Perspective of a month old noob

Profit

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completely off topic but if you hof again will you have negative posts or positive ones. I could dig up some uber loots you had some weeks ago when you were happy with glee. a few weeks past by nothing but negative posts again :scratch2:

If I gave you $100 would you be happy? Yes?
Will you still be happy tomorrow when I take it back plus $300?
Exactly.



nb: those uber loots totalled around 4k PED. That's not even half of the deposits I made (and lost) that month alone. I just thought I'd mention that for some perspective.
 
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Profit

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Good point. The "penny pinching" type of play isn't for everyone. A lot of people say they just want to play the game, and that's fine. For me, the ACTUAL game play blows. It gets very repetitive, very fast. If all I want to do is play a game for strictly entertainment, I'll find something with way more action, storyline, better controls and an overall better experience.

I find my fun in this game FROM dealing with the money. The enjoyment comes from totaling my balance at the end of the month and seeing a + instead of a - and knowing that my actions caused that. That my actions generated real worth inside of a video game. I don't mind the "work" because that's fun to me.

I understand that (and thanks for being constructive in reply hehe) which is why I say "I don't recommend EU to friends". Most people (subjective) are looking for a "game" game, when they come across EU. And I think it's important that people are told that this isn't a "game" game, before they lose hundreds of dollars in the process of being enlightened.

Like I said, I have nothing against EU or MA and I willingly deposit a lot of money here, but I cannot condone leading others astray with false hope.

You yourself said it - "If all I want to do is play a game for strictly entertainment, I'll find something with way more action, storyline, better controls and an overall better experience." - it's fair to say, most people are looking for games strictly for entertainment. So I tell them they're in the wrong place... and then get flamed for it lol.
 
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DoubleWolf

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it's fair to say, most people are looking for games strictly for entertainment. So I tell them they're in the wrong place... and then get flamed for it lol.

Yeah, I think it's important to make sure that everyone knows from the get go that this isn't a game in the traditional sense. I look at it as more of an "economy simulator". You have to spend money to generate products to sell, and the mechanism to do that is played like a game. But the game aspect isn't really the focus, the economy is. And because this economy is done with real money, it's possible to make playing it worth your time.

If that sort of thing sounds like fun to participate in, then this game is perfect for you. But if you're just playing the game for the game itself, you'll likely find yourself bored or broke. It costs a lot of money to play at the levels that people consider "fun" and a lot of people don't have the skills or the bankroll to sustain their play at those levels. The people that do are usually long time players that are playing the economy, and have gained the skills (and money) over a long period of time to play efficiently at high levels. Too many people are quick to go hunt the biggest thing they can kill, no matter how inefficient it may be, just because they saw it once paid out a 5 digit loot.
 

Ghosted

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If I gave you $100 would you be happy? Yes?
Will you still be happy tomorrow when I take it back plus $300?
Exactly.



nb: those uber loots totalled around 4k PED. That's not even half of the deposits I made (and lost) that month alone. I just thought I'd mention that for some perspective.

Actually hes putting words in my mouth. He assumes I wasnt satisfied with the loot. While I wasnt, thats not the point. Im not so small minded as to think Im going to be an internet millionaire off of a few months in a video game. Thats stupid.

Im not mad at Entropia. I still play, and play quite happily. I just think this forum sucks. Folks here take themselves far too seriously. Rather than allow me liberty to choose my own path, they opted, including our friendly moderator John Capital, to offer me lectures on financial well being, scientific method, yadda yadda yadda.

I just about rolled over out of my chair when I came home to find the folks in Teamspeak talking about how some jackass on this forum mistook one of them for me. Then I saw who the posters on this thread were and it all made sense.

I havnt been around here for what? 2 weeks? 3 weeks? Yet my name is being tossed around? Has anyone else been blamed for being me? Im flattered, really, but also a bit concerned. I heard Entropia Forum had a virus attack not too long ago? Is that my fault too?

Is the EVOL MAGYAR REPUBLIC going to fart fireballs all over the face of Calypso, wreaking havoc with the loot system, tilting the numbers off the scale and bankrupting everyone? Did I bomb the World Trade Center? Did I cause your Real Estate investments and 401k to collapse? When does it stop, people?

