Karma comes back around.....

Alainax

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Can't get 'rude' from shooting pirates. This 'rude' on your ship comes from shooting ships with good karma - soc KOS list, personal KOS list, etc etc.

Just sayin'... ;)

Please don't forgot some pirates have positive karma quads :) thus you can gain neg karma from killing them.

Remember it's not the "side" to pay attention too, but the strength :)
Ie, a fair rude or notable maybe just a normal dudey, but an evil, notorious scoundrel... Or even trustworthy, kind, honorable.... Gives a hint that this ain't a space noob. :)
 

Alainax

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Some info about the bad karma ranks that i have collected so far - some gaps inbetween the ranks still need to be filled:
Rude, Disreputable, Notorious, Despicable, Scoundrel, Dastardly, Malicious, Evil, Villainous
Fascinating to hear about the seriously negative levels :D
 

Svarog

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Please don't forgot some pirates have positive karma quads :) thus you can gain neg karma from killing them.

Just as pirates gain good karma from shooting poor souls who happen to buy "Rude" quads :yup:
 

Alainax

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Just as pirates gain good karma from shooting poor souls who happen to buy "Rude" quads :yup:

We really need a dastardly tag'!
 

Fifth

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Just as pirates gain good karma from shooting poor souls who happen to buy "Rude" quads :yup:
That's interesting, does the karma "side" (positive/negative) really come over after u sell it?

My experience: The VTOL i have atm was probably "Upstanding" before i bought it. I only know this because it blinked between "Upstanding" and "Fair" the very 1st day they when i had just bought it (right after spawned it displayed "Upstanding", when i hopped in it switched to "Fair").
After doing this a few times it never did this again. From then on it was always either "Fair" or "Lost it's title" (until much later when my own Captain levels increased).

From this i made a conclusion that sale resets the previous karma level? If so, it would seem logical that the karma "side" would be reset also, but i have no experience with this. Maybe somebody has?

Some "residual" karma on the ship might be intentional thou. :scratch2: Otherwise it would be too easy to decrease karma level (kinda "reset it") only by selling it and buying it back.
 
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Svarog

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People don't have karma, only ships do. Everything you do with them changes their karma and it doesn't reset or changes with sale. Once you're inside the ship, your Captain level affects the karma (though 1 thing I don't know - does high Captain lvl decrease negative karma, or make it even worse; I suppose the former, but hopefully someone knows for sure).

right after spawned it displayed "Upstanding", when i hopped in it switched to "Fair"

And here I'm lost. "Upstanding" is better than "Fair", so If you don't mix these two, it means that your Captain level did decrease the positive karma of your ship... :scratch2:

My current Quad (killed some mobs with it, never shoot at people) has 'Fair' without me and 'Upstanding' with me inside.
 

Alainax

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(though 1 thing I don't know - does high Captain lvl decrease negative karma, or make it even worse; I suppose the former, but hopefully someone knows for sure

Yes that's right, your captain lol strengthens the tag, I either direction. Making a fair even more positive or a rude ever more negative. That's how we got to see the evil tag, john jumping into an already very negative quad. So with that quad being already very negative, and his captain having a huge effect on it, it went evil.

Someone can also have the opposite effect on a ship, weakening it's karma. For example someone may be able to turn a rude into a notorious, but then their passenger hops in and it can go back to rude.
 

Side Slay Show

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does high Captain lvl decrease negative karma, or make it even worse

If you have high Captain lvl it will boost the karma. If you have a "bad" karma it will get a higher "bad" karma. If you have a "good" karma will get a higher "good" karma.


btw, I had a fair quad until I shot 1 pirate (that was in a "good" karma quad). and it turned into rude. Tried to reverse it by shooting a "bad" but guess it wasnt as evil, still rude quad). ;)
 

morgoth

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I've bounced between rude, fair, and kind since I mostly hunt pirates but a few have fair quads which screws my karma.

But I have also noticed captin doesn't increase karma ranking but gives it a unique title based on it's karma rating

like this

Fair (0-9 captin) / fair is upstanding (10-19 captin)

kind (0-9 captin) / kind is respectable (10-19 captin)


So I think each karma lvl has it's own distinctions based on what the persons captin lvl is. This way you can see a persons ship and figure if they are a likely pirate or not, then also gauge based on which distinctive title they have what they're captin lvl is.
 

Alainax

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So I think each karma lvl has it's own distinctions based on what the persons captin lvl is. .

From our tests the captain profession will increase the tag, by using the captain level of the pilot, and karma of the quad as a collective. So my captain level will boost a quads karma by 5 ranks, and johns will boost by 12 ranks. We are still working out the other levels also :)

Quads hold a karma on their own, and captain professions boost it up the ranks respectively.

