Calypso Land Deed Update

[Ludvig|MindArk]

awesome and awesome

However, how this announcement was worded, makes me think that MA has thought about selling their 'extra' 25% share for another $6mil in the future.

So it would be 50% deed holders, 25% MindArk, 25% Calypso? Because Calypso always needs enough money for development

 

[3-J]

or 50% MA 50% deed holders

ya same thing

 

[Talania]

...10 CLD could be one voting point, in the "owership section"

So you basicly are saying you have to be able to afford 10 CLD to vote. If you only own 1-9 CLD you are a sub-standard citizen of Calypso and can't vote.

 

[chevrons]

Bjorn if you agree with Jimmy's distribution, then:

The word "partner" needs to be omitted if referring to 25%

And words inserted "Gross Planet Revenue" is 25% to deedholders.

Becasue from a "partner" point of view the split is 50%/50% as clearly stated on your main website (and shown on my previous post).

Rick.

I agree with your interpretation of MA's statement. It's not just MA's website which defines the Partner Revenue as being after deducting MA's 50%, but their previous announcements have also done this. If MA now want to redefine their terms, they should say so.

The dividends being paid may conform to what everyone understands, but once again, MA's use of English has lead to confusion instead of clarification.

But these semantics distract from the real question - why don't CLD holders have the right to know how the Revenue is calculated?

 

[prism]

But these semantics distract from the real question - why don't CLD holders have the right to know how the Revenue is calculated?

Because they bought 6mil worth on a promise. Once the money was paid they lost all leverage.

 

[RickEngland]

I agree with your interpretation of MA's statement. It's not just MA's website which defines the Partner Revenue as being after deducting MA's 50%, but their previous announcements have also done this. If MA now want to redefine their terms, they should say so.

The dividends being paid may conform to what everyone understands, but once again, MA's use of English has lead to confusion instead of clarification.

But these semantics distract from the real question - why don't CLD holders have the right to know how the Revenue is calculated?

I was questioning my sanity last night after MA replied to Jimmy's post.

Above all this is the MOST IMPORTANT clarification MA can make. Why? Becasue if the management are confused with this wording, then what percentage of revenue are they applying to weekly dividend payments?

Look I'm not here to cause trouble, I am seriously concerned with Mindark's personal view of this calculation.

Questions:

Is Calypso Planet 'Partner' revenue 50% of total Calypso Revenue?
Is the above 50% split 50% to deed holders, 50% to Clayapso business?

If the answer to both those questions is "YES", then payment to deedholders is:

Gross Planet 'Partner' Revenue is 50% to deed holders
Gross Planet Revenue is 25% to deed holders.

Please confirm, more for my own sanity than anything.

thank you

Rick

 

[3-J]

to me, the main 'part' is that MA has released to 'us' what their gross earnings are.

we do well, they do well............

 

[remontoire]

Questions:

Is Calypso Planet 'Partner' revenue 50% of total Calypso Revenue?
Is the above 50% split 50% to deed holders, 50% to Clayapso business?

Obviously 'Gross Planet Partner revenue' for Calypso is not the same as '50% of Gross revenue for Calypso'. This is obvious because the sales of CLD, among other things like estates, are not part of the 'gross planet partner revenue'.

 

[Dan59]

CLD were sold for 1 CLD = 1 vote - as i understood it.
So sale is going to be canceled and repeated with new sale proposal?
Changing contract after that was signed eh ?
With changing rules we cud end with 1 CLD = 0 votes.

 

[XeroX2]

Well this is good news, im also glad they have been on top of things recently. Very uplifting.

yeah awesome news!

 

[Kimmi]

So you basicly are saying you have to be able to afford 10 CLD to vote. If you only own 1-9 CLD you are a sub-standard citizen of Calypso and can't vote.

No, I am absolutely not saying that. Please read again five times, still having problems please call apple support.... still dont understand shit... see me on skype.

 

[RickEngland]

I am slightly staggered that people have given a higher priority to the voting system, than to clarity of the revenue percentage due to deed holders.

If MA do not respond again then I guess the only option is to review the 6 monthly financial report (promised), and would expect that deed holders have received 50% of Planet Calypso Partner Revenue (not 25%)

I do like the idea of including everyone in the voting system to some degree (as everyone should have a voice). However lets not forget that the sales pitch for selling these deeds, entitled the holder to voting rights and citizenship.

So if you didn't buy them you didn't get voting rights. Now if everyone was that concerned with their power to vote, then the deeds would've have sold much quicker, and we wouldn't be in a situation now that one holder owns at least 41.66% of the deeds (25000/60000)

In the most simple terms possible "you had to buy your right to vote"...that was the sales pitch.

Are you now saying, errr we had a think about that...we've got a problem...lets put some news out there and see the response.

as a deed holder I would expect my vote to carry a good percentage of the intended split of voting power, but at the same time I would be happy for non deedholders to have a small voice.

