Question: claim size influence

Revlis

Hatchling
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Apr 9, 2023
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Does anything other than amps influence claim size? I've been mining the last few days and I am currently down about 500ped some of that due to mining in the wrong places. (I read out datwd information that I have now corrected) I'm mining on caly with an F-105 and unampped it's very rare for me to see anything above size 3. Using a level 8 amp I got my first global at 51 ped but burned my way through 5 amps at a loss since then.

Just wondering if there's anything else I can do to influence my drops other than watch my ped balance go from 180 to "go sweat"
 
I would recommend using smaller amps.

Personally, I've found smaller amps to be more consistent and I switch to a larger one like Level 8 once I know I'm in an area that has resources.

Think of it like Black Jack, you up your bet when the shoe is hot.

I think a lot of folks find themselves checking the area while simultaneously using a larger amp and it ends up costing you peds unnecessarily.
 
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Claim size is affected by TT drop cost, so it’s either amp, probe costs, or to a lesser degree, finder decay.

Outside of indoor mining, nothing else really effects claim size outside of random variation the system uses to determine “normal” claims (around size 3-5 unamped) or less common larger claims.

The general idea of amps is they just increase drop costs. If a claim you hit unamped on ore (1 ped drop) was 50 ped, that is often called a 50 ped multiplier. If you use a level 5 amp, that’s then a 3 ped drop that would result in a 150 ped claim instead. If it was a “normal” multiplier unamped, you might have around a 3 ped claim, or around 9 ped amped.

That’s simplified a lot and glossed over a few things, but amping doesn’t increases net TT%, so only do it when you have an area that is worth increasing your TT turnover at, such as a high MU area. At your ped balance, amping isn’t feasible yet really.

Even disregarding amp MU, your TT returns will swing more wildly because a bad run will deplete practically all of your ped. You need a larger sample size or number of drops to get bad runs to average out. Doing level 8s on a couple hundred ped means a bad run due to normal variation can wipe you out. That normal variation is more survivable in amped with lower costs. It’s a concept called risk of ruin that a few folks have posted about on here if you use the search function.
 
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i'm not an avid miner, but i have studied the mining scene and done a bit myself.
you want to easily global . slap a lvl 13 amp on a [Rookie TerraMaster]
whether u profit that is completely another story ..


here what i think, and have done so a in a few threads , im bored now so i'll re-iterate, might be some difference from what i original thought, but the concept is similar

firstly,
we need to understand this concept of entropia. everything u do cost peds. and supposedly by that "the game isnt exactly free".
you drop a probe, you expect a return, but who pays for this return ? every one else ... yourself ... certaintly not mindark
you drop a total of 100 peds worth, you are only getting back <100 peds, because of fees.
but you might now say nope. i got more, yes this is true. because you not the only one dropping.
if 100 people drop , over a time span, the pool of available peds get larger
when u drop, and find a claim, u are sharing out of this pool.

second ,
the way it works is at best theoretical assumptions
when ped is fed into the pool, it could be distributed across the various ores pools, or if that doesn't exist that it is all just one big pool ,
next, when u drop a probe , calculations are made to see if you meet the requirements for a payout
there are various theories on how mining works
but this is mine,

in any given mining area, a list of ores with various spawn percentages are given, some ores could have high counts some lower count,
at this stage we also take into consideration how deep the ore spawned ,
if your tool does not reach that depth, then you wont get those that spawn there,
if u use multiple different tool on the same area, with varying depths you could get multiple claim,
note that the range of the depth of the tool is 1 number average, but that means there is a upper limit and lower limit
there is 2 theory on how this works,

theory 1:
supposed the depth of the tool is 100 meters, it could be a variable range of locate ores between 0 meters and 200 meters of which the average is 100
this can be a fix range, so when u drop a probe, a random seed decided upon say 150 meters , and if the ore cluster is found there at 150 m, u get a hit (maybe, i'll explain further on this later, something to do with matching the yield)

theory 2:
supposed u drop at average 100m. it scan between 0m to 200m and stop when it finds an ore at 50 m. the next drop finds one at 150m as an example

this 2 theories complies with how multi dropping with the same tool at the sam area would find ores a few times
this idea is that area is saturated, no one was mined in a while

if i relate this back to hunting, there is another theory of "MOVING" ores , note how creatures do no stand still in one area, sometimes disappears and reappears else where ?, i figure it may be the same with ores, they spawn they move around, if u are lucky to mine at the right place at the right time you get a hit

