Kill Stealing - EULA Rule or Ethics?

[Chazlow]

Following this response to a Kill stealing support case....

"Thank you for your report. "Kill stealing" is a well known phenomena. Morally it is of course objectionable. For ethical reasons participants should not attack creatures other participants are handling, however, there is no prohibition against it. Since you meet real people in Entropia Universe you will now and then meet people that do not follow the same ethical codes as you do. Should this lead to systematic harassment, we will intervene, but single incidents are hard to prevent. The only immediate way to avoid the frustration from such incidents is to change your own position in Planet Calypso."

I would like a comprehensive community opinion - the response I received above i feel only perpetuates such behaviour.

So in essence one can kill steal at different locations on different day and as long as its not constant it is acceptable.

Is this a standard response other people have recieved? In my case the action was blatant and repeated as I was followed.

 

[mastermesh]

yes.

standard cut/paste type of response. The one I received a while back was discussing traders using the local channel in the chat instead of trade channel, but it was just about word for word identical to the response you got here...

 

[kebplay]

I think their stance is fine, accidental one offs happen all the time. Only persistant deliberate offenders should be punished.
You know what you do in game will be seen by other players a few seconds later so it's very easy to tag a mob after someone else and not realise, then both parties claim KS!

 

[dargonstar]

I think their stance is fine, accidental one offs happen all the time. Only persistant deliberate offenders should be punished.
You know what you do in game will be seen by other players a few seconds later so it's very easy to tag a mob after someone else and not realise, then both parties claim KS!

or the messed up mob agro ai.
aka argos, ambu, ect.
player a is at one end of the radar and has a argo at the very edge of it appearing in the radar, player B is the exact same but on the exact opposite side. both fire with a marber to pull it, A hits first by 3 seconds but after he hits the messed up ai makes it take off after player B. player A takes chase firing as he goes and then finds it dead to player B, player B witnessed a player run into radar shooting at "his" mob, while player A was chasing after "his" mob, both players are claiming the other is a KS.

past incident, i was hunting argos, i shot one and it ran over the hill and started attacking a guy with 7 argos beating on him, i pulled my argo off and the guy claimed i was stealing him mob.

or in another incident i was hunting cauds at twin (pre vu 10) and i shot a caud in my radar range no one had attacked yet, and just as i shot it and it began charging me a newbie turned around and started running towards it. now this is a big thing as i have ranged, he had melee, was it his just because he had started running to it as i had shot it or was it mine since i shot it just before he began his charge?

 

[Dan59]

Kill stealing is possibility given by game, programed by MA.
So cant be guilty only casual player but both - MA who gave that possibility and player who use that possibility.
EU is built in mode that advantage of one player consist of looses or disadvantages of others.
LA owner thake few procents of each killed mob but we cant call him kill stealer.
Pker get fun by doing financial damage to casual victim - decaying victim armor, fap and making him loose time.
Success of reseler is bassed on geting better price ie making buyers loose more ...
Mob AI is realy questionable...
Its way MA programed this game.
Problem shud be adresed on MA probably in first place before we can talk about player moral or ethic.

 

[Danton]

....
Its way MA programed this game.
Problem shud be adresed on MA probably in first place before we can talk about player moral or ethic.

Can't agree to that. Beside of shitty coding there is "moral and ethics". Like in RL always some (few) ppl inside EU never heard about "moral end ethics" or dont care about.

Accidently shooting a mob from other ppl always can happen, mostly at crowded events (LT, eomon etc.) But offensive KS is acting that has *only* to do with "moral and ethics".

But best way to handle this is: ignore and go your way. So more someone complains about, so more fun this <self-censored> are having. Don't give this <....> this favour.....

 

[ermik]

since you are not really loosing anything when someone accidently or deliberate steal your mob there is nothing to worry about.

loot is generated when you loot the mob , its not inside the mob at any time. and system remember the hp you killed of the mob you didnt get to loot.

its bad manners , and really offensive if done systematicly , but you are not loosing peds on it.

cheers

ermik

 

[Nicole]

Kill stealing has always been a part of PE / EU, The best way for MA to handle kill stealing is to use the system that all parties that did damage to the mob get a share of the loot.

I remember when I was a new player and their was this one mob that always gave great loots and did not attack back, a few hunters would camp it 24/7 and would not allow other hunters to hunt there, they would ks you all the time and force you out of the area. This area back then made the 3 palyers about 1000 peds profits each day. PE was a very different game back then in 2004.

