How safe are our peds in MAs bank account?

Honesty I can see the exchange rate change before any possible belly up'ing by MA. Unless your blind to things changing in game or some rapid changes by MA we should be all safe as we were before this recession was underway. If you are truely worried about your money you should just withdraw and spend it elsewhere. But for a person like me who considers it a part investment and a part entertainment. It's like buying an Xbox 360 and realizing the value is dropping and not going up which I never did expect to go up anyway. =)
 
Turns, my dear Turns. You still have peddies left to worry about? I thought you burned it all crafting :D
 
Furthermore remember under the EULA our only recourse is to the ped value of any deposits. I remember the EULA was changed regarding items "owned" but I can't remember if that was only limited to PED value.

I guess that is the real risk of buying virtual items for real cash.

Firstly, you're not buying virtual items with real cash. You're buying game currency - Peds. You can have your peds back into money if u like, but it's peds that buy/borrow MA's virtual items.

Secondly your entitled to your tt ped value back. Although typically a massive difference, only tt is known about, trade value is highly subjective, based upon what the last guy paid. Of course it should be noted that in a mass sale-out the trade value decreases, to the point where noone is buying and thus items have no value. Therefore it can be said, that at the point MA cease to exist, no item can be bought thus no item has value, really tt back is quite proper.

What's being missed, is the idea that you elect to pay what YOU percieve the value of an item to be, based upon the 'social sheep' factor of how much the last person paid, it aint MA's fault you decide to overvalue items. They already put different tt values on items, it's other people that elevate the value further.

Of course this is all complete nonsense, the EU model has been running for a long time, and it'll take a heck of alot to shut it down completely. The primary reason you can feel safe about your tt value held by MA, is that they don't put themselves into a liability situation, by promising to pay back silly amounts of percieved trade value. They can opperate quite dandy if ppl with high value items lose value by being sold on at a loss, as the only concern is the tt value.

I'm very confident with my money converted in EU and ped value held by MA. The only true concern is the ability of other people to buy my items, as this determines their value. While some items may stand to loose some value, the majorty will not and those items losing value will only do so my a small amount.

The EU economy is self reinforcing, as one person says 'this is too expensive for me' another person steps up to the challenge. As the value of items do drop, the drop is seen as an oportunity to buy, which stabalises the market.

Right now, with the dollar trading with such might and impressive value ;) people get alot more Ped via currency exchange though the dollar. Unless of course you're American, in which case it sux :laugh: This means ppl have more peds to spend, and at the same time the percieved value of those peds decreases. This makes ppl spend money, and when they spend money, the market is stable.

Where else can you invest your money, that gives you entertainment, high growth potential and relative safety with a minimum of the capital cash back if it all goes to hell??

My only concern would be cashing out while the dollar sux, think how much money you'll lose. MA don't benefit, but you'll lose for no real reason. Then after 1/2 a year or so when u realise that EU is alive and well, and you invest again, you'll have a double whammy hit. 1.Items in EU will increase in value. 2.Dollar is stronger again and ur deposits mean less peds (for non americans).
 
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The Banking thing is not isolated to the U.S., thieves use same model every where.

I oddly enough feel my cash is safer here than in the real world. Game has all different types of ppl, with different types of jobs, in different countries. If this game closes cause of international global issues, you got more to worry about than your money that is now worth what it is...just a paper promise, attached to nothing. I O U what its worth....
 
What a great response - be positive and keep depositing - everything will be fine. Tell that to the 300,000 UK savers in Icesafe (incidentally don't you find it ironic that it is not global warming that has caused Iceland to go into meltdown !)

Threats of a diplomatic incident today if Iceland had followed up with there decision to only guarantee their nationals savings in this bank. That could have been interesting...
Gordon Blunder throwing his toys out of the pram..!!
 
I thought MA considers all deposits to be income and all withdrawls to be expenses. Isn't that the case? I haven't looked at the latest financial statement, but I don't remember them even referring to ingame PEDs as an outstanding debt. I guess their assumption is that you will spend all of your PEDs before you get around to withdrawing them. If I am wrong, I'd appreciate being corrected by someone with more direct knowledge.

Incorrect… its listed some where as a liability or something to that extent there is a statement / earnings post some where on this forum that shows that MA is making way less profits then they used to.. and in this report does bring up the issue of peds not in circulation but on aviators accounts.


ftp://ftp.mindark.se/reports/Interim_Statement_Q2_2008.pdf

Take a better look...
Deposits are considered as "contingent liabilities".
"Operative income" is the funds deposited and withdrawn, withdrawals are no losses.

this is the post after reading more , see this poster has more info on the matter
 
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someone hinted at it and i've read elsewhere that Swedish banking collapsed about 10 years ago and had a major state bail out. so, given they probably learnt from the lesson, Swedish banks are probably the safest about with none of this "toxic" debt and mabye just a few issues with liquidity like everyone else. So i'd say the actually cash MA has deposited is safe.

assuming MA keep deposits - decay generated income aside as the fabled contigent liability, then all Ped are secured too. there will only be a problem if avatars panic and try to dump and with draw, in which case the first few will probably get the perceived market value of their items but others wont. skills will be worthless which would probably discourage those first few to bother (they'd have to put money in to buy the ESI, then sell for knocked down prices). the only sensible option is to hold and wait.
 
