Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

Amps really do work on a different system?

Manix6

Manix6

Alpha
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Posts
692
Location
UK
Society
Pyrates of Calypso
Avatar Name
Old
I am part way through an experiment to test some things out, i started by doing around 10k unamped drops in a few select areas targetting certain ores at frequent times during the day to work out respawns and ore ratio %ages.

Things went okay, one small hof and a couple of glowies but apart from that my finds kept to an average of 28% find rate and 90% tt return, which is what i was expecting,

Now using this method i was profitng around 30-40 ped per 200 ped run (on markup), and had an average markup of around 122% for my ores, taking just over an hour per run this gave me a profit of lets say 30 ped an hour,

Now i am working through the next part of my experiement, doing a similar number of drops using a 103 in the same areas at the same times.

Tripiling the drop cost (and adding 9 ped markup per 56 bombs) gives an overall markup per amp of 105.2%, reducing my effiency my 5.2%, but tripiling my drop value would give me a profit of 85 ped / hour provided both these systems share the same patterns.

However, i am only a short way through my 103 runs, (like 700-800 drops) however i have noticed a drastic cut to my claim rate (down to 21% from 28% (25% reduction)) and a drastic reduction to my tt return (60% opposed to 90%, (a 33% reduction)).

Nothing has changed on my account in terms of method, area or time, therefore i can only suggest that im going through a horrible streak (usually that number of drops is good enough to average out these blips in most cases ive come across), havent had a single claim over XI in that time, or that the system is actually more devious then it appears to be,

I see no possible reason for returns such as these, i know how to mine, i have been playing this game for approx 5 years now, yet im getting shafted harder then ever, anyone else find anything like this in terms of you have a perfect stratergy which has been working indefinatley, yet as soon as you put any form of amp on you just get screwed over?
 
same thing with amps as with hunting higher maturity stuff... or crafting higher level stuff... the no looters are more, but the loot you do get is substantially bigger usually.
 
mastermesh said:
same thing with amps as with hunting higher maturity stuff... or crafting higher level stuff... the no looters are more, but the loot you do get is substantially bigger usually.
Click to expand...

Hmm but in theory the only thing i am changing is the cost per drop in tt terms which is tripling, which 'should' increase my finds by 3x and thats it (atleast on average, 90% tt return),

so is my error in assuming that with mining with a 103 i will get 3x the tt back i would do if i was just mining with normal bombs? Yet from my experience its telling me that its a completely different system?
 
so your increasing your drop cost, which increases your loot swings/variance, but not increasing your run size or the total ped you plan on cycling?

it seems to be that the more ped an activity has, amping, hunting bigger, the more variance in loot you will have as well. this leads to bigger hits, but also lower lows. therefore it becomes a budget game, can you withstand your losses until the return comes? if not, rein back a bit.
 
Shapememory said:
so your increasing your drop cost, which increases your loot swings/variance, but not increasing your run size or the total ped you plan on cycling?

it seems to be that the more ped an activity has, amping, hunting bigger, the more variance in loot you will have as well. this leads to bigger hits, but also lower lows. therefore it becomes a budget game, can you withstand your losses until the return comes? if not, rein back a bit.
Click to expand...

Hmm, well i suppose i just didnt belive that the varience could be so high on such a small amp, and i was planning on doing the same sort of 10k drops with a 103, but at this projected losses, its honestly not worth it. Unamped mining is pretty self sufficent, amped is not so. Unless ofcourse you are starting with deep pockets.
 
I've ever bothered to keep such detailed records; nowever, I've alway felt that using an amplifier increases the yield while reducing the chance of success. after all, if it only increased the yield, it would be too easy. mathematically, it would be a global multiplier across the statistical average. this would making using a mining ampifiler a pretty much no risk proposition.

most people, including myself, consider using amplifiers a taking an additional risk proportional to the size of the amplifier. sort of like how the condition bar works with crafting.
 
kira-red said:
most people, including myself, consider using amplifiers a taking an additional risk proportional to the size of the amplifier. sort of like how the condition bar works with crafting.
Click to expand...

