Removal of Iron Challenges

Stefan 008 Bond

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You know the old man joke about 1 man driving the wrong way in freeway?
"It's worse than that", he replies, "there are hundreds of them!"

You act here exactly like this 1 old man.


Devs told 1 year ago why the removal.
The iron missions were too problematic to maintain or to change anything on them.
Also costed a lot of server performance.

They cannot solve to not start the codex for individuals till he finished the iron for that mob.
So because codex would start immediately, there was the grace period with double rewards, not just grace, and codex after end of grace.

Also waiting for all iron to be completed would last forever, like every new avatar from day 1 was picking not just small mobs, but eomon, daspletor etc too, when most of them never ever will be able to hunt those.
Also there are many more less active, or even inactive avatar's are exist, if you cry after 1 year grace period, why do you think they wont cry after 2, or 3?
Or even after return of 5-10 years of inactivity?
If they wait for everybody to complete, irons would never been removed.
Maybe they should have stopped their codex idea the very second they realised they would have to take away everyone missions and found a better way to incorporate it. Because they most certainly did set up the mission system originally to take an average player 5,10 years or more.

About this joke with the old man... is this old man senile or on meds?
Because if not there is most certainly a chance an old wise man would know a thing or two that the other hundred cars do not.
Its not a stretch, especially these days that 100 cars could be going the wrong direction lol
 

WoenK

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Not complaining about the missions ending any more.
But what I do not get is....
WHO PAYS FOR THE SKILLS YOU GET FROM CODEX?

There is no such thing as a free lunch, skill prices have a market value and that market has to be somehow controlled.
Really don't get it...my bank account says that the moment I reach a certain rank in Codex I could have bought that skills of auction.
And I am not talking about those 0.1 Ped Skill returns but rather the 30 PED ones.
30Ped Evade in Evade for killing 500 Mobs ?
Have your return rate go down because of that ?

On the missions I could at least choose not to take them, I could choose not to kill 30k critters.
On Codex you have absolutely no choice, you take it and you must live with it.
And the higher up the ranks you go the more boring it gets.... 0,01 percent every 5-10 kills ? Wow...really exciting
I remember someone saying "It is the same just do the maths", nope...it is not ... lower ranks I coudl sometimes get anything betweenn 1-3% or even 0.1to 0.5%....nithing consistent...and nothing really satisfying.


And anybody that thinks he gets something from MA...
NOOB!
Read the forum
Some people hand out stuff for free, some people even did treasure hunts.
MA is _NOT_ a charity, and we are only participants and _NOT_ business partners.

In RCE there is absolutely nothing free.


aye....bye Calypso for at least a year , finally taking my trip to the planets starting next week...allways wanted to do it but now I am forced (because no missions means no archievements, which collecting is my playstyle)
 

DavinFelth

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It's ok I just drank four 7.0 alc content beers and took a puff off og indica kush, everything will work out :)
Word- no hard feelings here. Once I walked away from the PC i thought -aw who cares anyhow. LOL
 

atomicstorm

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There is no bye. im merely checking out another game which I do all the time since im a gamer and I have interest in game development.
Wow, pretty shocked by your reply tbh, must have hit a nerve i apologize.
I thought I offered some kind words to you, again you didnt reciprocate. You must be one hell of a boss to work for. Smh

Listen to your rant, its like I never played a game before? Really? Ok boss
Yes, I have a strong issue with the sudden complaint when the game is changing. We've been asking for the game to change/to improve. Every time, no matter what is done, Mindark makes a decision, there is always some select individuals to come on this forum to complain.

Games evolve and change. You are foolish to think this one wouldn't. Even if they are slower. Many other things are worth complaining about.
 

Stefan 008 Bond

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Yes, I have a strong issue with the sudden complaint when the game is changing. We've been asking for the game to change/to improve. Every time, no matter what is done, Mindark makes a decision, there is always some select individuals to come on this forum to complain.

Games evolve and change. You are foolish to think this one wouldn't. Even if they are slower. Many other things are worth complaining about.
Its called speak now or forever hold your peace...
Please dont toss me into the "usual troll PCF crowd" bin. I never partake in any of that i generally try to contribute postively with ideas and reporting testing data.
I try to only pop in with dissent on the big issues where yes, you just said it yourself, MA has a well known track record of upsetting its player base with head scratching moves.

