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Help: Data Needed for New Tier/Enhancer Professions

Coop_ said:
Added "Enhancer Technology" to Tier Upgrader Profession, per the 10.6.5 Content list here.
Click to expand...

...which has invalidated a lot of data sets i had collected already... :(
 
I hear that melee combat also adds to the tier upgrader profession
 
Hijacker27 said:
I hear that melee combat also adds to the tier upgrader profession
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that's great news... i was having a hard time trying to fit the data sets from people, even at very low levels, which seemed to indicate a missing skill (apart from BPC, which is still unknown). i'll give it another go with melee combat, and see if that improves something.

any chipper out there to test it?? hint, hint -> melee combat gives nice HP too :D
 
Coop_ said:
I wondered about that. Have our Tier Upgrader profession levels dropped then?
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mine has gone from 8.95 to 8.50 or so...
 
jdegre said:
mine has gone from 8.95 to 8.50 or so...
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So about 5% drop. Does that mean this new skill makes up 5% of profession?
Would they reduce 5 other skills by 1%? Or all skills by a fraction of a %? Is there any precident for this?
 
Coop_ said:
So about 5% drop. Does that mean this new skill makes up 5% of profession?
Would they reduce 5 other skills by 1%? Or all skills by a fraction of a %? Is there any precident for this?
Click to expand...

not precedent, that i know.

i also noticed something weird... since i could not find a good fit for the current data, as commented before, i started reviewing the data i had, and looking more carefully to some of the chipping tests posted here. it turns out that the mining chipping i did was not a good fit for 4%, but it was not good either for 3%; in fact, it was an excellent fit for 3.5%. so... what if they have introduced now non-integer values? that would make things much harder than before.

in any case, i have to start from scratch, since the data i had before is not valid anymore.
 
Coop_ said:
So about 5% drop. Does that mean this new skill makes up 5% of profession?
Would they reduce 5 other skills by 1%? Or all skills by a fraction of a %? Is there any precident for this?
Click to expand...

Contributing skills percentages are always integers, reducing every skill by a fraction would result in decimals and that would contradict all we found out so far about skills.
 
wizzszz said:
Contributing skills percentages are always integers, reducing every skill by a fraction would result in decimals and that would contradict all we found out so far about skills.
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Well, it sure would be different, and a PITA. But see jdegre's post above; he thinks the chipping data already fit best with a .5%.
 
Coop_ said:
Well, it sure would be different, and a PITA. But see jdegre's post above; he thinks the chipping data already fit best with a .5%.
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and not only that... i'm starting to think that it could go as far as to 0.25 increments. why? because we do have a precedent, that i disregarded initially: HP
 
Coop_ said:
So about 5% drop. Does that mean this new skill makes up 5% of profession?
Click to expand...

all skills of jdegres would need to be equal values for this to be correct.

Due to the revisal of skills, I am very close to 15 :/ about 0.5 profession drop.

Tier Upgrading42%
Computer6%
Mining4%
Engineering8%
Aim8%
Evade8%
Anatomy1%
Manufacture Enhancers14%
Analysis7%
Blueprint Comprehension2%
Click to expand...
this approximation sees me 1.33 levels out (1.33 below actual). unfortunately I now sold all my esis recently so I can't chip a bit of skills out and reskill them to try and zero the numbers : P
 
Oh, missed that .5% bit...

nonetheless i think it follows the old patterns, even if they had to "sneak in" another unlock after we got the profession...

There is not much sense in using fractions, 1/100th should be enough to scale it as you need... and calc'ing it with decimals is far slower than just multiplying two integers - sure, *4 everything and you have 0.25% steps, but still:

Why should they do that? I see no need for decimals.
 
