Is it possible to start MF as new player?

[Fawkes]

I'm actually not a new player but a returning player, but since all my skills and items have been purged I'm in all in-game purposes a n00b.

I mostly focus on mining but I want to complement this with a way of defending myself and be able to do some leisure hunting. However I've already done the weapon grind once (the skills I lost) and I'm not particularly looking forward too it. However Mind force seems both interesting character wise and a nice change. Thus my question:

Is it economically viable to hunt with Mind Force as a new player?

1. Is the decay + ME cost (per loot) higher, compared to guns? If so, by much?

2. What are the starting costs? How much free PED:s would I need to try this.

3. Would anyone be willing to guide me in-game, and answer MF related questions?


Please note! My goal is not to become a high-end hunter only to be able to enjoy the hunting aspects of the game in a way I find fun and interesting. Then again, I do not have thousands of PED:s to my disposal to achieve this. Thus my original question: MF, is it economically viable as n00b?

Thank you for reading!

 

[Zorander]

I don't use MF myself, but if you're looking to compare it's cost to that of other weapons then try entropedia. You can find information there on the decay of the implant and most of the commonly used attack chips. Attack chips use synthetic ME from the TT now so no MU to worry about there.

From what I've seen MF is still less eco than conventional weapons, but nothing like it used to be thanks to the ammo being in the TT now.

 

[Ceral]

With the introduction of synthetic mind essence, it is very very viable at low levels, but unfortunately only at low levels due to the fact mid level and higher damage chips, just do not exist right now. However, there are plenty of unlimited SIB, low level, "First Gen Electric Attack Chips" which are easily purchasable for a good deal lower than 100 peds each. With these, you should be able to skill fairly economically up to level 10.

Compared to their BLP and Laser counterparts, you'll be giving up a fair amount of eco though. On Entropedia, an Opalo with A101 is ~2.86 eco, and the First Gen I is 2.818(Actually the eco is significantly worse, see my post on the second page), both should give SIB from the very get go. At least you wont' have to buy expensive amps with the mindforce.

After the First Gen IV chip, prices for the unlimited chips rise dramatically, 1-10k, and you won't even have the damage of a Korss, nor the eco. You will likely be stuck at ~19 DPS with your first gen electric attack IV chip, unless you want to shell out 1-10k for the better versions(And even then, still be less eco). And the L versions, are very uneconomical to use at their current prices. I would say that if you are fine killing up to things like small molisks or small argonauts, then right now, MF isn't a bad choice.

The plusses as I see it, are that MF doesn't require as much peds to be tied up, since you don't need to buy an Amp, and it has decent range, and hey, it's unique and probably more fun. The downside is, that there's not much potential in the mid game(forget about the end game) right now, and it's less eco than other similar level setups. But that may change, probably similar to melee weapons, where they will add apis-ish like damage chips.

 

[Blake Seven]

Some good advice there for you from Ceral

Personally I do most of my casual hunting with an Elec Attack IV and have done many of the lower mob missions using it i.e. molisk, argo, corns etc and don't feel it has cost me anymore than if I had done so with a conventional ranged weapon.

Personally I avoid the current limited chips as they seem to decay too fast for my liking although they are a bit of fun or when I fancy some variety.

As regards unlimited chips the best chip for me does seem to be the Elec IV as it hits a happy medium between cost to buy and damage dealt.

If you need any help in game try looking me up at New Arrivals in PA.

 

[aia]

For a pure beginner, non-depositor, the cost of implant and inserter can be an obstacle (though you can TT inserter after you still need to have PEDs for it).

At higher levels, the repairable chips at higher levels are, well let's say "rare". And the (L) chips at your level might run out. Also, there can be a problem with getting higher level (above 10) implants when you want to use chips at that level.

But at beginner level, it's probably pretty ok if you can deposit so you can get the "starter equipment".

A downside with the change you should be aware of is that since the re-implementation/change the skills are separate, that is you don't gain huge amounts of teleporting skills by using the former nerveblast chips.

I would sum it up as, after the re-implementation, they've changed mindforce attack chips into another cathegory of (L) weapons, and the healing chips into faps; just with other skillsets. From there I'd guess the eco is pretty much the same.

 

[Fawkes]

Thanks a lot for all the answers. So not all bad new anyway. I'll start MF and if we're lucky there might be some changes for MF in the future. Since I won't focus to much on hunting it will probably take me quite some time to skill up.

I'll look for you after the holidays Blake Seven, perhaps you could guide me too what starter equipment to buy. I'm depositor but I don't have a lot of disposable PEDs (perhaps 100-150 max).

Any advice on how to get started is appreciated, thank you.

 

[Aio]

People talk about "eco" but they're really only talking about damage/pec.

