Hit rate in 2012

Doer

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There have been a few discussions about the effects of scopes and sights on hit percentage in the past, but this isn't a post about that. We have a general chat log now that shows all the hits and misses, and I'd like to see people reporting their hit and crit percentage for different weapons and for different HA/CHA levels. We think that the same HA on any weapon leads to the same hit percentage (80% + 1%*HA), but there are some anecdotal reports that it isn't true, so here's a chance to clear this issue up, one way or another. If we have enough participation, perhaps we can go on to look at the effect of attachments again.

I do have a python utility to parse out a section of the log (by date) and tally the hits, misses, and crit hits in it. The python interpreter to run it is a free download, so if you are interested, let me know.

I'm going to start by reporting on my results for the longu and argo missions. My finishers overlap my main weapon, but by assuming a random distribution of damage, I calculate that 89% of the shots were with main weapon, which was at HA 6.3. The finishers were maxed. There's no way to determine which misses go with which weapon, but I can do a rough composite based on hits with each weapon.

From the script:
> Out of a total of 172913 attacks, 150480 were hits (2719 or 0.018069 crits) and 22433 were misses, for a total hit rate of 0.870264

89% of hits @ 6.3 HA (0.8+0.063 = 0.863 expected hit rate)
11% of hits @ 10 HA (0.8+0.1 = 0.9 expected hit rate)

.89*0.863 + 0.11*0.9 = ~0.867 estimated composite hit rate vs. 0.870 measured. It seems that imk2 fits the established formula for hit rate. FYI I was using small attachments.

If we give the same treatment to crits, expected to be 0.02 for 10 CHA, we get a composite of 0.016, lower than the 0.018 measured, but this result fits the fact that Accuracy Enhancers were used for about 3/4 of the shots.

So, there don't appear to be any deviations from the old, established rules for HA and CHA with this setup.

I'll update when I have more data. In the meantime, share your results.
 

danimal01

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edit: nevermind

~Danimal
 
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STYRM

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There have been a few discussions about the effects of scopes and sights on hit percentage in the past, but this isn't a post about that. We have a general chat log now that shows all the hits and misses, and I'd like to see people reporting their hit and crit percentage for different weapons and for different HA/CHA levels. We think that the same HA on any weapon leads to the same hit percentage (80% + 1%*HA), but there are some anecdotal reports that it isn't true, so here's a chance to clear this issue up, one way or another. If we have enough participation, perhaps we can go on to look at the effect of attachments again.

I do have a python utility to parse out a section of the log (by date) and tally the hits, misses, and crit hits in it. The python interpreter to run it is a free download, so if you are interested, let me know.

I'm going to start by reporting on my results for the longu and argo missions. My finishers overlap my main weapon, but by assuming a random distribution of damage, I calculate that 89% of the shots were with main weapon, which was at HA 6.3. The finishers were maxed. There's no way to determine which misses go with which weapon, but I can do a rough composite based on hits with each weapon.

From the script:
> Out of a total of 172913 attacks, 150480 were hits (2719 or 0.018069 crits) and 22433 were misses, for a total hit rate of 0.870264

89% of hits @ 6.3 HA (0.8+0.063 = 0.863 expected hit rate)
11% of hits @ 10 HA (0.8+0.1 = 0.9 expected hit rate)

.89*0.863 + 0.11*0.9 = ~0.867 estimated composite hit rate vs. 0.870 measured. It seems that imk2 fits the established formula for hit rate. FYI I was using small attachments.

If we give the same treatment to crits, expected to be 0.02 for 10 CHA, we get a composite of 0.016, lower than the 0.018 measured, but this result fits the fact that Accuracy Enhancers were used for about 3/4 of the shots.

So, there don't appear to be any deviations from the old, established rules for HA and CHA with this setup.

I'll update when I have more data. In the meantime, share your results.

great! MOARRR data please!
 

jcfuller

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I am getting ready to do some more testing also.
With all due respect I don't believe you can do an accurate test without complete use of a weapon.
I have had 7 misses in a row as I've had many, many hits in a row without a miss.

My previus tests used primarily 2x0 sga axe, falx, tt sword.
Swordsman Hit -> 77
Swordsman Dmg -> 71

UL -> ~13% miss rate
L -> 9%-11% miss rate

I too wrote a parser that uses the chat file.

