Deeds - your opinion

[Casper]

To me the ability to vote on the future developments was the deciding factor. This means I can possibly influence the way this game develops in the future. A power I have never had before now. It means that I need to assist in the retention of new players. It means I have a say, altho small, in some of the things we like here and more importantly, the things I dont like. It will require the members of this comunity to band togather in ways they never have before.

I just cant wait...

 

[Yquem]

To me the ability to vote on the future developments was the deciding factor. This means I can possibly influence the way this game develops in the future. A power I have never had before now. It means that I need to assist in the retention of new players. It means I have a say, altho small, in some of the things we like here and more importantly, the things I dont like. It will require the members of this comunity to band togather in ways they never have before.

I just cant wait...

And what do you really think you can vote for ?

More loot?
Better items?

or

What do you like to implemented first? Tamming or Beacon?

Im pretty sure that the the VOTING - is equal to nothing at all. No change as of today.

 

[GravillionL]

But then again, why should in-game virtual shares (which these deeds seem to be) be any better or profitable than Mindark issued real-world shares?

Having said that, I did buy 1 land deed so that later I can have a good how 100 USD can go up in smoke ... pretty much like any other of my depos/donations.

 

[DRDoom]

There will be a lot of deeds re-listed for less before all will be sold. PPL will need peds faster than the deeds will be sold-out = lower prices.

I like the idea of players 'owning' a part of the planet, that's a great concept. But I think the ROI of 27-30% is major BS.

But just make the calc yourself:

Now MA "sells" 50% of the income from Caly for 6M US$. with a ROI of 30%/year that would mean an net income of 1.8M US$ a year.
This would mean if you own 100% of Caly the income is 3.6M US$ /year

Now a little guesswork, but you'll get the picture:
Now calc how much SEE had to pay for FPC it to own it 100% How much they did pay (1/3th)
But they rather 'cut their losses' than to pay the other 2/3 th !

Would they do that if it brought in 3.6M US$ net a year?


PS1: I see a lot of ppl selling nice gear to buy deeds instead.... But if these ppl hunt/mine/craft less; the income drops = Lower return for the deeds = lower ROI = lower value.
PS2: On the other side most ppl will spend their income of the deeds ingame anyway which is a good effect ofc. where a company as SEE/FPC buying Caly not going to put their 'profits' ingame.

I will prolly buy some shares in june 2012 in the 'sales'

 

[Mac]

Hi,
Im just curios what is your opinion about selling land deeds?

Do you think MA will meet their expectations and will sell all deeds for 1k per paper?

I hope they sell all of them real quick so we can get back to business as usual, if that's possible, whatever business as usual means.

I also hope people make a shit load of money off them so they have extra cash to go hunt so they will want to buy a nice weapon to hunt with!

 

[Yquem]

I will prolly buy some shares in june 2012 in the 'sales'

Ill be there too

 

[millstreet2]

At a time it will be possible to get them below 1k ped - MA cant sell all of them and when ppl that did buy some need to sell - they have to go below MA's price.

They HAVE to?

ROI can increase, and certainly when there are none left on auction the price may rise to WELL ABOVE 1000 Ped. Unless there are some issues with return, or sure, a player may need to sell, But to say it HAS to drop below 1000 ped is far from the truth.

The more likely scenario is it dbls, triples or more, before the paper becomes worthless.

 

[millstreet2]

Q. What quantities of Land Lot deeds are available?
A. Land Lot deeds are available in single units, as well as in stacks for 5, 10, 20, 50 and 100. For those interested in larger quantities of over 500 and need help or advise please contact info@mindark.com


Pls consider this before you guys assume that the numbers the auction data shows is the total sales.

Its likely that players have contacted MA and potentially bought shares directly.

It wouldn't suprise me to login on one day around 20-30k shown on auction data, and for all of them to be sold out.

You can't judge demand by the auction data anymore... Your taking a chance with buying deeds @ MA price, or paying on the second hand market... Its your call

 

[Matho]

At a time it will be possible to get them below 1k ped - MA cant sell all of them and when ppl that did buy some need to sell - they have to go below MA's price.

This is probably the most worrying thing out there, in my opinion.
Just imagine the consequences

 

[Sircus]

Some things to consider,

With MA´s trackrecord, marketing from these 6 millions will probably be waaaay smaller then you guys think. I mean they wont spend much as you think. MA might do another banner campaign and then say thats it. It wouldnt surprise me *rofl*. (Cheap castles in Greece atm *hint*)

Another thing for those actually thinking of withdrawing the nice ROI is that the true ROI is much lower then advertised. One needs to add deposit fee, withdraw fee and currency +/- due to withdraw time. One also has the interest loss the day you liquidate your bonds to withdraw.

