General flaw with calypso economy.

[Hagbard Celine]

On thing that has bothered me since my first week at calypso. Empty towns full of empty shops. This might have been mentioned before(yea, ok, I know it has) But i got a little bit to fed up after doing such a stupid thing as spending time looking for one specific armor-piece at a ok price in a shop or booth and instead finding this:



This is the same thing that happens in RL when someone that does not care for its use owns a property If one want a planet that is alive, and not a bunch of overgrown shit that nobody ever visits, one should take measures that the estate marked is not in the pockets of investors that has no intent of using the estates what so ever.
Another point is the fallacy of said investors plan; to sell with profit. These shops and booths ain't worth shit, and the main reason for that: people do not go there because they would not expect to find something but empty shops

 

[mastermesh]

Beta building is in bad shape.

I will admit traveling up to Beta Bldg in Omegaton, it does look like a ghost town... Did they ever get that upside down booth fixed that was stuck on the ceiling, or get the weeds growing in the basement cut so that it does not look like an abandoned forest in there, lol. Wonder if that was MA|FPC's way of making a point that the owners of the estates in that building are not highly active?

Check out some of the other buildings though. There's quite a few booths and shops in Alpha & Delta that are always pretty well stocked.

Gamma isn't much better then Beta since it's so far from TP, but it's not too bad. I can't remember if Gamma or the other one is closest to the service center, but Delta is on the walkway up the hill between service center and tp.

 

[psychnosiz]

Yes, market value must be uphold to all costs, even if it would mean a part of the options not being used. I wonder how hard the market would crash if all storage & overpriced stuff (from MA & players) would be released at the same time.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Yes, market value must be uphold to all costs, even if it would mean a part of the options not being used.

An when the part not being used is the greater part of it leads to a dead and uninviting world.

I wonder how hard the market would crash if all storage & overpriced stuff (from MA & players) would be released at the same time.

I wonder how many people there would have been daily at omegatron if boots and shops where affordable enough for over 90% of them being stocked and operative at competitive prices.

 

[foxdude0486]

I do agree that running into shops constantly getting, "This person has not paid rent", when they have signs advertising their shop as if it were open. Shops with nothing in them. I do prefer shopping in actual shops rather than the auction as it feels more like I'm able to see what I'm buying instead of scrolling through a list of stuff and hoping to out bid someone.

 

[Eron²]

while i agree that there are shops that need managers that care again. the shops you posted are still under the control of MA/FPC's estate person. so in the case of those 3 shops there is nothing that players can do other then ask MA/FPC to auction them off, which they wont do since the area is already dead shop wise.

 

[Trina Xenophage]

while i agree that there are shops that need managers that care again. the shops you posted are still under the control of MA/FPC's estate person. so in the case of those 3 shops there is nothing that players can do other then ask MA/FPC to auction them off, which they wont do since the area is already dead shop wise.

Were they not sold due to the area being dead? or due to it would draw players possibly away from the mall shops?

Also we have no Idea how many of these have been sold and the deeds are sitting dormant and properties unclaimed in storage.

Before malls these areas in the housing sections always had players wandering around looking for stuff. I myslef spent many hours wandering around just learning what items were what and keeping track of market values for the first few months I played.

 

[Thorn]

There area few problems with shops and the economy. The major thing is everything being so damned expensive. We can fault MA for this for not releasing more of everything but for them it seemed like a good strategy to say hety look how valuable everything is. Well it`s back firing. And by everything including decent items and play time being so expensive it has severely hampered the growth of the player base leaving not enough of a market for shop owners or the larger economy.

Then we have the investors who thought that everything would only go up in value buying up shops and anything else they could in bulk to resell later that limited availability to people who might want to operate one just not at the cost it takes to do so. Who wants to pay out the ass for a shop, shopkeeper, store or whatever when the customer base is so small you either won`t make any money or even lose. Operating a store in EU is no easy feat and can be very time consuming if you are crafting all or most of your inventory. And also trying to buy items to resell in your shop or store can take alot of time. More than most people with a real life have.

Affordability brings more people playing and willing to stay. More players equals a larger market to serve. A larger market makes more things competitively priced. What MA has done is create inflated prices making many think that it`s all a good thing to invest in which in turn raised prices more for the real estate. In the short term it was a good strategy to make prospective players think gee look at the possibility. The lure of big bucks brought alot of players. Sadly most of them quickly found that all they could do was lose and the golden days were over. In the long term it has created a stagnant market where it is better to just not have a shop and have a pool of regular buyers for your goods that you sold face to face in pvp trade. Lower overhead more profit. Simple economics.

Now what I see is MA resorting to nickle and diming every player with regen mobs, extra decay and higher fees among other means to make up for the shortfalls they have by not having a larger player base. Be honest we are all feeling the crunch. We all feel the grind and the slow progress aside from a few players that have unique circumstances be it the skills, having been here early enough to have a good position in EU and the resourceful, the hard working and the just plain lucky ones. But for most of us it seems just a slow grind to the point where we finally decide it`s simply not worth it to play anymore. Or take the game for what it really is and just keep depositing what we need to play at the level we want to.