there is also the "distance" so I imagine it like this,
ground zero, drop probe, star searching using the above theories, if in range 1 m no find, move to range 2m, then 3m then 4 and so on
so just a rough idea, it searches within your tool specs of depth , in this manner:
distance 1 depth 0
distance 1 depth 10
distance 1 depth 20
distance 1 depth 20 ... 200
...
distance 2 depth 0
distance 2 depth 100
distance 2 depth 0200
...
disatnce 3 depth 0
disatnce 3 depth 150 - ore found

now moving on to the
third ,
finding a claim
many theories here but i'll just state mine,

when u drop a probe, it has to calculate if you are worthy of a payout by examining if the cost of your drop "times" the multiplier is payable based on the loot pool of the whole or of the area or of the ore cluster size you found, if not .. no claims found,
this could be overridden by part 2 above, if no cluster at all then no finds at all..

if cluster is found but size is smaller than your drop + amp = no find, cluster could be moved elsewhere when this happens.
if cluster is found and the size matches, your drop + amp = find

why this seems to be almost true is the simple fact that i pop lvl 13 amps with a boosted finder, and found NOTHING mostly
but if i pop a lvl13 amp on a [Rookie TerraMaster] , theres quite a decent amount of claims here and there
but overall still a loss, unless ur really lucky hence why one should try to find MarkUP Ores.

it is true that the amp appears to boost your find. but we are not quite sure whether it boosts a found claim or whether it is included in the calculations and then the cluster size MUST first match the drop cost + amps

consider this,
using a typical finder with no amp , drop 100 times, how many do you find ?
using a typical finder with amp, drop 100 times, HOW many do you find ?
repeat this over a few days in different areas at different times
notice that mostly, the one without the amp gets more claims ..
WHY ?
so the question is, is amp really boosting the claim or is amp being added into the mix to determine if u get a claim ?

** in case this is different now, i did this long ago some 3 to 4 years ago, and i noticed that without amp u get more claims, with amp u get less but bigger claims, so to say an amp boosts the claim is incorrect.

statistically speaking, the more you drop overall, the more consistent your finds will be

imo nothing affects the claim size, the cluster size is probably determined by a % of the total available loot for the area.
and your claim size is based on the calculation of the yield = probe (cost + amps) * a multiplier on an if-else statement
if yield > cluster = no find
if yield < cluster = find

if and when there is a cluster the size of jupiter, and you just happen to be in the right area and the right depth and have the best finder + a lvl 13 amp and a huge multiplier and these all passes the qualifications check , then boom !!! welcome to waiting for 200s of days before u can fully claim the entire bounty
 
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I see. Thanks for the advice. Personally I'd be happy with breaking even I just enjoy the Zen of mining xD I realise I made it sound like I was global hunting but they are how I broke even before lol.
 
I see. Thanks for the advice. Personally I'd be happy with breaking even I just enjoy the Zen of mining xD I realise I made it sound like I was global hunting but they are how I broke even before lol.
Past successes are not indicative of future performance. If you want to break even after mark up ditch the amplifiers and stick to unamped mining all the way. I'll give you a little back story for myself. I recently withdraw most funds/assets in-game. I scrapped together 500 peds and went mining unamped, made that 500 ped into nearly 6000 ped. Took a break, now back at it again, going for 10K this time, again, all done unamped. I might post my stats on a mining log shortly, who knows? Either way all the best and F-105 is what I use 😉.
 
with 200 ped at your disposal... TT mining is the only way.
to drop L8 prepare 10k stack
 
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Many miners also use the "little rookie" as a scouter, noting the coordinates of finds and come back to them later with a larger finder if they "respawn".

Personally I use a grid.. (I am not going to show how exactly I do this, but I will give the basic maths)

Say for example you want to mine a distance of x away, I would drop probes on the coordinates that possess the closest factor of x. eg if I was at 12345, 54321 and I was mining at a distance of 110m my coords would be 12320, 51340. Divide each coordinate by 110, round the answer off and multiply it again by 110.

This way you will never probe the same location twice on the same run, and if you have to switch areas, each coordinate that you mine will line up with the grid.

Also I do not think that I can recommend mining as a good profession in this game as the markups for base resources are low, you can also try looking at mininglog.com for a little program and guide that shows you the concentration of the various resources.

Good luck and HF
 
Yeah I can see why you don't recommend it, I like mining and crafting in games I was hoping to use it to supply and fund crafting but it certainly doesn't feel like it's working.
 
