Question: Can I have some constructive feedback?

[San]

I think the most honest feedback is that, while not illegal and quite inevitable in the nature of opportunity-seeking participants, the emergence of financial services piggybacking on a system designed to be secure from most issues with trust, is not seen as desirable without reserve. This may be putting it politely, but I don't know to what degree it causes real worries on the developer's side. They do know however that they will be accosted for making corrections they can't be expected to do because people don't understand or don't want to accept where the authority for that lies, and will be screamed at until the cows come home, when any of these trades suddenly turn south. I wouldn't expect much motivation for helping anyone along who chooses this path.

 

[Aatrixx]

Rental services should be built by Ma as they are a great ioption on many ocasion.

There's many ways to solve the problem of collaterals, risks and whatever.
On my opininion it should be regulated by MA.

Creat a Rental Terminal! - more or less like the auction.
You would stablish the cost (price / day) and a maximum days for rent.
The players would pay that cost * number of days he wants to rent immediatly (in ped).
When time ran out the item would delivered automatic to the the previous owner storage.
No need of collaterals or 3th parties or risks.

 

[Sulje]

Rental services should be built by Ma as they are a great ioption on many ocasion.

There's many ways to solve the problem of collaterals, risks and whatever.
On my opininion it should be regulated by MA.

Creat a Rental Terminal! - more or less like the auction.
You would stablish the cost (price / day) and a maximum days for rent.
The players would pay that cost * number of days he wants to rent immediatly (in ped).
When time ran out the item would delivered automatic to the the previous owner storage.
No need of collaterals or 3th parties or risks.

Why? Resources can be dedicated to improve player experience elsewhere, as rental service isn't that important to the game.

 

[Deleted member 71093]

Informative?
It's a saying for 20 years already: "Entropia is dynamic, adapt or die."

Nothing new here. Nor informative. He's just stating the obvious that everybody already knows.

no, it is not obvious and not everybody knows, this thread is proof lmao, but lets dissect

Their interest within the game, they (the players want no risk when it comes to rental or whatever) what im typing and what you understand.I don't care about your business, I talk game concept and how I see things moving into the game from outside of my interest, your interest or someone else's.I am detached from the subject.I look at whats happening from the game and I position myself where I can look at the greater picture not whats my investment or my take to the situation.I care about mindark and their future not about certain individuals in the game whatever is their name.
If their approach is to collect more money from something I am happy to see that.I will adjust myself to their position.I don't center myself towards what I want and I expect Mindark to change their plans to my needs which in a way its what you do or at least that's the feeling I get.

this thread is about starting a service that doesnt exist in-game for which the risk level is very high and for which there are no built-in systems to enforce. clearly, some people didnt get the memo so it's not obvious... messi's comment is on-point; MA doesn't give a flying fuck if you invested a load of money on gear or whatever to start an in-game business, they only give a fuck if they invested that kind of money since they'll want returns. all trades are final, work with that instead of fighting it and finding ways around. detach yourself from your avatar for a minute, look at the big picture, adjust your plans accordingly and shoot for the stars. as long as you'll be tied to that mentality of keep doing what you're doing no matter the changes on MAs side you wont succeed.

probably an unpopular opinion, but messi's right most of the time. anyone in his shoes would be just as cynical; imagine saying the same thing over and over but no one ever listens? yea. and the ones who do listen and do what he does, funny enough, are able to reach high levels of play; go figure

 

[Deleted member 71093]

Rental services should be built by Ma as they are a great ioption on many ocasion.

There's many ways to solve the problem of collaterals, risks and whatever.
On my opininion it should be regulated by MA.

Creat a Rental Terminal! - more or less like the auction.
You would stablish the cost (price / day) and a maximum days for rent.
The players would pay that cost * number of days he wants to rent immediatly (in ped).
When time ran out the item would delivered automatic to the the previous owner storage.
No need of collaterals or 3th parties or risks.

