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[Ido]

I highly doubt there are enough people in all of Calypso to purchase $6 million dollars worth of deeds.

~Danimal

I don't think there currently is the potential in the population to buy 60,000,000 PED worth of anything.. however after 5th, 12th or 19th December once the Potential for 3-4 ROI proves itself i dont see any problem with the current player base finding enough funds to purchase all of the deeds ...

either that or i can see some external investor like a virtual million-er like idk Anshe Chung from second like alike come and sweep half of OUR deeds...

I rather see the money go to participating citizens of Calypso rather than some 3rd party

Ido

 

[ermik]

seing how people sell off their stuff they use on a daily basis just to buy deeds make me think.

will we all just sit with our deeds and no peds to play for? im sure that would affect revenue in a highly non attractive manner.

revenue is created when ppl do their day to day things in entropia, generating decay.

if we stop doing that, revenue will scare the hell out of any external investor....

everyone wants a deed , but they expect someone else to generate the revenue.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

seing how people sell off their stuff they use on a daily basis just to buy deeds make me think.

will we all just sit with our deeds and no peds to play for? im sure that would affect revenue in a highly non attractive manner.

Someone selling = Someone buying.

 

[safara]

seing how people sell off their stuff they use on a daily basis just to buy deeds make me think.

will we all just sit with our deeds and no peds to play for? im sure that would affect revenue in a highly non attractive manner.

revenue is created when ppl do their day to day things in entropia, generating decay.

if we stop doing that, revenue will scare the hell out of any external investor....

everyone wants a deed , but they expect someone else to generate the revenue.

Heehee - I thought exactly the same thing.

Everyone sells off their higher gear to buy deeds - and then sits back expecting the new recruits from the resultant marketing to pay the weekly dividend....

But, then someone has to buy the gear being sold etc etc

I suppose some well heeled players may see the deeds as being like a planet wide LA - Buy 200k worth and no upkeap required...

But there are not many of them - most will be people that have under 10 deeds and just use the proceeds to supplement their ammo costs etc.

Or something like that.

 

[ermik]

Someone selling = Someone buying.

ofcourse, but many also tt stuff they cant sell.

but i hope im wrong

 

[mastermesh]

ofcourse, but many also tt stuff they cant sell.

but i hope im wrong

TT = recycle. Give those that do play more winnings in loot so they want to deposit more and more and feed the income on the deeds.

 

[billairboy]

I think the most of us buying the land deeds will the money we get to finance our ingame playing. By buying some deeds we can get some weekly peds to playing with, so even if we don't have enough to make withdrawals, we can deposit less and still play with the same peds.

 

[remontoire]

seing how people sell off their stuff they use on a daily basis just to buy deeds make me think.

will we all just sit with our deeds and no peds to play for? im sure that would affect revenue in a highly non attractive manner.

revenue is created when ppl do their day to day things in entropia, generating decay.

if we stop doing that, revenue will scare the hell out of any external investor....

everyone wants a deed , but they expect someone else to generate the revenue.

Yes. And I have been saying this over and over again in these threads - for the deeds to have value and bring returns, everybody needs to continue playing as much as they have so far. No letup or your deed will not bring you back those 30%. If you sold off that expensive but eco amp and bought deeds - tough shit. Now you gotta hunt less eco. Because if the revenue drops, so does the value and returns on your deeds.

I will also repost the cost per minute figures should anybody have the illusion that any infliux of newbies from advertising will replace even not yet mid level hunters in the short term:

• Sollomate Olapo - 1.48 PEC/sec
• Isis CB5 - 1.62 PEC/sec
• Svempa S40 - 1.73 PEC/sec
• Riker UL3 - 4.56 PEC/sec
• Isis Cb19 - 8.18 PEC/sec
• Isis LR32 - 9.94 PEC/sec
• Geotrek Apis - 14.12 PEC/sec

You will need 10 new players that take up Opalo per 1 Apis shooter dropping their's, and chances are good the Apis hunter was shooting for more minutes per day anyways, so you need more. And unless one in every five reaches level 20 and starts to use lr32, revenue will grow very slowly.

 

[Thark]

kinda drunk right now but i'll give it a shot:

So you got two concerns:

1.) People quit and the newbes just won't cut it.
2.) People stoping to generate decay or at least slowing down.