 

[ermik]

The more likely scenario is it dbls, triples or more, before the paper becomes worthless.

1000ped = 27-30% ROI

if its above that ROI then the deeds may rise , but not double or triple...

if its below that ROI, the deeds will fall below 1000 peds.

they will also sell below 1000 peds in a near future, i know of sales at 965 ped per deed. and this is as simple as it is true.

ppl need peds to do other ingame activities, thus selling lower than 1000 ped per share.

cheers

ermik

 

[millstreet2]

1000ped = 27-30% ROI

if its above that ROI then the deeds may rise , but not double or triple...

if its below that ROI, the deeds will fall below 1000 peds.

they will also sell below 1000 peds in a near future, i know of sales at 965 ped per deed. and this is as simple as it is true.

ppl need peds to do other ingame activities, thus selling lower than 1000 ped per share.

cheers

ermik

So you think the average sale is below 1000 Ped right now? Because a few have sold at 965, Theres handful of sales at 2000 , 3000+ PED Already.. 1 or 2 sales doesn't make a trend.

 

[ermik]

So you think the average sale is below 1000 Ped right now? Because a few have sold at 965, Theres handful of sales at 2000 , 3000+ PED Already.. 1 or 2 sales doesn't make a trend.

the 2000 and 3000 ped sales are from before there were plentyful with singles in au.....

as long as there are 53.000 left for sale at 1000 peds from MA , i fail to see how it would rise ....

nevermind , just keep haussing because you tank yourself full of em , dont forget the blp amp bp thingie though.

experience come from mistakes, but try and make sure you learn from them.

1st time you make a mistake its a mistake.

2nd time you make the same mistake its a choice.

all im saying i cant see anything but a huge risk atm.

cheers and good luck

ermik

 

[Snuggins]

Q. What quantities of Land Lot deeds are available?
A. Land Lot deeds are available in single units, as well as in stacks for 5, 10, 20, 50 and 100. For those interested in larger quantities of over 500 and need help or advise please contact info@mindark.com


Pls consider this before you guys assume that the numbers the auction data shows is the total sales.

Its likely that players have contacted MA and potentially bought shares directly.

It wouldn't suprise me to login on one day around 20-30k shown on auction data, and for all of them to be sold out.

You can't judge demand by the auction data anymore... Your taking a chance with buying deeds @ MA price, or paying on the second hand market... Its your call

You did read the press release right? Excitement is good but hype isn't helping anyone.

Citizens will also receive a share in the Planet Partner gross revenue of Calypso, paid weekly. Based on Planet Calypso's performance over the last 12 months, the potential return of investment (ROI) is expected to be between 27% and 30% per year. Each planet in the Entropia Universe is a separate Planet Partner, and the revenue share paid to deed holders will come from the Planet Calypso revenue stream. Sixty thousand land lot deeds offered at $100 USD each are available exclusively through the Entropia Universe global auction and can be acquired by anyone after creating a free avatar.

 

[Uvas]

That new avatar with 500 deeds is going to be able to kill a LOT of snables! It is going to have a mighty fine bankroll!

 

[aridash]

But then again, why should in-game virtual shares (which these deeds seem to be) be any better or profitable than Mindark issued real-world shares?

the immediatly obvious reason is that they offer an instant return on the gross revenue. you try to find a company share that does that. you cant, dividends are based on profits, if you get them at all after years of holding the stock. Share investments are usually assuming a rise in the share price with a hope of future dividend. with the deeds we get the revenue now and if revenue increase we get better return and should see a related value rise too.

another slightly more complex advantage, any gains (returns or value) will be defacto offset against any losses you make in game for tax purposes. unless you have to or are being really strict about reporting your local tax man, everything in game is completely invisable to them. not everyone has to consider tax in game, everyone has to consider tax on real shares.

an even more complex issue is whether some nationalities would even be allowed to participate in an IPO or hold shares in MA/FPC/whatever. this in game proposition is open to anyone who can log in and deposit.

(not that these are shares, or even resemble shares).

Now a little guesswork, but you'll get the picture:
Now calc how much SEE had to pay for FPC it to own it 100% How much they did pay (1/3th)
But they rather 'cut their losses' than to pay the other 2/3 th !

cut their losses or thay couldnt raise the cash? we dont know, so its a distorted picture.

 

[millstreet2]

You did read the press release right? Excitement is good but hype isn't helping anyone.

I did read todays press release

Q. What quantities of Land Lot deeds are available?
A. Land Lot deeds are available in single units, as well as in stacks for 5, 10, 20, 50 and 100. For those interested in larger quantities of over 500 and need help or advise please contact info@mindark.com

So, I guess you are telling me MA officials haven't listed them on calypso auction since that FIRST press release?

I read todays, And have been going by what is happening in our universe.