Rental services do exist, kind of. they're called (L)

pick an UL weapon you're very interested in
find an (L) equivalent in stats
buy the (L) and use it all

there you go, you just "rented" a gun risk-free, only paid a little (or a lot) MU on it

 

[Ferial]

Rental services do exist, kind of. they're called (L)

pick an UL weapon you're very interested in
find an (L) equivalent in stats
buy the (L) and use it all

Great! I'd like to buy all of your Mayhem Electric Attack Nanochip 15, Perfected (L) please!

Point is, there is a market for a rental service in the game. There are issues with rental services. Primarily trust. If one could rent items collateral free, there would no doubt be a higher overall cycle rate in the game. This would be beneficial for MA.

On topic: I am no more likely to use a third party for renting unless it would remove the need for collateral entirely.

 

[Aatrixx]

Rental services do exist, kind of. they're called (L)

pick an UL weapon you're very interested in
find an (L) equivalent in stats
buy the (L) and use it all

there you go, you just "rented" a gun risk-free, only paid a little (or a lot) MU on it

You comparing two different measures cost/time (rental) to a cost/ped cycle (L). which one is cheaper is case by case.
Anyway, the point wasn't if its cheap or expensive. it's up to each one to decide.

the real danger i see there is a possible monopolization of rare items making it impossible to buy for players interested in simply playing the game.

 

[Deleted member 71093]

Great! I'd like to buy all of your Mayhem Electric Attack Nanochip 15, Perfected (L) please!
Point is, there is a market for a rental service in the game. There are issues with rental services. Primarily trust. If one could rent items collateral free, there would no doubt be a higher overall cycle rate in the game. This would be beneficial for MA.

this right here is exactly why messi said what he said, we're going back to "if only the game would change so that I can do X or Y"
just find a weapon with similar stats to that chip and off you go. MF, blp, pistols, rifles....who cares, as long as the stats are similar and you're maxed on it you're gonna have the result you're looking for.

this would not be beneficial to MA. if it was, it would be in-game already. you think they havent thought about a system of that kind in 20 years? they did, and now we have banks (aka pawn shops). if that doesnt do what you want to do then you're shit outta luck.

You comparing two different measures cost/time (rental) to a cost/ped cycle (L). which one is cheaper is case by case.
Anyway, the point wasn't if its cheap or expensive. it's up to each one to decide.

of course it isnt the exact same thing but its what we have now. you can pay MU and risk whatever collateral you want by dealing with a third-party who might or might not just take your shit and leave, or you can pay MU have zero risk and deal with in-game systems that are proven to work (aka (L) stuff at auctions). you might not get that shiny UL weapon you were never meant to use in the first place, but you'll have access to a lot of really good gear for a small MU fee.

pick your poison

 

[Ferial]

this right here is exactly why messi said what he said, we're going back to "if only the game would change so that I can do X or Y"
just find a weapon with similar stats to that chip and off you go. MF, blp, pistols, rifles....who cares, as long as the stats are similar and you're maxed on it you're gonna have the result you're looking for.

this would not be beneficial to MA. if it was, it would be in-game already. you think they havent thought about a system of that kind in 20 years? they did, and now we have banks (aka pawn shops). if that doesnt do what you want to do then you're shit outta luck.

Don't twist shit. You said "just find an L equivalent". There is no equivalent, in any category, for reasons that are possibly missed by people. Which is why I used that particular item to prove a point.

A rental system would be beneficial to MA, there is no question about it. There are possible reasons why they are reluctant to implement it. I can imagine several. None of them is decreasing revenue for MA.

We know for a fact that they have discussed a rental system and come to the conclusion that it is not something they want. I believe the words were, paraphrased *Entropia will never have such a system*.

If you think MindArk always makes the best choices for MindArk you really need to brush up on your history in the game.
The fact that it hasn't been done in 20 years says nothing at all about the value of the proposition.