So now I am foolish too? Hmm more name calling ok.
Its actually you who are foolish to continually compare this RCE platform to any other game and what goes in there.

More important things to complain about then the blatant disregard for the communities time and money invested?
I think not.
Im not sure where your values are, but time and money are two of the most valuable resources there is.
Especially when viewed through the scope of thousands of people being affected.
Im not sure what gripe you have in game that you consider to be a bigger issue than that loss.
 

atomicstorm

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Its called speak now or forever hold your peace...
Please dont toss me into the "usual troll PCF crowd" bin. I never partake in any of that i generally try to contribute postively with ideas and reporting testing data.
I try to only pop in with dissent on the big issues where yes, you just said it yourself, MA has a well known track record of upsetting its player base with head scratching moves.

So now I am foolish too? Hmm more name calling ok.
Its actually you who are foolish to continually compare this RCE platform to any other game and what goes in there.

More important things to complain about then the blatant disregard for the communities time and money invested?
I think not.
Im not sure where your values are, but time and money are two of the most valuable resources there is.
Especially when viewed through the scope of thousands of people being affected.
Im not sure what gripe you have in game that you consider to be a bigger issue than that loss.
You mean bigger loss than getting the reward at the end that pales greatly in comparison to the rewards offered in the codex? I can think of many and few that are less.

RCE or not, it is still a game and it would do everyone really well to remember that.

This would be a fine example of a model called sunk cost. You are focused on something with few rewards, neglecting something of fewer gains because of "money" invested for it. Time to move on.
 

Mega

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Iron missions introduced March 2010

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ds/iron-man-10-000-argonaut-completed.162830/ ;)

Iron missions rebalanced October 2012 (mission reward at each stage rather than just 1 at the end after several months notice, extra spawns provided)

Iron mission withdrawal notified September 2019 (extended from 1 month to 1 year to allow Eomon / Longtooth etc to be completed)

Iron missions removal September 2020 as notified.


I'm sorry, but this time, the Vogon Constructor Fleet gave us enough warning. We knew it was coming & besides for a lot of us, we haven't had 1 year to do them, we have had over 8!!
 

Torene

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indeed it was stated 1 year ago, reminded with the start of migration, and then repeated again 1 week before the release - and yet there is crying about "not enough notice" - wtf is wrong with some individuals :D
if you ask me this was one of the changes with the most upfront notices and longest wait period!
I would like to make a small complaint about the notifications. Not that there wasn't enough time, because I definitely believe there was. However, notification was only posted here on PCF and the Calypso client loader. As someone who was on Arkadia at the beginning of last year and came to Calypso after migration had started I missed BOTH of those first two notices you mentioned. As such I was blissfully unaware and went back to Arkadia afterwards none the wiser. I've been grinding on Calypso since I was made aware of the change, in February of this year. But with the sheer number of missions I had left, most of which I was on stage 4/5/Bronze, I'm definitely not going to complete them. Shame too, that Dasp reward is really good. :(

I do always look at the most recent notifications on the launcher, but usually only the first one or two. Couple that with the number of announcements around migration I'm not surprised I missed that reminder. Once I found out I tried to find the original mention in PCF but was completely unable to find it.

So my complaint isn't that there wasn't enough notification, but that if you missed the notification you were lost completely. It would've been nice if they had added a picture at the top of the Calypso launcher. I definitely would've seen that, because I scroll through those while waiting for the game to load. It also would've been nice if they had had a Universe wide announcement, instead of solely a planet one.

Anyways, I think that covers everything I wanted to say. Now back to shooting, I've got mobs to kill!
 

Stefan 008 Bond

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You mean bigger loss than getting the reward at the end that pales greatly in comparison to the rewards offered in the codex? I can think of many and few that are less.

RCE or not, it is still a game and it would do everyone really well to remember that.
Well you would be wrong then. Dont worry there's alot of that going around today.
I will just leave this here:

from EULA

2. Description
MindArk provides the Entropia Universe as a service, described as a virtual universe. The Entropia Universe is not a "game".

