Question: Can I have some constructive feedback?

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

As most of you already know I run a multitude of services in the game, and they all revolve around the most valuable currency in this game, Trust. With CLD's removed in today's update, the ability to use them as an easily tradeable store of value is gone. While AUD's and AMD's still exist, they will probably be following CLD's in the near future, and if not their returns are what determines their value, and they don't make anywhere near what CLD's made on a Ped for Ped basis in dividends.

With that said, would you be more, or less open to using services such as mine or a new service specifically created to replace the functionality CLD's provided? In any P2P trade where someone is borrowing an item and puts up collateral, the borrower will most likely want to use something other than PED so the lender doesn't walk away with the money, likewise the Lender does not want the borrow to walk away with the item. Instead of the borrower giving the PED to the item owner, they would give it to a trusted 3rd party, and the lender would do the same with the item. This way Neither player has to worry about the other running off with the other's property. Because I am under higher scrutiny by the player base and held to a higher standard, I would have no motivation to steal either party's property as it would destroy my business, and if I get locked or banned, I would lose all of the money I have invested into my rental service items.


There are a few different ways I could create this service to allow for easier P2P lending, with some added safety compared to the system as it sits now without CLD's. Besides being a tradeable store of value, CLD's also were an investment that provided a return. My new service(s) could solve both of these problems Mandark's hastily implemented changes have created.

My goal is to serve the community as a whole as it always has been, whether you are a newber or uber, by providing other options and solutions to problems. Please keep the comments on topic and any criticism constructive. Anything inflammatory or derogatory will be reported.

 

[Mega]

If you were to die in your sleep tonight, what happens?

(dont worry I am not a soothsayer, sleep well)

 

[Katie Chalmers]

More parties, more chance to get fucked. Not a dig at you personally, but third parties generally.

Also all you have done is move the risk from your clients onto yourself, because I assume you are still providing collateral for these intermediate trades. Now old mate runs off with your money instead of your clients. Are you going to guarantee those lost PEDs as part of your service?

if you aren’t providing collateral and simply engaging in trust trades between the two parties then I think that is promoting bad trading habits. Do I trust trade? Yes, with certain people who I have a good reason to trust (you included). But I don’t advise others to trust those same people if they don’t have their own good reasons to do so.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

If you were to die in your sleep tonight, what happens?

(dont worry I am not a soothsayer, sleep well)

I have friends and family that will take care of my estate, sell off items, and repay any investors or players to who I am holding funds for. I have multiple plans in place to ensure everyone gets what is theirs. I want my mother to get everything I own If I were to pass to pay off her house so she can retire.

More parties, more chance to get fucked. Not a dig at you personally, but third parties generally.

Also all you have done is move the risk from your clients onto yourself, because I assume you are still providing collateral for these intermediate trades. Now old mate runs off with your money instead of your clients. Are you going to guarantee those lost PEDs as part of your service?

Yes, all my trades are guaranteed as part of my service, though it will be designed to hedge and limit that risk as much as possible. And me taking on the risk so the clients don't have to is the purpose, and how I earn a paycheck.

 

[messi91]

Peds are very very good colateral source and so are oils/minerals used them when I had to rent gear for events and works perfect for since 2013.
Mindark interest is to attract more liquidity ingame for activities and its amazing to see this step moving forward.
Player's interest is to have 0 risk and 0 money invested while adding extra pressure on Mindark to solve his problems and fill his pockets.
Before you take decisions ask yourself what's good for mindark in the first place to make more sense if its suitable for you, don't start the narrative whats good for your business.If there is no Mindark there is no you (sure at least in a sense of a business ingame) also viceversa is true but you must convince everyone to quit in the same day, not gonna happen in the next 20 years.If they do well, you might do well too.
No I don't support a service for lending items with 0 risk.I want players to put their money where their mouth is and have risk for a potential reward.I want them to desire items , to have skin into the game, to have repercussion on their pedcard if they leave.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Yes, all my trades are guaranteed as part of my service, though it will be designed to hedge and limit that risk as much as possible. And me taking on the risk so the clients don't have to is the purpose, and how I earn a paycheck.