After skilling up for a while I also became good at Killstealing but I never liked it too much, my idea was the best defense against being killstealed was to deal out so much damge that I too would be a great kill stealer myself and yes I did kill steal a few times... Best kill steal was at the old rig when there was 3 big artox 1 a stalker 2 prowlers or was it 2 stalker and one prowler can't remember ... what I do remeber was we all started the mobs at the same time and I killed 1 stalker 1 prowler and at this time my skill where pretty decent so I said I wounder If I could take the other artox that these ppl where working on for like 10 mins... I globaled on that one and they tanked me for killing it also.

My 2nd best was not really a KS , but getting back at a killstealer that used to always ks me with her imk2, on Tantardans... even though she was the highest rifel person at the time with over 12k rife I was able to use my imk2 and mm to keep my mob and get the kill ; I still rember Andea sayng she was going to get DR to come down to hlep her
We latter on became friends !


Even though I could have killstealed alot more , I did not like doing that, so for the most Part I did not kill steal, I just felt it was wrong.

Have their been accidental kill stealing , yes... have I shared a part or 1/2 of the loot with the other person yes.



I still think best way for ma to fix ks is to do system they used for the Hellbring event but make it for all mobs, is that all loot is split with all ppl that did damge to the mob, I think that is the fairest system.

 

[Chris Enzo]

since you are not really loosing anything when someone accidently or deliberate steal your mob there is nothing to worry about.

loot is generated when you loot the mob , its not inside the mob at any time. and system remember the hp you killed of the mob you didnt get to loot.

its bad manners , and really offensive if done systematicly , but you are not loosing peds on it.

cheers

ermik

You loose whatever ammo and time you waisted on a mob if someone killsteals it from you, while the killstealer earns the same amount of ammo/time.
In other words you can say the killstealer grabs that peds right out of your pocket.

When many people hunt at same place with to low spawn its impossible to avoid accidents now and then, but luckily this isent a big issue when all know it will happen sometimes.
Deliberate killstealing is another thing, if same avas do it on you multiple times, just move away, or mobtrain them

 

[ermik]

You loose whatever ammo and time you waisted on a mob if someone killsteals it from you, while the killstealer earns the same amount of ammo/time.
In other words you can say the killstealer grabs that peds right out of your pocket.

how can you know that the peds you shoot into a mob you dont get to loot is lost?

think outside the box , without going to extremes and drawing 8´s all around the place , lets not go too far shall we

cheers

ermik

 

[Xzion]

It has always been there, always been like this. Oh i know how this sounds, but it really is a part of the game, we all know about it already so it dosn't pose a problem unless you intentionally get into a "siutation" where this happends.

Grey zone.

 

[John BD]

heehhe i would like to see a virtual jail for behavere like that, it is a game afterall.
avatar stays visible in the jail even after they log off

 

[Dan59]

Can't agree to that. Beside of shitty coding there is "moral and ethics". Like in RL always some (few) ppl inside EU never heard about "moral end ethics" or dont care about.

Accidently shooting a mob from other ppl always can happen, mostly at crowded events (LT, eomon etc.) But offensive KS is acting that has *only* to do with "moral and ethics".

But best way to handle this is: ignore and go your way. So more someone complains about, so more fun this <self-censored> are having. Don't give this <....> this favour.....

I agree with you. I stated that too in part that you accidentaly ommited in your quote to my post.
We will always have ppl with strange behaviour. Some of that i lived in all those years in PE/EU ( lived long years in noob clothes so exchanged many times for noob )
I wanted to point that some of bad acts of ppl cud be disabled by MA programing.
In my country if someone leave unsaved proprety is guilty too.
For example if police man find that you left car in parking unlocked you get globe to pay because you made easyer for burgler to steal it.
In EU is MA who offer possibility for ppl to killsteal so is MA who need to remove or change that possibility.
We cant wait bad asses to become better players as only possible solution. Hardly they will change any.
MA cud do their part too by programing mode that excesses cud happen less as possible.

 

[Dan59]

How to act ? Yes probably is best to leave zone and killsteallers.
If you cry you give additional fun to them.
Maybe to write support case? nah
Best go somewhere else and hunt another mob.

If you get wery angry lol - then be nice, love your killstealler. He need mobs, he was so disperate to take your mob too.
So help him and biring him more. A lot more lol. But doing it you go down on his lvl of behaviour.

 

[Zacariaz]

I'm not a fan of kill stealing, but though the response from support is a cut and paste response, it can't be explained much better than that.