Yeah I can see why you don't recommend it, I like mining and crafting in games I was hoping to use it to supply and fund crafting but it certainly doesn't feel like it's working
Im a frequent miner and one thing i can tell you for sure is that you cant do sustainable mining with a small bankroll. dont let anyone fool you, mining has a lot of markup. it just takes a while to learn the profession. equipment cost is close to nothing as compared to hunting. for a beginer miner id say 1-2 k ped is a good placed to start unamped mining with f105.Also there are much better planets than calypso. Its all about studying the auction house and seeing the demand.
 
Honestly, mining compared to hunting is like a gold mine. I mine unamped, i mine amped and i rarely loose peds, dont need to depo for mining at all.. Now when i go hunt, doesnt matter if i depo 100 usd, 500 usd or 1k usd i just loose it all. In hunting Markup basicly doesnt exist on 95% of mobs while in mining MU doesnt exist on 5% of res.. So imo hunting is one of the worst things to do in entropia while mining is one of the best ones atm. Just be patient and dont go for high amps, Run unamped 10, 100 or 1k times, grow ur peds then switch to amps as i did. I started mining with around 500 peds and bought f106, now im on around 3k + in mining and never did depo or put any more peds into it. Grown my peds only with unamped mining and now doing up to lvl 5 amps.
 
Honestly, mining compared to hunting is like a gold mine. I mine unamped, i mine amped and i rarely loose peds, dont need to depo for mining at all.. Now when i go hunt, doesnt matter if i depo 100 usd, 500 usd or 1k usd i just loose it all. In hunting Markup basicly doesnt exist on 95% of mobs while in mining MU doesnt exist on 5% of res.. So imo hunting is one of the worst things to do in entropia while mining is one of the best ones atm. Just be patient and dont go for high amps, Run unamped 10, 100 or 1k times, grow ur peds then switch to amps as i did. I started mining with around 500 peds and bought f106, now im on around 3k + in mining and never did depo or put any more peds into it. Grown my peds only with unamped mining and now doing up to lvl 5 amps.
Maaaaan, I don't know how you do it xD I spent 90ped on ammo to shoot stuff out of frustration and am getting around 120% returns, but the most I've had from mining in the last two days was 70% returns with MU. Either my hunting luck is just better or I really suck at mining xD
 
Maaaaan, I don't know how you do it xD I spent 90ped on ammo to shoot stuff out of frustration and am getting around 120% returns, but the most I've had from mining in the last two days was 70% returns with MU. Either my hunting luck is just better or I really suck at mining xD
PM me in game. ill give you a crash cource in mining
 
Does anything other than amps influence claim size?
Has nothing to do with the amp.
Its all about spent per action + chance of success. That resume all of EU.

Lesser chance = bigger hit per ped spent. So anything lowering radius will hit bigger for same ped spent. Any increase in decay be it boosted finder(more probes) or an amp will boost claim size as well.
 
Honestly, mining compared to hunting is like a gold mine. I mine unamped, i mine amped and i rarely loose peds, dont need to depo for mining at all.. Now when i go hunt, doesnt matter if i depo 100 usd, 500 usd or 1k usd i just loose it all. In hunting Markup basicly doesnt exist on 95% of mobs while in mining MU doesnt exist on 5% of res.. So imo hunting is one of the worst things to do in entropia while mining is one of the best ones atm. Just be patient and dont go for high amps, Run unamped 10, 100 or 1k times, grow ur peds then switch to amps as i did. I started mining with around 500 peds and bought f106, now im on around 3k + in mining and never did depo or put any more peds into it. Grown my peds only with unamped mining and now doing up to lvl 5 amps.
He's basically my carbon copy :D. Profiting off unamped mining is possible if you only know "where" to mine.
 
What I can even recommend, and I need to do this myself, (thanks Faces), would be to make a map of an area using a low level finder. I think I am going to alter one of my existing Excel Log spreadsheets and combine it with what I now "know" about mining.. You will find it in my signature when I am done with it..

Rufen, Jade, would you agree with this ?
 
Claim size is affected by TT drop cost, so it’s either amp, probe costs, or to a lesser degree, finder decay.

Been testing with around 20 different finders for enmatter only so far

Every 100 drops gives me 1% in skill gain no matter what finder I use, using from MD-10 up to TM 5

What claim I get is determined by the finder's decay.

Some enmatters can only be found starting at a certain depth, like inhaler, you will not find that when using a finder below the F-213, so under 631,8 depth.

Knowing what finder to use best at some spots, can save you a lot of peds to avoid low % resources, like energized crystal cell ... stay under F-104 (432,9 av depth) and you will not get it but you will get all other resources in that area.