Yes, on the base player vs MA calculations MF will be less "eco" than opalo or cb5 for example. However, the sale of skills from MF is MUCH more "eco" than rifle/hg professions.

As an example, you can quite easily profit from using cyro chips at 200% and selling your skills with looted esi's

Generally though, the restrictions on chips and just quantity of unL chips as previously mentioned will annoy you more than any "eco" pedloss.

 

[Blake Seven]

perhaps you could guide me too what starter equipment to buy. I'm depositor but I don't have a lot of disposable PEDs (perhaps 100-150 max).

Depending on what MF skills you have, if you have none I would keep an eye out on the auction for availability and best prices on First Gen Electric Attack Chip I (or higher if your skills allow). Depending on how accessible/affordable these are you could look at the (L) alternative but as I said previously I try to avoid these if I can.

A Regeneration Chip II would also be useful for healing between mobs when hunting or skilling up on other players.

The TT NeoPsion 10 implant will serve you for a long time with only the higher end First Gen chips or the new AoE ones needing anything larger.

The rest of your peds are then free to buy synthetic ME and perhaps make a start on the Daikiba missions from Leo Phoenix (Twin Peaks)

 

[Immortal]

Is it economically viable to hunt with Mind Force as a new player?

No

1. Is the decay + ME cost (per loot) higher, compared to guns? If so, by much?

yes. mindforce costs 10-20% more than other weapons

2. What are the starting costs? How much free PED:s would I need to try this.

500

3. Would anyone be willing to guide me in-game, and answer MF related questions?

Mindforce is a novelty. It does not give you significant residual hp like all other hunting professions. You will not be able to hunt past argo youngs even at level 15-20 in mindforce. By comparison, a person in laser sniper or laser pistol level 20 can kill atrox youngs with ease and with far greater economy.

 

[Fawkes]

Mindforce is a novelty. It does not give you significant residual hp like all other hunting professions. You will not be able to hunt past argo youngs even at level 15-20 in mindforce. By comparison, a person in laser sniper or laser pistol level 20 can kill atrox youngs with ease and with far greater economy.

Hmm, well that's less then good news. 10-20% more expensive is quite much, I thought it was more in the area of 0.xx% less eco, when I looked up the stats on entropedia.

While Mind force might get an update later, it doesn't seem very economically responsible or time efficient to pick MF at this time. Is what Immortal say the general experience of MF or are there people with different opinions? If so I'd like to hear them so I can make up my mind.

500 ped seem quite the investment compared to buying an Opalo and some ammo.

 

[Coop_]

Hmm, well that's less then good news. 10-20% more expensive is quite much, I thought it was more in the area of 0.xx% less eco, when I looked up the stats on entropedia.

Once you have some skills and get a good chip, the difference in MF eco becomes less, but for starters the penalty of the per-use implant decay does cut your eco 10-20% compared to opalo. As noted, the other challenge is finding starter L chips at a decent price to build some skills. Another comment noted that the value of skills you gain is much higher, so might offset the higher costs in the long run (as long as you don't lose track of your account this time )

500 ped seem quite the investment compared to buying an Opalo and some ammo.

I have a feeling that Immortal gets into things at, lets say, a more intense level than most of us
With 100 ped you could get an implant, a few beginner L chips, and enough Synthetic ME to blast through quite a few puny mobs to see if you like it.

While Mind force might get an update later, it doesn't seem very economically responsible or time efficient to pick MF at this time. Is what Immortal say the general experience of MF or are there people with different opinions? If so I'd like to hear them so I can make up my mind.

The fun of mindforce makes it worthwhile for me to pursue along with other ranged weapons. I can't say I'd recommend it for a serious hunter, but for blowing off some steam after a successful (or tragic) mining run, it could be great!

If you are game to try, I'd be happy to mentor you, and I'd be very interested in tracking your progress and thoughts--as this is a question I've been thinking about recently.

 

[Fawkes]

If you are game to try, I'd be happy to mentor you, and I'd be very interested in tracking your progress and thoughts--as this is a question I've been thinking about recently.

That would be awesome!

I really like the aspect of MF and would like to try it out. I usually choose roleplay and skills that suit my character over powerbuilds, however in this game it's also a question of having enough money to continue playing. Personally I'm looking forward to try Mind force much more then hunting with weapons.

I'd be back in-game tomorrow I'll send you a PM then and we can meet up!

 

[the1]

No


yes. mindforce costs 10-20% more than other weapons


500



Mindforce is a novelty. It does not give you significant residual hp like all other hunting professions. You will not be able to hunt past argo youngs even at level 15-20 in mindforce. By comparison, a person in laser sniper or laser pistol level 20 can kill atrox youngs with ease and with far greater economy.

