invested big money into game to be able to play with big toys.
They trusted and supported game. Now you wanna devalue their investments?

Many people IRL would like to drive Ferrari and Porsche.
Unfortunately most of them can't afford it and have to drive Fiat.

EU is RCE game, why would you like everybody being able to afford big toys?
There are many lesser ones that you can't afford. If cannot afford even cheap ones then use L gear.

 

[remontoire]

Why you people wanna destroy the prices on gear because you cannot afford it?
Many people invested big money into game to be able to play with big toys.
They trusted and supported game. Now you wanna devalue their investments?

It could be: Because the difference between the price of the items and value of the items continues to be too big.

But instead of that, it really is - the continued support for the game by all the rest of us depends on us actually seeing that our investments in our avatars continue to lead somewhere, that there is gear available to be used when the avatar progresses. Go, on, try to run the game only with those people who have high level armors and UL guns, and see how long you stay afloat.

Dropping more of whatever gear does not destroy somebody's investment in it - they still have it, and they have been using it, while those that did not invest, did not have that privilege (and are behind on tiers, etc). It might alter their valuation of its price, but that is an altogether different thing.

 

[shoti]

I would say no more events !!! Let LA owners live !!!!

 

[aia]

Now you wanna devalue their investments?

First, pretty much Everything I have has gone down in prices, generally. At end of VU9 I bought a V heal chip for 900ish PEDs, now it's 250 ped, just to make an example.

My apartment on Calypso I bought for 260 peds, now it's Worth more. On the other hand, my apartment on asteroid/CND is now Worth less.

The plasma rifle I got, that once was Worth 3k:ish peds (by slowly upgrading via a Fox ME), that I've been using to skill plasma, is nowdays not advisable to use even. The Big Guys already got ther Eredicator Type Four. Obiously, when those guns dropped and there were big plasma guns with SIB it devaluabled *my* investments I had done in skilling. My plasma rifle that once was used 3k ped as collateral in bank is now more or less Worth TT, or say market value tt+1000.

I've spent a lot of time skilling so I could fully use my teleportation chip. Now there is space where it's not useable.


The guys with lots of Money and who were invited to the special deal were able to get the medusas heads islands for 330k ped total. Now they've been Selling out the lands for (probably) around 150k/piece. *They* have gotten the value back from their investments. The first shareholders who sold their shares, as announced in trading section, got (I approximate) at least 5x their initial investment out.

The only real investment opportunity I've been able to take part of has been the CLDs, and the Big Guys are bashing the CLDs because they taken Money from the hunters' budget that they otherwise would be a part of.

And, yes, I'm using (L) gear. Because i have to, more or less.

Another strait question: Should mid-level players, who this far with the candy-rain of good items devaluating uber gear down to zero [realtive to the size of a typical uber's PED card value] have any substantial thing to hunt for, or is the depositing mid-level players just the cattle that's supposed to pay the markup for (L) items that fall from above and pay for the gamplay of those who have made it to the top?

I've spent lots of hours in game. Sure, a lot of hours spent on other thing than grinding (hopefully some of that time has come to some use for others), the times spent in grinding hasnt' been as rewarding as the time spent by other due to lack of gear. I've been 7 years ingame, and the Enkidd (L) guns I mentioned in Another post has been ingame like, 1 year? (They dropped after the repairable eredicators).

The people who have the Vrex 2000 SGA has been able to tier them up nicely and fast, and that investment is pretty safe also. They were dropped by BPs that a few crafters got, sold for 12000 ped and are now Worth more. And for anyone who want to use rocktets seriously, there is no competition. So, there is an area where those who had PEDs at the right time have had an opportunity.

Compair their investment in time and PEDs spent for their tiering, and the time it takes to tier up an oldschool plasma rifle and skill on it. (Hint: Attacks/second.)

Wormhole chips has gone up from 1k ped (they were around that when I joined) and are now Worth 5k ped. Is that also a devaluation?

 

[ZPF]

Make up your damn minds folks. Are these investments, or are they "toys"? When you buy your children an action figure, do they think about what it's going to sell for at the backyard garage sale 10 years from now?

I think many people just call them "investments" because they want sympathy from the community. You can't have it both ways. If this is an "investment" for you, now is the time to sell and cut your losses (or profit, depending). Simple as that. If you don't do it, it's your own fault. Stop blaming the market. The market doesn't answer to you.

 

[JD RACING]

the price of high item are not keeping this game alive

most of the top players had the item when they were cheap and keep winning the event whit even have to depo


i for my self not going to spent 50k dollars to get good gear just to try to loot item when most of them share it between each other

there were here before they nerf most of the skills

for what i spent till now if i was here when the game first started in the first year and most of the other people they would be as big as star

 

[Acro]

Why is unlimited weapons a bad thing again?

There was a time when all weapons where unlimited and people actually complained that L weapons where introduced. Now people complain that too many UL sib weapons are introduced.
Funny thing is that the people that complain are the ones owning UL sib weapons.

