Please stop adding nanocubes to any BP

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It would seem you're going about manufacturing the wrong way. :)

Why are we doing 1k clicks? We only need 1 success (with residue on L items) to get an item we want. Doing 1k clicks is how the HOF chasing works and how EP crafting works. There's a lot of useless items to craft, but there's a lot of great items too, you just need the blueprints and those are the true rarities. If you want to help the economy, you want to manufacture useable items that can be sold to other participants and better for you if it has a good Markup to help net you profits or cover any losses (netting you free skills to open up the possibility of crafting more items).

It's cool if you want to gamble/HOF chase but if you're going to do it, do it with materials that another participant (or yourself) has looted from an in game activity. This stimulates economic growth. Nanocubes do not.
 

Kerham

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It would seem you're going about manufacturing the wrong way. :)

Why are we doing 1k clicks? We only need 1 success (with residue on L items) to get an item we want. Doing 1k clicks is how the HOF chasing works and how EP crafting works.
Doing 1k clicks is chasing the average. HOF chasing is done clicking on condition, not clicking many. Clicking k's and k's of times is the exact opposite of HoF chasing, is melting the HoF in average return and seeing true results. Clicking for 1 success is the most precise definition of gambling through crafting in Entropia.

As I said, craft yourself before writing these things.
 

Mel

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The people that argue a 0 mu, tt item equivalent to probes or ammo is needed, don't understand that there is no equivalent cost to use them. The crafting machine neither decays, breaks, needs repair, uses or depletes any ingame resources. It is the crafting tool. Try just going out with just probes or ammo, you have to add a tool or weapon to use them. You can't use them without decay or cost, and/or mu either with L or what item cost originally. Or try comparing to melee. If you hunt, even with ammo fed misses, you still incur additional cost/decay/mu. You are both fueling and consuming in the the player to player economy, which is quite directly related to the auction for basic materials. The value of the components in the new guns, with few exceptions, aint much, especially to avg player. I honestly believe the majority of players would gladly pay 2-3% more for their ARMatrix, if their common material loots were 2-3% higher in mu and saleable. MA's auction fees and income from that has to be down, there's only 1/2 the auctions there were. I don't see how replacing resources with the tt has, or will, help anyone long term...incl MA.
 

Aio

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The people that argue a 0 mu, tt item equivalent to probes or ammo is needed, don't understand that there is no equivalent cost to use them. The crafting machine neither decays, breaks, needs repair, uses or depletes any ingame resources. It is the crafting tool. Try just going out with just probes or ammo, you have to add a tool or weapon to use them. You can't use them without decay or cost, and/or mu either with L or what item cost originally.
This doesn't make any sense.

Weapon+Ammo = cost. Cost x 0.9 = return.

Crafting = cost. Cost x 0.9 = return.

Sure, there's additional cost if you're using (L) items in your hunting or mining.. but if you're using unlimited, then the two are directly analogous.
 

Kerham

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Not only that, but crafting's tt return is the lowest of all three professions. Crafting is at 95% when using SIB bp and 90% when using nonSIB bp.
 

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There is nothing bad in asking for more player input.

Some people really do enjoy casinoing on explosives and boxes, don't they. To the detriment of everyone else.
 

Aio

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There is nothing bad in asking for more player input.

Some people really do enjoy casinoing on explosives and boxes, don't they. To the detriment of everyone else.
Specifically state how someone crafting EP is a detriment to you.
 

Meg

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Specifically state how someone crafting EP is a detriment to you.
It entirely excludes the player economy in a game that has an ambition to be a sandbox.
 

mastermesh

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There is nothing bad in asking for more player input.

Some people really do enjoy casinoing on explosives and boxes, don't they. To the detriment of everyone else.
It's no detriment to you what others do... Sure, you can't nickel and dime the ep crafters like you were able to do with markup before ep existed on every single craft click they do, but that's NOT a detriment to you. Actually it may be a good thing for you as it lowers the cost of entry for folks to try out crafting... thus creating MORE crafters that will buy your stuff at a markup someday.

Just because you can't scalp everyone's tickets and make a buck off of them entering the casino (and yes, all 3 professions are ultimately a casino - not just crafting) doesn't mean you are put at any sort of detriment.
 