Harassment is another matter and that is where the problem really is. A person could, in principle, be kill stealing all day long without it being harassment by annoying different people all the time. This should be prohibited, but it is almost impossible and no rule I can think of will solve it. If you encounter such a person, I suggest that you write a support case and when support has received enough, I'd think they'd take some sort of action. A warning at the least.

 

[Danton]

I agree with you. I stated that too in part that you accidentaly ommited in your quote to my post.
We will always have ppl with strange behaviour. Some of that i lived in all those years in PE/EU ( lived long years in noob clothes so exchanged many times for noob )
I wanted to point that some of bad acts of ppl cud be disabled by MA programing.
In my country if someone leave unsaved proprety is guilty too.
For example if police man find that you left car in parking unlocked you get globe to pay because you made easyer for burgler to steal it.
In EU is MA who offer possibility for ppl to killsteal so is MA who need to remove or change that possibility.
We cant wait bad asses to become better players as only possible solution. Hardly they will change any.
MA cud do their part too by programing mode that excesses cud happen less as possible.

Now I got your point
Sorry for cutting off the quote in previous post.
It's true, MA *can* do something against it, if they *want*.

 

[mastermesh]

Can't agree to that. Beside of shitty coding there is "moral and ethics". Like in RL always some (few) ppl inside EU never heard about "moral end ethics" or dont care about.

The point is if they don't want participants doing things, they, the programmers, should do something to prevent the players from doing them. EVERY OTHER MMO DEVELOPER IN EXISTENCE KNOWS THIS. Gamers can and will always use whatever means is available to them to "win". Since the programmers program the environment our avatars exist in, it's their duty to program out the exploits and bugs BEFORE releases, but so far, all too often that has not been happening.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mmo+...-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Here's a little history lesson for the the game programmers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prince

Yes, cheaters suck... but on the other hands, this mmo is both PVE and PVP... and is based on real cash... so people are going to use whatever methods available to play most economically, and if that means they are kill stealing, by golly, some of them will do that. It's not something that anyone should do, but since it's something the game engine and it's parameters allow, it's not something anyone is doing anything to stop...

Shared loot on ALL MOBS would be one solution?

 

[Zacariaz]

Shared loot on ALL MOBS would be one solution?

Would be the only solution if you ask me. Question is if we'd want that.

Don't think I'd care too much about it.

 

[mastermesh]

posted a poll over at https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?208427-Shared-loot-on-ALL-MOBS&

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

Well if it's only one time I see nothing wrong with it, so long as it was an accident or a misunderstanding.
An example of this was once when I was hunting Levi I started on a Dom, a minute latter another guy shows up and starts shooting, insisting he had already got it down to 3/4 health before dying. This guy had a bigger gun and stole the kill from me. A second latter he say's, "Oh shit, I just found the one I was working on, sorry. I heal for you for the next few levi?"
So he kill stole from me but it was an honest misunderstanding.
On the other hand if someone is constantly kill stealing from you then it would be harassment like the support case stated.

 

[ranpha]

Unfornatley it aint a EULA rule. Why? I asked once. As long as it happens once in a while thats just the natural of the hunt system. However if somebody stalks you and kee[ps shooting your mobs then it is consider harassing which is forbidden. But a small tp job or drive solves that problem quiet easy.

 

[Danton]

posted a poll over at https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?208427-Shared-loot-on-ALL-MOBS&

I personally like to have "my own" mob for hunting. Shared loot for all mobs will stop me hunting and change profession with lesser onlinetimes.

 

[BlackHawk]

Well... if you play for fun, you should not complain. The mob is killed fast, and who cares about looot....

If you play for profit, you should know better... you are in the wrong place.

If you play for profit and you don't see that you are in the wrong place, I love you. We need more people like you.

 

[juicy001]

some fair solution would be good probaly , since some stupids started KS'ing as a profession

 

[Danton]

Well... if you play for fun, you should not complain. The mob is killed fast, and who cares about looot....

If you play for profit, you should know better... you are in the wrong place.

If you play for profit and you don't see that you are in the wrong place, I love you. We need more people like you.

You are sure that it would be fun for you always been surrounded from other ppl? No chance to do your own things ingame?

I remember a thread -started from you longer ago- about some fapping, where you claimed to not be disturbed during your gameplay.....

So it could be similar to other ppl that are playing for fun only and not for hopings about big loot, that they also want to do their "own" things ingame.