As Kimmi is famous for saying "I didn't make the rules, MA did".

Rick

ps: do who what you think is fair for the voting system, I bought for revenue income.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

If MA do not respond again then I guess the only option is to review the 6 monthly financial report (promised), and would expect that deed holders have received 50% of Planet Calypso Partner Revenue (not 25%)

But Bjorn already confirmed how the split is done on page 2?

 

[RickEngland]

But Bjorn already confirmed how the split is done on page 2?

Yes he did respond Nighthawk, but I think Bjorn make a genuine mistake by including the word "Partner" in his statement.

Think about it, and tell me again if you think I'm wrong. Don't just add a snap answer really deeply look at the facts, because it would be nice to see some thought out views to this.

 

[Sidney]

Thanks for the response, Bjorn (and Miles). My mistake, my confusion was self-inflicted

Ah don't worry.
We all know that you aint that mart with understanding written down explanations and such.
LOL.

We forgive you. Gheheeehe

 

[Bjorn|MindArk]

I was questioning my sanity last night after MA replied to Jimmy's post.

Above all this is the MOST IMPORTANT clarification MA can make. Why? Becasue if the management are confused with this wording, then what percentage of revenue are they applying to weekly dividend payments?

Look I'm not here to cause trouble, I am seriously concerned with Mindark's personal view of this calculation.

Questions:

Is Calypso Planet 'Partner' revenue 50% of total Calypso Revenue?
Is the above 50% split 50% to deed holders, 50% to Clayapso business?

If the answer to both those questions is "YES", then payment to deedholders is:

Gross Planet 'Partner' Revenue is 50% to deed holders
Gross Planet Revenue is 25% to deed holders.

Please confirm, more for my own sanity than anything.

thank you

Rick

When writing the Calypso Land Deed Update announcement released yesterday, our goal was to state things as clearly as possible to avoid any confusion and to reassure participants that the revenue share received by Land Deed holders would never be diminished.

However, it appears that since the portion of the announcement related to revenue share used slightly different phrasing and terms than the original Calypso Land Deed announcments, some confusion has resulted--even if the different phrasings actually describe the same method of calculating deed revenue share.

To avoid any further confusion or misunderstandings, I have now updated yesterday's announcement with the following text:

We would like to take this opportunity to assure everyone that each of the existing Calypso Land Deeds will always receive 1/60000th of the 50% Planet Partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso, and this revenue share will never be diluted or reduced.​

which matches the phrasing used in the original Land Deed announcement-

Each Land Lot deed entitles the holder to a share of the 50% planet partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso. Payouts of revenue share dividends to deed holders will be made once per week, as opposed to once per year or once per month for many other investments!"​

Source- Become a Citizen of Planet Calypso

I have also added the following text to yesterday's announcement so that the way in which revenue is distributed is crystal clear-

Overview of Revenue Distribution

• 50% MindArk PE AB (Platform provider)
• 25% AR Universe AB (Planet Partner operating Calypso)
• 25% Calypso Land Deed Holders (each deed receives 1/60000 share)

Combining the second and third items in this overview (each 25%) represents the Planet Partner Gross Revenue referred to in earlier announcements.

 

[Killahbee]

When writing the Calypso Land Deed Update announcement released yesterday, our goal was to state things as clearly as possible to avoid any confusion and to reassure participants that the revenue share received by Land Deed holders would never be diminished.

However, it appears that since the phrasing of the portion related to revenue share used slightly different phrasing and terms than the original Calypso Land Deed announcments, some confusion has resulted, even if the different phrasing actually describe the same method of calculating deed revenue share.

To avoid any further confusion or misunderstandings, I have now updated yesterday's announcement with the following text:

We would like to take this opportunity to assure everyone that each of the existing Calypso Land Deeds will always receive 1/60000th of the 50% Planet Partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso, and this revenue share will never be diluted or reduced.​

which matches the phrasing used in the original Land Deed announcement-

Each Land Lot deed entitles the holder to a share of the 50% planet partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso. Payouts of revenue share dividends to deed holders will be made once per week, as opposed to once per year or once per month for many other investments!"​

Source- Become a Citizen of Planet Calypso

I have also added the following text to yesterday's announcement so that the way in which revenue is distributed is crystal clear-

Overview of Revenue Distribution

• 50% MindArk PE AB (Platform provider)
• 25% AR Universe AB (Planet Partner operating Calypso)
• 25% Calypso Land Deed Holders (each deed receives 1/60000 share)

Combining the second and third items in this overview (each 25%) represents the Planet Partner Gross Revenue referred to in earlier announcements.

If this doesn't clear things up for some people I don't know what else you can do!