I believe item monopolization was a worry back then. It still is. There is a difference in the state of the game back then, and the state it is in now though. And I think the decision should be reconsidered

 

[Sulje]

Don't twist shit. You said "just find an L equivalent". There is no equivalent, in any category, for reasons that are possibly missed by people. Which is why I used that particular item to prove a point.

A rental system would be beneficial to MA, there is no question about it. There are possible reasons why they are reluctant to implement it. I can imagine several. None of them is decreasing revenue for MA.

We know for a fact that they have discussed a rental system and come to the conclusion that it is not something they want. I believe the words were, paraphrased *Entropia will never have such a system*.

If you think MindArk always makes the best choices for MindArk you really need to brush up on your history in the game.
The fact that it hasn't been done in 20 years says nothing at all about the value of the proposition.

I believe item monopolization was a worry back then. It still is. There is a difference in the state of the game back then, and the state it is in now though. And I think the decision should be reconsidered

So what you are suggesting is:

- Destroy many crafters out there, and cut ability for new players to consider crafting, and screw up crafting in general
- Screw up hunting, as no more resources will be sold towards crafting L weapons
- Screw up miners, no more weapons crafting
- Get 3 people who will buy all noticeable weapons and hold them very rich

good idea, very important for MA to dedicate resources for that thingy

 

[Aatrixx]

I believe item monopolization was a worry back then. It still is. There is a difference in the state of the game back then, and the state it is in now though. And I think the decision should be reconsidered

For every problem there's a solution. One way to avoid that is to limit the total MU you can rent. like max of 500k item MU value. that one you can rent a bunch of "shit" items but only a limited ammount of top gear stuff.

i believe rental is awesome specially for players who want ot try an item. or use it but he can't afford it, or simply to skill up somethin without spending months buying and selling it.

My view is. Rental should not be taken as a buiness but as an option to lend your personal gear when you are not using it.

 

[Sulje]

For every problem there's a solution. One way to avoid that is to limit the total MU you can rent. like max of 500k item MU value. that one you can rent a bunch of "shit" items but only a limited ammount of top gear stuff.

i believe rental is awesome specially for players who want ot try an item. or use it but he can't afford it, or simply to skill up somethin without spending months buying and selling it.

My view is. Rental should not be taken as a buiness but as an option to lend your personal gear when you are not using it.

there is plenty of L gear that you can use for skilling or trying out for example mayhem vendor items - they all have L versions dropping during mayhems.

 

[Deleted member 71093]

Don't twist shit. You said "just find an L equivalent". There is no equivalent, in any category, for reasons that are possibly missed by people. Which is why I used that particular item to prove a point.

A rental system would be beneficial to MA, there is no question about it. There are possible reasons why they are reluctant to implement it. I can imagine several. None of them is decreasing revenue for MA.

We know for a fact that they have discussed a rental system and come to the conclusion that it is not something they want. I believe the words were, paraphrased *Entropia will never have such a system*.

If you think MindArk always makes the best choices for MindArk you really need to brush up on your history in the game.
The fact that it hasn't been done in 20 years says nothing at all about the value of the proposition.

I believe item monopolization was a worry back then. It still is. There is a difference in the state of the game back then, and the state it is in now though. And I think the decision should be reconsidered

ofc they dont always make the best decision, but the fact they are running an RCE game successfully after twenty years tell me they know what they're doing and they're good at it. they know better than you or i or anyone else.

im not twisting shit, im suggesting systems in-place. of course you can cherry pick, like i cannot find an (L) improved mk2 TWEN edition OBVIOUSLY

you are once again suggesting stuff that isnt in-game, saying MA should implement it because it would be beneficial to them. who do you think you are to make those assumptions? they have more knowledge of the game and more money that any player will ever have - they know what they're doing.

you yourself said they made a statement saying its something entropia will never have, so why do you push so hard for it?

again, im on messi's side on this one. work with what you have, dont work around what you wish you'd have. cant rent a mayhem chip? just use something else ffs

 

[Ferial]

you yourself said they made a statement saying its something entropia will never have, so why do you push so hard for it?