I am not hyping anything. Last time I checked im in the thread that deals with deed opinions. Sure I am favoring these. But that does not mean I have not raised questions of my own, or acknowledged this system may have its flaws.

I am simply suggesting people give this system a chance before they assume things. And most people don't have the time that I do currently. So I am current with almost every issue raised on PCF for the past week.

I hope you understand im not hyping anything, simply laying out facts when I see them. And my opinion in threads that are about opinions. I hope this clarifies my earlier statements as not hype, but fact.

 

[Snuggins]

No, it's hype.

You assume, and tell others it's the case, that that email link means that MA will sell shares outside of the auction in a way that can't be tracked by Market History graphs when MA has stated clearly that the deeds (if you want to buy from them and not a player) are available exclusively on the auction. You are trying to hype the demand and scare people who are waiting to see how things pan out into buying one now because they won't be able to see the end of the sale coming.

That statement you quoted and the email link can very easily mean that MA will be happy to put a stack of more than 500 up if someone asks them to because they are unable to get the quantity they are looking for in what is currently offered. This interpretation that you haven't considered has the advantage of not being a direct contradiction of what they said in the press release, so I favor it over yours.

I am not trying to stop you from being excited or extolling what you see as the virtues of this offer. I am drawing the line when you make insinuations that have evidence of being false. That goes beyond your opinion into supposition and assumption that you stated as a logical conclusion based on false/incomplete premises.

Cheer on, but don't cross the line into hype please. It does more harm than good when you oversell this thing.

 

[Skaffen]

Sprung

This is a bail out, within a RL economic fiasco that is only just starting to bite.

Keep some perspective before overly committing. - Someone is giving up 'expected future revenue' for real cash now. If it's not enough then you will be pot committed, 'discretion is the better part of valour'.

 

[millstreet2]

No, it's hype.

You assume, and tell others it's the case, that that email link means that MA will sell shares outside of the auction in a way that can't be tracked by Market History graphs when MA has stated clearly that the deeds (if you want to buy from them and not a player) are available exclusively on the auction. You are trying to hype the demand and scare people who are waiting to see how things pan out into buying one now because they won't be able to see the end of the sale coming.

That statement you quoted and the email link can very easily mean that MA will be happy to put a stack of more than 500 up if someone asks them to because they are unable to get the quantity they are looking for in what is currently offered. This interpretation that you haven't considered has the advantage of not being a direct contradiction of what they said in the press release, so I favor it over yours.

I am not trying to stop you from being excited or extolling what you see as the virtues of this offer. I am drawing the line when you make insinuations that have evidence of being false. That goes beyond your opinion into supposition and assumption that you stated as a logical conclusion based on false/incomplete premises.

Cheer on, but don't cross the line into hype please. It does more harm than good when you oversell this thing.

Where do I assume once in what I said my friend? Please re-read what I wrote, Infact Its the exact opposite. I am warning other people from assuming!

"Pls consider this before you guys assume that the numbers the auction data shows is the total sales.

Its likely that players have contacted MA and potentially bought shares directly.

It wouldn't suprise me to login on one day around 20-30k shown on auction data, and for all of them to be sold out."

Is exactly what I said. You don't have to put words into my mouth because I am not a hype artist. I am not here to pump and dump anything. I am here because I felt that it was worth sharing with the community.

I just added a thought into peoples heads since the initial release and second release of information had a glaring difference in my opinion. Maybe I will have to bold it everytime I make sure to clarify if its a fact, or a opinion.

 

[Snuggins]

Where do I assume once in what I said my friend? Please re-read what I wrote, Infact Its the exact opposite. I am warning other people from assuming!

"Pls consider this before you guys assume that the numbers the auction data shows is the total sales.

Its likely that players have contacted MA and potentially bought shares directly.

It wouldn't suprise me to login on one day around 20-30k shown on auction data, and for all of them to be sold out."

Is exactly what I said. You don't have to put words into my mouth because I am not a hype artist. I am not here to pump and dump anything. I am here because I felt that it was worth sharing with the community.

I just added a thought into peoples heads since the initial release and second release of information had a glaring difference in my opinion. Maybe I will have to bold it everytime I make sure to clarify if its a fact, or a opinion.

You cut your quote a little short there didn't you?

"You can't judge demand by the auction data anymore... " That's a an assumption. A big one. And it contradicts what MA says in their press release.

"Its likely that players have contacted MA and potentially bought shares directly." This is also FALSE. It's not likely, in fact it's impossible unless MA is flat out lying in their press release.

I didn't say you are trying to pump and dump. I said quit making shit up!

 

[millstreet2]

You cut your quote a little short there didn't you?

"You can't judge demand by the auction data anymore... " That's a an assumption. A big one. And it contradicts what MA says in their press release.