@immortal: those numbers that you see in the optimizer currently, are completely off... i've put them there just to play around with different data sets from different people, because it is convenient specially with people that sends me a CSV, or have their skills stored in my site, or in entropedia.

also, i've put there BPC, when we don't know if it has any influence. and melee combat, suggested by hijacker27, is not there.

so, now, the most important thing would be to ensure the contributing skills. once we have that, we can even try the brute-force approach, with only 7-8 data sets from avas at different levels, we should get something.

but without 100% certainty in the contributing skills, it's like shooting in the dark.
 
jdegre said:
@immortal: those numbers that you see in the optimizer currently, are completely off... i've put them there just to play around with different data sets from different people, because it is convenient specially with people that sends me a CSV, or have their skills stored in my site, or in entropedia.

also, i've put there BPC, when we don't know if it has any influence. and melee combat, suggested by hijacker27, is not there.

so, now, the most important thing would be to ensure the contributing skills. once we have that, we can even try the brute-force approach, with only 7-8 data sets from avas at different levels, we should get something.

but without 100% certainty in the contributing skills, it's like shooting in the dark.
Click to expand...

but i wanna brute force matrixsolve it nowwwwwwww : P

on topic, If I were to venture some percent contribution trials, I would look at texturizing (Material Designer profession). the ratios in there look fairly similar, and if i were a programmer needing to think up some unlockable balance fast, i would just steal a template like that : P
i.e. Texture PatternMatching=>Tier Upgrading (both 40%)
Make Textile=>Manufacture Enhancers (10-15%)
Surface Composition=>(as yet undiscovered unlockable skill) (8%)
 
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In reference to the possibilty that melee combat is a factor, I chipped a small amount out, and although not 100% certain, I'm sure the tier upgrade pro standing went down a little.
 
slither said:
In reference to the possibilty that melee combat is a factor, I chipped a small amount out, and although not 100% certain, I'm sure the tier upgrade pro standing went down a little.
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ok. good to hear that. i can try to figure out the % of the "basic" skills with the brute-force calculator, using as starting point the %'s we got from chipping, although they have been changed in the last mini VU.

so, ideally, what i would need is data from people with no skills in Tier Upgrading and Manufacture Enhancers, and preferrably without BPC (we don't know yet if is involved in the prof). i'd need skill levels in:

Computer
Mining
Engineering
Analysis
Anatomy
Evade
Aim
Melee Combat

and their profession level in Tier Upgrader (a screenshot of the profession bar). please post here or send PM, and once i get 6-7 sets, i can start number crunching the data.
 
Is it me or is this a very strange profession in case of skills :scratch2:

I'm a level 7 upgrader; which is my biggest crafting skill. I do have comp/eng/mining/analysis as helping skills I guess.

But I wonder if the skills you recieve on upgrading do necessarily are skills used for that profession.
Doesn't anyone find it strange for skills like aim/anatomy/evade for a profession where you can tier up your driller/finder as well?

Maybe MA is pulling us a leg :scratch2:
 
Deity A said:
Is it me or is this a very strange profession in case of skills :scratch2:

I'm a level 7 upgrader; which is my biggest crafting skill. I do have comp/eng/mining/analysis as helping skills I guess.

But I wonder if the skills you recieve on upgrading do necessarily are skills used for that profession.
Doesn't anyone find it strange for skills like aim/anatomy/evade for a profession where you can tier up your driller/finder as well?

Maybe MA is pulling us a leg :scratch2:
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looks like MA has chosen 1 skill from every type of item you can upgrade (anatomy for FAPs, mining for finders, aim for ranged weapons, etc..). but yes, definitely is the most strange profession we have seen so far.
 
jdegre said:
looks like MA has chosen 1 skill from every type of item you can upgrade (anatomy for FAPs, mining for finders, aim for ranged weapons, etc..). but yes, definitely is the most strange profession we have seen so far.
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ing/comp/mining -> drilling (mining)
sounds like drilling is gonna be an even more fun thing to do then :scratch2:

seems that they took the slowest skilling skill from every profeesion too
 
jdegre said:
looks like MA has chosen 1 skill from every type of item you can upgrade (anatomy for FAPs, mining for finders, aim for ranged weapons, etc..). but yes, definitely is the most strange profession we have seen so far.
Click to expand...

The texturing profession is kinda weird like that too. Makes sense though if they have to have one profession that covers a large variety of skill sets.
 
Don't know if this has been confirmed yet or not. Saw it being asked for a few pages ago, so I decided to bite the bullet (or chip :laugh:) eat the cost and help out a little.