Exactly how I see it.
 
kira-red said:
I've ever bothered to keep such detailed records; nowever, I've alway felt that using an amplifier increases the yield while reducing the chance of success. after all, if it only increased the yield, it would be too easy. mathematically, it would be a global multiplier across the statistical average. this would making using a mining ampifiler a pretty much no risk proposition.

most people, including myself, consider using amplifiers a taking an additional risk proportional to the size of the amplifier. sort of like how the condition bar works with crafting.
Click to expand...


pretty much no amp small ped needed card low steady returns.

Bigger the amp, the higher percentage of a drop you pay mu for. Then you have to get mu over that mu to profit and you have to make up for the estimated 7-10% decay loss. Your ped card has to be bigger to make it through bad periods. More of a gamble if your big hit will be high mu or low mu, to determine if you profit or lose.
 
You will see a greater variance when using amps, that is a given. I don't think that anything works on a different system. Mining, hunting and crafting work with the same basic set of rules.
 
Manix6 said:
I am part way through an experiment to test some things out, i started by doing around 10k unamped drops in a few select areas targetting certain ores at frequent times during the day to work out respawns and ore ratio %ages.

Things went okay, one small hof and a couple of glowies but apart from that my finds kept to an average of 28% find rate and 90% tt return, which is what i was expecting,

Now using this method i was profitng around 30-40 ped per 200 ped run (on markup), and had an average markup of around 122% for my ores, taking just over an hour per run this gave me a profit of lets say 30 ped an hour,

Now i am working through the next part of my experiement, doing a similar number of drops using a 103 in the same areas at the same times.

Tripiling the drop cost (and adding 9 ped markup per 56 bombs) gives an overall markup per amp of 105.2%, reducing my effiency my 5.2%, but tripiling my drop value would give me a profit of 85 ped / hour provided both these systems share the same patterns.

However, i am only a short way through my 103 runs, (like 700-800 drops) however i have noticed a drastic cut to my claim rate (down to 21% from 28% (25% reduction)) and a drastic reduction to my tt return (60% opposed to 90%, (a 33% reduction)).

Nothing has changed on my account in terms of method, area or time, therefore i can only suggest that im going through a horrible streak (usually that number of drops is good enough to average out these blips in most cases ive come across), havent had a single claim over XI in that time, or that the system is actually more devious then it appears to be,

I see no possible reason for returns such as these, i know how to mine, i have been playing this game for approx 5 years now, yet im getting shafted harder then ever, anyone else find anything like this in terms of you have a perfect stratergy which has been working indefinatley, yet as soon as you put any form of amp on you just get screwed over?
Click to expand...


check journal of virtual worlds, article on mining.... there is a bit more to it than what appears at first sight...

http://journals.tdl.org/jvwr/article/viewArticle/647
 
When you use bigger amps, you might need to cycle a lot more peds to achieve the average expected returns... Its a common misconception - people swich to bigger amps, got a bad streak and loose a lot of peds in the short run. So the obvious conclusion is that amps are evil. But in the reality in the long run its the same average tt returns...


Its like in hunting you can`t expect much when you kill only lets say 5 Dasps.
 
there are periods of good loot and bad loot.... that last weeks or even months at a time depending on how much you play, you have to consider that as well. perhaps on your unamped first 1k you were in a decent cycle and are now entering a lousy one

i drop 224 bombs using 4 103 amps in the same areas, same ores, everyday... and notice drastic changes from month to month. overall its the same slow steady profit with fluctuations of 2-4k ped between periods, which for me usually last about a month

i use to do the same thing unamped, and had the exact same results by % over time. i think using amps simply makes the same things happen quicker. small... or low mu% amps is the way to go.

the golden rule is that MU is everything ;)
 