OK, so withdrawals are basically treated as "refunds", and deposits minus withdrawals = "net sales", right? That's what I was trying to say.


I am guessing that "contingent liabilities" means something that may become a liability depending on various factors, but I do not understand the term "memorandum items". Any idea where they show up on the balance sheet?

The thing that really confuses me, is that there are about 39 million SEK in PEDs floating around, but I don't see where they show up on the balance sheet.

They show about 69 million SEK in total assets. As liabilities, they list 51 million in "equity", which they translate to 5 SEK/share for each of the 11 million shares outstanding. Plus, they list 18 million in other liabilities.

So, where are the PEDs in all of that? I must be missing something, but I'm not an accountant. If something happens and we all start withdrawing our PEDs, do they come out of the "Equity"? Or do the shareholders get their money first?

"Memorandum items" is things that can become expansives sometime in the future, but it's not sure thats going to be the case. It's not a liability so it's not in the balance sheet, but they take it up below the line of the balance sheet like a risk warning that maybe this amount can be a cost in the near future.

So if all the players should "cash out" their TT value and PED, MA would be hit by a cost of 39MPED, the equity would go down with same amount. To judge if MA can repay all players if they should withdraw there TT PED value you must:
1. Look at the Equity. Is Equity higher then the "Memorandium PED"? If yes, thats good.
2. But you should also look at the Assets. Is total assets exluding the two first assets "Intangble assets" and "tangible assets" greater then "Menomradium PED"? i.e. do they have the assets to make the payment.

My guess is that MA is very careful and are keeping an equity level that's high enough not to make us start questioning their ability to meet our withdrawals. And if the equity falls to much they just decrease the loot and mining/crafting return.......
 
After a few months in PE I came to the conclusion any deposit I make to MA is a complete write off.

The only way that MA could protect our money would be to setup a trust externally managed that all our deposits were paid into. MA could take the interest earned on it and from our decaying items.

The trust would hold our tt value only so if anything did happen to MA our money didn't go with them atleast not completely.
 
hmmm :scratch: I would think MA would just lengthen the time (even more) to convert your PED into real money if things start looking bad on their balance sheet.

If everyone kneejerked and decided to try and cash out all at the same time I would think MA has stop gaps in place to limit the impact on their bottom line. Maybe they would go even as far as to temporarily suspend withdrawls until things look better but that is just my opinion. I would think that would have to be a last ditch effort because EU's whole premise is that you can deposit and withdraw real funds.

There is a lot of hysteria going on right now concerning all of this economic upheaval some is warranted and other is just media spinning fear to sell ad time or papers. I am concerned but in reality what can I really do about it other than keep chuggin along trying to make it day to day.

Only thing that truely gets under my skin is to see CEOs getting million dollar a month consulting fees for dragging the rest of us into their mess. It also peeves me to hear about companies on bail out by the government spending ridiculous amounts patting themselves on the back going on retreats. IMHO that is just skewed there needs to be some accountability somewhere.
 
MindArk "garantuee" us the pure tt-value we have in EU.
Some speculations here, but my guess is that this garantuee is actually
the 32million SEK they got from BG... ;)
 
If everyone kneejerked and decided to try and cash out all at the same time I would think MA has stop gaps in place to limit the impact on their bottom line.

Thinking about pressing that cashout key :lam:
But wait, you've got skills to sell :umn:
Time to :smoke: some peds to get ESI's
Oh wow look how much I've made from selling my skillz :censored:
 
I think the general safety concern is not whether there will be a run on the PED bank, as such. The bigger question is what happens if net deposits no longer outpace expenses? There looks to be enough cash in reserve currently to cover PED balances, but not much more. The fact that they are listed as equity and not as actual debt is a little scary.
My question is what is there to prevent them from using these reserves as operating capital if things slow down? Additionally, where do depositors rank as opposed to shareholders if push comes to shove? Who gets paid first? What about severence packages if employees get laid off?

To my way of thinking, our PEDs are reasonably safe as long as things are going well. But, if things head south, we may be disappointed.

I guess.
 
The question is where exactly our peds are sitting. Do we know that our money are deposited in Swedish banks? Unless it is stated somewhere by MA, then we simply don't know whether our Universe is safe or deep inside the RL crisis.
 
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