Are we being robbed by MA/FPC? Or is it just me?

[True Juan]

Loot has changed And dont hold your breath for new planets. It will be the SAME LOOT SYSTEM, just different mobs/weapons/landscape/theme

 

[Infinity01]

Something is obviously very wrong with MA's financials, because I cannot believe they would continue with this payout policy otherwise. They are driving people out of the game, and destroying any chance of keeping the new wave of players.

I'd like a return to basics. Strip the company bare, concentrate on the essential, ie, a decent return rate, add the rest back when you are capable of supporting it alongside the return rate.

This is exactly what i'm thinking too....

But looks like most players do not want
a monthly fee based sytem as shown in this thread:

I'm kinda curious about something. Would people still play this game as actively or at all if the RCE were removed.

Let me Explain:

We keep everything in the game as is (well mostly), we just remove the need to deposit and replace it with a normal MMO model, we introduce a $25 monthly fee. To get peds, you would get a weekly in game allowance, which you then go out and spend same as your current deposits.

We can have it all scalable and say that as you pass certain milestones in skilling you get more weekly ped to spend etc. with globals, hofs and ath's topping up your in game ped to much higher levels if you get them.

Also they don't want a Hybrid system as shown in this thread:

I was reading a thread with poll



i was surprised to see that most players didn't want a monthly fee based EU. Most players like the feel of a Real Cash Economy that drives all the emotional ups and downs in this game.

To be honest, i didn't vote....coz while i was reading the first post, suddenly i thought about a hybrid system.

But before i go into detail I must admit i don't have much experiences with other MMORPG......so not much of an expert to have a post like this... but with that in mind consider this model:

A Hybrid EU Model (Monthly pay + Real Cash Economy)

Say a mandatory minimum monthly pay (US$ 5 - 25 ) with certain ammount of monthly ped allowances. .....and if a player ped card value is > 2000 peds it'll be automatically deducted from his account for the fee. if < 2000 peds he has to pay monthly fee.

If one wants to play more than the allowance (after spending it) he/she may deposit more money based on needs.....but that extra deposit won't be counted towards next month payment unless the value goes above 2000 peds

If a player become inactive he/she has to notify MA, and the player don't have to deposit and nothing will be deducted from his account if doesn't play for a full callander month.

A player can withdrow above certain ammount of his balance (say 2000 peds) if he/she wishes.

(the monthy fee and 2000 peds both are arbitrary, and might be different)

Other aspects of the game remains unchanged,

Adventages:

1. this model will give MA a certainty of some revinues.

2. for many players it might prevent compulsive excessive depo and if they hunt less in certain months can do more in subsequent months.

3.the players will continue to feel it as RCE.


Just a thought.

Now you guys can elavorate the pros and cons of it

And most players (based on their response to those threads) are happy with the current models

But this thread obviously suggest otherwise.

If MA is in the red, financially (which i think they are!)
And if they need more efficient people to

1. make EU with less bug and
2.to give better content for better game experiences ( to keep existing player happy and bring in more players ingame)

It would need money......

Now the questions are

1. how are they gonna get the money ?
2. who are going to pay for it?


3. and if MA is financially in the red where is our money going?
a. is it the non-depositor,
b. a few MA favorite (if any) or
c. the traders/land owner

 

[SunnyS]

Do I even bother???...

One word..."Balancing"... gotta ask yourself a question ...while a lot of players are hurting... how come certain players are always featured in the Top 10 Hof list ALWAYS!? ... no matter what they do...

hmmm ... check EU Tracker for a week and you will have the answer

... as for me, MA already knows I am a "Milking Cow" dropping 500USD/week average... about 4 months back I would get a 2.5k+ HoF everytime I sneezed ... now I just look at a 5k hof and laugh inside "There's my money"... nothing I can do ...

 

[2Com]

funniest part about the drop in loot tho, before hand i was happily a $300 to $500 per month depositor, i am beginning to think that a break from the game is in order or at least until the trends start to point towards no longer sucking all the ped out of my card in 1 or 2 days, u know, when a mid level hunter can survive on 1000 ped in ammo per week.

but really, the funniest part is, i am one of the little guys that doesn't deposit much at all compared to some of the big guys, wonder how long till things really start to change after alot of them stop depositing, Mindarks income from decay and auction fees start's to decline as less ppl are doing less things.

not going to look very good for these future planets etc that are coming out, after all, would you invest $1,000,000 in a business that is driving it's customer base away, even the bigger depositors?

 

[the-unknown]

Since event started loot has been screwy. My normal level mobs have been looting (or not looting) in a manner which I am not comfortable with. Especially with low returns.

I downgraded the mobs I usually hunt and have been pretty much back in the black.