Respawns ... I even mine between claims from other players and it doesn't affect my outcomes, my returns are always stable after several thousands of peds.
(But I'm not gonna explain a few secrets lol)

It's a lot more fun mining that way also :p

Depth is waaayyyyy over rated :p

As for TT returns (unamped) ... I'm always between 97-105%TT return (netto, so all costs counted), once I'm down at 97% I get more multipliers/globals again until I'm around 105% TT return again so ups and downs. This gives me profit like 115-120% (netto) after sales ... Win/Win

PS : you do not need amps to get hofs, Sabo, a friend in soc had a 4,6K tower unamped, so it's good to know it is possible.
 
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Been testing with around 20 different finders for enmatter only so far

Every 100 drops gives me 1% in skill gain no matter what finder I use, using from MD-10 up to TM 5

What claim I get is determined by the finder's decay.

Some enmatters can only be found starting at a certain depth, like inhaler, you will not find that when using a finder below the F-213, so under 631,8 depth.

Knowing what finder to use best at some spots, can save you a lot of peds to avoid low % resources, like energized crystal cell ... stay under F-104 (432,9 av depth) and you will not get it but you will get all other resources in that area.

Respawns ... I even mine between claims from other players and it doesn't affect my outcomes, my returns are always stable after several thousands of peds.
(But I'm not gonna explain a few secrets lol)

It's a lot more fun mining that way also :p

Depth is waaayyyyy over rated :p

As for TT returns (unamped) ... I'm always between 97-105%TT return (netto, so all costs counted), once I'm down at 97% I get more multipliers/globals again until I'm around 105% TT return again so ups and downs. This gives me profit like 115-120% (netto) after sales ... Win/Win

PS : you do not need amps to get hofs, Sabo, a friend in soc had a 4,6K tower unamped, so it's good to know it is possible.
can vouch for this. depth is overrated and mining in between other claims or recently mined by other miners doesnt make much impact on tt returns to the extent people claim it does. this however is case specific as the tt swings in Argus which is an over mined area, is usualy 90%tt avg
 
can vouch for this. depth is overrated and mining in between other claims or recently mined by other miners doesnt make much impact on tt returns to the extent people claim it does. this however is case specific as the tt swings in Argus which is an over mined area, is usualy 90%tt avg
yeah its overrated unless you aren't at like 800-1k depth, a lot of rare ores/enmatter are found better/can only be found at that range
 
yeah its overrated unless you aren't at like 800-1k depth, a lot of rare ores/enmatter are found better/can only be found at that range

Can I ask what enm you mean?

Dianthus ... best results are with
F-103 + 4 depth enh getting ave 11,11% in TT returns
F-105 + 5 depth enh getting ave 10,94% in TT returns
F-104 + 2 depth enh getting ave 9,14% in TT returns

What I noticed is that when there is a lot on auc (so selling cheaper) you get more in your runs and if less on auc, it's harder to get and selling for higher %.
Mine it if it's cheap and stock till it's high %
So more an availability problem?
Some say waves ... but I get the same results at any time no matter what time I'm mining.
 
Can I ask what enm you mean?

Dianthus ... best results are with
F-103 + 4 depth enh getting ave 11,11% in TT returns
F-105 + 5 depth enh getting ave 10,94% in TT returns
F-104 + 2 depth enh getting ave 9,14% in TT returns

What I noticed is that when there is a lot on auc (so selling cheaper) you get more in your runs and if less on auc, it's harder to get and selling for higher %.
Mine it if it's cheap and stock till it's high %
So more an availability problem?
Some say waves ... but I get the same results at any time no matter what time I'm mining.
More of an ore thing, but blood moss is around 800 avg depth. Stuff like redulite, rugaritz, and tridenite you need 800+ avg depth to hit more consistently or even hit at all
 
More of an ore thing, but blood moss is around 800 avg depth. Stuff like redulite, rugaritz, and tridenite you need 800+ avg depth to hit more consistently or even hit at all

To me Ruga and Redu seems more findable than Tridenite. I even know a Ruga spot ingame xD.
 
Its all about studying the auction house and seeing the demand.

100% agree on that.

For a novice miner, not doing this, this will always lead to bankruptcy and you will need more deposits, and even more deposits, ...

Study the prices, possibly for smaller stacks and also whether they sell, this is very important not to lose your fee every time.

Start mining at 1 place to keep the number of resources stashed as small as possible in your storage.
Do small runs in the beginning, for example 100 drops.
For enmatter you're going to get oil, nexus, and a few others of course, many of which are on auction, they sell slower, so patience is key here.
Remember, ALL goes up and down.
You get less of the better enmatters so you better stock them until they reach a high % and MAXIMIZE your profit with them.

The same also applies to ores and treasures
 
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