The question now is what if anything will be done about it. I don`t see new planets saving us as the economy will still be controlled by MA. The only hope is that the new planets bring in a ton more players. In at least the hundreds of thousands. But lacking some draw with each new one apart from the economy I don`t see it making much of a difference. Because any draw will have to be free or low cost to be worth it to these new players in order for them to stick around long enough and contribute to a healthy economy. And we know very well that little if anything is created or kept that does`nt generate decay, spending and ultimately revenue for MA.

EU is a business that has succumbed to the rampant greed and capitalism that has stifled it`s potential as the next generation in the way that people use the internet. The long term gain was sacrificed for the short term income. And the income that is gained will surely be put elsewhere to create even greater revenue such as the real life banking etc. Not given back to the community for years of loyalty and investment of time and money.

Flawed indeed!

 

[Kosh]

Just one comment on your screenshots: Marcus the Estate Broker is MA/FPC... its not a real avatar or investor, it just means this property has not been sold or claimed yet.

Regarding the general issue, the main problem with shops is that the auction system is by superior and more efficient than the shop system. Unless they make big changes to the auction and some changes to the shop system it will stay this way.

 

[lilac]

I'm still wondering if auto deducting shop fees and auto auctioning shops after X amount of days without ped on your card wouldn't be better for the flow of the game.

it would be really hard to implement, and there would need to be other mitigating factors so that owners wouldn't get completely screwed on the market value of shops (i.e. to make a shop more worth owning).

I just really think shop ownership being more accessible would be a selling point for new players, and that so many assets being tied up in the hands of speculators really detract from the "feel" of the game.

 

[Stave]

This is the same thing that happens in RL when someone that does not care for its use owns a property If one want a planet that is alive, and not a bunch of overgrown shit that nobody ever visits, one should take measures that the estate marked is not in the pockets of investors that has no intent of using the estates what so ever.
Another point is the fallacy of said investors plan; to sell with profit. These shops and booths ain't worth shit, and the main reason for that: people do not go there because they would not expect to find something but empty shops

Thats what Advertising is for, you advertise to people that your shop is whare it is.

No matter what you do these places wont be busy anyway for one simple fact.

The population isnt big enough, without the people it aint gonna fill up.

 

[Jambayze]

Ever since I figured out Marcus Calender was MA's "beard" owning all these estates, shops, houses, apartments, I wondered why. Why not have them active rent and tax paying properties? I would love to own a booth or cart somewhere and an apartment. But they just are not available. Not that they are too expensive for me, but they just are not available. Why keep these things out of play, yet visible? If you do not intend for players to use them, delete them. Just erase them from view. I go into apartment buildings, see booths and carts and shops on the ground floor, and they are all owned by Marcus. He has nothing to sell. It's wasted bandwidth. Shit or get off the pot, Marcus. Sell these properties or just delete them. Imagine the vibrant economy if all these booths and shops were player run? I thought I learned early on that the best way to make a profit was by selling to other players, not to TT stuff if you don't have to. Do not expect to make a profit off TT'ing loot, sell it to other players. The auction is okay, but limited.

I want a small booth, Marcus, PM me, we can work something out.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Just one comment on your screenshots: Marcus the Estate Broker is MA/FPC... its not a real avatar or investor, it just means this property has not been sold or claimed yet.

I am aware of that, Not claimed would be the issue. There is virtually no boots/shops that is not sold from ma/fpc yet; I have had this discussion with support earlyer.

 

[Few Scars]

I think there should be some small booths set up in Twins where most trade is done. Also instead of MA owning a booth with Marcus being uncontactable to buy it, it should be available to be purchased straight up! See a booth you like and buy it. I have seen many booths and houses I have liked which Marcus owns and are not for sale...sad really

 

[DeadShawn]

booth

I would love to own a booth, and an apartment. I didn't get an apartment because I didn't like how much the monthly rent was, and I didn't get a booth because I couldn't afford it...

 

[Mac]

There area few problems with shops and the economy. The major thing is everything being so damned expensive. We can fault MA for this for not releasing more of everything but for them it seemed like a good strategy to say hety look how valuable everything is. Well it`s back firing. And by everything including decent items and play time being so expensive it has severely hampered the growth of the player base leaving not enough of a market for shop owners or the larger economy.

Then we have the investors who thought that everything would only go up in value buying up shops and anything else they could in bulk to resell later that limited availability to people who might want to operate one just not at the cost it takes to do so. Who wants to pay out the ass for a shop, shopkeeper, store or whatever when the customer base is so small you either won`t make any money or even lose. Operating a store in EU is no easy feat and can be very time consuming if you are crafting all or most of your inventory. And also trying to buy items to resell in your shop or store can take alot of time. More than most people with a real life have.