Aio

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It entirely excludes the player economy in a game that has an ambition to be a sandbox.
It entirely excludes the player economy, for one specific activity - even, one specific type of one specific activity. It does not affect the overall game one bit, if you think an ep gambler would do the same on a regular BP you're mistaken as I highlighted above, let alone the fact that you think this would be a good thing.
 

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I would like to see more sweat added instead of nanocubes. Just even 10 sweat per click on some BPs or even all the new armatrix would help the economy out.

I think even EP should use sweat, lyst oil. Sorry but crafting should be an elite profession where you craft with MU to sell items at higher MU. This stimulates the economy as resources need much higher value.

Get rid of TT crafting only.
 

Fiona Simmons

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For a working economy stuff need to break and to be replaced. Entropia isn't using this concept enough and unlimited items are the bane of our economy. If we ever want to have some kind of working cycle and interaction between the professions ul items need to go for good and all of them and at the same time we need the tools to supply equipment of all kinds trough crafting so its not hard and overly expensive to get and maintain your standard gear level.
 

valentin

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In the past, the game was stable and credible to its players.

Both the player's economy was strong where there was MU in various items that increased the player to play more in the game and the company because the players were willing to spend more money in the game.

The economy was stable and credible because there was a realistic economic path to follow
if you wish to advance you could invest in both expensive things and in the game it self, one can say that there were two economies an outer and an internal economy.

# Outer Economy is your items and skills.

# Internal economy is the money you spent in the game.

The balance between the economies was credible the player did know that it just not lost everything on his investment and the game the company gained the profit they needed and wanted.

3 things that the game should never have been introduced.

1. L - items

2. Maxed items under LVL 100.

3. The company's aim to reduce MU in everything in the game.

In my opinion, this has made the game economy similar to Zimbabwe's economy.
 

GoNi

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3 things that the game should never have been introduced.

1. L - items

2. Maxed items under LVL 100.

3. The company's aim to reduce MU in everything in the game.

In my opinion, this has made the game economy similar to Zimbabwe's economy.
I don´t agree here.

The problem was not the L items maxed below Lvl 100, as if it is L it decays and needs to be replaced.
Remember when it all started:
The looted Korss vs the crafted P5s even the whole Breer L series weapons, and later the aspis, was a good boost to economy and gave crafters items that actually sold for MU.

The really bad thing MA did, is to drop all this L things as UL versions aswell. This killed the the MUs.
Today you can get UL sib for nearly every level for relative low MU, if all this Sib would be only L then it still would be reasonable to craft this things, but who buys a weapon at 135% when you can get the same weapon UL for +200 ?

Even worse if you look at the FAPs.

The problem is not the L items, its the UL items that kill all MU for crafted things.
 
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wizz

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For a working economy stuff need to break and to be replaced. Entropia isn't using this concept enough and unlimited items are the bane of our economy. If we ever want to have some kind of working cycle and interaction between the professions ul items need to go for good and all of them and at the same time we need the tools to supply equipment of all kinds trough crafting so its not hard and overly expensive to get and maintain your standard gear level.
This could easily be solved if you need materials to repair UL items instead of just ped.
 

trance

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Better give us some markup for some minerals. Instead of 4-5 peds nano just add common minerals like caldo,belk,garcen, lyta, melchi etc.
YES PLEASE ! :bowdown:
 

R4tt3xx

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Remove "advanced" nano from the tt and allow it to be crafted from common mining mats.
Basic nano should be in the tt.

Following this pattern add different types of ammo, probes and nanos to the game, with only the basic one being accessible from the tt.
 

LeelooM

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People will never stop undercutting because they need peds again very fast so it will not solve anything.

BTW look in auction at the cheapest sellers .... 95% traders/resellers that buy on the streets or buy cheap on auction and sell when they get a few ped more
 

Alina

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There's already a nearly zero-MU input item involved in crafting, residue....
i always undercut on common minerals even lower the price for them...why because i really dont care about 1-2 % i rather have peds to stack other things. Like i had 20-30k peds of each mineral so i rather save something that can gain 5-15% in time.
 

Alukat123

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i always undercut on common minerals even lower the price for them...why because i really dont care about 1-2 % i rather have peds to stack other things. Like i had 20-30k peds of each mineral so i rather save something that can gain 5-15% in time.
not sure what the point in regards to my post is but okay...
The "other things" may get even higher in MU if you sell the common minerals slower by stopping to undercut ^^
 

Alina

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not sure what the point in regards to my post is but okay...
The "other things" may get even higher in MU if you sell the common minerals slower by stopping to undercut ^^
lol nvm i clicked wrong post :laugh:
 

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Can't happen. To make crafting fair, there should be a zero-MU input (nanocubes).