I dont know much about much further back as I was on a 10 month break till a month back.

May not be as fun as the mobs I used to do, but at least am not bleeding red, lol.

PS : Swunting / sweating / chatting can be fun as well. No need to cycle peds every time you are online.

 

[travolta]

if u were a noob reading this thread what would u think?

 

[mastermesh]

MA, if you are reading this, stop drying up our loot and put ads on your website, on your forum, in the in game ad system, on signs around the various in game cities that you could put in there, etc... Does FPC itself even had a PR department that handles ads or does it rely on MA? If it relies on MA, maybe that can be fixed eventually (soon)...

 

[das]

& while you're at it, make sure skills & gear actually MEANS something in returns..
Getting tiered of shitloots while noobs who die 5 times next to me get 5 times more loot in globals/hofs, that's just BS

 

[mike jones]

MA, if you are reading this, stop drying up our loot and put ads on your website, on your forum, in the in game ad system, on signs around the various in game cities that you could put in there, etc... Does FPC itself even had a PR department that handles ads or does it rely on MA? If it relies on MA, maybe that can be fixed eventually (soon)...

i totally agree we need to see some ads from real world vendors

 

[SunnyS]

This is exactly what i'm thinking too....

But looks like most players do not want
a monthly fee based sytem as shown in this thread:




Also they don't want a Hybrid system as shown in this thread:



And most players (based on their response to those threads) are happy with the current models

But this thread obviously suggest otherwise.

If MA is in the red, financially (which i think they are!)
And if they need more efficient people to

1. make EU with less bug and
2.to give better content for better game experiences ( to keep existing player happy and bring in more players ingame)

It would need money......

Now the questions are

1. how are they gonna get the money ?
2. who are going to pay for it?


3. and if MA is financially in the red where is our money going?
a. is it the non-depositor,
b. a few MA favorite (if any) or
c. the traders/land owner

BINGO!

BTW... trust me 'creative accounting' can make everything look red... doesn't mean anything

 

[Dab]

If you feel like you are getting robbed, think again.

You are willingly paying. Same as any casino. Same disgruntled crowd of people complaining that the are being robbed while holding out their credit card to buy more chips.

People like to make the false analogy of EU as entertainment the same as going to the movies or to the local pub - big difference is; the people you are drinking with or watching a movie with don't have their hand in your pocket. Not to mention the people who didn't even pay to get in getting free movie tickets and beer as well.

ND claims to have been making $200,000 a year, plus all the other landowners + 'traders' + Paying (MA + FPC + Rocktropia) + lucky people hitting big loots and withdrawing + all the non-depositors who play on your dime. + Don't forget the thieves who you all refer to lovingly as scammers.

Someone has to pay all those people.

If you are treating EU as a game, and you are feeling robbed, you only have yourself to blame for continuing.

To all the people who feel like this isn't the first time they are being "robbed", find a mirror and you will see the culprit.

Someday there will only be traders and investors left. It will be like a game of hot-potato with the big ticket items.

Putting an ad in EU is like putting an ad in a small town newspaper. A few thousand people a month will see it at most. That's why there are no ads on the ad screens anymore. Those companies that were doing it only let themselves get robbed once.

 

[Svena]

MA is stuck in bind.

From my in game experience and talking with other people, returns on average seem to be around 80% tt value. This is horrifically low and drains far too much tt value from the game. This game will die eventually if tt return is not pumped back up to at least 90%, though I for one believe the game would become huge if returns in the long run could be as high as 98-99% return.

The problem lies in that MA has spent all their cash on stupid things. Instead of returning it in loot, they bought a cumbersome high end fps graphic engine, threw tones away trying to start a bank and go public, expanded their workforce well beyond what they game should need, sold off countless income streams for short term cash, bought a god damn castle IRL, continue to fail at public relations, fail to return the game to its original state before the graphic update, continue to plauge the game with horrible bugs that cost the player base countless peds each update, etc etc etc.

Long story short, MA has no where near the funds to increase return rate in hopes that more people start playing, but its doubtful more people will start playing until returns are reasonable.

 

[SunnyS]

If you are treating EU as a game, and you are feeling robbed, you only have yourself to blame for continuing.

To all the people who feel like this isn't the first time they are being "robbed", find a mirror and you will see the culprit.

I hate it when some one uses this line.... such a copout and stupid thing to say when there is no logic. It's like when a wife-beater tells his wife... you made me do it... it's all your fault.

WHERE THE F*&^K WILL THE MONEY COME FROM IF EVERYONE LISTENED TO YOU AND STOP GETTING 'ROBBED' BY THEMSELVES??? LOL

Someday there will only be traders and investors left. It will be like a game of hot-potato with the big ticket items.