All points true, i hunt and heal 99% of my time with MF, even over lvl 50 (Disclaim with out nice ul chip's ) its hard to get more eco then laser/blp weapons. (and yes i record all my run's,skill's and decay and stuff)


-damian

 

[Ceral]

Very good points about the neopsion implant, I forgot about that. You will have to tie up 22 peds in the neopsion 10 implant, still much better off than tying up +160 peds in a A101 amp though.

I stand corrected. Factoring the decay in, the eco is worse than just 2.8ish. It isn't as bad as 10-20%, but you will end up with 2.55 eco with the level I chip, which is a difference of about 10.7% in eco compared to a 2.86 opalo. The level II chip jumps up to 2.66 eco at least, for a 7% difference in eco. And it gets better with the higher level chips. The decay on the Neo 10 implant is about .46 pecs, so on a level I chip, that is about 10% of the cost per shot, whereas the higher level chips, it is only about 5% of the cost per shot. Entropedia actually has the tool for including implant decay if you are interested in looking at all the numbers for all the chips.

Another good point about the cost of skills, I didn't even think about that. However, one should probably only factor that in if planning on selling their skills. If you plan on selling your skills, than MF could be a good choice.

I think MF is still viable, a much better idea than picking up a gun with no sib at least(Theoretically speaking in regards to pure eco numbers.) But, 5-10% eco is a lot of eco to give up, and I would really consider whether you want to do that or not. 100 peds would be enough to get you set up to go on a hunt or two.

 

[Fawkes]

EDIT: Chip aquired

Thanks again for all guidance and facts!

 

[Fawkes]

I've bought the NeoPsion 10 Mindforce implant and the First Gen Electric Attack Chip I, but when I use it I only do 1 dmg, that is horrible dmg/pec. Have I done something wrong? It say my dmg-interval is 0.2-0.5, while max is 9.0-18.0.

Still the required skill level: 0.0, and it say my skill progress is: 100 %. SBI = Not anymore.

 

[Zorander]

SIB on weapons, including MF chips, is bugged right now. There's been no word (that I'm aware of) if this is simply a display error, or if we're really not getting SIB on them anymore. As for the low damage, it'll get better as you skill up. For starting out with no skills you're better off using the (L) chips as they max the damage and such at lower levels.

So, grab yourself some I (L) chips of the same type as your UL chip and skill a bit with those =)

 

[Fawkes]

Ah, thank for the info!

 

[Fopsie]

With the SME system first gen attack chips has become really eco to use and does not require a lot of skill to max out. The (L) chips on the other hand with the markup usually on them has horrible echo but if you ever want to use a First gen combustive chip (140 damage max and maxed somewhere arround lvl 30 with really slow refire and nice range) you will have to take the costs of the (L) combustive chips

 

[aia]

The (L) chips on the other hand with the markup usually on them has horrible echo but if you ever want to use a First gen combustive chip (140 damage max and maxed somewhere arround lvl 30 with really slow refire and nice range) you will have to take the costs of the (L) combustive chips

Though, the oldschool firestorm chips you *can* use more or less from day one. A new (L) chip has typically a more narrow SIB range.

The problem with the oldschool top level chips is mainly availibility, in all aspects. (Logically "first gen" doesn't drop anymore, they practically hasn't dropped since say 2006 which means they the price makes them inaccessible for most players, and they are rare in the common market).
And in some areas there are no options: Regardless of your skill level, you won't unlock death speak until you're able to posess a resurrection chip (that, again, hasn't dropped in years). The wormhole chip is also prefixed with "first gen". The oldschool top firestorm chip has about same power and range as tango, while the new (L) chips typically have a range of say 50m.
To give a hint about the market price, there is a sales thread here with level viii oldschool chips. Attack chips are 16k-20k, wormhole 8.5k and heal chip 4.5k PED. What's not listed is resurrection chip, but I guess current market price for it could be anywhere between 23k and 38k.

But that's the way it has been all the time more or less since "items" stopped dropping in 2005-2006. (And as far as I know, no special mindforce chips drop happened during SGA.)

But this is more or less it's always been.

In the low-end range, it's fairly easy though. Both since the implementation of the SIB period, the use of synthetic ME makes it easier to skill with (especially if you ahve a repairable chip), and as some chips were fairly common up to level 3-4 in the past, those chips should be possible to buy the "first generation" of.
Also another thing that has happened is the relatively cheap first level (L) chips, that can be used as "party effects" - so now you can throw a fireball without needing to deposit 5k ped.

 

[Blake Seven]

For some reason you didn't get added to my FL when we met in PA yesterday.

So say Hi when you're next passing

 

[DRDoom]

Using exclusively MF myself for healing/hunting I don't think it's the best way to start.

Since the skills you gain with MF won't give you the extra HP like firearms or melee weapons do and I guess if you want to be a hunter extra HP is appreciated.