I start with a new chat file each run.

I start a run by entering chat and typing start.
At the weapons depletion I do the same but type end.
This allows more that one weapon use during a run.


In my parser I checked for my avi name and start | end.

I parsed for a line with "[] You inflicted" and "[] Critical hit - " to get hits and
"[] MISS" for misses.

I then could compare hits + misses to the wiki report of uses for that weapon, to see how close I was.

This time around I want to test some other items.

I am not truly sure how a miss is calculated?
Is there an official MA definition of how MISS'es are calculated?

Are misses tied to individual weapons?



How does the miss rate of the first 1000 shots of an opalo compare to the last 1000?
I am now in the process of depleting an opalo so I can repair to only a certain % for tests.


James
 

Svarog

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Entropia Tracker client has a combat log function that calculates all the stats in real-time (you should not use finishers though because you set the weapon you use in the client before the run).

I once used it for 150 ped run with maxed LR32 and then for another 150 ped run with jmkIII (HA 5.5, CHA 7.2). Hit rates and crit hit rates for the runs were 88.31% and 2.058%, 86.89% and 1.256%, respectively.
 

girtsn

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Hello.
Yea since some paranoids posted their hit rate is 80% with maxed weapons I wanted to show them how crazy they are as well.
This tracker is the king https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forum/tools-utilities/201196-hunt-stats-tracker.html as it allows to track multiple weapons.
On maxed nonSIB weapons, ~3 runs which is ~ 5000 peds ammo turnover and ~ 28000 shots
DOA ISH Hit% 89.77
ML-35 Hit% 90.02
M71A1 Hit% 89.72
My conclusions from this - liars on forum (doh, thats a fact). And, close range weapons are probably affected by the mob hits thus ML-35 better hit rate than DOA. Also, I think 90% is what it is, ideally. Demonstrated nicely by ML.
 

Jimmy B

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I'd be interested in the python utility Doer. My tagger and finisher overlap, but neither overlaps my main gun generally. I only use maxed stuff at the moment though, so my data won't be much use for looking at stuff by HA. I do use an assortment of weapons though, so might be useful for seeing if hit rate varies across weapons.
 

girtsn

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Try https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forum/tools-utilities/201196-hunt-stats-tracker.html - open-source and it can track multiple weapons.
I'd be interested in the python utility Doer. My tagger and finisher overlap, but neither overlaps my main gun generally. I only use maxed stuff at the moment though, so my data won't be much use for looking at stuff by HA. I do use an assortment of weapons though, so might be useful for seeing if hit rate varies across weapons.
 

danimal01

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Hello.
Yea since some paranoids posted their hit rate is 80% with maxed weapons I wanted to show them how crazy they are as well.
This tracker is the king https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forum/tools-utilities/201196-hunt-stats-tracker.html as it allows to track multiple weapons.
On maxed nonSIB weapons, ~3 runs which is ~ 5000 peds ammo turnover and ~ 28000 shots

My conclusions from this - liars on forum (doh, thats a fact). And, close range weapons are probably affected by the mob hits thus ML-35 better hit rate than DOA. Also, I think 90% is what it is, ideally. Demonstrated nicely by ML.

Your numbers seem correct. I get similar numbers while using the imkII and the mm. around 87.45% so not quite 90% like you (since you are maxed and I am not) Intrestingly enough this yeilds a dpp rate of 3.02... The program I used to check this was EntropiaTracker.. Not sure if that is correct or not but it is about a .1 dpp variation from entropiawiki.com; which lists that I should be around 2.9~ dpp

~Danimal
 

Doer

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Thanks for link to the tracker, Girtsn, and data. I'm using win 8 and had a bad experience trying to get tracker (uh, the better-known tracker :)) working, so I preferred to just roll my own simple parser than worry about getting something more complex working. I'll take a look at that tracker out of curiosity because I did do some autoit scripts a few years ago.

jcfuller, i'm not entirely sure what you mean by "without the complete use of the weapon". If you mean not using any other weapons during the data set, I agree that would be ideal, but not practical in this case. I was first hunting, and only as an afterthought extracting what information I could from it. You have a good idea with a chat-based trigger; I might add that to my script if I don't find the tracker useful/functional.

I thought there was a way to attach a file to a post, but I don't see one, so here's the parse script. Standard disclaimer code is ugly not guaranteed to work use at your own risk may club baby seals etc.