3-J said:
there are periods of good loot and bad loot.... that last weeks or even months at a time depending on how much you play, you have to consider that as well. perhaps on your unamped first 1k you were in a decent cycle and are now entering a lousy one

i drop 224 bombs using 4 103 amps in the same areas, same ores, everyday... and notice drastic changes from month to month. overall its the same slow steady profit with fluctuations of 2-4k ped between periods, which for me usually last about a month

i use to do the same thing unamped, and had the exact same results by % over time. i think using amps simply makes the same things happen quicker. small... or low mu% amps is the way to go.

the golden rule is that MU is everything ;)
Click to expand...

You are paying for your addiction, one way or another.
 
I have records of my return including MU for my entire mining history up to Lvl 36 Prospector, and I had approximately the same profit per bomb from the time I was unamped to using an OA-102, so my expectations of your results would have been the same as yours, and your actual results look anomalous. Unless MA have changed the algorithm recently.

It would take a lot of evidence to prove amps either change the hit rate or the claim size variance. (I'm prepared to believe hit rate decreases slightly with finder depth).
 
Manix6 said:
I see no possible reason for returns such as these, i know how to mine, i have been playing this game for approx 5 years now, yet im getting shafted harder then ever, anyone else find anything like this in terms of you have a perfect stratergy which has been working indefinatley, yet as soon as you put any form of amp on you just get screwed over?
Click to expand...

I mined for 6 months unamped when i started and was breaking even in the long run. Mined quite a lot. Then i amped up to MA-103 and continued to break even in long run for another 6 months, getting some globals here and there... no depositing for all the 12 months....

All of a sudden, NO change in amp, same techniques which gave me good results... and it all turned red, bad runs, few to no globals... Tried hunting for a while, tried ore mining, etc... but whatever i do i cant seem to get back to my golden age anymore. Oh well...

I have said "I see no possible reason for returns such as these" too many times to count now.
 
Manix6 said:
so is my error in assuming that with mining with a 103 i will get 3x the tt back i would do if i was just mining with normal bombs?
Click to expand...

Your error is to asume there is any darn logic to anything MindArk does. :wise::laugh:
 
Manix6 said:
I am part way through an experiment to test some things out, i started by doing around 10k unamped drops in a few select areas targetting certain ores at frequent times during the day to work out respawns and ore ratio %ages.

Things went okay, one small hof and a couple of glowies but apart from that my finds kept to an average of 28% find rate and 90% tt return, which is what i was expecting,

Now using this method i was profitng around 30-40 ped per 200 ped run (on markup), and had an average markup of around 122% for my ores, taking just over an hour per run this gave me a profit of lets say 30 ped an hour,

Now i am working through the next part of my experiement, doing a similar number of drops using a 103 in the same areas at the same times.

Tripiling the drop cost (and adding 9 ped markup per 56 bombs) gives an overall markup per amp of 105.2%, reducing my effiency my 5.2%, but tripiling my drop value would give me a profit of 85 ped / hour provided both these systems share the same patterns.

However, i am only a short way through my 103 runs, (like 700-800 drops) however i have noticed a drastic cut to my claim rate (down to 21% from 28% (25% reduction)) and a drastic reduction to my tt return (60% opposed to 90%, (a 33% reduction)).

Nothing has changed on my account in terms of method, area or time, therefore i can only suggest that im going through a horrible streak (usually that number of drops is good enough to average out these blips in most cases ive come across), havent had a single claim over XI in that time, or that the system is actually more devious then it appears to be,

I see no possible reason for returns such as these, i know how to mine, i have been playing this game for approx 5 years now, yet im getting shafted harder then ever, anyone else find anything like this in terms of you have a perfect stratergy which has been working indefinatley, yet as soon as you put any form of amp on you just get screwed over?
Click to expand...

I wasn't surprised with your result, as I only got around 45% TT return with a MA 104. So, amps didn't guarantee more profit to miners...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top