Honestly its a bit pathetic. But its also funny, so to EF --- keep it up. Sometimes work sucks. Its good to laugh when the day's through.
 

Moribund

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4. Carpentry (not sure how buying furniture works, but carpenters could build their own). Logging, go chop down some trees, then haul them!

I can see it:
Chop, chop, chop.
This tree didn't carry any logs.
Darn...
chop, chop, chop.
[Insert your avatar name here] cut down a tree (Oak Young) with a value of 53 PED!
 

Dorsai

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Would you buy real estate IRL if there is a risk they will redesign the landscape after a month?

Having watched a few TV programs about "homes from hell" (I think that is what the program was called) in RL in some countries that is a real danger.

There was this couple who bought a house in Spain. They went back to the UK to visit relatives, and when they got back to their house in Spain their swimming-pool had become a roundabout, their garden a road, and their kitchen was a bus stop on the road that used to be their garden. :eek:
They were not best pleased, but it was in the EULA for the property they bought that the developer could "improve" the area as they saw fit.
Their investment "went down" rather than up.
 

Moribund

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Dorsai:
For real?:eek:

Sounds similar to Entropia. :laugh:
 

JohnCapital

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I havnt been around here for what? 2 weeks? 3 weeks? Yet my name is being tossed around? Has anyone else been blamed for being me?

In fairness when I see forum management reports that says Doctor Zhivago is coming from the same location as multiple other accounts, including Maygar Republic, and those brand new accounts make their first comments about how they hate this forum, how can I think any different?

Now I'm sorry if you feel turned off by this forum, but please stop trashing this person's thread.
 

Ghosted

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In fairness when I see forum management reports that says Doctor Zhivago is coming from the same location as multiple other accounts, including Maygar Republic, and those brand new accounts make their first comments about how they hate this forum, how can I think any different?

Now I'm sorry if you feel turned off by this forum, but please stop trashing this person's thread.

No. Youre going to have to be more polite than that, John.

You allowed 24 pages of flames to occur against me. You even posted to encourage flames. And now you want me to behave? I dont think so.

Lets deal with those accusations you made above. Im going to put it out there very plainly for you. Im posting via proxy. To say that the same IP address generated multiple accounts, well. Its not happening. I challenge any Entropia Forum user to try to create a second account from their computers. It does not work. You get a popup saying essentially you are not allowed to do it. Go on, try it.

So either I have at this point according to John Capital... at least half a dozen computers in my house all ready to post on Entropia Forum, or Im posting via proxy. Which means that statement from him is a total load of garbage.

How about you, John Capital, make a sticky post promising to not be involved with flames against users, to actually moderate a board rather than pick favorites and allow those favorites to say/do what they want, and put your head between your own legs --- kissing your own ball sack.

You sat behind your keyboard snickering and thinking "Ive got control and can say/do what I want"

Well --- youve got absolutely no control --- so watch your fucking mouth. Have I demonstrated that yet, or should I continue?
 

Kujo

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There should not be any fee at all on depositing since MA gets all the money anyway and you only get a virtual amount back that is worth nothing outside the game.

It is enought with a fee when you withdraw money. This way I think more would be deposited... and many just deposite for some fun and never intend to withdraw but just to spend the peds = MA gets to keep it all anyway.
 

JohnCapital

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Have I demonstrated that yet, or should I continue?

Since it seems you haven't been around for too long, I'll let you know there have been times I've moderated against my "friends" and in favor of "my enemies", because they were in the right.

Not sure why you focused on me. Now as I said, please leave this person's thread alone.
 

Fizzgig

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Kujo said:
There should not be any fee at all on depositing since MA gets all the money anyway and you only get a virtual amount back that is worth nothing outside the game.

It is enought with a fee when you withdraw money. This way I think more would be deposited... and many just deposite for some fun and never intend to withdraw but just to spend the peds = MA gets to keep it all anyway.

Exactly, MA should want the process to be as easy as humanly possible with as little fees as possible. That way people will do what you suggest, just put money in case they need it without having to worry about huge fees. They should try to emulate a bank in that respect as closely as possible. Why do banks pay people for storing savings in an account? Because they make money off of the money and gain customers! Which concerns a topic I didn't even bring up, the awful extracting funds waiting period. It should be fast and free (for MA's sake as well as ours).