Code:
from datetime import date
# The EU chat log is typically in C:/Users/**your account name**/Documents/Entropia Universe/chat.log
chat_log_location = "C:/Users/##You must enter correct directory here##/Documents/Entropia Universe/chat.log"
# Edit these to pare down the data from the main log to specific dates
start_date = date(2012,5,27)
end_date = date(2012,5,28)


# Parse the EU chat.log and extract the local chat lines from start_date to end_date
# Local chat lines are saved to local.log in the active directory (where script is located)
def parseLocal(start_date=None, end_date=None):
    chat_log = open(chat_log_location, encoding="utf-8")
    local_log = open("local.log",'w', encoding="utf-8")
    line_count = 0
    badline_count = 0
    local_count = 0    
    for line in chat_log:
        line_count += 1
        if line[0] != '2':
            badline_count += 1
            continue
        line_date = date(int(line[0:4]),int(line[5:7]),int(line[8:10]))
        if end_date and line_date > end_date:
            break
        if start_date and line_date < start_date:
            continue
        if line[21] == 'L':         # "2012-05-05 16:31:59 [Local"
            local_log.write(line)
            local_count+=1
    chat_log.close()
    local_log.close()
    print("%i local chat lines were saved to local.log, from %i lines parsed (%i bad lines skipped)."%(local_count,line_count,badline_count))

# Parse the general chat or extracted local chat events (recommended) for attack events.
# These events are saved to damage_log without the preceding date, time, etc.
# The information in these lines is also parsed and output to a CSV file with three
# columns: Do or Receive in the first, damage amount in second (or MISS), and "crit" in third
def parseDamage(log_name = "local.log"):
    # The five damage messages (besides "MISS"):
    # You take
    # You inflicted
    # Critical hit - additional damage! You inflict
    # Critical hit
    # Vehicle takes 
    local_log = open(log_name, encoding="utf-8")
    damage_log = open("damage.log",'w', encoding="utf-8")
    damage_numbers = open("damage.csv",'w', encoding="utf-8")
    line_count = 0
    attack_count = 0
    hits = 0
    misses = 0
    crit_hits = 0
    crits = 0
    for line in local_log:
        line_count += 1
        if (line[31:35] == "MISS" and len(line) < 38) or "damage." in line:
            truncated = line[31:]
            if truncated[0] == 'V': #vehicle damage
                continue
            damage_log.write(truncated)
            if truncated[4] == 't':
                damage_numbers.write("Receive," + truncated[9:13] + '\n')
            elif truncated[0] == 'M' and len(truncated) < 8:
                damage_numbers.write("Do,MISS" + '\n')
                misses += 1
            elif truncated[5] == 'n':
                if truncated[18] == 'p': #(one digit damage)
                    damage_numbers.write("Do," + truncated[14:17] + '\n')
                elif truncated[19] == 'p': #(two digit damage)
                    damage_numbers.write("Do," + truncated[14:18] + '\n')
                elif truncated[20] == 'p': #(three digit damage)
                    damage_numbers.write("Do," + truncated[14:19] + '\n')
                else:
                    print("Inflicted damage value unparseable: "+truncated)
                    continue
                hits += 1
            elif truncated[0] == 'C':
                if truncated[38] == 'i': # "You inflict"
                    if truncated[38+9] == '.': #(one digit damage)
                        damage_numbers.write("Do," + truncated[38+8:38+11] + ",crit\n")
                    elif truncated[38+10] == '.': #(two digit damage)
                        damage_numbers.write("Do," + truncated[38+8:38+12] + ",crit\n")
                    elif truncated[38+11] == '.': #(three digit damage)
                        damage_numbers.write("Do," + truncated[38+8:38+13] + ",crit\n")
                    else:
                        print("Inflicted crit damage value unparseable: "+truncated)
                        continue
                    crit_hits += 1                        
                else:
                    damage_numbers.write("Receive," + truncated[38+5:38+10] + ",crit\n")
                    crits += 1
            else:
                print("Unknown damage message: "+truncated)
            attack_count+=1
    local_log.close()
    damage_log.close()
    damage_numbers.close()
    print("Attack events have been saved to damage.log and the parsed values to damage.csv.\n")
    print("There were %i attack event lines within %i lines parsed."%(attack_count,line_count))
    attacks = hits+misses+crit_hits
    total_hits = hits+crit_hits
    print("Out of a total of %i attacks, %i were hits (%i or %f crits) and %i were misses, for a total hit rate of %f"%(attacks,total_hits,crit_hits,crit_hits/float(total_hits),misses,total_hits/float(attacks)))
    