To balance otherwise, you would have to make ammo & probes craftable; we all saw what a shitshow that turned out to be with explosives.
Sorry for reacting on such an old post in this topic. But I wanted to say something about this post, because the nanocube shitstorm still exists.


Positive:
I do agree that there should be a zero-MU input option, yes, but not like it is now. Reason, see the negative.

Negative:
There shouldn't be any high crafts with zero-MU input!
=> Mining and crafting do have Zero-MU input, that's true, but not the way you said it in the post above... Yes, ammo is zero-MU, yes, probes are zero-MU. But with only ammo or only probes, you can't hunt, nor mine. You still need tools/weapons, and those do have MU! Except for the TT guns/tools, but those are low level ones.


So, yes, I agree that there should be a zero-MU option for crafting as well, but it should be a low level craft, for beginners. EP 4 is not for beginners anymore, but is pretty much the craft that globals/hofs most of all in the last few years...

So imo, the way to fix this:
- Keep EP 1 with nanocubes only, as it's a beginner BP, so it could be compared to hunting/mining with TT gear.
- Change EP2/EP3/EP4 to Nanocubes + other materials, so that these aren't zero-MU anymore, because they simply shouldn't be like that! they're for higher levels, and have too high global chances due to the high TT input to be a zero-MU BP... So add other MU stuff in the BP's, but raise the returns a bit compared to current EP's, to make up for the extra MU. This will raise the MU on those input items as well.
- Having Nanocubes in other blueprints is okay, as long as there are other ingredients inside as well. There's nothing wrong with 1 part being non-mu as long as not everything is non-mu. After all, hunting and mining have non-mu ammo and probes as part of the needed items as well.
 
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mastermesh

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Negative:
There shouldn't be any high crafts with zero-MU input!
=> Mining and crafting do have Zero-MU input, that's true, but not the way you said it in the post above... Yes, ammo is zero-MU, yes, probes are zero-MU. But with only ammo or only probes, you can't hunt, nor mine. You still need tools/weapons, and those do have MU! Except for the TT guns/tools, but those are low level ones.
The blueprints for the higher level ep crafting are NOT zero MU. Those are the 'tools' the crafters use, similar to the MU the hunter pays for that pricey gun. Not saying I completely disagree with you just that it's sort of the same...

If they do alter the explosive crafting from how it is now, hopefully they'll do adjustments across the board on everything else... perhaps remove ability to sell all ammo, including explosives, to the Trade terminals. You buy the ammo, good, now go use it... or maybe just make the ammo you buy all universal.
 

Suza

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The blueprints for the higher level ep crafting are NOT zero MU. Those are the 'tools' the crafters use, similar to the MU the hunter pays for that pricey gun. Not saying I completely disagree with you just that it's sort of the same...

If they do alter the explosive crafting from how it is now, hopefully they'll do adjustments across the board on everything else... perhaps remove ability to sell all ammo, including explosives, to the Trade terminals. You buy the ammo, good, now go use it... or maybe just make the ammo you buy all universal.
If you reread their comment, they plainly said zero-mu input. The BP is not an input item, it is a tool used to craft with.
 

mastermesh

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If you reread their comment, they plainly said zero-mu input. The BP is not an input item, it is a tool used to craft with.
correct, a tool that has to be looted... through a lot of crafting in the process.
 

Atrax

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If you reread their comment, they plainly said zero-mu input. The BP is not an input item, it is a tool used to craft with.
They did, and then went on to reference the cost of tools with other professions.

Ammo is 0 MU. So are nanocubes.

The comment she replied to is actually self negating/contradicting regarding the nature of "an input".

Also in fact you can buy a 0 MU gun that uses 0 MU ammo both at the TT but you can't buy a 0 MU BP that uses 0 MU nanocubes, so there's that.

I wouldn't spend too much time championing the point.
 

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Sorry for reacting on such an old post in this topic. But I wanted to say something about this post, because the nanocube shitstorm still exists.


Positive:
I do agree that there should be a zero-MU input option, yes, but not like it is now. Reason, see the negative.