JohnCapital said:
Not sure why you focused on me. Now as I said, please leave this person's thread alone.

Could you just let everyone post and not delete a page or more of posts from my thread? Yes they were in response to a deleted post but they still made sense, you are taking it way too far to keep things "clean". In fact, about the only person who hasn't contributed anything in this thread is you, so maybe you should just go scurry along and make friends elsewhere.
 

Profit

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Could you just let everyone post and not delete a page or more of posts from my thread? Yes they were in response to a deleted post but they still made sense, you are taking it way too far to keep things "clean". In fact, about the only person who hasn't contributed anything in this thread is you, so maybe you should just go scurry along and make friends elsewhere.

Lesson #1:
On Entropiaforum.com your posts will be moderated.
:wise:
Lesson #2:
Only make positive posts.
Lesson #3:
Noone in Entropiaforum.com talks about Entropiaforum.com
 

Karmic

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1. MindArk placing graphics above game play in the following areas:
a. Changing landscape which affected the value of investors negatively.
b. Disabling the use of Hangars (I don't care what kind of compensation program is going to happen, that is just unprofessional).
c. Disabling taming and mindforce.
2. Instantiating "banks" which are little more than pawnshops.
3. Never following through with the stock market. Which leads to (4).
4. Keeping the scope of the game very narrow. For this game to truly be a virtual universe Calypso needs more than hunting, mining, and a few professions. I'm sure you guys at MindArk have some great ideas but invest in some talent and pump out some updates which fix some very basic issues fast.
5. Put a cap on deposit and withdraw fees. I can understand squeezing the nickles and dimes out of regular depositors, but I'm not going to deposit 20k in a game with the above mentioned issues only to get 19k back on the initial investment when I cash out.

Certainly the download issues are a big problem, but, I wonder, if you are really only a month old how you ran into any of the issues you listed above other than 4. Really VU 10 was a reboot for a lot of the game, I hope to see the scope increase as you do and some of the old systems come back as well. As far as the changing landscape, IRL that happens all the time, areas change constantly and some of them affect your house values negatively.

The landscape issue is one that MA actually came back and modified again due to "investor" feedback, that investor, though certainly outspoken when he is not happy about some things has also recently been inquiring about buying a bank and has purchased several LA add ons. That may be relevant or not depending on your viewpoint.

Sadly I usually have fun and do well in the game yet get saddened when i read the forum bickering just like I've seen in every other game over the years ;(

5) there is a cap on withdrawal fees actually. Deposit fees are up to your bank and also "capped" at the cost of a wire transfer.
 

Fizzgig

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Karmic said:
Certainly the download issues are a big problem, but, I wonder, if you are really only a month old how you ran into any of the issues you listed above other than 4. Really VU 10 was a reboot for a lot of the game, I hope to see the scope increase as you do and some of the old systems come back as well. As far as the changing landscape, IRL that happens all the time, areas change constantly and some of them affect your house values negatively.

As was stated before, I read the forums, I did not experience most of the issues first hand. Yeah it was a reboot, but if MA is going to upgrade the graphics engine they should fix these issues before hand. And the fact that natural disasters affect real life land values has nothing to do with anything. Lots of things happen in real life. If MA accidentally deleted some characters would you argue that nothing should be done because people die in real life?

Karmic said:
The landscape issue is one that MA actually came back and modified again due to "investor" feedback, that investor, though certainly outspoken when he is not happy about some things has also recently been inquiring about buying a bank and has purchased several LA add ons. That may be relevant or not depending on your viewpoint.

Sure, it shows MA is willing to listen and change things, kudos. But only after massive negative feedback, let's give them half a kudos.

Karmic said:
Sadly I usually have fun and do well in the game yet get saddened when i read the forum bickering just like I've seen in every other game over the years ;(

People bicker, try it, it's fun.

Karmic said:
5) there is a cap on withdrawal fees actually. Deposit fees are up to your bank and also "capped" at the cost of a wire transfer.