parseLocal(start_date, end_date)
parseDamage()
 

jcfuller

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To tell the truth I was tying miss rate to an individual weapon.
I thought you should see the same miss rate from one complete use of a weapon to another.
A couple runs today with a Kat Det on Atrox show this is not the case with a low of 11.1% and
a high of 13.9% miss rate.

James
 

Jimmy B

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Cool, thanks Doer and girts, I'll check those out over the weekend.
 

Fatboy

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There have been a few discussions about the effects of scopes and sights on hit percentage in the past, but this isn't a post about that. We have a general chat log now that shows all the hits and misses, and I'd like to see people reporting their hit and crit percentage for different weapons and for different HA/CHA levels. We think that the same HA on any weapon leads to the same hit percentage (80% + 1%*HA), but there are some anecdotal reports that it isn't true, so here's a chance to clear this issue up, one way or another. If we have enough participation, perhaps we can go on to look at the effect of attachments again.

I do have a python utility to parse out a section of the log (by date) and tally the hits, misses, and crit hits in it. The python interpreter to run it is a free download, so if you are interested, let me know.

I'm going to start by reporting on my results for the longu and argo missions. My finishers overlap my main weapon, but by assuming a random distribution of damage, I calculate that 89% of the shots were with main weapon, which was at HA 6.3. The finishers were maxed. There's no way to determine which misses go with which weapon, but I can do a rough composite based on hits with each weapon.

From the script:
> Out of a total of 172913 attacks, 150480 were hits (2719 or 0.018069 crits) and 22433 were misses, for a total hit rate of 0.870264

89% of hits @ 6.3 HA (0.8+0.063 = 0.863 expected hit rate)
11% of hits @ 10 HA (0.8+0.1 = 0.9 expected hit rate)

.89*0.863 + 0.11*0.9 = ~0.867 estimated composite hit rate vs. 0.870 measured. It seems that imk2 fits the established formula for hit rate. FYI I was using small attachments.

If we give the same treatment to crits, expected to be 0.02 for 10 CHA, we get a composite of 0.016, lower than the 0.018 measured, but this result fits the fact that Accuracy Enhancers were used for about 3/4 of the shots.

So, there don't appear to be any deviations from the old, established rules for HA and CHA with this setup.

I'll update when I have more data. In the meantime, share your results.

I thought all the old test for eco(ness) assumed an 8% miss rate?

Now you are saying it is 12+/-%? Or am i reading that wrong

If it is 12% miss rate now and it used to be 8% thats a very large increase (50%)

Did i Miss something here?
 

Fatboy

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Yes.. His main weapon is not maxed :)

008 :cool:

That makes more sense if his wep is not maxed but I guess I stil have 2 questions

1. was the old 8% miss rate (on maxed weps) what was used for al the eco tests and,

2. what is the miss rate now - (I am fairly sure its more than 8%)

ok 3 questions

3. How does that impact the eco(ness) calculations? Maybe someone can show how it impacts a maxed H400?
 

Spawn

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thank you for coming back to entropia Doer..
 

Doer

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That makes more sense if his wep is not maxed but I guess I stil have 2 questions

1. was the old 8% miss rate (on maxed weps) what was used for al the eco tests and,

2. what is the miss rate now - (I am fairly sure its more than 8%)

ok 3 questions

3. How does that impact the eco(ness) calculations? Maybe someone can show how it impacts a maxed H400?

Well your confusion is understandable. We've never nailed down the exact hit rate, but two different possible expressions for it have been:
0.8 + HA*.01 (maxed is 90%) This is probably the most widely-accepted.
0.8 + HA*.012 (maxed is 92%)
(And there's a different one for PvP that depends on the relative skill level of attacker and attacked, but that's a different thread.)

The purpose of this thread is to:
  1. find if this is still a good approximation
  2. find if different weapons have different maximum hit rates
  3. see if we can more precisely verify/establish the formula

My first posted data is consistent with #1 to within a small margin. That there always seems to be that margin is one of the puzzles we might address.

thank you for coming back to entropia Doer..