Putting an ad in EU is like putting an ad in a small town newspaper. A few thousand people a month will see it at most. That's why there are no ads on the ad screens anymore. Those companies that were doing it only let themselves get robbed once.

... and where do you think the investors and traders go without the customers... will they stand around CP trying to trade a BP to an Aurli??

LOL

 

[kosmos]

.

Someday there will only be traders and investors left. It will be like a game of hot-potato with the big ticket items.

that day has already come in my opinion.

 

[Harmony.]

well you are clearly hunting above your level, even without you going into details that can easily be seen in your initial post. So if you changed that your returns would be a lot better.

On the other hand even if you did become more Eco, MA still takes too many peds from us, i hope they come to their senses and see that taking a few ped from a lot of people is better in the long run then takeing a lot of ped from few people.

 

[PrincessBoy]

Aurlis not looting well for me

why oh why.. 100 USD a day is just crap


Think ill just start using EU to chat

 

[-Eric-]

so you finally realized GG .....come up to CND and find out what u will spend per hour there

 

[valentin]

As Xen mentioned, it's better to count the number of mobs killed rather than count the number of PED spent.

So, the "you don't hunt long enough", "you hunt above your level" and "you are not using eco gear" still applies.


Some

Its not all about eco its also MA:s nerfs back in 2006 i allways got a global after about 50-55 killed argos nowdays i getting a global after 1.3k killed argos.
Like the corns back in 2006 i got a global after 70-80 killed nowdays after about 2k killed corns.

So MA has a big part in it.

 

[LeWolf86]

Well Im not one to jump on any band wagons... but to OP.

1. What are you hunting, whats your gear setup? Is it possible for you to make cuts in your setup to make it more efficient?
(I use to hunt argos in ghost cause I liked being protected when I over pulled, or just didn't want to pay attention, was awesome, but added extra decay I didn't need)

2. Look at Strash log in mining area.... he dug himself 6-8k I believe into the RED.... he eventually over time dug himself out... but it was persistant and he did some big runs. He cycled loads of PED.

3. Is the thing your hunting have shit loot? I understand not from experience but from word o mouth that steelbird loot is like dirty toilet paper... only TT machine would take it.

4. This is game/experience w/e is what you make of it. Some people play it strictly for business, and try to earn cash through other avenues then the tradional ones.... other people play it for fun.... others for social reasons.... Whatever it is... you make what you make of it.

5. If your feeling robbed... take a break. If you went to prison and you always got !!!!! in the library... would you go back every day? Nah... you'd take a break.... and maybe check back later when the guy has moved on or had his fill.




I use to craft, and I got serious for a bit.... well as serious as Ive ever been, chipping to click up to X1's. I mostly focused on APIS, and X1, Scrof, P5a and such.... but these are not cheap things to click.... eventually I took some losses and never really had enough PED to click these items seriously due to high TT requirements and waiting periods for sales.

I stopped... I took a break and traded... I came back, and now I mine and hunt a wee bit. Nothing serious, but its a step back, because as thrilling as it was to play with big items... it also cost a lot... and more then I wanted to spend/risk at the time.


Not everyone can win in this game..... thats the fact of life. The way the economy is setup somebody will have to take the risk with MA and the TT return. Miners can profit off MU, and sell to crafters, who can hopefully make a more valueable product and pocket the MU, but their product needs to be sold to hunters, and usually lower level hunters who hunt stuff that generally loots a lot of TT food... and then they sell that to crafters who use TT food to craft near useless products and take the risk with TT and MA.

 

[Torschen]

*yawn*

Yes, my loots past weeks have been worse than previous weeks. Yes *I* am robbed presently. Looks like many others too. Tomorrow may tell otherwise.

*yawn* No, I'm not panicking, should I?

 

[Hope WolfGang]

hunt end game mobs

 

[falkao]

..
So my total of each run is: (ammo_left+loot*MU)-(ammo_bought+decay)=total
..

My average return is 78.8%

You should not include MU when calculating Return rate

 

[PopFuzz]

My loots been turned down to the 80% tt level as well since the middle of august. About 50K cycled mining, 50K cycled crafting and 32K peds hunting. I think my previous worst 80% tt loosing phase was 90K cycled so this 132K is a new record for me. I can say it blows when the bad loots cycles hit, but the game usually turns back to hot eventually, im crossing my fingers it will be sooner then later and the 13K peds lost above expected 90% tt return comes back in a fat uber (thats happened to me in previous 80% tt loot phases).

Long term I hope they can push loot up to 95%TT I think it would keep way more players playing and depositing then it does now.

 

[smoothee]

MA is stuck in bind.