Before BPC:


After BPC:


Went from 355.15 pts. to 2329.90 pts. = 1974.75 pts. <--accuracy matters?
 
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And, not sure if this one has been confirmed yet so here is Anatomy as well.

Before Anatomy Chip:


After Anatomy Chip:


Gained: 261.59 pts. <--accuracy matters?

Have fun. :)
 
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Imperious said:
Don't know if this has been confirmed yet or not. Saw it being asked for a few pages ago, so I decided to bite the bullet (or chip :laugh:) eat the cost and help out a little.

Before BPC:


After BPC:


Went from 355.15 pts. to 2329.90 pts. = 1974.75 pts. <--accuracy matters?
Click to expand...

Imperious said:
And, not sure if this one has been confirmed yet so here is Anatomy as well.

Before Anatomy Chip:


After Anatomy Chip:


Gained: 261.59 pts. <--accuracy matters?

Have fun. :)
Click to expand...

thanks a lot for the data, really helpful. this confirms that BPC does not affect tier upgrader, and it does affect enhacer manufacturer, which makes more sense.

i'll try to analyse the data in more detail later today, when i get back home.

regarding the accuracy in the skill points, it does not matter too much. however, what it does matter a lot is the accuracy in the profession level.
 
My second tier upgrade.

chris enzo enzo is the first colonist to reach tier 1 for Omegaton M2732
You have gained experience in your Tier Upgrading skill.
You have gained a new rank in Tier Upgrading!
You have gained experience in your Analysis skill.
You have gained a new rank in Analysis!
You have gained experience in your Engineering skill.
Your Omegaton M2732 has reached tier 1.0

 
jdegre said:
thanks a lot for the data, really helpful. this confirms that BPC does not affect tier upgrader, and it does affect enhacer manufacturer, which makes more sense.

i'll try to analyse the data in more detail later today, when i get back home.

regarding the accuracy in the skill points, it does not matter too much. however, what it does matter a lot is the accuracy in the profession level.
Click to expand...

Any updates ? or any closer to the final skills and %'s that contribute ? if not what else needs to be confirmed or tried out?
 
Imperious said:
Any updates ? or any closer to the final skills and %'s that contribute ? if not what else needs to be confirmed or tried out?
Click to expand...

no updates, sorry. i don't have data, and without data, no updates :silly2:

in all this time since my last post, i have received exactly 1 set of data, via PM :( (thanks to the source, btw). however, i need many sets of data to get any significant result.

to recap, what it is needed is the skill points for the skills involved in the tier upgrader profession (listed in the first post, except BPC, which we already know it is not involved), and the tier upgrader professional level (either you calculate the level yourself, with 2 decimal points, or post here a screenshot of the professions window).
 
Chris Enzo said:
Did one more upgrade:


BTW lost gun in first attempt but got residue for 66 peds instead:)
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gratz on the tier up :) would you mind posting (or PM'ing) your skills and prof. level, as per the post just before yours? :D
 
My Skills
Code: 
Tier Upgrading            1,0
Computer               1102,1
Mining                 2410,47
Engineering            3123,25
Analysis               1080,63
Manufacture Enhancers     1,0
Anatomy                6224,26
Evade                  3108,1
Aim                    3341,29
Melee Combat           3975,39
Enhancer Technology (not unlocked)
(Not Mechanics or Serendipity or BPC)

My Prof Level
tirupgraderproflvl11.jpg



hope that helps
:)
 
ok, now i've got more data to play with :)

i've run the data crunching program over the data sets i have, and i've assumed so far that the %'s are integer values.

the best fit seems to be the following:

Tier Upgrading: 48%
Computer: 5%
Mining: 4%
Engineering: 10%
Aim: 4%
Evade: 4%
Anatomy: 4%
Manufacture Enhancers: 10%
Analysis: 5%
Melee Combat: 4%
Enhancer Technology: 2%

all data sets i've got have very low numbers in tier upgrading and manufacture enhancers, so the %'s for those skills are most likely off.

i've put these numbers in the chipping optimizer. if anyone wants to try with his/her own skills, and check if the results are within a reasonable error margin, that'd be great. if not, please report!
 
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