Not sure if that wording is still in there this current iteration but it certainly used to be.
A quick scan of the TOU as well as EULA will show youbthey repeadetly refer to EU as a platform and a service.
The word game is nowhere to be found...
 

Torene

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....after several months notice, extra spawns provided....
Is there a list anywhere of the extra spawns? I know of the Dasp / Cornaterion spawns in OLA 60, but some of the smaller mobs also don't have any good spawns.
 

Stefan 008 Bond

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Iron missions introduced March 2010

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ds/iron-man-10-000-argonaut-completed.162830/ ;)

Iron missions rebalanced October 2012 (mission reward at each stage rather than just 1 at the end after several months notice, extra spawns provided)

Iron mission withdrawal notified September 2019 (extended from 1 month to 1 year to allow Eomon / Longtooth etc to be completed)

Iron missions removal September 2020 as notified.


I'm sorry, but this time, the Vogon Constructor Fleet gave us enough warning. We knew it was coming & besides for a lot of us, we haven't had 1 year to do them, we have had over 8!!
You too are missing the larger point my friend.
The notice duration isnt the issue.
The fact that they are now building a history of doing this over and over should not be stood for.
They are the developers, they can find a way to progress the game forward without shooting itself in the foot every other step they take.
The fact that its a longterm grind based multiplanet platform RCE should make them even more wary. Because this is NOT a game.
 

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Is there a list anywhere of the extra spawns? I know of the Dasp / Cornaterion spawns in OLA 60, but some of the smaller mobs also don't have any good spawns.
No that was in 2012, because there weren't good spawns for some mobs at the time eg Longu, Mindark laid on extra spawns for 2 weeks to help us to complete the iron mission before the changeover happened.
 

Torene

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No that was in 2012, because there weren't good spawns for some mobs at the time eg Longu, Mindark laid on extra spawns for 2 weeks to help us to complete the iron mission before the changeover happened.
Oh phooey, I thought you were talking about recently. Ah well, thanks!
 

osten

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I would like to see SOME kind of compensation for this, like tokens. It will most likely be turned into playtime anyway and not cost MA a penny.
 

Stefan 008 Bond

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This would be a fine example of a model called sunk cost. You are focused on something with few rewards, neglecting something of fewer gains because of "money" invested for it. Time to move on.
Im sorry boss, tell me again what I was focusing on?
Tell me again what and where i should value my interests?
What was it again i was neglecting boss?
I didnt realise I had any responsibilities
I didnt realise I had to share the same values as you on this "service"
 

jetsina

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The things I dislike about the change to codex are that the repeatables cost progressively more and more for the same return, and that MA didn't tell us this when they introduced it. This resulted in me being rather pissed off and stopping my progress on one mob there and then, as I don't like having declining progressions 'to look forward to'.
As far as old missions go, the original warning time was completely inadequate. MA listened, extended it to approx. one year to now, and that period is now over. I know various players who looked at what they had open and which iron missions they would try and complete. It is a rather rare example of MA listening and responding in a fair and reasonable way. It's a pity, in my opinion, that people still go on the complaining trail on this one.
Hopefully MA will be able to read the wish to make repeatables linear and respond nicely on that, but they don't have to, ofc; it's a bonus, we have no right to it...
 
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tBANNA

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ouukey :scratch2: .... :scratch:

now i m confuse, the Auctioneer barely can stand the need of ESI, and ppl are complaining for rewards...skills basically !?! Well complains should not come from those who actually dont chip off or have passed the 105 lvl?

nvm, is not why i m here :smirk:

Dear MA please add the stamina - aka STA - to the list of attributes that can grow naturally ( if is in plan to make changes for the attribute rewards )

cheers !
 

NevadaJake

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Dear MA please add the stamina - aka STA - to the list of attributes that can grow naturally ( if is in plan to make changes for the attribute rewards )

cheers !
Would be a dream come true if they unlocked Stamina so we could gain it naturally. +1
:thumbup:
 

Evey

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[Moderated: 2.3 - Personal Disputes]


The things I dislike about the change to codex are that the repeatables cost progressively more and more for the same return, and that MA didn't tell us this when they introduced it.
I said it again in this thread and will say it again: MA will never do the math for the player. That is up to the players to discover...
And I have mixed feeling about this.. because I would also like more skill but some people (like me for example) could do some missions so many times that would be insane; I did the summer creatures repeatable 32 times first year it was available so there needs to be a a slowdown somewhere, just like skilling goes slower.
 