 

[Quint]

We would like to take this opportunity to assure everyone that each of the existing Calypso Land Deeds will always receive 1/60000th of the 50% Planet Partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso, and this revenue share will never be diluted or reduced.​

Overview of Revenue Distribution

• 50% MindArk PE AB (Platform provider)
• 25% AR Universe AB (Planet Partner operating Calypso)
• 25% Calypso Land Deed Holders (each deed receives 1/60000 share)

Ok, now you confuse me... Please check the 2 bolded phrases above. So does each Calypso Land Deed receive 1/60000th share of the 25% of total amount of CLD holders or does each Calypso Land Deed receive 1/60000th share of 50% of Planet Partner Gross Revenue ?

Or am I overlooking sth ??

 

[RickEngland]

To avoid any further confusion or misunderstandings, I have now updated yesterday's announcement with the following text:

We would like to take this opportunity to assure everyone that each of the existing Calypso Land Deeds will always receive 1/60000th of the 50% Planet Partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso, and this revenue share will never be diluted or reduced.​

which matches the phrasing used in the original Land Deed announcement-

Each Land Lot deed entitles the holder to a share of the 50% planet partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso. Payouts of revenue share dividends to deed holders will be made once per week, as opposed to once per year or once per month for many other investments!"​

.

Bjorn, thank you kindly for your response.

To to clarify back, I am happy to forgo my original voting rights as a deed holder, so that you can implement a system that is "fair" for all the community. other holders of a large amount of deeds, may wish to express their own view.

Kind Regards

Rick of England.

 

[Quint]

If this doesn't clear things up for some people I don't know what else you can do!

Lol, OK then, I'll try to explain my question (see previous post) with some figures.

Let's say total revenue is 240 000 (peds/USD/EUR/whatever)

According to this :
•50% MindArk PE AB (Platform provider)
•25% AR Universe AB (Planet Partner operating Calypso)
•25% Calypso Land Deed Holders (each deed receives 1/60000 share)

50% = 120 000 goes to MindArk PE AB
25% = 60 000 goes to AR Universe AB
25% = 60 000 goes Calypso Land Deed Holders

So in this case, every Calypso Land Deed will receive 1.

But according to this :

We would like to take this opportunity to assure everyone that each of the existing Calypso Land Deeds will always receive 1/60000th of the 50% Planet Partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso

Each CLD will receive 1/60000th of the 50% Planet Partner Gross Revenue = 1/60000th of 120 000 = 2

Unless we should read "of the 50% Planet Partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso" as "50% of the Planet Partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso".

 

[dougkush]

Ok, now you confuse me... Please check the 2 bolded phrases above. So does each Calypso Land Deed receive 1/60000th share of the 25% of total amount of CLD holders or does each Calypso Land Deed receive 1/60000th share of 50% of Planet Partner Gross Revenue ?

Or am I overlooking sth ??

50% of PP Gross Revenue = 25% of Calypso Revenue

Think it as 50% goes to MA then 50% goes to PP but with CLD the PP gave up 50% of their own stake giving 25%. Therefore 50% of PP gross revenue, not 50% of calypso.

 

[Doer]

When i talked about voting systems for EU in the past, i suggested it would require a gold card to vote, thinking (as surely MA/whomever is) that that is one of the only ways to (mostly) prevent alts from voting. I would still prefer that system to this one (one vote per Deed), but perhaps that will be part of the consideration as they rethink that aspect.

Another, very MA-like option would be to introduce an "ID card" for voters that costs 100 ped for everyone who doesn't own a Calypso Land Deed, and give it free to every avatar holding a Deed.

I really don't know how MA hopes to attract quality new planet partners with the distribution of profits they offer. Calypso is at least already active, and able to cut their share in half (if that's what happened here) for an up-front infusion, but considering the start-up price for a new planet, the tiny kickback from MA makes it a very risky investment for would-be backers.

ETA: the promise to not dilute shares is very significant.

 

[remontoire]

Ok, now you confuse me... Please check the 2 bolded phrases above. So does each Calypso Land Deed receive 1/60000th share of the 25% of total amount of CLD holders or does each Calypso Land Deed receive 1/60000th share of 50% of Planet Partner Gross Revenue ?

Or am I overlooking sth ??

Yes, you are being confused by careless reading. Notice that in the first bolded part, there is "of 50% planet partner revenue" not "50% of planet partner revenue". Which are not the same thing.

 

[Jimmy B]

Each Land Lot deed entitles the holder to a share of the 50% planet partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso.

I think really it was this sentence from the land deed announcement that has caused some of the confusion. It led me to think that of the "Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso", the Planet Partner partner receives 50% of that. And the land deed owners receive a "share" of that 50%, and further information suggested that "share" was 50%.

So I, and I think Rick, took the "Gross Planet Partner revenue" phrase in the original post of this thread to mean 50% of the Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso. And we understood previously that 50% of that 50% would be paid to the 60000 land deeds.