So you are essentially selling scam insurance?

all I can say is yikes but good luck. Also I hope this will be funded separately from your rental fund? I don’t know about other investors but I would be quite alarmed at the potential exposure this would bring.

 

[Yazuki]

I don't see how this solves the issue of the borrower running off with the gun because they still need to receive it in the end to actually use it if they're renting it.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

Peds are very very good colateral source and so are oils/minerals used them when I had to rent gear for events and works perfect for since 2013.
Mindark interest is to attract more liquidity ingame for activities and its amazing to see this step moving forward.
Player's interest is to have 0 risk and 0 money invested while adding extra pressure on Mindark to solve his problems and fill his pockets.
Before you take decisions ask yourself what's good for mindark in the first place to make more sense if its suitable for you, don't start the narrative whats good for your business.If there is no Mindark there is no you (sure at least in a sense of a business ingame) also viceversa is true but you must convince everyone to quit in the same day, not gonna happen in the next 20 years.If they do well, you might do well too.
No I don't support a service for lending items with 0 risk.I want players to put their money where their mouth is and have risk for a potential reward.I want them to desire items , to have skin into the game, to have repercussion on their pedcard if they leave.

Player's won't have 0 risk and 0 money invested.

So you are essentially selling scam insurance?

all I can say is yikes but good luck. Also I hope this will be funded separately from your rental fund? I don’t know about other investors but I would be quite alarmed at the potential exposure this would bring.

I think there is a misunderstanding of the goal and function of the service. Yes, I am selling an insurance of sorts against getting scammed, that is the purpose of using a Trusted 3rd Party. As well as providing other functions, like allowing a player to borrow money from a friend even when their collateral is worth way more than what they need. Example. They need 20k ped, but their item is worth 50k Ped. They give me the item, their friend gives them the 20k. To get their item back they need to repay the 20k, if they don't then the item is sold, the 20k is paid back to the lender, and the remainder is refunded to the borrower. There are other ways the system can be utilized.

I don't see how this solves the issue of the borrower running off with the gun because they still need to receive it in the end to actually use it if they're renting it.

It doesn't solve the issue, there never was a solution, collateral is the only way to offset it. But deeds were a good way to have collateral because they also earned income and were not super liquid. Oils and other things are a good alternative but they are almost as bad as ped because of how liquid they are. I am creating a hedge for both parties where trusting the other to not run off with stuff can be an issue. The borrower puts up MORE than an item is worth, earning the trust of the lender because they will be less likely to run off with the item if it costs more than it's value to do so. And the borrower doesn't have to worry about the lender running away with the collateral because it will be with me, so they know that they will get it back upon returning the item.

There have been times with my rental service where I have seen someone in the market trying to buy items that I have out for rent. We come to terms on rental price etc., and when it comes to collateral they get upset that I require more than market value and they argue and debate how what I am asking is unfair, likely because they planned on keeping the item rather than just wanting to rent it.
I have had similar situations where people have tried to "dump" items they couldn't sell trying to get top dollar in collateral value to rent an item that is easy to sell on the market.

I am offering an alternative solution to those two types of problems for P2P interactions, because my whole purpose is to be that person you can go to and trust, and not have to worry about whether I might run off with stuff. I have too much invested to break that trust and run off. My reputation is the lifeblood of my gameplay and services.

And this would be a separate service from my rental service, and investment fund.

 

[RickEngland]

I've borrowed items a few times where I've given collateral in deeds just to test an item, often more deed value than I thought the item was worth. But hey, I took the chance and traded back fine.

Point is risk is subjective. It's not always the lender taking more risk.

Generally im not that interested in services, and I tend to stay away from in game funds. I simply prefer to own deeds myself and buy items I want to use. If I can't get an item i'm after, so be it.

Players will find other ways to rent, or lend for those that look for such services.

Rick

 

[JohnCapital]

Read my sig.

If that's how you run your biz, then the collateral you ask for is your choice. CLD, or adrenal, doesn't matter, so long as both parties agree and understand the potential risks.