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Evey

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[Moderated: 2.3 - Personal Disputes]


This game needs development badly in order to survive. It cannot stay in Alpha forever as some lunatics would prefer. Development will often mean cutting out parts of the legacy product. I can agree we will miss certain parts but I will gladly miss such parts to get new content. I agree loosing some progress, of any amount, sucks, I for one have 41 open iron mission on various stages, 3 of them are bronze. Chances are that in the next 5 years I could have finished 2-3 chains, unless things changed for that mob, especially MU pr special events so I'm not so long and thanks for all the fish. Since codex I started doing some of the missions again mainly because of the double reward aspect, but still it was like 10% of the hunt for iron... So having 41 open irons, I'm sad to see them go but happier to get the codex instead.

The community does take stands on many occasions; on very few of them, too few, things change the way we wan it. But we all just have to deal with it and let it go. Do like TheProphet does, vote with the wallet and shove your principles, this change has a ton more positive aspects than negative aspects as almost everyone in this thread is trying to get you to understand.
 
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jetsina

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I don't mind MA not telling us the maths of something we can work out. What I don't like is MA making the system 'less good' the more work you put in, or requiring us to travel a fair way along a path before we can do the maths.
By all means have one-off rewards for killing a set number of mobs as a mission, ok, that's nice, but if something is set to be repeatable, then it should not reward less and less as you grind. That is quite a disincentive, at least to me. And skill gains already have less and less effect as you get them, although the tt gain stays the same as you progress if you choose to chip out, I believe.
But not the gain on repeatable codex, that is my point about a big change from old repeatables to codex that few people are flagging up.
 

girtsn

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Just to be clear, I am not too happy about removal of iron mission progress, as I do have quite some stages that would be nice to complete as they are not that far from completion, and always liked to see the number of missions completed growing.
Also not too happy about the amount of skills that codex gives for real turnover grinders (I am not in that category), it is pretty crazy what one can achieve in progression using these.
Also "So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish" was meant just as a counter-quote from "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" to indicate that moving on as the dolphins did is a better strategy than complaining about the planned "highway" on week 51 out of 52.

But then I understand the current system requires way more maintenance (as each mission chain is a custom setup) + more error-prone, is bad for performance (probably due to the way how progress is tracked), requires extensive documentation for the missions and their rewards.
And going after bad mobs just because of urge to complete most missions is a bad strategy (talking from experience with my tracking of Iron-shit category), so Codex it is a good thing in that respect.
"So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish" to the iron mission chains indeed.
 

Evey

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I don't mind MA not telling us the maths of something we can work out. What I don't like is MA making the system 'less good' the more work you put in, or requiring us to travel a fair way along a path before we can do the maths.
By all means have one-off rewards for killing a set number of mobs as a mission, ok, that's nice, but if something is set to be repeatable, then it should not reward less and less as you grind. That is quite a disincentive, at least to me. And skill gains already have less and less effect as you get them, although the tt gain stays the same as you progress if you choose to chip out, I believe.
But not the gain on repeatable codex, that is my point about a big change from old repeatables to codex that few people are flagging up.
I agree in the way that more is better than less :D
But let's be realistic here. Let me show you an example:
I did the repeatable in summer 32 times. if it wasn't progressively more expensive, instead of 32 times I would have completed it 141 times which means:
- about 2750 ped tt EXTRA skill group 1 or
- about 1720 ped tt EXTRA skill group 2 or
- about 860 ped tt EXTRA skill group 3.
Edit: In only 20 days!

BELIEVE me, I would have been very happy with that extra skill but let's be realistic here....
Maybe you're right, maybe it was a bug and will be addressed, I'd be the happiest.
Or maybe this is the point where they will add the almost useless but so sought after attribute tokens :D :D
 
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Ludvig|MindArk

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Since I know people are passionate about this subject, I have tried to be a bit more forgiving with the moderation, but I still feel that I need to point out that insults/flaming is not acceptable on this forum, and personal disputes have no place here.