The problem lies in that MA has spent all their cash on stupid things. Instead of returning it in loot, they bought a cumbersome high end fps graphic engine, threw tones away trying to start a bank and go public, expanded their workforce well beyond what they game should need, sold off countless income streams for short term cash, bought a god damn castle IRL, continue to fail at public relations, fail to return the game to its original state before the graphic update, continue to plauge the game with horrible bugs that cost the player base countless peds each update, etc etc etc.

There it is. If MA makes bad decisions over and over again then the company will die, as would any other company. After all this time and all the people and evidence telling them, they still have not learned the only important thing they need to know. The one thing... ONE.

What kind of graphics do the old-time slot machines have? NONE, ZERO. They have 3 spinning wheels with fruit drawn on them. Yet it's still morbidly exciting to watch those damn wheels spin. If a casino advertises the "loosest slots in Vegas" and says they're giving 97% back(or whatever), and the Nevada Gaming Board ACTUALLY VERIFIES THIS(they do), then it becomes a comfortable and fun situation. You know the rules. This is how PE used to be. They ran a tight ship. It was a small company with little overhead. The graphics were crap but nobody cared because it was just like the slot machine. The fun of the game was in no way derived from the graphics, and IT WAS FUN.

MA: Clean up bugs, implement all the old professions and then FIRE THREE QUARTERS OF YOUR STAFF. WE DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR "INNOVATION". WE DO NOT WANT INDUSTRY LEADERSHIP. Your operating cost will fall dramatically, you give that back to your players, it will attract more players because people are having fun again and then your company will grow.

tl;dr: MA, you've gotten too big for your britches.

 

[Adamas]

I personally feel the change in loot over the last year. I'm really sick of it and dont play much anymore.
I used to deposit at least $200-$400 a month and it lasted a good amount of time. But the returns got smaller and smaller.
I havn't deposited in 4 months now, play even less and I'm still unhappy.

It is clear to me that things are getting bad for most people and it is driving them away. So due to bad returns MA went from making $2k+ a year from me to now making close to 0. Not a smart move in my opinion.

And I think in the first 8 months of this year I lost enough money to buy 15 YEARS OF WOW SUBSCRIPTIONS. The cost/enjoyment level of the entropia universe is getting to high. If the loot/balance system was like this when I joined EU 3.5 years ago I wouldn't have played for more then a few months..... And i'm sure that is what happens to most noobs these days.

 

[ZAN ZAN]

Its all because I stopped hunting and feeding the loot guahahahaha.

But on a serious note, and in one sentence - I really have no idea how an "average" hunter with an "average" budget can survive these days in EU.

 

[nutrageti]

Joining the complaining here...can't say I'm a big spender(quite the opposite) but no matter what I hunt, from puny mobs to small trox) loot sucks. Usually I was happy with 85-90% returns but now I'm getting 50-60% and this has been going on for more than a few months. Mining has been somewhat better for me with 85%~ but donno how much I like this trend. Will deposit for oil for vtol for new planets but that's about it in this period. If 90% of the players stopped depositing for a month, would ma take a look at thsi problem?

 

[RedThothCrowley]

I for one do not feel robbed. I choose to play or not play based on the fun level, and whether or not I can afford said fun. Yes, my loot sucks, like everyone else, but it ALWAYS has. I have never had a period of good loot lasting longer than 1 or 2 hunts, and I have had periods of bad loot lasting 40+ hunts. But the thing is, I enjoy myself. And when I stop enjoying myself, I take a break (the most recent one was a year). Am I being robbed? No. I am playing within my means and losing what I can afford to lose.

 

[Smoerble]

If actions in game would be cheaper, I would spend more time and I know, I would spend more PEDs... I could do more, so I have more fun, so I am happy to pay for my fun. I would travel to RT, ND and CP for each event, if a trip would cost 5 PEDs... but as it's so much, I stay where I am.

If I knew, I would pay 1 US$/hour when hunting, I would spend my entire game time hunting... but I know, it might cost me 10 or even 20 US$ per hour... and there's not enough for for that, sorry.

 

[RedThothCrowley]

If actions in game would be cheaper, I would spend more time and I know, I would spend more PEDs... I could do more, so I have more fun, so I am happy to pay for my fun. I would travel to RT, ND and CP for each event, if a trip would cost 5 PEDs... but as it's so much, I stay where I am.

If I knew, I would pay 1 US$/hour when hunting, I would spend my entire game time hunting... but I know, it might cost me 10 or even 20 US$ per hour... and there's not enough for for that, sorry.

You can pay 1 USD an hour for low level hunting. As I said, if we play within our means, we are not being robbed. If you want to do the more expensive hunting when you do not have the money for it. you are robbing yourself. I don't hunt at a high level, and only occasionally a "mid" level and my finances to play the game work out just fine.

It is not robbery when you make a choice.