Well 1.) is answered pretty quick and has in my opinion nothing to do with the deeds themselves. After all why would the deeds make people wanna hunt less? People have been quiting since PE started and everytime someone old/rich quit or a couple of people quit everyone was worried. Nothing never really happened and at least now MA is going to try and to some advertising so more people join more quickly. For me: no biggie.

2.) Why would people stop generating decay? Cuz they suddenly don't enjoy PE? Cuz because of the deeds there is no more "need" for them to hunt? Like it has ever been about making money, and if they did it would even be better for the deed holders for them not to continue . Sure a couple of people might be trying to sell their stuff to buy deeds but someone has to buy that stuff too. And if they buy it they are planing on using it, otherwise they would just buy deeds. And why would midlevel guys (apis lvl) stop hunting because of a couple of deeds? If anything, it would be good for MA and the cycled peds if more peds were ingame, cuz someone deposited to buy a bunch of deeds and hunt off of the weekly returns. I just don't see why 60mil ped more igame (or at least a portion of that) would be a bad thing.

but i guess i'm drunk, and i just went WAY past my subway station so i'll just send this and get on my way back. hrmpf


thark

 

[Captain Jack]

seing how people sell off their stuff they use on a daily basis just to buy deeds make me think.

will we all just sit with our deeds and no peds to play for? im sure that would affect revenue in a highly non attractive manner.

revenue is created when ppl do their day to day things in entropia, generating decay.

if we stop doing that, revenue will scare the hell out of any external investor....

everyone wants a deed , but they expect someone else to generate the revenue.

I am just clearing my storage. I tend to have way too much in storage at a time. I regularly use (L) weapons, and I will continue to do so, as it does not require significant ped to be tied up. You see me selling out because I'm liquidating peds - though I'm still continuing to play just as actively as before.
I believe many other players are doing the same thing. Maybe some choose to sell their DOA and keep their MM (or vice versa), or downgrade from shadow to angel, but overall I think most of us are still going to be at least 80% as active as before.
Furthermore, some people are probably going to liquidate RL assets to purchase shares with money which would not otherwise be deposited.

 

[mastermesh]

even if the roi is low in the first year, over time it will grow,assuming MA does not go under completely... because there are only so many deeds... people that buy them will stick around, which means they will deposit later and use em to do other things in game. I see the deeds as a way to just have a few more peds on months I won't deposit, and suspect it's the same with others...

 

[Sidney]

Oooooo I just thought about something to spice up your calculation discusion.

I remember a press release in real life that stated FPC pp Calypso paying MA a big amount of money, what resulted in a contract that pp FPC Calypso would get a higher % of gross revenue of what the calypso planet makes.
This was done in FPC time before SEE ,the contract should still be operational as it has nothing to do with take overs and pp calypso is still a compagny of its own within MA group.

So I guess u all need to calculate evryting all over again.

Thought lets throw a bone in the big calc. fight that is going on here allready. LOL

 

[wizzszz]

If you sold off that expensive but eco amp and bought deeds - tough shit. Now you gotta hunt less eco. Because if the revenue drops, so does the value and returns on your deeds.

It has been said before, but this seems to be a common misconception:

If you sold that eco amp, someone else bought it and will be using it - just because people sell stuff to eachother the revenue won't change.

 

[Serica]

Oooooo I just thought about something to spice up your calculation discusion.

I remember a press release in real life that stated FPC pp Calypso paying MA a big amount of money, what resulted in a contract that pp FPC Calypso would get a higher % of gross revenue of what the calypso planet makes.
This was done in FPC time before SEE ,the contract should still be operational as it has nothing to do with take overs and pp calypso is still a compagny of its own within MA group.

So I guess u all need to calculate evryting all over again.

Thought lets throw a bone in the big calc. fight that is going on here allready. LOL

Get your facts right before you try to spin conspiracy theories..

This info was released in the Jan-Jun2010 financial report:

..One of the company's current Planet Partner has signed a supplementary agreement with MindArk. The agreement entails that the Planet Partner will pay a cash amount and in exchange they will receive a higher future revenue share..

In the exact same report is confirmation of the ongoing sale of FPC to SDS/SEE:

The process, for MindArk's subsidiary First Planet Company, to sell all rights to the planet Calypso continues according to plan.

Not only was it not stated that the planet partner involved was SDS, but even if it was, it was part of the MA/SEE arrangements which have now fallen thru.

 

[remontoire]

It has been said before, but this seems to be a common misconception:

If you sold that eco amp, someone else bought it and will be using it - just because people sell stuff to eachother the revenue won't change.