Please keep the discussion civil and on topic, or I will have to start removing more posts and potentially hand out temp bans, which I really do not want to if it can be avoided.
 

jetsina

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I agree in the way that more is better than less :D
But let's be realistic here. Let me show you an example:
I did the repeatable in summer 32 times. if it wasn't progressively more expensive, instead of 32 times I would have completed it 141 times which means:
- about 2750 ped tt EXTRA skill group 1 or
- about 1720 ped tt EXTRA skill group 2 or
- about 860 ped tt EXTRA skill group 3.
Edit: In only 20 days!

BELIEVE me, I would have been very happy with that extra skill but let's be realistic here....
Maybe you're right, maybe it was a bug and will be addressed, I'd be the happiest.
Or maybe this is the point where they will add the almost useless but so sought after attribute tokens :D :D
Ok, let me try and understand/compare your example. My calculation is that the linear progression reward is 0.5% of turnover for group 1, or 25 peds for 5000 peds turnover.
Linearly, to get 2750 ped tt bonus skill group 1 I'd expect a turnover of 550k peds and a tt loss of maybe hopefully 'only' 27.5k peds going towards MA. If you get that in 20 days, you are cycling 27kpeds a day, which is pretty hard core, although not up with afk-ing EP4 ...

I would assume MA can still easily afford that level of extra skills tt payout if they wish. They don't need to successively lower it more and more on an obviously pretty high turnover.

If you are already down to an average of below a quarter of that bonus for repeatables, and even less for each new repeat you do, then that bonus really has become minute for you by now. Like I said, for me it's a massive disincentive to attempt to get into repeatable territory on a mob I like, as I'd then feel 'depressed' by the worsening factors. If MA were to come out and say that the bonus from now on will be a straight half of the progression up to the renewables point, then I might massively increase my cycling and be a super-cycler too. As things stand, I'm not.
 

Evey

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Ok, let me try and understand/compare your example. My calculation is that the linear progression reward is 0.5% of turnover for group 1, or 25 peds for 5000 peds turnover.
Linearly, to get 2750 ped tt bonus skill group 1 I'd expect a turnover of 550k peds and a tt loss of maybe hopefully 'only' 27.5k peds going towards MA. If you get that in 20 days, you are cycling 27kpeds a day, which is pretty hard core, although not up with afk-ing EP4 ...

I would assume MA can still easily afford that level of extra skills tt payout if they wish. They don't need to successively lower it more and more on an obviously pretty high turnover.

If you are already down to an average of below a quarter of that bonus for repeatables, and even less for each new repeat you do, then that bonus really has become minute for you by now. Like I said, for me it's a massive disincentive to attempt to get into repeatable territory on a mob I like, as I'd then feel 'depressed' by the worsening factors. If MA were to come out and say that the bonus from now on will be a straight half of the progression up to the renewables point, then I might massively increase my cycling and be a super-cycler too. As things stand, I'm not.
I understand your point. From how they phrased this announcement it would look like it's a work in progress and some goodies might come along the way...
I did 830k turnover for those 20 days and got me to repeatable 32. I don't do so hardcore for repeatables tho, those were just a bonus. If MA would reward all repeatable on same cost, I would ahve done over 140 repeatables. Yes please, but I don't think it's realistic tbh...
I previously said that I hunted 2 years a mob with no mission, caperon and it wasn't depressing at all because it was skilling with a profit indefinately. Untill loot 2.0 :D
 

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I haven't read this forum in a long time, thought all important news are posted in the Client Loader. So I learned about this yesterday.
Client loader also had this news when it was posted on pcf.
 

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Quite funny that we discussed this in last weekend, that when we closing in to the end of missions with structure
like Iron missions on Caly and its time for PPs to increase activity, MA will drop some news about new features
that makes Caly more attractive again. Some things are so predictable that they have an odds of 1:1. :p
Imo, this is good news in general though, attributes is probably one of the biggest reason to grind for a lot of
players. :)
Lets also hope that we'll see some more features and P.O.I related to the backstory of Calypso this time. ;)
 
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