 

[messi91]

Player's won't have 0 risk and 0 money invested.

Their interest within the game, they (the players want no risk when it comes to rental or whatever) what im typing and what you understand.I don't care about your business, I talk game concept and how I see things moving into the game from outside of my interest, your interest or someone else's.I am detached from the subject.I look at whats happening from the game and I position myself where I can look at the greater picture not whats my investment or my take to the situation.I care about mindark and their future not about certain individuals in the game whatever is their name.
If their approach is to collect more money from something I am happy to see that.I will adjust myself to their position.I don't center myself towards what I want and I expect Mindark to change their plans to my needs which in a way its what you do or at least that's the feeling I get.

 

[Mega]

Their interest within the game, they (the players want no risk when it comes to rental or whatever) what im typing and what you understand.I don't care about your business, I talk game concept and how I see things moving into the game from outside of my interest, your interest or someone else's.I am detached from the subject.I look at whats happening from the game and I position myself where I can look at the greater picture not whats my investment or my take to the situation.I care about mindark and their future not about certain individuals in the game whatever is their name.
If their approach is to collect more money from something I am happy to see that.I will adjust myself to their position.I don't center myself towards what I want and I expect Mindark to change their plans to my needs which in a way its what you do or at least that's the feeling I get.

Nine and 1/2 years me and many longtime quit players have put up with reading your 'informative' posts.

Can't you just ... stop.

Mindark wont stop you, however eventually they may have to decide to.


One thing is for sure 'Mr 350 Knifefighter', I will say 'I Told You So'

And for the rest of you, enjoy your and be mindful of where you buy it!

 

[PengWinz]

We have plenty of animal oil, res, anything that can be used as collat. If you are trading with someone to try something out and cant trust them with thousands of ped of eye and liver oil. Then thats a bigger probelm then CLDs for collat. We will adapt. Nanocubes have no MU

 

[Sulje]

Rental service is not that important to the game to dedicate resources.

Collateral can be peds?

 

[tBANNA]

Yes, all my trades are guaranteed as part of my service, though it will be designed to hedge and limit that risk as much as possible. And me taking on the risk so the clients don't have to is the purpose, and how I earn a paycheck.

1. the game is not designed to be used as a rental platform, nor will be as MA stated already
2. they dont encourage any trades beside the final trade, that's why u wont see them judging scamming's, police does that, they just comply if is the case
3. pay to play is either u invest something in or u make income slowly but for the same outcome ...to pay something to play... and all at a risk that's stated
................................................................
so if is any service around is a p2p business, and if MA is doing their changes they act in the game's interest

you and your business are just in the way, deal with it, adapt or die...... u have your purpose so .. take that risk and move on

noting happened here.

......................
l.e. i dont understand tho why ppl make polls whit specific question to serve their own interest, u can put there a 4.th answer, i dont care to vote it.

 

[atomicstorm]

Nine and 1/2 years me and many longtime quit players have put up with reading your 'informative' posts.

Can't you just ... stop.

Mindark wont stop you, however eventually they may have to decide to.


One thing is for sure 'Mr 350 Knifefighter', I will say 'I Told You So'

And for the rest of you, enjoy your and be mindful of where you buy it!

Messi has faults but I fail to see how his quoted post was problematic.

 

[mastermesh]

Deed collateral is gone or going soon. All trades are final. Stock market sucks due to covid. Cash out and buy some US savings bonds already. At least then value will double in 20 years so you can give it to your mom to help pay off the house.... Then you can get in to more healthy in real life hobbies instead of staring at this abyssal virtual world waiting for a trade partner to log in when they are on their schedule instead of yours... All that wait time and time here in forum could go to more useful things like visiting aging relatives, working out, renewing old hobbies, passions and real in person friendships...

 

[Thorns Rose]

There are many services and issues that are tanking EU.

Macros and botting and rental services and EP4's and all which stop progress in the game.

I know is quick money for many but is hampering efforts and attitudes and morale, especially during events.