The 'eco' is discussable, yes it would probably cost a bit more than conventional weapons, but then again the skills you get are worth more if you ever sell them, so I think this evens it out or make it more eco.
You can also see the First Gen attack chips as cheap unl SIB weapons that you can max quite easily.
If you see the cost of a conventional unl SIB weapon it has a high MU and it has a lot of ped tied up into them due the high TT and the 50% minimum condition making it an expensive purchase.

My advice would be to mix your MF with the TT weapons until you maxed them all and then skill some more with L SIB weapons of all kinds until the HP gain slows down before switching 100% to MF.

 

[wizz]

all very nice posts about eco and stuff, but there's one thing you shouldn't forget.


Mindforce is just way cooler then using weapons!

So that's worth a little less eco.

How cool is it to walk around seemingly unarmed, and then shoot a blast of lightning or fire out of nowhere?


And with the new visuals it's even better!


So just get the chip, train your mind and blast away!



Just don't expect to ever go hunt Daspleters with it

 

[Parlog]

all very nice posts about eco and stuff, but there's one thing you shouldn't forget.


Mindforce is just way cooler then using weapons!

So that's worth a little less eco.

How cool is it to walk around seemingly unarmed, and then shoot a blast of lightning or fire out of nowhere?


And with the new visuals it's even better!


So just get the chip, train your mind and blast away!



Just don't expect to ever go hunt Daspleters with it

i use MF chips as taggers especially on dasps they do a good job...

 

[wizz]

i use MF chips as taggers especially on dasps they do a good job...

yeah, and now try to kill one with just MF!



Maybe when lvl 50+ attack chips start dropping...



Damn, still a long way for me to be able to use them. Let's get back to blasting some daikibas....

 

[STYRM]

Hmm, well that's less then good news. 10-20% more expensive is quite much, I thought it was more in the area of 0.xx% less eco, when I looked up the stats on entropedia.

While Mind force might get an update later, it doesn't seem very economically responsible or time efficient to pick MF at this time. Is what Immortal say the general experience of MF or are there people with different opinions? If so I'd like to hear them so I can make up my mind.

500 ped seem quite the investment compared to buying an Opalo and some ammo.

I would not even start using an opalo without atleast 500 peds as a bankroll.. but many ppl does it..

any activity in EU will be as expensive as you want.. if you wanna blast mobs over your level you can and you can play very eco if you know how.. I would not call mindforce eco in any way.. but I dont use it either.. I just blast big mobs with big guns lol

 

[aia]

i use MF chips as taggers especially on dasps they do a good job...

You have an oldschool chip then? Nerveblast level V or above or firestorm chip?

yeah, and now try to kill one with just MF!

With a fapper I've used bigger (L) nerveblast chips on small spiders (young/mature), so it sort'a works when it comes to regen.

For daspletor, well I guess there would be two different kind of problems: First my fap and armour (ghost) doesn't reall match the damage they make, and the fappers I use aren't in level to use the better (L) faps. The second problem would be that the (L) mindforce chips would break too fast (relatively speaking - it's daspletors we're talking about!) and on CND there is the 40% auction fee to get new ones (given ofc there are new ones in auction).

 

[wizz]

You have an oldschool chip then? Nerveblast level V or above or firestorm chip?



With a fapper I've used bigger (L) nerveblast chips on small spiders (young/mature), so it sort'a works when it comes to regen.

For daspletor, well I guess there would be two different kind of problems: First my fap and armour (ghost) doesn't reall match the damage they make, and the fappers I use aren't in level to use the better (L) faps. The second problem would be that the (L) mindforce chips would break too fast (relatively speaking - it's daspletors we're talking about!) and on CND there is the 40% auction fee to get new ones (given ofc there are new ones in auction).

Right now it's not even worth to think about killing dasps with mindforce. Maybe you might manage to kill one but still I wouldn't make it your standard choice of equipment.

That doesn't mean mindforce is useless. Far from it! Small mobs are easy with first gen chips up to lvl 4. And if you have some skill they're nearly as eco as your standard gear.
If you have some lvl's under your belt you might even go bigger using the lvl IX electric chips. With 42 attacks at 82 dmg they really pack on awesome punch! Enough to hunt troxes with it.

I my opinion, just don't use to many small chips if you have very low skills (like lvl 1 attack chips). They decay your implant really fast which gives some "hidden" costs. I think the lvl 3 and 4 first gen. electric chips are very decent weapons to use.

To bad is that mindforce just gives very little HP skills and that could be a reason to not start with it as a beginner.

But as mentioned before, I still think it's the coolest way to hunt

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

With 42 attacks at 82 dmg they really pack on awesome punch! Enough to hunt troxes with it.

I usually use the kinetic VII for atrox young-old... I did manage to kill an Atrox Guardian with electro VIII (L) but I only have shogun+2a atm so a bit hard because of that