Is this true? The only mention I found online was when CP was auctioned, from Dec. 8th to Dec. 28th a maximum withdrawal fee of $100 was put into effect. If it's true it should be neatly posted under the official website withdraw rules section.
 

Karmic

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As was stated before, I read the forums, I did not experience most of the issues first hand. Yeah it was a reboot, but if MA is going to upgrade the graphics engine they should fix these issues before hand. And the fact that natural disasters affect real life land values has nothing to do with anything. Lots of things happen in real life. If MA accidentally deleted some characters would you argue that nothing should be done because people die in real life?



Sure, it shows MA is willing to listen and change things, kudos. But only after massive negative feedback, let's give them half a kudos.

Nobody said anything about natural disasters, simply building more structures be it houses, highrises, movie theaters, whatever changes property values. Massive negative feedback is a bit of an overstatement I think, but how do you get full kudos? changing things with no feedback? Obviously that person wasn't hurt too bad by the change since it was "fixed" and he purchased even more, but the negativity on the forum caused you "pain" without even experiencing it. The bickering on the forum may be fun, but it also drives away people like yourself before they have a chance to make your own way, even when those accusations are not true.

Should the game never change to make sure that nobody is affected by anything? You are arguing, correctly imo, that there needs to be more to do, but new things dramatically affect the economy and affect the values of things people have. On the other you don't want things to change for the simple fact that it can affect your "investment".

You sound like a person that would do quite well in this game actually, to this point though, you haven't experienced it much at all, you've only read about it, and read about it in a place where people come to complain and throw rocks at the people doing well ;) If you have the patience to sweat 45k and read as much as you have I'm sure you have the patience to learn how to succeed once you try the game out for real.

I hope that you'll come to play the game a bit more, you don't need to deposit to do so, I became very successful myself without depositing but it's certainly easier if you drop 50 bucks in as if it were any other game. Once you've gotten some of your own experiences in the different professions of the game hopefully we'll see a perspective of a 3 month old noob.
 

Zib Black Onyx

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Am I the only one that thinks the OP is full of shit?

1. You talk and sound like a vet who is trolling
2. no one who is considering dumping $10k+ would spend the amount of time you supposedly spent sweating.

I could care less its not like im defending MA or anything - all the points in this thread are valid - just saying I smell bs.
 

KyrismaStarsong

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People need to learn to fucking read.

Relax man, your not doing such a hot job of introducing yourself either.

Imagine how people would react if you came in on your first day of work at a new job and started trashing your co-workers and sprouting off to your boss what an idiot he is and how screwed up things are and how you expect things to change if your going to continue your employ. I'd call BS on you too and you're doing pretty much the same thing here. You happen to have some good valid points but dude, you gotta work on your presentation.
 

Bombay

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Welcome, have a seat while I tell you of my magical month long journey through Planet Calypso!
etc, etc,
Peace, John Marshall Raleigh.

Great post I loved it and agree, we are in almost identical situations save I moved some other entertainment funds into EU(deposited). However you seemed to let the community get you off track in the subsequent thread.

I have a partial answer: no MMO is a proper MMO without ... fishing! :D

LOL I have to agree fishing would be a great thing to add along with the farming I read about somewhere.

In my opinion the fee on withdrawals should not be to low. People investing money in the game is of course good, but at the same time i don't like investors who just invest to earn money and take them out from the game. The fee should be high enough to make players think twice before takeing the money out of the game and to encourge them to keep the money in the EU world.

I agree somewhat, however the OP is right, any investor is going to add the fee whatever it is into his number count prior to investing which will make some investments less attractive than they already are. MA does need to put some thought into attracting business and get away from the gouging mindset they seem to be adopting.

{deleted}

Hugh Willose: Do you realize how boring sweating is? I've been doing it a month while reading the forums most of that time. I've been obsessively reading forums trying to soak up information precisely because I was planning on investing in a LA, and I've come to my conclusion that it's not a wise investment. I just thought that instead of fading away, I'd give my feedback on what the game would need for an investor like me to take part. I only do this because of the immense potential I see in this game.

With the server population speculated at maybe 10k, and with 800,000 Entropia accounts, these activities would mainly be designed to hook the new players. From what I have read, Entropia seems to have a really bad retention rate.

