Question: Does Intelligence have an impact on learning speed (skill boost) ?

[John B Knight]

With the knowledge that strength increases the weight limit, agility increases the running speed, stamina increasing the health and regeneration speed - has there ever been a test to compare if intelligence increases the 'learning speed' (like giving a small skillboost) ?

 

[jqkill]

trying to figure that out would be a tough task

 

[SquirrellyWrath]

I thought the regen speed was changed to a fixed amount years ago? Stamina really only has a very small impact on HP something like 9 points to 1 hp

 

[slupor]

I thought the regen speed was changed to a fixed amount years ago? Stamina really only has a very small impact on HP something like 9 points to 1 hp

Regen speeds is fixed indeed, no matter how much Stamina you have.

As for the "small" impact on HP, that depends on your point of view.... 0.0925 HP per Stamina point is massive when you try to get beyond 300 HP and are counting HP gains in 0.01 increments.

/Slupor

 

[Ace Flyster]

Attributes also increase the speed you gain skills at.

Rgds

Ace

 

[Arangar]

Attributes also increase the speed you gain skills at.

Rgds

Ace

Elaborate please

 

[Ace Flyster]

Elaborate please

This was the reason MA nerfed attributes back in 2006? i think it was.

Anways, the example i know of:

Two avatars both at scanning level 0
Avatar 1 intelligence = 100
Avatar 2 intelligence = 10

After both avatars with the same tools scan the same mob the same number of times:

Avatar 1 proffessional level = 10
Avatar 2 proffessional level = 8

(made up numbers to show my case)

Skills gain quicker the higher level attribute you have. (Or more accurately, the green skill gain line contains more of the skill )

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: Which is why they are worth their weight in gold, naturally skilling, and why MA reversed the repeated agility mission

 

[Arangar]

This was the reason MA nerfed attributes back in 2006? i think it was.

Anways, the example i know of:

Two avatars both at scanning level 0
Avatar 1 intelligence = 100
Avatar 2 intelligence = 10

After both avatars with the same tools scan the same mob the same number of times:

Avatar 1 proffessional level = 10
Avatar 2 proffessional level = 8

(made up numbers to show my case)

Skills gain quicker the higher level attribute you have. (Or more accurately, the green skill gain line contains more of the skill )

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: Which is why they are worth their weight in gold, naturally skilling, and why MA reversed the repeated agility mission

Aha interesting, was not aware that there was a relation between them.
I remember tho that my agility got stuck at 98 for several years around that time, until the quests was introduced.

 

[Svarog]

Regen speed is 4hp each 20 seconds for everyone no matter of skills.

And although Stamina's contribution to HP is greatest among the attributes, others add to it too (agility - 1 full hp each 40 points, Strenght - 1 hp each 20 points, etc), so Stamina isn't any special.

People like to believe that skills does something beyond simply adding % to professions and HP (perception, lol) but I personally don't think so. From a coder point, why make something more complicated than it needs to be? To make things more interesting? Possibly, but it's a complexity no one would appreciate as no one is supposed to figure it out.

It's like writing poetry on the insides of tyres

 

[John B Knight]

Regen speed is 4hp each 20 seconds for everyone no matter of skills.

And although Stamina's contribution to HP is greatest among the attributes, others add to it too (agility - 1 full hp each 40 points, Strenght - 1 hp each 20 points, etc), so Stamina isn't any special.

People like to believe that skills does something beyond simply adding % to professions and HP (perception, lol) but I personally don't think so. From a coder point, why make something more complicated than it needs to be? To make things more interesting? Possibly, but it's a complexity no one would appreciate as no one is supposed to figure it out.

It's like writing poetry on the insides of tyres

Considering the very low amount of gains in skillpoints/professionlevels for any of the attributes my impression simply is 'why do we have attributes in the first place ?'
If you get high enough in your level progression they become more and more pointless in regards to their contribution to your profession levels, so yes i think that Mindark has written quite some 'poetry' into the source code when they started out with entropia - many things may have gotten 'streamlined' over the years but basic functionalities most likely remained.
Stamina nowadays may have been changed, but it used to be different in the early years and similar to agility other attributes most likely had their own effects and might still have them.
As Entropia is a game that is build to last an eternity in regards to 'skilling up' it would only make sense if mindark had build in a little reward for those loyal players who spent years supporting the company with their decay while still leaving the possibilty to reach any progresslevel through chipping for those wealthy enough to go for the fast lane.
It could very well be that each of the attributes give a slight skillboost to the professions its involved in, after all there has to be a reason why we still have attributes and why Mindark 'pulled the brakes' to avoid us getting to many attribute points.
If they wouldnt have any serious impact they could have just handed out attribute points like skillpoints up to and past 20000 for those who want to collect the untradeable points instead of tradeable skills.