Negative:
There shouldn't be any high crafts with zero-MU input!
=> Mining and crafting do have Zero-MU input, that's true, but not the way you said it in the post above... Yes, ammo is zero-MU, yes, probes are zero-MU. But with only ammo or only probes, you can't hunt, nor mine. You still need tools/weapons, and those do have MU! Except for the TT guns/tools, but those are low level ones.


So, yes, I agree that there should be a zero-MU option for crafting as well, but it should be a low level craft, for beginners. EP 4 is not for beginners anymore, but is pretty much the craft that globals/hofs most of all in the last few years...

So imo, the way to fix this:
- Keep EP 1 with nanocubes only, as it's a beginner BP, so it could be compared to hunting/mining with TT gear.
- Change EP2/EP3/EP4 to Nanocubes + other materials, so that these aren't zero-MU anymore, because they simply shouldn't be like that! they're for higher levels, and have too high global chances due to the high TT input to be a zero-MU BP... So add other MU stuff in the BP's, but raise the returns a bit compared to current EP's, to make up for the extra MU. This will raise the MU on those input items as well.
- Having Nanocubes in other blueprints is okay, as long as there are other ingredients inside as well. There's nothing wrong with 1 part being non-mu as long as not everything is non-mu. After all, hunting and mining have non-mu ammo and probes as part of the needed items as well.

What a BS sorry!

Terminator is a zero MU input, it can be repaird for TT
High end amps, Hypcharge aso are zero MU inpot, they can be repaired for TT
Armors like PoE, Suprem and stuff is zero MU input, it can be repaired for TT
Mod/Imp FAPs, Hedoc Mayham and whatever is zero MU input, it can be repaired for TT
ModMercs aso, all can be repaired for TT

A high end hunter does not have to pay MU if he don´t want.

Well many use pills, enhancers and stuff, which has MU, but it is their decission to do so. It is also possible to hunt Mulciber with zero MU input -- globals very often!
Sanking can be hunted with zero MU input - always HoF !!!

The cycle speed in hunting and crafting is different, yes thats why crafting has more globals, but that was already the case befor EP IV.

Same can be said for Mining:
OF-106 repairable
well amps not that much, but a few exist that are repairable
Excavators, repairable
Nobody forces miners to use L amps or L finders or L excavators, there is option to go with zero MU input.

If they remove EP IV from crafting (zero MU input for high rollers in crafting), then please make Mulciber/Sanking and whatever big ass mob, that globals with nearly every kill imun to UL weapon damage.

If there is no ZERO MU input for high roller crafters, there shouldn´t be zero MU input for hunters!
Same for mining, biggest MULTIs come indoors, so make indoor mining for L gear only, unbelieveable that some one can hit 10kish at Foma using a repairable OF-106 even unamped at zero MU input.

Well compared to weapons and the UL amps for mining, the Explo IV BP is dirt cheap, but every hunter miner, feel free to buy one and craft it yourself if it is really sooooo UBER !


And about the nanocubes/probes/enhancer components from TT that are also used ZERO MU input in crafting, its good to have such BPs, as this allows crafters to pay a little more MU for the other materials needed in that BP and still have a chance to BE, while a BP where all needed materials have MU a crafter rarly will get to 90% return rate, as the MU for materials is definately lost and you get only 90% from TT value input on the long run.

So please all you NON CRAFTERs

STFU and leave the crafters click whatever they want, even if it is 100% Explo IV for ZERO MU INPUT !!!

Enough hunters/miners don´t pay a single pec MU as they have 100% UL gear, repairable at ZERO MU input!
 

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Right one year ago you could still buy gear that would basically print you ped (they deserved it right) and the whole time and still today people are on that EP ruined the economy.

MA straight took a cut of the money that gamblers were spending crafting items that were never sold at MV (or in most cases for any MU at all) but TT'd.

I understand some player resentment but also it's a lot of single cycle wasted ped and they had to keep the doors open while 3.xx and even 4+ DPP players were takin' home the bacon.

TBH I hope for some actual rebalancing so I can feel like I want to be a crafter again but at least in the meantime they've shut that hole and made hunting a lot more tolerable for a lot of players.
 

Divinity

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What a BS sorry!



So please all you NON CRAFTERs

STFU and leave the crafters click whatever they want, even if it is 100% Explo IV for ZERO MU INPUT !!!
What he said :wise:
 
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