In other words, all those things would be used by new players who would continue to play the game and actually be a part of the player base. Sure right now maybe no one would use them because all the newbs can't get past the login screen. Or if they do, they feel that wonderful empty feeling after they use up $20 on hunting and wonder where to go from there. Quit, perhaps.

Good points

Yeah this probably isn't the greatest time to invest heavily into, well, anything really. Everyone is really cautious right now as we don't know what these new planets will bring, and what kind of effect it's going to have on the economy. A land area on Calypso may not be the wisest decision if suddenly everyone finds one of the new planets to be better for whatever reason.

If you're talking about investing in equipment, we've also been told that some weapons might not work on other planets, which could effect their current value as well.

The problem with this situation, which doesn't make much sense is that we all know that Mindark would LOVE to have your money. They would love to have you invest in their game. But they've been talking about these new planets for a couple years now, and for those couple years, a lot of people have been really cautious as far as investing in the game. There are a few nuts that'll throw money at anything, but I guarantee there would be a lot more people that would feel comfortable investing in EU if the universe's economic future wasn't SO left to be determined.

But I'd say if you've been reading up on the forums for the last month or so and have a good enough grasp of what's going on at this point (which it seems you do) you'll be well on your way to carving your niche here.

Only thing I can say is be open to criticism and advice. There is a lot of knowledge to be gained from people here. Everything from people that have been in the game for the better part of a decade, to people making a living off the game, to big spenders and investors, to people that closely study the intricate workings of the system. Do your best to learn from what they have to say. I always say the best way to be successful is to learn from successful people.

Everyone kind of goes through a little initiation here with the community. I certainly had mine. You start to think you have the game figured out, so you make a few posts trying to share your knowledge or some new idea you came up with. Chances are it's been thought of, or due to the nature of the game, would not be possible. How you deal with the evaluation of your comments goes a long way to determine your reputation with the community. Just try not to take it personal, like "Zhivago" obviously has...

Agreed as someone who also came here to invest I have decided to just play the game on a budget. The idea being that when all these things that are supposed to be "coming soon" actually do come I will have enough in game knowledge to know where to go with my resources. Until then I intend to play on a regular subscription gaming budget. I did jump start my first month though I wanted to see more of the game than sweating in my first couple weeks :cool:
 

Menace

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Welcome, have a seat while I tell you of my magical month long journey through Planet Calypso!

It all started when I read a Yahoo! article about Neverdie and his interstellar night club, and how he made a million dollars off of it. That sounded pretty cool. So I looked the game up and gave it a download.

At that point in time I thought the game was pretty new, maybe 1-2 years old (which might explain why I had never heard of it). But no, I found out later that it was over 5 years old which was pretty shocking. But anyway back to the download. I had figured that a lot of new players were downloading the game because there was a notice on the website that they were having issues with users downloading patches. Okay no problem, new game, new press, lots of new users (so I thought) and so I waited, starting up the launcher a few times a day to see if it worked, never did. A week passed before I decided to look into this further. I manually downloaded the patches and applied them in order to finally get the game to work. Then I remember a few days after that a new patch came up and the loader wouldn't automatically load it, AND trying to go to the website to download it wouldn't work either until I did some tricky stuff to get it to work. As a computer science major I know my way around a pc but I strongly feel that less knowledgeable users would have quit when the loader did not work.

So MindArk, making it as difficult as possible to simply log into the game as a new player is probably not the best business model... but I digress.

Hooray! A week has passed and I am now in the game! Hmm interesting, everyone is white, oh well I'm not bothered, I don't care about graphics much at all when it comes to games, I want content. A week later I find out that it is because my graphics are on safe mode, which was kinda funny. The Entropia world really is beautiful when the settings are up.

A few times I have traveled the world and I'm really amazed with it's beauty and scope, MindArk has done a great job with it I think. Well, that is until I read a post about a landowner who invested heavily in flat land which was sent in upheaval after the v10 update.

For the last month I have been sweating, exploring (a bit), and absorbing as much information about this game as I can. After a month my account is worth about 220 PED (approx. 45k sweat gathered).