:) Thanks Spawn. Good to see familiar faces around!
 

jcfuller

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Doer,
Here is a small sample using a Kat Det on atrox.
I used my own parsing app and as mentioned above I thought each use of a weapon would be the same so my app was written with this in mind. As shown there is a rather large swing from one run to another.

The results may be a bit skewed. When the Det was done I stop parsing the data but the mob was finished with a kat honor. This would continue the process the system uses to determine misses I assume.
There also were some forrays in between runs.

The average looks to be about what is expected?

My stats on Determination:
HA = 7.7
CHA =8.8

James
Code:
tot
hits	miss	crit	hit%	crit%

706	98	12	86.12	1.7
706	89	10	87.39	1.42
706	79	17	88.81	2.41	
706	102	6	85.55	0.85	
706	81	11	88.53	1.56	
706	89	10	87.39	1.42	
704	79	11	88.78	1.56	
706	87	14	87.68	1.98	
707	81	8	88.54	1.13	
706	95	10	86.54	1.42	
705	87	11	87.66	1.56	
706	77	9	89.09	1.27	
706	81	10	88.53	1.42	
705	102	13	85.53	1.84	
706	82	13	88.39	1.84	
703	70	14	90.04	1.99	

Average:		87.79	1.59
 

danimal01

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I have some finalized results from my last run and the data is here:

Total Damage Dealt: 1069535
Total Hits: 16911
Total Misses: 2507
Hit Rate: 87.08%
Critical Hits: 368
Critical Hit Rate: 2.176%
DMG/PEC: 2.97

A-3 Justifier Mk.II Improved + A203 (most eco setup according to entropedia)

Rifle Hit = 67.82
Rifle Dmg = 68.53

My levels in rifle are significantly lower than my pistol level.. but my DMG/PEC ratio is still better than any other L weapon could give me ;)

Anyways, I hope this information helps you.. I'll be doing another test using Mod Merc here shortly..

~Danimal
 

Ze-Tomb Raider

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My carefully tallied sample.

Shots: 42251
Hits: 38032
Misses: 4219
Crits: 751
Crits/Hit: 1.974653%
Crits/Shot: 1.777473%
Hit rate: 90.01444%
Total Damage: 1112996.6
Damage/Hit: 29.26474
Damage/Shot: 26.34249
Damage/PEC: 2.948566
Damage/PEC (avg MU): 2.744494

The setup: Riker UL2 (L) + A103.
Completely maxed.

Hope the information helps.
 

Doer

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Thanks for the results. Danimal's are interesting for the unusually high crit rate. Ze-Tomb Raiders represent very nicely the ideal maxed weapon outcome expected by our function.

So far there's nothing to suggest that any weapons deviate from that function.

I have some more numbers from argo scout hunting:

Out of a total of 13602 attacks, 11981 were hits (187 or 0.015608 crits) and 1621 were misses, for a total hit rate of 0.880826

>>> fraction_imk2 = 2*(4185/11981)
>>> fraction_imk2
0.6986061263667473
>>> 0.864*fraction_imk2 + 0.9*(1-fraction_imk2)
0.874850179450797 (Expected composite hit rate)
>>> 1.6*fraction_imk2 + 2*(1-fraction_imk2)
1.7205575494533012 (Expected composite crit rate)


The actual hit rate of 0.881 is a bit higher than the 0.875 expected, while the actual crit rate is lower (1.6% vs 1.7%), but this is a small sample size and again, i'm deconvoluting the data rather than using discrete data for imk2 hits and misses and finisher hits and misses. The finisher here was a maxed melee weapon.
 
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jcfuller

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Doer,
I believe you and I both are calculating total uses using hits + miss + criticals.
This is not taking into account completly missed range shots or hitting a corpse with melee.

While it may not be significant with the numbers you are using it is with a 2x0 axe when you hit a corpse
a couple of times by mistake.

For total uses I think the before and after weapon decay should be used if the weapon is not completely used up.

James
 

danimal01

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Thanks for the results. Danimal's are interesting for the unusually high crit rate. Ze-Tomb Raiders represent very nicely the ideal maxed weapon outcome expected by our function.

So far there's nothing to suggest that any weapons deviate from that function.