"Its likely that players have contacted MA and potentially bought shares directly." This is also FALSE. It's not likely, in fact it's impossible unless MA is flat out lying in their press release.

I didn't say you are trying to pump and dump. I said quit making shit up!

How exclusive to the global auction is it when the same MA official is listing shares on calypso.

Global auction and Calypso are different. You ever thought they may want to offer a different level of security / advice to those investing SIGNIFICANT amounts of money... Is it out of the rhelm of possibility?

So where am I making anything up. I never said this was a fact, I said not to assume all are going to be sold through auction... I dont know how many more times we need to toss the ball back in each others court. I am not here to lie, make shit up or anything like that. But, If you cant get this through your head yet, nothing I say will.

 

[Snuggins]

How exclusive to the global auction is it when the same MA official is listing shares on calypso.

Global auction and Calypso are different. You ever thought they may want to offer a different level of security / advice to those investing SIGNIFICANT amounts of money... Is it out of the rhelm of possibility?

So where am I making anything up. I never said this was a fact, I said not to assume all are going to be sold through auction... I dont know how many more times we need to toss the ball back in each others court. I am not here to lie, make shit up or anything like that. But, If you cant get this through your head yet, nothing I say will.

Well my guess is that the answer there is that too many players didn't understand the difference between global auction and calypso auction and wasted money buying these deeds from resellers there. MA has started listing them on both auctions to fix that problem. They probably wrote the press release before that fix was implemented. That's not a material difference in what was said in the press release comparable to you saying that there are secret sales being conducted in private. Both global auction and calypso auction are only available inside EU and they are both visible to anyone with an avatar. Furthermore, a sale on either calypso auction or global auction will show up in the market history graph. You are splitting hairs now and you know it.

Look, you went too far in your sales pitch. Trying to pressure people with "Buy now! You never know when these will be gone, auction data is worthless in this case!" is not cool. I tried to point it out neutrally at first, but you continue to argue instead of conceding that maybe you overstepped.

I think you are reacting emotionally to my challenging your hype because you think I am trying to burn down these deeds. I am not. I am cautiously optimistic about the offer. But you are going bananas dude. Calm down and make sure you aren't spreading misinformation if you want people to take you seriously.

 

[MR. Fresh]

This guy Oberto, the one making shit up, {removed}...thats just what he does mate

 

[DRDoom]

There will be a lot of deeds re-listed for less before all will be sold. PPL will need peds faster than the deeds will be sold-out = lower prices.

I like the idea of players 'owning' a part of the planet, that's a great concept. But I think the ROI of 27-30% is major BS.

But just make the calc yourself:

Now MA "sells" 50% of the income from Caly for 6M US$. with a ROI of 30%/year that would mean an net income of 1.8M US$ a year.
This would mean if you own 100% of Caly the income is 3.6M US$ /year

Now a little guesswork, but you'll get the picture:
Now calc how much SEE had to pay for FPC it to own it 100% How much they did pay (1/3th)
But they rather 'cut their losses' than to pay the other 2/3 th !

Would they do that if it brought in 3.6M US$ net a year?

cut their losses or thay couldnt raise the cash? we dont know, so its a distorted picture.

Sorry but if you have a proven return of 30% banks and investors will fight to give you a loan.

 

[Sircus]

Sorry but if you have a proven return of 30% banks and investors will fight to give you a loan.

Hehe and the funny thing is that 30% ROI is only 25% of the GR so actual ROI is 120%

 

[Shoe]

I checked aution of deeds and see that total sells are about 7 pec..
If value is same as fragments that means about 7000 out of 60.000 deeds are sold now..
Sales figures are a lot lower now than first days.

I think they will sell but not within 6 months.

My 0.001 pec.

 

[LaraD]

Actually I checked auction yesterday and during the time I was online not one deed sold. I was very surprised, because I thought that at least stacks of 1 deed will be sold as soon as they are put into auction.
So i must conclude that sale has slowed down a lot already. Currently the demand seems to be satisfied. If it's true that only a small percentage of the deeds have been put into auction, this is frightening. Does anybody keep track how many deeds are sold?

Oh and if they won't sell immediately their price will fall and even less will be bought form MA.

Will MA be able to hold up the promise of a ROI of 30% if they are not able to sell all of them?

If the ROI gets lower it will get even harder to sell them.

 

[Slippery]

This is all I have to say

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat

 

[SpikeBlack]

"Its likely that players have contacted MA and potentially bought shares directly." This is also FALSE. It's not likely, in fact it's impossible unless MA is flat out lying in their press release.

wasn't there a direct email address if you wanted to buy more than 500 deeds.

Will MA be able to hold up the promise of a ROI of 30% if they are not able to sell all of them?

that can only determined by how well they perform as a company not how many deeds sell.