Right, and just because you sold that uber armor, it doesn't mean you will be hunting any less and even if you did, whoever bought it will be hunting the same mobs, and just as much as you did. Back here in reality, in most cases people buying gear will continue to hunt as much as they did before, and people selling gear will be hunting less.

Which means that present auction trends indicate a crunch time in terms of ped turnover.

 

[tamlin]

even if the roi is low in the first year, over time it will grow,assuming MA does not go under completely...

Even if we run with that assumption, that statement is contrary to available evidence. The only available facts we have is what has been released in their annual statements, and that displays a trend not correlating with the hopes of growth.

While Kim did indeed state several months back that MA was again in the black (but then only since a few months back too, so at least the first quarter of 2011 they were - as most expected/knew - still bleeding), that was then. I also take anything MA or any rep. of them write with more than a pinch of salt, as history and available evidence displays that could be a reasonable precaution.

We will not know anything about 2011 until mid-2012, and can't draw any conclusions until mid-2013 (i.e. when they make public their annual financial statements).

That said, it will be interesting to see the development of this "unofficial stock market share". Will it split some time in the future?

 

[Viperstrike]

Wow this thread is still going, I haven't read past page 100 yet, but still wish to make investments into this as time progresses.

Instead of taking out a line of credit, I have decided that 50% of all hofs over 2k will go into buying deeds,'

eg 10k HoF = 5 Deeds, 2k HoF = 2 deeds, 3k HoF = 2 Deeds, I keep the change from rounding

I think it is a worthwhile investment, even though most are negative about it.

Trust in the Jan, David & Kim combo. JDK FTW !

A soc friend has already invested over 30k usd worth into this and is going for 50k I believe,
I am sure it will turn out fine.

 

[aridash]

Right, and just because you sold that uber armor, it doesn't mean you will be hunting any less and even if you did, whoever bought it will be hunting the same mobs, and just as much as you did. Back here in reality, in most cases people buying gear will continue to hunt as much as they did before, and people selling gear will be hunting less.

i really dont know how you can make such a claim, its pure specualtion. people selling gear will be hunting differently, is about all you can say. and why do you think people would sell their primary gear for the deeds? i might sell a Salamander harness i have in storage gathering space dust, but im not about to part with my Angel.

the *net* effect i believe with to stir and re-invigorate most players interest, increase activity, with parts coming out of storage which might hold prices down for 6 months, but after that price increases as people deposit more feeling they see a return (bugger, lost 300ped today... oh but ive got my dividend this morning, so not so bad).

put it this way, do you not think MA has thought of this and analysed the potential change on revenue?

 

[Ido]

Yes. And I have been saying this over and over again in these threads - for the deeds to have value and bring returns, everybody needs to continue playing as much as they have so far. No letup or your deed will not bring you back those 30%. If you sold off that expensive but eco amp and bought deeds - tough shit. Now you gotta hunt less eco. Because if the revenue drops, so does the value and returns on your deeds.

I will also repost the cost per minute figures should anybody have the illusion that any infliux of newbies from advertising will replace even not yet mid level hunters in the short term:

• Sollomate Olapo - 1.48 PEC/sec
• Isis CB5 - 1.62 PEC/sec
• Svempa S40 - 1.73 PEC/sec
• Riker UL3 - 4.56 PEC/sec
• Isis Cb19 - 8.18 PEC/sec
• Isis LR32 - 9.94 PEC/sec
• Geotrek Apis - 14.12 PEC/sec

You will need 10 new players that take up Opalo per 1 Apis shooter dropping their's, and chances are good the Apis hunter was shooting for more minutes per day anyways, so you need more. And unless one in every five reaches level 20 and starts to use lr32, revenue will grow very slowly.

Nice list but i think you calculated it wrong ..

and the right calculation is even more depressing:

I calculate gun decay times shots per minute

Sollomate Olapo - 1.48 PEC/sec          0.020 pec * 44 shots per minute = 0.880 pec per min
Isis CB5 - 1.62 PEC/sec			0.023 pec * 48 shots per minute = 1.104 pec per min
Svempa S40 - 1.73 PEC/sec		0.213 pec * 47 shots per minute = 10.011 pec per min
Riker UL3 - 4.56 PEC/sec		1.817 pec * 35 shots per minute = 63.595 pec per min
Isis Cb19 - 8.18 PEC/sec		2.815 pec * 50 shots per minute = 140.750 pec per min
Isis LR32 - 9.94 PEC/sec		3.119 pec * 37 shots per minute = 115.403 pec per min
Geotrek Apis - 14.12 PEC/sec	        2.987 pec * 53 shots per minute = 158.311 pec per min