So here's what I'm trying to get at: If I deposit it will be for an amount necessary to buy something I deem is a worthy investment, which I would estimate to be $15,000-30,000. However, a number of things concern me which is why I most likely will never invest in this game, some of those include:

1. MindArk placing graphics above game play in the following areas:
a. Changing landscape which affected the value of investors negatively.
b. Disabling the use of Hangars (I don't care what kind of compensation program is going to happen, that is just unprofessional).
c. Disabling taming and mindforce.
2. Instantiating "banks" which are little more than pawnshops.
3. Never following through with the stock market. Which leads to (4).
4. Keeping the scope of the game very narrow. For this game to truly be a virtual universe Calypso needs more than hunting, mining, and a few professions. I'm sure you guys at MindArk have some great ideas but invest in some talent and pump out some updates which fix some very basic issues fast.
5. Put a cap on deposit and withdraw fees. I can understand squeezing the nickles and dimes out of regular depositors, but I'm not going to deposit 20k in a game with the above mentioned issues only to get 19k back on the initial investment when I cash out.

Maybe you want to cater to the more casual player who deposits $20-100 on ammo and blows it all hoping for an uber hof, which is fine, I can certainly understand that. However, if you want large investors (which I'm sure you do), you guys really gotta get your stuff together!

I'll be casually sweating until I feel like this is game is a reasonable place to put some cash.

Peace, John Marshall Raleigh.

Nice read.... you hit the nail right on the head..... guess we won't be seeing any 15k + being put into the loot pool from you. :)
 

Superhal

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My new theory is that anybody who started after 2006 will never achieve anything in this game.

Those that started pre-gold or whatever had the opportunity to get items and assets that today are worth many thousands of times what they got them for (and in many cases, they looted for free.) Also, those that started early have more skills than anybody who started later, partially because they've been playing longer, but far more likely because MA changed the system since the early days. One example would be ESI's sold from the TT, allowing early players to chip without the 650% surcharge we pay today. Then, if you look at the "events", many, if not all of them, are won by either those with the highest skills (e.g. landgrabs) or the most assets (e.g. those who got PotE armors bought the necessary pieces, not found them.)

One of the fatal flaws in this game, imho, is that the best equipment (UL weapons, for example) can only be used by a small percentage of the players, meaning that there's little or no chance for a player starting today to get one nor use one without an unrealistic "investment."

As the system continues to change, the gap between the haves and have-nots increases as well. The last mod fap to drop in the last 3 years, for example, was gotten by a person who could kill daspletors. Someone who started after 2006 was a) highly unlikely to be able to kill daspletors, and b) had no chance to get a mod fap from any other monster, and c) needed to deposit somewhere in the neighborhood of $30k US to buy it from the person who found it.

This is just a theory, and my observations on how the system keeps getting worse and worse as time goes by. I'd love to be proven wrong by someone who has made great achievements since VU 9, but as of yet, no-one has.
 

DoubleWolf

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People need to learn to fucking read.
Don't worry too much about Zib. He's our resident Negative Nancy. I don't think I've seen a positive post out of him the entire time I've been on EF...

Those that started pre-gold or whatever had the opportunity to get items and assets that today are worth many thousands of times what they got them for (and in many cases, they looted for free.)
Most of the players that you talk to that actually had this opportunity will tell you that most of their assets were generated through their actions in game, be it some really good play in the professions, or through trading. The appreciation of their items, while certainly a contributing factor, was not primarily where their wealth came from.

I'd love to be proven wrong by someone who has made great achievements since VU 9, but as of yet, no-one has.

I think the only way someone could really be "uber" (I'm assuming this is your definition of "great achievement) as of VU9 is if they chipped their way there. Either that or spent VAST amounts of time and money skilling that far. It's not likely that anyone who started in VU9 would be to that point yet without those factors. VU9 has only been around for a little over two years though. There's a few players that people would consider "uber" that have started in 7, and I seem to remember hearing of a few that started in 8. It's possible, but from 9 we're not talking about a long enough time frame, even for the most dedicated of players...
 

kosmos

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My new theory is that anybody who started after 2006 will never achieve anything in this game.

I am curious what is an achievement?

Me personally I think i done way more than I ever expected too when i started back in nov 2007 up to now. I am not uber by what most people would consider and don't really care if I ever am. Being able to learn and play is what matters most to me.