Affordability brings more people playing and willing to stay. More players equals a larger market to serve. A larger market makes more things competitively priced. What MA has done is create inflated prices making many think that it`s all a good thing to invest in which in turn raised prices more for the real estate. In the short term it was a good strategy to make prospective players think gee look at the possibility. The lure of big bucks brought alot of players. Sadly most of them quickly found that all they could do was lose and the golden days were over. In the long term it has created a stagnant market where it is better to just not have a shop and have a pool of regular buyers for your goods that you sold face to face in pvp trade. Lower overhead more profit. Simple economics.

Now what I see is MA resorting to nickle and diming every player with regen mobs, extra decay and higher fees among other means to make up for the shortfalls they have by not having a larger player base. Be honest we are all feeling the crunch. We all feel the grind and the slow progress aside from a few players that have unique circumstances be it the skills, having been here early enough to have a good position in EU and the resourceful, the hard working and the just plain lucky ones. But for most of us it seems just a slow grind to the point where we finally decide it`s simply not worth it to play anymore. Or take the game for what it really is and just keep depositing what we need to play at the level we want to.

The question now is what if anything will be done about it. I don`t see new planets saving us as the economy will still be controlled by MA. The only hope is that the new planets bring in a ton more players. In at least the hundreds of thousands. But lacking some draw with each new one apart from the economy I don`t see it making much of a difference. Because any draw will have to be free or low cost to be worth it to these new players in order for them to stick around long enough and contribute to a healthy economy. And we know very well that little if anything is created or kept that does`nt generate decay, spending and ultimately revenue for MA.

EU is a business that has succumbed to the rampant greed and capitalism that has stifled it`s potential as the next generation in the way that people use the internet. The long term gain was sacrificed for the short term income. And the income that is gained will surely be put elsewhere to create even greater revenue such as the real life banking etc. Not given back to the community for years of loyalty and investment of time and money.

Flawed indeed!

QFT.

Thorn gets it.

 

[JingyiDai]

Should be general flaw with EU Proably all the other planets will have the same problem.

I doubt they are capable to improve it. We can try tell them , maybe this will be better and so.. most likely it will reduce the value of the sold estate....

I dont think they are smart to introdue (L) Deeds or dynamic maintainace fees or other smart constructions to improve this at all... no they wont do it.

What they do is -> hey man want to listen to live music in your appartment? pay me 1 millions peds

They think everyone is ND and someday we will all become a legend by hype up their tiny booth or crappy appartments as nightclub.

wondering how they justify those pricetags versus the functionality of the estates.

proably every time they just yeal -> oh think about the hangar! yes !
some day everyone will want them for 1 million peds,
yeh we should charge everything else for 1 millions peds too !
what a splendid idea, woho you will get a bonus!

 

[Dr.D.C.]

do u know entropiabay.com????? there is a long list of active shops and good deals

 

[mastermesh]

while i agree that there are shops that need managers that care again. the shops you posted are still under the control of MA/FPC's estate person. so in the case of those 3 shops there is nothing that players can do other then ask MA/FPC to auction them off, which they wont do since the area is already dead shop wise.

Marcus's name stays even if another avatar owns the place, so long as the other avatar did not claim it yet... VERY, VERY, VERY FLAWED system with that since it makes it look like two avatars own the place as deed says that the deed holder is "owner" and estate terminal says that the current owner, i.e. who used to own the place is "owner"... if EULA is just words on a computer screen you agree to, how is this much different,... ?

this sort of thing could lead to gigantic problems if avatar one wants avatar two to claim it but they dont - big issue with multiple people looking like owner, big issues with reputation if deed holder never claims it, making old owner look like someone that is a non-rent payer...

 

[$ilicondollar]

QFT.

Thorn gets it.

Yeap ...same feelings here...

Sil$

 

[Kosh]

I am aware of that, Not claimed would be the issue. There is virtually no boots/shops that is not sold from ma/fpc yet; I have had this discussion with support earlyer.

Fair enough, I was just making sure.

I still think the blame is on the system, not the players. Investing and speculating is a part of the RCE. The situation now is that shops require a lot of time to maintain and there is barely any extra profit to be made over selling in auction (which is easy and quick). That is the reason shops are unclaimed and deserted, if they were useful the demand would have gotten them sold already.

 

[Jambayze]

^^ there is a demand. Marcus won't set the real estate free. Many people wish to buy, and have the peds, but Marcus does not put them on the market. If they truly are sold but nobody claimed it, there should be a time limit. no claim in ...what ... 60? 90? days? and you lose your peds and the real estate, and up for sale again to someone who cares.

 

[mastermesh]

I think there should be some small booths set up in Twins where most trade is done.

I think the traders at Twin should just come on over to Amethera to trade where the shops are that don't have massive rent payments like the mall does, so the shop owners don't price gouge you like the shop owners in the malls.

Over in this continent, you don't like someone's offer, just shoot em. You can't do that in Twin, at least not outside of the ring.

Of course that won't happen since the resllers at Twin that are always price gouging buy from the shops in Amethera, and they don't want that little secret get out to their customers, so they huddle in Twin as middlemen to the n00bs that read that Twin is where it's at when it comes to trading, and just arrived at Twin for the first time to get the tp.