Also, fascinatingly, shooting down a quad which is flown by a high level captain, gives you a great increase to the number of karma points you receive from the kill. So the karma points recieved by the killer, are also a collective of quad karma + captain rank.
 

Svarog

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Also, fascinatingly, shooting down a quad which is flown by a high level captain, gives you a great increase to the number of karma points you receive from the kill. So the karma points recieved by the killer, are also a collective of quad karma + captain rank.

Soo exploitable :eyecrazy:
 

Alainax

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Soo exploitable :eyecrazy:

umm Dynamic! It does However, it does take a pretty unique set of circumstances. You need both an extremely high level captain, and an utterly horrible quad :laugh:

I does make absolute sense. You should gain* a lot of karma by shooting down a high level captain, in theory, he has served time in space and should give you a higher reward for shooting him down in his ship. I like it :) Its more dynamic.

Let me elaborate a bit on our findings so far also. John has the more nitty gritty details, facts and figures etc, but some of what we found was so fascinating it needs to be shared in this thread.

So we all knew that captain level was effecting the tags. We aimed to discover just how much. Between slay and I there was no difference. My "measly" lvl 38 captain, was only influencing tags by 5 levels. John at level 60 captain was influencing them by what we believe is 12. Very low level captains as passengers have an adverse effect, and bring a tag down a few ranks. This has came from careful documentation of the tags as they increase/decrease :)

The next part was what I loved. We all get the message " you have gained +/- karma points" when we make a kill. What was curious was what did that actually mean about the ship you just killed. It was thought that the points you got, was a reflection of the points that quad had. We discovered this was not the case.

Shooting down a standard quad with me in, gave 50 points, with john in, it gave 80. The quad or the pilots hadn't made any more kills, these points were a reflection of one thing, the ships tag.
The tag now being a collective of the pilot and quad.

So... taking my, um... darling quad, we noted the following. Shooting down my very naughty quad, with John as pilot, will gain someone around 1200 karma points. That's a lot! bearing in mind we can flip karma tags with a fraction of that.

However, my darling quad has a documented -20k karma points. ( just what I have written down, so will be more which i haven't).

Sooooooo that 1200 you get from killing john in my ship, isnt a reflection of how many karma points my ship has. What my ships karma points are doing, are giving my ship the karma level, of which john is then boosting by 12. It would then appear, that the karma points you gain from a kill, are the reflection of the karma tag you are killing. :)


Does that make sense? :eyecrazy:

It makes sense in my head, and I finally feel, after all these years, that I understand the Karma system!



*gain or lose, depending on your side.
 
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Alainax

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Here is what some of these tags look like :)

We will get the more comprehensive list of our discoveries up asap :cool:
:cool:

Wicked​
wickied.jpg



Vile​
vile.jpg




Scoundral & Admirable​
soundral.jpg


Despicable me!​
despicable.jpg

despicable_me.jpg



Sinister​
sinsister.jpg




Ignobal​
ignobal.jpg



A very high positive - Glorious​
glorious.jpg


A really strong negative - Dread​
drread.jpg


I should point out, im a nice person really :laugh::ahh: There are a few more tags between this lot I have pics of, like Evil, But we will pop them on the list. :)
 

Fifth

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I think i get it now. Thanx, Alainax!

Following the same overall logic selling most likely won't reset the karma. Not only the stored karma points will remain but also the pos/neg side.
So... someone could buy all quads from auction, turn em Rude one by one and then put em back on auction. Results would be real messy... :laugh:


Why those pics remind me of Babylon 5? :scratch2:
There's a connection somewhere but can't put my finger on it.

Maybe it's the mysterious invisible pilot of the quad, who's present on the picture and at the same time invisible (like that 1st commander of Babylon 5 who mysteriously disappeared and reappeared)... ;)
 
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Alainax

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I think i get it now. Thanx, Alainax!

Following the same overall logic selling most likely won't reset the karma. Not only the stored karma points will remain but also the pos/neg side.
So... someone could buy all quads from auction, turn em Rude one by one and then put em back on auction. Results would be real messy... :laugh:


Great thats my weekend plans sorted! thanks! :laugh:
Why those pics remind me of Babylon 5? :scratch2:
There's a connection somewhere but can't put my finger on it.

Maybe it's the mysterious invisible pilot of the quad, who's present on the picture and at the same time invisible (like that 1st commander of Babylon 5 who mysteriously disappeared and reappeared)... ;)

:laugh:

From what we have gathered this week, we may have reached a ceiling :( and from info from another with a very high karma quad. It seems, there is a limit as to what Karma a quad can gain on its own. After a certain point, its only captain level which will bump it.
Even taking into consideration an extreme exponential curve, the quads won't budge. They also seem to both do it at their equal positive and negative rank.

We are still working on the list, there are a couple of gaps which should hopefully get re-configured this week :)
 
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