Where am I pushing hard for it? As I recall the only things I have said at all on the topic is "there is a market for it" and "I think they should reconsider their opinion on it"

The first is definitely not pushing for anything, it is an observation. People are renting stuff despite there being no system in place, and the only thing holding it together is trust. Hence the conclusion there is a market for it.

The second is stating a fact. A rental system would make my progression easier so it would make my life easier.

So what you are suggesting is:

If you actually read what I wrote you will see that I make no suggestions at all. The post you are referencing is nothing but facts, apart from at the end where I explicitly state that i think they should reconsider their decision. That is my opinion, and clearly stated as such. I will help you and the other reading-challenged people.

1. There are items in game that have no L equivalents, for one or more reasons, despite going cross-category.

2. I am aware of certain dowsides to a rental system, I can think of several, and I am sure there are more I haven't considered.

3. MindArks revenue would increase with a rental system in place, as it would allow more players to cycle at a higher rate.

4. MindArk has not always made the best decisions.

Get 3 people who will buy all noticeable weapons and hold them very rich

It would be no different from how it is now, with the 3-4 people who are currently holding a significant amount of items hostage for ransom. Other than the accessibility for more people. The item holders would make money on a steady basis, rather than a couple of big sales which in turn keeps increasing prices, and life would go on. This is my opinion, just to make that clear.

As for the other points in your post, those problems don't come with a rental system. Those problems come from an oversupply of good UL items. Whether or not that is the case is beyond the scope of this topic.

you are once again suggesting stuff that isnt in-game, saying MA should implement it because it would be beneficial to them. who do you think you are to make those assumptions?

I have not suggested anything, ever. I have stated my opinion on things. I have never once told MA what to implement. I have expressed what I think, based on my perception of the situation.

 

[slick27]

Personally not that I'd like the idea rentals if they were ever to implement it, It should be banks that have the ability not a Joe blogs who can simply run off into the wind.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

A properly implemented rental system wouldn't be all doom and gloom, sure there would be some that would buy gear for the sole purpose of renting it out, but it would be no different to the way shops currently work now. Most shop vacancies that come up these days are rentals, but there still are sales. Simply because not every shop that comes up for sale makes a good rental investment, the same will happen with guns. Not every gun makes a good investment for a rental, in my opinion the demand for rentals is for DPS and skilling, so most of the expensive high efficiency weapons are out, as most people who desire to save PED with high efficiency won't want to blow it on rent.

A rental system also needs a risk factor. For example it should follow the same mechanics as the in game auction system. You list your item for rent for a set period, and an up front non refundable fee is paid by the asset holder based on the duration of the listing and the value/rental fee of the item. A renter can then search through the lists and find a gun they want, if you get lucky they pick yours, if not it expires and you wasted your time and money. If this fee is substantial enough, it would discourage a saturation of the rental market and keep rental fees competitive.

 

[AndrewViperAng]

Their interest within the game, they (the players want no risk when it comes to rental or whatever) what im typing and what you understand.I don't care about your business, I talk game concept and how I see things moving into the game from outside of my interest, your interest or someone else's.I am detached from the subject.I look at whats happening from the game and I position myself where I can look at the greater picture not whats my investment or my take to the situation.I care about mindark and their future not about certain individuals in the game whatever is their name.
If their approach is to collect more money from something I am happy to see that.I will adjust myself to their position.I don't center myself towards what I want and I expect Mindark to change their plans to my needs which in a way its what you do or at least that's the feeling I get.

The above statement is the best which i seen so far! I care about MA survival here, if they earn more money it means the game server keeps going. If MA change their game mechanism, i will re-deploy my strategy , simple as that. I dont center myself towards things that i want, that is unrealistic and simply naive. The bottomline is, it is not about certain individuals interest. Cheers~

 

[yeeck]

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