If you don't have UL sib; you want L to be as cheap as possible; if you own UL (sib/olskool) you want the price to be as high as possible since you're on the selling side of things.

Thing is whinning about the flood of UL is like whinning about loot; not the tt of loot but the MU.
'
actually the title should read; 'How to save MU on loot for people having UL gear' instead.

Since any participant in EU using L gear because they don't want to spend 2000 real dollars on a virtual item are the ones that will not agree with you.

And everyone that answered in the thread "should EU go mainstream" with yes; should know that this basically means that UL sib should go TT+40ped; like the MK2 justifier did 7 years ago. Then everyone and his granny where using it and PE had alot more players than EU has today.

and whe are not speaking about everything cost "500" ped scenario; we are speaking about your main gun costs "100ped" to buy.

Remember that time Ermic? You must have liked it so much if you kept playing back then. Maybe you forgot it as you skilled up in the "golden era" when skilles weren't nerfed; opalo's were overamped to be as eco as a MM and the only things expensive are the only things that are expensive today; namely ubergear.

If you make low and midlevel gear expensive and unaccesable to the community, the new players, you are actually helping killing the game in a way.

I'm actually sick of people that started before me or when I started playing whinning and trying to screw the newer players.
just my

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

Why is unlimited weapons a bad thing again?

There was a time when all weapons where unlimited and people actually complained that L weapons where introduced. Now people complain that too many UL sib weapons are introduced.

Just for a reason that if everybody will have UL SIB gun/armor/fap/whatever, then there will be no need for L items.
This would mean that there will be no MU on hunting (pretty much we are already there) and mining loot. Also crafting will be obsolete.

Try to understand economy, and that only way to 'win' here is to do good on MU (disregard hitting jackpot like 330k loot).

Funny thing is that the people that complain are the ones owning UL sib weapons.
[...]

Funny thing that people complaining about gear being too expensive are the ones who don't own it....

 

[remontoire]

Funny thing that people complaining about gear being too expensive are the ones who don't own it....

We all have UL SIB weapons. From TT for example. Want us to switch using only those?

 

[ermik]

Try to understand economy, and that only way to 'win' here is to do good on MU (disregard hitting jackpot like 330k loot).
.

Who said the guy who hit 330k ath profited?

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

We all have UL SIB weapons. From TT for example. Want us to switch using only those?

If only that's what you can afford and you don't want to use L, then yes, that would be the reasonable way.

 

[remontoire]

If only that's what you can afford and you don't want to use L, then yes, that would be the reasonable way.

Well, here is a prediction for you - the more there are pretentious asswipes like you in game, the more the markup on everything will drop, as there won't be anybody left who is willing to pay any more markup.

 

[ZPF]

I haven't seen one single good argument in this thread for why MA should stop the item food thereby reducing the cost to play... A good argument is supported by a flow of logical reasoning and not speculation or emotion.

Yes. The prices will go down. Yes. People will be pissed. But why does anyone think the universe is going to explode and die?

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

Well, here is a prediction for you - the more there are pretentious asswipes like you in game, the more the markup on everything will drop, as there won't be anybody left who is willing to pay any more markup.

Are you always trying to insult people when you are short of arguments for civilized discussion?
You just showed your true colors in this post...

 

[minim]

There is no fun when all goals are removed enough said I think.

 

[ZPF]

There is no fun when all goals are removed enough said I think.

They are not removing HoFs and ATHs from game

Why does anyone do mining? You don't get any cool items from mining. Only rocks and stones

Goals are still there. Create your own goals. EU is "dynamic"

 

[minim]

They are not removing HoFs and ATHs from game

Why does anyone do mining? You don't get any cool items from mining. Only rocks and stones

Goals are still there. Create your own goals. EU is "dynamic"

Kinda, before it was common to hope to loot a rare item and sell it for a nice bunch of peddies. If this rain keeps up nothing is worth anything anymore. Hofs and ATHs aren't worth shit since it's most often tt food and tt food has to be paid for (a ath/hof is never profit if it's tt food, there, spoonfed!). The things that are worth something atm is markup from L gear or markup from UL looted gear. With making to much of the UL gear markup on BOTH L and UL drops to shit and everyone is hunting with a constant 10% loss at all times. Let's see how long that works out ^^

Yeah I will and have adapted to mindarks drinking problem. It's a retarded move that I cannot see the reason behind it but It's not a big problem as I've changed my play style according the changes. Eventually tho, if they don't make changes, the hunting system will crash and take mining/crafting with it down the drain.

I can see that everyone want cheap gear but what is the point of owning it when there is no advantage anymore? It's a lot better to use L then in my opinion since you can change guns for what you want to hunt and when everyone is using UL the L guns will be TT food anyways and don't require you to tie up any peds. Try to open your eyes a little bit and think bigger than your own inventory and greed for getting some kind of carrot-item you have been drooling over for years. Try to see the consequences in a bigger picture, the connection between the professions and all the advantages of having markup is in a fixed TT loss system like entropia has. When everything is TT food you don't even have to bother trying to outsmart others anymore with hunting for markup. No need for auctions, TT terminal will fix it.