Kosmos
 

JohnCapital

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My new theory is that anybody who started after 2006 will never achieve anything in this game.

Popfuzz, Gluepot, Karmic, George Skywalker, HuntingN8, Ghostknife and many others started well after me (I'm mid-'06, and many of them are '07 and '08) and last I heard they're doing just fine, tyvm.

Oh, and Akon, but he's leaving.

I can name more.

Folks have complained every year, and every year I see folks do both bad and good within those times.
 

Moribund

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One example would be ESI's sold from the TT, allowing early players to chip without the 650% surcharge we pay today.

What?:scratch2:

ESI cannot be bought from TT and never has. ESI (GSI back then) was introduced in oct 2004.
 

Fizzgig

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Superhal said:
As the system continues to change, the gap between the haves and have-nots increases...

That's very interesting. In the back of my mind I thought this may be the case, but I just didn't put it together. I just wondered how much easier it would be if this were 2004 and sweat was selling for four times what it is now, how great that would be!

This game is supposed to last decades, and for a game to be healthy it needs "upward mobility". All multi-user social games I've ever played have the problem you mention. From what I have seen Entropia seems to be the best at handling this problem, probably due to the fact that it is tied to the real economy. But I don't have the experience just about everyone here has with the game so I may be wrong. Still, 6 or so years and Entropia has a lot to look forward to.

Now I want to figure out why the gap increases, and how to slow or reverse it in a natural, systemic way.
 
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Sirhc

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My new theory is that anybody who started after 2006 will never achieve anything in this game.

Those that started pre-gold or whatever had the opportunity to get items and assets that today are worth many thousands of times what they got them for (and in many cases, they looted for free.) Also, those that started early have more skills than anybody who started later, partially because they've been playing longer, but far more likely because MA changed the system since the early days. One example would be ESI's sold from the TT, allowing early players to chip without the 650% surcharge we pay today. Then, if you look at the "events", many, if not all of them, are won by either those with the highest skills (e.g. landgrabs) or the most assets (e.g. those who got PotE armors bought the necessary pieces, not found them.)

ESI or GSI never sold from the TT and in the beginning you could not sell skills you had to grind for them. There were fap skillers who took advantage of MA's lacked stance on A/C to abuse the system and fap in acid pools and with low level drones and what not. Some skilled on trapped troxes and on each other so the system was not perfect back then and yeah there are many who attained what otherwise would not have been attained had they not exploited. Things like that still go on today maybe not the same actions but people will always try to get ahead.

Events IMO are designed to motivate people to skill up to participate or figure out ways to do so without using as many resources. LG will always change to some extent and those with the means will try to win that is just the nature of LG. Other events like Merry Mayhem are structured for certain skill levels and more than likely like LG will be tweaked in the future but that is just my opinion.

Loot was different even when I started in 2004 but it has grown. You don't need to max out a repairable items these days to be competitive and skills do move at a faster pace in SIB. I've been using XT to max it and will probably do so in two more (L) purchases unless I decide to chip but I doubt that since its nice to get a payback on money spent.

MA will always change the system some of which is good and some of which is not. Not everyone who uses a MM or IMP MKII or IMP or MOD FAP got them back in the day. Before I started and as far as I can remember you still had to deposit to play and loot items unless you were really lucky.

I've never quite got all this boohoo about the past when there are opportunities as we speak that people in the future will look back on and boohoo just the same.

Anything is possible in EU, sometimes it takes money sometimes time and sometimes a combination of both but make a goal and stick to it eventually it will happen. I want 100 blp dmg and 100 hit professions that is my goal I do what it takes to attain those goals will it take time? yeah money? yeah but today I am closer than I was 2 years ago and that happened on the heals of taking money out of EU during SGA. I'm not pre-gold, I never looted a repairable adj, imp, or mod item but I make it happen albeit a slower pace than others.