 

[Legends]

If it's too easy and secure to rent good hunting gear, then fewer people will have an incentive to go grind their own, and that hurts cycling/turnover in the game, and by extension, MA revenue. This is why MA has already stated (I think 3 times now) that THERE IS NO PLAN TO IMPLEMENT A RENTAL SYSTEM IN ENTROPIA.

I see what just happened (moving CLDs to the Exchange) as a warning shot to guys like you; expect more of that in the future.

It is in MA's interest for people to want those items, but it is not in their interest for them to be able to just rent them, so if there's too much of that going on, they will clamp down on it somehow.

 

[Hego Damask]

With CLD's removed in today's update, the ability to use them as an easily tradeable store of value is gone.

In any P2P trade where someone is borrowing an item and puts up collateral, the borrower will most likely want to use something other than PED

So CLD out, and as i cant get CLD now as colleteral to use them to make tessellated pavement floor in my apartment, i will need your service now.
I hope you have good decorations to loan at least.

Renter gives stuff, gets colleteral, nothing you can do that makes it more safe, including you as third party just adds unnecessary extra risk.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

There seems to be a misconception about the purpose of this post. I am not worried about the rental service, or about collateral from renters not being able to use CLDs anymore, Most people use their item, ped, and I do accept oils and stuff like messi said. This is thread is not about my rental service, this would be a different separate service. I am asking because OTHER players do use deeds and such, and the complaints on the forums about not having the ability to use them I thought I might be able to offer a service to fill the void that CLDs left behind.

And my service DOES NOT work against what is good for MA. It offers the ability for player to use items that might otherwise not be available to them. Some of the items I own only have a few copies in game, like my Nano Katana. I only know of 3 including mine. It is a Longsword that you can max at level 23 and mine is tier 8 and it does 59 dps before enhancers or amps. It is a great weapon for skilling melee and comes out with a nice 65% efficiency when all is said and done. Giving someone the ability to rent that allows them to skill faster, cycle more, and have move up in the game on to bigger better weapons if they so desire. That benefits MA.
And I do change and adapt to things. Originally my rental service was designed to give the common man the ability to compete with the ubers on a more even ground because I was acquiring competition winning weapons for different categories. When they got rid of the categories, I changed the structure and design of the service to fit the new game meta.

People who invest in my rental service fund are putting money in the game, they are just choosing to have access to a bunch of various items instead of just one or two if they bought them for themselves. This also helps MA. In some cases people have put more money into the game just to be able to rent more items or invest in my rental service because it is something that they like and provides a benefit to them. They use dividends to hunt more, or get more shares to be able to rent more items.

The system I have created is not like everyone else's. I could easily run the service and not share any of the income, but I am not greedy, and I enjoy helping people. I try to teach newer players about bankroll management and how to play economically. I try to give people unbiased answers to the best of my ability. I will tell people that my service is not for them, and that I think they should spend their money on something else instead of investing in me or renting from me because they have better options.

I just wanted some feedback on how I could possibly help people in a different way, building upon what I have already.

 

[Hego Damask]

I am asking because OTHER players do use deeds and such, and the complaints on the forums about not having the ability to use them I thought I might be able to offer a service to fill the void that CLDs left behind.

The only thing you can offer, that would be interesting for somebody who loans his stuff, to somebody who cant pay colleteral, is providing the colleteral instead of him.

But that would be crazy from your side to take all the risk for a few peds, and obviously you wont do, unless you also get sufficient colleteral.
If you get sufficient colleteral, than the renter and loaner can do this loan without you involved as a third party.

Unless the loaner already have an item at your service.
Than providing the colleteral instead of him is YOUR interest, to avoid loosing the item from your offering because he ask it back to use as colleteral.
So having you as a third party is only benefit you.

So i dont really see how it is a service, instead of only your own benefit.

 

[Adrian09]

Cld are land deeds created to generate income etc, their functionality hasnt changed, it just got better, my point of view allowing to lowest budget players to own some of, so, as deeds been used for collateral been a way of ppl to play with. Nothing has changed, ur rental sistem will work same as before, just, ppl got to find other colateral than deeds. Quite nothing has changed. More than that, people who own cld could just sell and use peds for collateral, of course, they wont earn divicences and be able to rent stuff at same time, but, guess they got to take some decisions.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

So i dont really see how it is a service, instead of only your own benefit.