I have some more numbers from argo scout hunting:

Out of a total of 13602 attacks, 11981 were hits (187 or 0.015608 crits) and 1621 were misses, for a total hit rate of 0.880826

>>> fraction_imk2 = 2*(4185/11981)
>>> fraction_imk2
0.6986061263667473
>>> 0.864*fraction_imk2 + 0.9*(1-fraction_imk2)
0.874850179450797 (Expected composite hit rate)
>>> 1.6*fraction_imk2 + 2*(1-fraction_imk2)
1.7205575494533012 (Expected composite crit rate)


The actual hit rate of 0.881 is a bit higher than the 0.875 expected, while the actual crit rate is lower (1.6% vs 1.7%), but this is a small sample size and again, i'm deconvoluting the data rather than using discrete data for imk2 hits and misses and finisher hits and misses. The finisher here was a maxed melee weapon.

Thanks Doer! I made sure to do a big run so that way there was no deviation or convoluted data.. I can try another run later with the imk2 but currently I'm gearing up to do a MM run :)

~Danimal
 

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Shamelessly copied Ze-Tomb Raider's format to add two data points...


Isis CB19 (L) + Fi/Ra/Co Beast (fully maxed)
Shots: 24702
Hits: 22148
Misses: 2554
Crits: 460
Crits/Hit: 2.07694%
Crits/Shot: 1.86220%
Hit rate: 89.66076%
Total Damage: 1006323.0
Damage/Hit: 45.43629
Damage/Shot: 40.73852
Damage/PEC (TT): 2.87275




Herman ASI-20 Arctic (L) + Fi/Ra/Co Beast (fully maxed)
Shots: 17017
Hits: 15338
Misses: 1679
Crits: 303
Crits/Hit: 1.97549%
Crits/Shot: 1.78057%
Hit rate: 90.13340%
Total Damage: 822776.7
Damage/Hit: 53.64302
Damage/Shot: 48.35028
Damage/PEC (TT): 2.89211


*Hopefully the sample sizes are large enough for some relevance
 
Last edited:

danimal01

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Shamelessly copied Ze-Tomb Raider's format to add two data points...


Isis CB19 (L) + Fi/Ra/Co Beast (fully maxed)
Shots: 24702
Hits: 22148
Misses: 2554
Crits: 460
Crits/Hit: 2.07694%
Crits/Shot: 1.86220%
Hit rate: 89.66076%
Total Damage: 1006323.0
Damage/Hit: 45.43629
Damage/Shot: 40.73852
Damage/PEC (TT): 2.87275




Herman ASI-20 Arctic (L) + Fi/Ra/Co Beast (fully maxed)
Shots: 17017
Hits: 15338
Misses: 1679
Crits: 303
Crits/Hit: 1.97549%
Crits/Shot: 1.78057%
Hit rate: 90.13340%
Total Damage: 822776.7
Damage/Hit: 53.64302
Damage/Shot: 48.35028
Damage/PEC (TT): 2.89211


*Hopefully the sample sizes are large enough for some relevance

Did you plug in the MU% for your weapons? If not then it calculates it at cost...

~Danimal
 

Norm

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Did you plug in the MU% for your weapons? If not then it calculates it at cost...

~Danimal

Yes, I track both TT and MU. But for these calculations, I ignored it since different people would pay different MUs. So, my Dmg/PEC stats are strictly TT value (no MU) and would need to be adjusted based on whatever MU you might actually pay.
 
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danimal01

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Yes, I track both TT and MU. But for these calculations, I ignored it since different people would pay different MUs. So, my Dmg/PEC stats are strictly TT value (no MU) and would need to be adjusted based on whatever MU you might actually pay.

Okay, thats what I thought since the dpp was unusually high for those L weapons that you used :) I guess I understand what you meant by "(TT)" now ;)

~Danimal
 

rhogenbe

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It might be useful to know if there are scope and lasers attached to the weapons.
It might be of influence. I am at the moment unclear of what the effect is of those on hit / crit rate.

Cheers
Siam
 

danimal01

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It might be useful to know if there are scope and lasers attached to the weapons.
It might be of influence. I am at the moment unclear of what the effect is of those on hit / crit rate.

Cheers
Siam

Hasn't it already been established that Scopes/Lasers only effectively increase the HIT rate by 1% on RANGED weapons?

~Danimal
 
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