One of the fatal flaws in this game, imho, is that the best equipment (UL weapons, for example) can only be used by a small percentage of the players, meaning that there's little or no chance for a player starting today to get one nor use one without an unrealistic "investment."

un(L) weapons can be used by anyone at any time although it might not be the best eco wise to do so that is a personal choice as is using (L). SGA dropped a number of items in the market so there are more opportunities to acquire these items as well as a price drop on many. New planets might present new opportunities as well. There are some fairly reasonable (L) alternatives out there until one day you come across that great deal or awesome loot. I've taken a step back in my equipment setup and still enjoy EU a lot. I've gone from PoE to eMine and other specialized (L) and un(L) armors. From Adj VI and ML-35ME to DOA LM SGA and M71a1 from Adj FAP to Adj Hedok SK-50 SGA and still do OK hunting what I used to hunt and using (L) here and there to compete in events and what not. There are so many options available you can explore so many different avenues until you find a workable setup. Also an unrealistic "investment" to you might not be for someone else.

As the system continues to change, the gap between the haves and have-nots increases as well. The last mod fap to drop in the last 3 years, for example, was gotten by a person who could kill daspletors. Someone who started after 2006 was a) highly unlikely to be able to kill daspletors, and b) had no chance to get a mod fap from any other monster, and c) needed to deposit somewhere in the neighborhood of $30k US to buy it from the person who found it.

That person could kill Daspletors because someone was FAPing him. Not sure what equipment he was using but I don't think he could solo them or do it effectively. I also can't remember was it a Dasp Stalker or Dasp young that looted that FAP? I've seen new names globaling on all types of hard creatures and I know they have not been here for years so they are making it happen. I don't see any defeatist statements coming from them or am I just missing them? Contrary to what many think you can still play EU without all the Adj, Imp, Mod items out there. If you loot one, then awesome, if you can afford one, then great, otherwise you take the tools and skills you got and make do until you reach a goal like saving up enough ped to buy and item or skilling to the point where its cheaper to use an XT or some other weapon than fork out cash for a Mod Merc.

This is just a theory, and my observations on how the system keeps getting worse and worse as time goes by. I'd love to be proven wrong by someone who has made great achievements since VU 9, but as of yet, no-one has.

I get your theory believe it or not. My point is that there are a lot of opportunities today and yet to be seen. Many who start today or tomorrow might one day be looked back upon just how you look back on those prior to 2006. If you always stand looking back you will never see where you are right now and where you will go from there.

Lastly IMHO EU has always been about thinking long term "how can I set myself up for the future?" is something I ask myself in real life and in EU. EU is never going to be completely bug free, fair, or transparent. If it appeals to you then find your niche in the system if not there are plenty of other options available out there in the world. People are continually making it happen in EU from veterans, to mid levels, to newbies. I am constantly impressed with what I see from this community at times even from those who might not think I am their friend.

We were all newbies once and we all had daunting aspects to PE and EU but somehow many of us looked past the "impossibles" and saw something possible and its why we are still here today plugging away at mobs wondering when that great item will show up or that mining tower to appear. Aside from that its about growing your avatar, pedcard, personal knowledge, and tangible wealth IMO while having fun in Sci Fi - ish MMO with other like minded individuals. If it seems impossible or your not having fun than you need to be asking yourself some serious questions about what you can live with and what you can not.
 
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DoubleWolf

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I just wondered how much easier it would be if this were 2004 and sweat was selling for four times what it is now, how great that would be!

Now I want to figure out why the gap increases, and how to slow or reverse it in a natural, systemic way.

Sweat actually did go for a considerable amount more than what it does right now. But it also took longer to get any decent amount. Overall, you ended up getting about the same amount of value per time spent, which I think is MA's goal. All they did was increase the rate at which sweat could be gathered. Sweat price lowers, but you get more of it.

As far as the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots", it's only the perception based on the fact that you know people make a living off this game. If you're not making money, it appears that the gap is widening. In reality, money can be made at ALL levels in this game. I've been able to turn a profit, albeit a small one, doing low level activities. I could see how, with the right skills and gear and enough ped to spend, one could actually make a living doing this. So while the upper echelon players are continuing to make money many times over, that's not to say the opportunity is not there for you to work your way up and do the same thing.

Just don't be in a rush to spend crap loads of money trying to hit a big ATH. Assume you will never get one, and play like you'll get 90% TT value back on what you spend. How are you going to profit based on those parameters?
 
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