Because you can only see the service as if you were running it, and as such you attribute my actions and motivations as if they were your own, and from your comments it seems you lack the capacity of acting in ways that are not purely self-serving. This is psychological fact of life that when we interpret others actions, we by default use our own motivations and ways of doing things as the other persons motivations. Just like how we by default when reading text only, interpret it with negative connotations whether it is negative or not. ( I am not accusing you of anything, I am just explaining the psychological behavior as to why you don't see how it is a service. If we sat down and had a long conversation and I explained my idea further and answered, you might change your mind)

Cld are land deeds created to generate income etc, their functionality hasnt changed, it just got better, my point of view allowing to lowest budget players to own some of, so, as deeds been used for collateral been a way of ppl to play with. Nothing has changed, ur rental sistem will work same as before, just, ppl got to find other colateral than deeds. Quite nothing has changed. More than that, people who own cld could just sell and use peds for collateral, of course, they wont earn divicences and be able to rent stuff at same time, but, guess they got to take some decisions.

From your point of you it got better, from other points of view it didn't, and I am not the only person to share that viewpoint. And I set my rental service fund shares at 1k ped to allow players to get CLD+ level of income for their investment at a lower barrier to entry. So players can earn dividends on their collateral. They get to have their cake and eat it too. Because you can easily equate what happened to CLDs a similar risk to investing in my fund. CLDs had a value of 0 ped. If your account got locked or banned, mindark would not give you 3k ped for them. They only pay out the tt value of items on your account, and only if it comes out to more than 1000 PED to meet their minimum withdrawal threshold.

My rental system is unaffected by this for the exact reasons people are saying it is affected by this, people still have to put up collateral for the trades. To restate, this post was about making a new service for a new type of client, the ones that trade frequently with friends or soc mates, but now because CLDs are not tradeable, it might be harder to make even or semi-even collateralized trades. If the borrow wanted to use an item or get ped from a friend and the only thing they had to offer as collateral was worth way more than the amount they wish to borrow, and the person lending doesn't have or does not want to put up the difference to make it even, that is where I step in and make it possible for the transaction to happen, among other types of trades.

It is a niche customer base. Just like how my box opening service was niche, but while it was not used by the larger player base, there WAS sufficient demand for it for me to run it and open boxes for others for years. I largely stopped offering it, because of the Rare token drops. I did not want to compensate players for a rare token that I might not be able to use for years if ever, and while some players might not care about the rare tokens, I felt bad about possibly getting them. In fact I did get one while opening some boxes for someone, I felt horrible about it, even though they knew and agreed ahead of time that if one dropped they would not get anything other than it's TT value, neither of us expected one to drop but I had to put that clause in the agreement just in case. I did give them a little extra for it but nothing near what people typically calculate their value to be when traded in for an item.

Edit: This poll is a good example. The majority of players have no need or desire to use this service or similar, and that is okay, this is not for them. But some players said yes, some said they are open to the possibility. Some just don't care, (an Option I will add or use the next time I make a poll, thank you for the CONSTRUCTIVE feedback @tBANNA )


Edit 2 :

so if is any service around is a p2p business, and if MA is doing their changes they act in the game's interest you and your business are just in the way, deal with it, adapt or die...... u have your purpose so .. take that risk and move on

So you are saying any business designed around direct player to player trade instead of using the AH or Exchange is going against the health of the game? If that is the case they should remove the trade player function and be done with it.

 

[Evey]

Option 1.
Deeds for items would be great. MA could make money out of it too, allowing players to purchase this option for a fee. Then, a players could give away their items and keep the deeds and reclaim if neccessary. Items should have in information panel a clear indication that a deed was created for that item and when a final trade is conducted, the deed should also be handed.

Option 2.
A new possibility in trade interface ingame to check if the trade is final or not. For trades that are not final, there could be an option to "revert" them. A history of not final trades should be of max 10 or something to prevent overuse...