 

[Svarog]

Considering the very low amount of gains in skillpoints/professionlevels for any of the attributes my impression simply is 'why do we have attributes in the first place ?'

It's easy - "hey, every other MMORPG has it, lets add it too!" . The same reasoning that gave us missions later even though no one asked and we did just well without them for years.

 

[voom]

It's easy - "hey, every other MMORPG has it, lets add it too!" . The same reasoning that gave us missions later even though no one asked and we did just well without them for years.

I have to disagree with you here I think you'll find a lot of the community did ask for exactly a mission type of feature in game.

 

[Svarog]

I have to disagree with you here I think you'll find a lot of the community did ask for exactly a mission type of feature in game.

Maybe. Now that community is sad because everyone sticks to killpoints grinding and avoids team hunting.

 

[voom]

Maybe. Now that community is sad because everyone sticks to killpoints grinding and avoids team hunting.

Yeah you could be right there.

Maybe we need some 'Shared Missions' whereby the mission has to be done in teams of say 2 to 6 people and the rewards are shared at the end.

But i guess that is for another thread

 

[AkiranBlade]

Regen speed is 4hp each 20 seconds for everyone no matter of skills.

It used to be a percentage of your total HP, when was this changed?

 

[Svarog]

It used to be a percentage of your total HP, when was this changed?

Somewhere around 2008.

 

[Muppis]

Stamina nowadays may have been changed, but it used to be different in the early years and similar to agility other attributes most likely had their own effects and might still have them.

If I'm not entirely mistaken, stamina was unattainable for a long period of time. All avatars started out with 9 up until a certain point, at which they fixed that so new avatars started with 1 instead. I presume it was used in the same way as today (i.e 0.0925 hp per stamina), but that they introduced the ability to actually gain more stamina!

 

[Norbert]

Intelligence has had effect on scanning gains for long time (also colouring gains when we looked at that), even pre vu-10, so i suspect also on other intelligence based skills. Some of extra gains we experienced could also have been due to skills within a "skill set" being behind, so with scanning for example computer use, analysis etc if sold out scan skill only.

I suspect also other attributes have same effect but harder to prove conclusively. Also gains due to higher attributes seems slower now, but that could be just my perception as haven't tested for long time.

 

[Oleg]

This was the reason MA nerfed attributes back in 2006? i think it was.

No, they reduced the starting values because they increased the speed at which low level skills (including attributes) were gained.

Two avatars both at scanning level 0
Avatar 1 intelligence = 100
Avatar 2 intelligence = 10

After both avatars with the same tools scan the same mob the same number of times:

Avatar 1 proffessional level = 10
Avatar 2 proffessional level = 8

The difference would be more likely explained by unlocked skills, and the contribution from Intelligence itself.

I don't believe I've ever seen any evidence that attributes affect skill gains, or any suggestion from an official source that they do.

 

[Ace Flyster]

No, they reduced the starting values because they increased the speed at which low level skills (including attribtes) were gained.



The difference would be more likely explained by unlocked skills, and the contribution from Intelligence itself.

I don't believe I've ever seen any evidence that attributes affect skill gains, or any suggestion from an official source that they do.

Fair enough, i cannot remember where someone did a test for it. There is a thread somewhere, not fool proof though i admit.

I do believe it myself.

Rgds

Ace

 

[Doer]

If I'm not entirely mistaken, stamina was unattainable for a long period of time. All avatars started out with 9 up until a certain point, at which they fixed that so new avatars started with 1 instead. I presume it was used in the same way as today (i.e 0.0925 hp per stamina), but that they introduced the ability to actually gain more stamina!

Yup that's right. Stamina has not influenced regen rate since i've been around (2005), and even if it did at any time before that, no one would know because everyone had 9.

Regen has also been nerfed several times, and we now all have 4/20s regardless of hp or stamina. I've been promoting a change to that for a couple years, but most people don't appear to care and MA would rather charge for the buff.

ETA I was going to say that i doubt Intelligence has ever affected skill rate but apparently some people have evidence. I'd like to see that because I don't remember ever seeing anything conclusive back in the day.

 

[Norbert]

No, they reduced the starting values because they increased the speed at which low level skills (including attribtes) were gained.



The difference would be more likely explained by unlocked skills, and the contribution from Intelligence itself.

I don't believe I've ever seen any evidence that attributes affect skill gains, or any suggestion from an official source that they do.

Few of us did tests with scanning and colouring years ago, but with some skills of a profession skill set existing during tests cannot be 100% sure. However skill gain volume per ped spent did increase with ones with higher intelligence.
As i have said though other factors could be at play with skills existing from profession skill group.