But I think the new terminology, using "Gross Planet Partner revenue" to mean all revenue generated that is attributable to Calypso (of which the PP pays 50% to MA and 25% to the 60000 land deeds, retaining the remaining 25%), is indeed a better way to express it since "generated by Planet Calypso" could be easily misconstrued to mean "generated by activities on Calypso" which is not correct.

Anyway, thanks for the prompt clarifications.

 

[RickEngland]

Ok, now you confuse me... Please check the 2 bolded phrases above. So does each Calypso Land Deed receive 1/60000th share of the 25% of total amount of CLD holders or does each Calypso Land Deed receive 1/60000th share of 50% of Planet Partner Gross Revenue ?

Or am I overlooking sth ??

Mindark as the platform provider recieves 50% of "total" revenue from ALL planet partners. Unless they negotiated other terms, but forget that lets keep it simple.

SO A PLANET PARTNER ONLY EVER OWNS 50% OF ITS TOTAL REVENUE.

That measn there is 50% left of TOTAL revenue.

Mindark sold to deed holders 50% of their remaining 50% of planet Calypso. so it all depends which way you look at it.

Are you looking at it from the 'entire' planet view point or the planet 'partner' view point.

Clarity has now been provided 50% of the planet Partners revenue goes to deedholders.

Hope helps.

Rick.

 

[JoseMTacoral]

Although the full details of the forthcoming citizenship system are not yet finalized, one solution we are strongly considering is a political system that includes all Entropia Universe participants, with each avatar’s voting power calculated based on a formula that includes various factors such as: account age, deposits, estate ownership, number of land deeds, level of activity, etc. A properly constructed formula will allow us to create a citizenship system that prevents any single participant from gaining an excessive amount of voting power simply by owning a large number of Land Deeds or having deposited large sums. Full details about the voting power formula will be provided as the release of the citizenship system draws closer.
Originally Posted Here

Well done!!!!

 

[Killahbee]

Lol, OK then, I'll try to explain my question (see previous post) with some figures.

Let's say total revenue is 240 000 (peds/USD/EUR/whatever)

According to this :
•50% MindArk PE AB (Platform provider)
•25% AR Universe AB (Planet Partner operating Calypso)
•25% Calypso Land Deed Holders (each deed receives 1/60000 share)

50% = 120 000 goes to MindArk PE AB
25% = 60 000 goes to AR Universe AB
25% = 60 000 goes Calypso Land Deed Holders

So in this case, every Calypso Land Deed will receive 1.

But according to this :

We would like to take this opportunity to assure everyone that each of the existing Calypso Land Deeds will always receive 1/60000th of the 50% Planet Partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso

Each CLD will receive 1/60000th of the 50% Planet Partner Gross Revenue = 1/60000th of 120 000 = 2

Unless we should read "of the 50% Planet Partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso" as "50% of the Planet Partner Gross Revenue generated by Planet Calypso".

Normally
50%: Mindark
50%: Planet holder (MindArk in this case)

Now:
50: Mindark
25: Planet Holder
25: Deed Holders

So what they're saying is we(deed holders) receive 50% from the 50% that planet owners receive.

 

[SpikeBlack]

I really don't know how MA hopes to attract quality new planet partners with the distribution of profits they offer. Calypso is at least already active, and able to cut their share in half (if that's what happened here) for an up-front infusion, but considering the start-up price for a new planet, the tiny kickback from MA makes it a very risky investment for would-be backers.

25% from a Calypso doesn't hurt them that much as MA owns them and manages all the cash so the PED nevers gets converted to $ before the split. 25% from a PP and they'd lose half their income immediately.

 

[Torrentula81]

I'm new and don't understand fully how deeds work. Not asking about that. I am curious though is when people say 10 months from now start making profit over the cost of each deed, isn't that going to make the payouts even worse for the average player since my peds will have to help pay a deed owner and ma vs just ma? I'm trying to see the big picture. I mean its bad enough as is but later when 60k deeds are in the green isn't that going to hurt everyone's pockets? I have a feeling crap rolls down hill. Those payouts won't be coming out of their profit margins or partners as stated. In the end economy will suffer even more. Am I wrong?

I just woke up so maybe I'm lacking common sense at the moment.

 

[Wody]

I'm trying to see the big picture.

It's very simple, for the other planets, the profits go to MA and a planet partner. For calypso, there is no planet partner, so MA chooses to pay back a share of the profit to the calyso deed-owners. Since the profit before was already gone from ingame, there is no (extra) loss to players, there is a gain because some people will use the ped they get back to play and put it back in the game-economy.
So wether it takes months or years to get the 1000(+) ped back people paid for the deed doesn't matter cause the money was already gone. The only impact it had was that some people who bought/buy the deeds won't be using that ped to play, and since they are all sold, that impact has gone already too.