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

Option 1.
Deeds for items would be great. MA could make money out of it too, allowing players to purchase this option for a fee. Then, a players could give away their items and keep the deeds and reclaim if neccessary. Items should have in information panel a clear indication that a deed was created for that item and when a final trade is conducted, the deed should also be handed.

Option 2.
A new possibility in trade interface ingame to check if the trade is final or not. For trades that are not final, there could be an option to "revert" them. A history of not final trades should be of max 10 or something to prevent overuse...

I like both of these options and believe they should have been a part of the system from the beginning. The game makes it difficult for players to work cooperatively with others especially since the items have a real world financial aspect to them. If it was not by design, then it was by lack of effort or care on the Mindark's part. Shared loot mobs, instances like Beacons or otherwise, the ability to lend and borrow items.


Now that they are making more of these co-op gameplay styles (like RDI and future raids), not having a way to do these kind of trades safely needs to be addressed.
I am just trying to fill the gap until Mindark does. Is my solution perfect? No.

CLD's were the closest thing players had to an universally agreed system to collateralize items with while also not have your money languishing away not earning income or being utilized in some way. Now they would have to hold tons of dead ped to do the same trades they were making before or items of considerable value instead. Most players will not keep a lot of ped laying around just to be able to borrow items with and will probably buy gear or keep it in the exchange. My system would make an alternative option possible, just like my rental service fund does for the clients it was designed to serve. I didn't plan on making this trusted 3rd party service for another year or so, but Mindark removing CLD's sped up the timetable.

 

[Hego Damask]

Because you can only see the service as if you were running it, and as such you attribute my actions and motivations as if they were your own, and from your comments it seems you lack the capacity of acting in ways that are not purely self-serving.

Of course i look it that way, you have investors that need to be paid after their investment. You are offering a rental service for money.
You try to convince us about you are a charity, which is not true, you are a service provider who is in the market for financial benefits.

 

[Deleted member 71093]

Nine and 1/2 years me and many longtime quit players have put up with reading your 'informative' posts.

Can't you just ... stop.

Mindark wont stop you, however eventually they may have to decide to.


One thing is for sure 'Mr 350 Knifefighter', I will say 'I Told You So'

And for the rest of you, enjoy your and be mindful of where you buy it!

i mean i did find it pretty informative...
basically meaning learn to work with the game instead of against

i mean i just took it as a reminder that MA will always do whats best for them not for some specific player, its up to the players to adapt as MA wont adapt to whatever specific needs some players have (ex: collateral, MA doesnt give a flying fuck about it and neither should you)

....unless i got it completely wrong. funny oftentime he writes stuff ppl jump at his throat but the guy's still #1 for a reason

 

[Hego Damask]

Option 1.
Deeds for items would be great. MA could make money out of it too, allowing players to purchase this option for a fee. Then, a players could give away their items and keep the deeds and reclaim if neccessary. Items should have in information panel a clear indication that a deed was created for that item and when a final trade is conducted, the deed should also be handed.

They could use the banktellers, already in the game, only change needed on them is the ability to give out items instead of ped only.

Its not like MA wont be able to figure out 10 different ways of P2P safe loans till tomorrow, its rather the will to enable it.
Way less player would deposit a fuckton of peds for gear instead of just using a safe loan without any investment if he could.
Guess that is the 2 sides of the balance: usd deposits in bank account / ped earning ingame, and it seems the usd deposits winning.

 

[Deleted member 71093]

They could use the banktellers, already in the game, only change needed on them is the ability to give out items instead of ped only.

Its not like MA wont be able to figure out 10 different ways of P2P safe loans till tomorrow, its rather the will to enable it.
Way less player would deposit a fuckton of peds for gear instead of just using a safe loan without any investment if he could.
Guess that is the 2 sides of the balance: usd deposits in bank account / ped earning ingame, and it seems the usd deposits winning.

but MA doesn't make money when you depo so i doubt thats the reason
they make money when stuff decays, they literally gain nothing when you depo 10$ or 10000$ (maybe except some deposit fees?)