In any case i don't think people will have an attitude

"I bought some deeds so now i dont have to play"

Instead they will enjoy THEIR game even more

Ido

 

[Thark]

Remontoire is right, Ido you forgot the ammo in your calc.
on top of that, his numbers are bigger

Thark

 

[ermik]

Remontoire is right, Ido you forgot the ammo in your calc.
on top of that, his numbers are bigger

Thark

ammo is not revenue , it goes back to the economy and loot pool....

not all decay is either , just part of it.

 

[Ido]

As i understand it all decay is revenue...

My numbers are more scary because the difference in decay generated by a noob player vs high skilled is much greater per minute.. so if we calculate how many newcomers must we have to replace 1 high skilled player to compensate for the loss of revenue ...

i hope you get my point

In any case this wont happen i was just pointing out an error in numbers.

Ido

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

As i understand it all decay is revenue...

They have said before that not all decay is counted in the revenue only part of it

(else the loot pool would be drained very quickly if people used more melee or high-decay-low-ammo guns)

 

[GoNi]

They have said before that not all decay is counted in the revenue only part of it

(else the loot pool would be drained very quickly if people used more melee or high-decay-low-ammo guns)

Well average return over time levels always around 85-90% so its only 10-15% from decay that is counted to revenue

 

[remontoire]

As i understand it all decay is revenue...

My numbers are more scary because the difference in decay generated by a noob player vs high skilled is much greater per minute.. so if we calculate how many newcomers must we have to replace 1 high skilled player to compensate for the loss of revenue ...

i hope you get my point

In any case this wont happen i was just pointing out an error in numbers.

Ido

I used the 'cost per minute' figure for simple pragmatical reasons:

• avoid endless discussions on what is 'decay'
• I think it is reasonably likely you pay a certain cut of your expenditure regardless of setup to MA
• realistically, everybody uses amps to some extent.

The point stands in either case though.

 

[SODERD]

just buy the damn shares and get on with it.

 

[Ido]

They have said before that not all decay is counted in the revenue only part of it

(else the loot pool would be drained very quickly if people used more melee or high-decay-low-ammo guns)

Where have they said this ? can you quote your source?

I understood all decay is counted as planet partner revenue + various other fees like shop tax or leaving the planet fee etc...

Ido

Q. How is the Planet Partner Gross Revenue calculated?
A. Planet Partner Gross Revenue is calculated and paid by MindArk to the Planet Partner, and includes avatar activity on Planet Calypso, along with the activity of Calypso avatars in Space and on other Entropia Universe planets. Avatar activity includes deterioration of items, as well as various other fees and avatar activities.

 

[Ionar]

Where have they said this ? can you quote your source?

I belive it is an old saying from Marco. It can be found here.

We take revenue from decay, we never stated that all decay is revenue though.

[EDIT - He doesn't say they don't take all decay, just that they have never stated that they do take all decay... Shifty bastard ]

 

[Thark]

Not really share related but:

I always thought revenue is this:

500mil Ped ingame on January 1st. , 100mil Ped put in over the year, 520 mil Ped ingame at the end of the year ->80mil Ped revenue? so 8mil$ to pay the Servers and People and what not. Didn't ever stop to think what part of my expenses goes into what i just thought when i loose some MA gets some. xD

Thark

 

[Joat]

Where have they said this ? can you quote your source?

I understood all decay is counted as planet partner revenue + various other fees like shop tax or leaving the planet fee etc...

Ido

I think the part that goes back to system and what is revenue is basicly
same no matter what (ordinary) weapons we use.
I also think that weapons like imkII are the ones that has a decay that
is very close to its revenue stream.

A old example I used couple of times, (not based on excisting weapons,
just to show what I mean) :
We have three weapons, one is LWT, one is BLP and one is a melee.
All three do exact same dmg, lets say 100, all three cost 1ped per interaction.

LWT has 40pec decay and 60pec ammo in the cost, 1ped,
BLP has 20pec decay and 80pec ammo in cost, 1ped,
Melee has 100pec decay and 0pec ammo in cost, 1ped.

If they take 10pec from decay as revenue stream, 90pec will go back
to the system.
It might look as the melee-weapon gives a higher revenue stream, but
that's only what we see due to myths and specualtions.