 

[SKULL69]

I thought the regen speed was changed to a fixed amount years ago? Stamina really only has a very small impact on HP something like 9 points to 1 hp

thats not a small amount but a big one

agi and intel have a much smaller amount of hp gained

 

[John B Knight]

Ok so if noone has a clear test, i guess im bound to make one myself.
My scan vehicle skill is close to 0 so chipping out that skill wouldnt hurt.
I also got quite some vehicles that i could spawn in a circle.
Intelligence is 92.
We would have to use the same scanner and scan same amount of vehicles - which should be large enough to make a difference - sample size atleast 2000-10000 scans depending how early a clear difference can be spottet - would take a few hours.


Any volunteers with different intelligence who would like to join the test and can start with 0 skillpoints in scan vehicle ?

 

[Norbert]

Ok so if noone has a clear test, i guess im bound to make one myself.
My scan vehicle skill is close to 0 so chipping out that skill wouldnt hurt.
I also got quite some vehicles that i could spawn in a circle.
Intelligence is 92.
We would have to use the same scanner and scan same amount of vehicles - which should be large enough to make a difference - sample size atleast 2000-10000 scans depending how early a clear difference can be spottet - would take a few hours.


Any volunteers with different intelligence who would like to join the test and can start with 0 skillpoints in scan vehicle ?

When we tested there was a definite difference in gains, but as i said earlier professions have skill "sets". So is possible that lowest skill in set catches up with others in some way to try to achieve the predicted balance.

Don't have zero scan tech but if you doing a scan fest would sure spwan some vehicles also and join.

 

[Svarog]

thats not a small amount but a big one

agi and intel have a much smaller amount of hp gained

Let's face it, even at the base 88hp one additional hp doesn't make a difference. As your stamina grows, its hp bonus becomes less relevant. Someone like Dan Petrov probably has like 40-50+ Stamina, but those 5 hp neither are noticeable in the fathomless depths of his health pool nor probably affect his gameplay much. It's nice to have but not something to pull your hair out over.

 

[slupor]

Let's face it, even at the base 88hp one additional hp doesn't make a difference. As your stamina grows, its hp bonus becomes less relevant. Someone like Dan Petrov probably has like 40-50+ Stamina, but those 5 hp neither are noticeable in the fathomless depths of his health pool nor probably affect his gameplay much. It's nice to have but not something to pull your hair out over.

I disagree with your statement on HP, every bit matters and one or two more HP make noticeable differences when hunting the same mob.

Even Dan dies from crits that are 0.1 over his HP which make him wish he had more health, just like the rest of us mere mortals.

 

[Oleg]

Let's face it, even at the base 88hp one additional hp doesn't make a difference. As your stamina grows, its hp bonus becomes less relevant. Someone like Dan Petrov probably has like 40-50+ Stamina, but those 5 hp neither are noticeable in the fathomless depths of his health pool nor probably affect his gameplay much. It's nice to have but not something to pull your hair out over.

Never ever listen to this advice.

 

[MG Mighty]

so yes i think that Mindark has written quite some 'poetry' into the source code when they started out with entropia - many things may have gotten 'streamlined' over the years but basic functionalities most likely remained.
Stamina nowadays may have been changed,

I don't doubt that it might been the case

but I find it very unlikely

since stamina could not be changed in any way until the first missions came.


But since it already had an effect (unless MA changed the base HP for avatars) I can understand that previous code could be there already and just could not be used.

 

[MG Mighty]

Ok so if noone has a clear test, i guess im bound to make one myself.
My scan vehicle skill is close to 0 so chipping out that skill wouldnt hurt.
I also got quite some vehicles that i could spawn in a circle.
Intelligence is 92.
We would have to use the same scanner and scan same amount of vehicles - which should be large enough to make a difference - sample size atleast 2000-10000 scans depending how early a clear difference can be spottet - would take a few hours.


Any volunteers with different intelligence who would like to join the test and can start with 0 skillpoints in scan vehicle ?

I doubt the above test will provide the answers you are looking for.


100 PEDs of decay will provide low ammount of skills so the diference most likelly will not have a significative statistical difference worth for the conclusions you want



AND

it requires another conditions

Both professional levels of the avatars must be identical and the others skills must be already at a very high level so that an increase in the TT value of those chippable skills gained during the tests isn't translated into a major increase on the professional levels.

Meaning even you would need to chip out all non general skills related to the activity and have both avatars with very high and similiar skills in the general tab.






On the other hand I can accept without further testing that high attributes related to the activity will have a 2-3% increase in the ammount of skill gains

Although not because the high attributes are causing the increase the skill gains

but due to the fact that the skill gains that should be going to attributes are being distributed to the other skills
(which also explains the halt in the progress of attributes)