Info: Return Of The Mining Log - Mining on a budget
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sakuraqueen
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hmmm...very very confusing...
can you pm me any practical instructions or example that can be worked out....
can you pm me any practical instructions or example that can be worked out....
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Update, tested the array. Yip exactly where it should be.
0, 6, 18, 36 and 60 were class 2 deposits all ore
Points are back
does this mean you could create a run with 100% hitrate by chosing the right spots then? and if so, can you achieve >100% tt return that way (class 2 deposit with rookie finder looks quite well tbh)?
and about that '1 hour after fail run it works again': could you note during which hours it works and when not and see if there is a rhythm. maybe other points work durin times the 6, 18 etc dont.
keep it up, gl!
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I think that the name of the game(Entropia as in Entropy?) tells the whole point: you simply cant win against the system without external help(markup, other players), no matter what you do. You can get a sudden "heatwave" in the form of a hof, or some good runs for a while, but that heat has to go sooner or later anyway and it will most likely drag into a loss. So the best skill you can have here is indeed, as mentioned before, the skill of trading .
There might be some flaws in the code that could be exploited to some degree, but i seriously doubt it would be as obvious as skillgains and static formulas(think they'd really make it that easy?).
There might be some flaws in the code that could be exploited to some degree, but i seriously doubt it would be as obvious as skillgains and static formulas(think they'd really make it that easy?).
R4tt3xx
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After reading what Windswept has to say on the forums and a bit of thought, I have come up with something that will work 100%.. It is extremely generic that even the formula is unknown.
Let me show you....
We have a function "f" with variables x,y,z (Long coord,lat coord, depth),type (ore / entmatter), time (?????) which must equal to a 1 for a positive result.
f(x,y,z,type,time)=1 Thats it, there is a nice simple math function that will work 100% of the time when the correct variables are given.
Man R4t you are a
it cant work as we do not know what the variables are..... Not true, I know all the variables except for ONE which is the almighty time or cycle.
Lets look at the cycles of time
60 seconds = 1 minute
60 minutes = 1 hour
24 hours = 1 day
+-30 days = 1 week
etc... etc... etc
One or more of those cycles must make our functions result true, so instead of running around playing with x,y,x,type,time all at once, I just need to play with time as others are known and I want to keep them constant
Pretty easy I would say..... The cycle / timer would be the hardest nut to crack. So I am rationing myself to one bomb / probe a max cycle length (weather it be hour, day, month, year etc that is still to be determined) until I can predict the cycle of the cell (x,y,z combination) accurately.
Imagine what I could do if I could say that coordinate set x,y,z appears every day / week / month etc. That would give me a 100% hit rate on that coord at that time.... Please note yes that is a 100% hit rate !!!
My gut is telling me that it will only be active for a quarter of a cycle (25% of the time). Speaking of 25%
f(x,y,z,type,time) on average approximates to .25.
Lets say that every cell contains a deposit but at varying depths, it should take me 4 charges to determine at which depth the deposit is. Again 25% hitrate.
We could go more into this idea of 25% What we have is a cube f(x,y,z,type,time)*4=1 consisting of 64 possible coordinates 4^3
Let me show you....
We have a function "f" with variables x,y,z (Long coord,lat coord, depth),type (ore / entmatter), time (?????) which must equal to a 1 for a positive result.
f(x,y,z,type,time)=1 Thats it, there is a nice simple math function that will work 100% of the time when the correct variables are given.
Man R4t you are a
it cant work as we do not know what the variables are..... Not true, I know all the variables except for ONE which is the almighty time or cycle.Lets look at the cycles of time
60 seconds = 1 minute
60 minutes = 1 hour
24 hours = 1 day
+-30 days = 1 week
etc... etc... etc
One or more of those cycles must make our functions result true, so instead of running around playing with x,y,x,type,time all at once, I just need to play with time as others are known and I want to keep them constant
Pretty easy I would say..... The cycle / timer would be the hardest nut to crack. So I am rationing myself to one bomb / probe a max cycle length (weather it be hour, day, month, year etc that is still to be determined) until I can predict the cycle of the cell (x,y,z combination) accurately.
Imagine what I could do if I could say that coordinate set x,y,z appears every day / week / month etc. That would give me a 100% hit rate on that coord at that time.... Please note yes that is a 100% hit rate !!!
My gut is telling me that it will only be active for a quarter of a cycle (25% of the time). Speaking of 25%
f(x,y,z,type,time) on average approximates to .25.
Lets say that every cell contains a deposit but at varying depths, it should take me 4 charges to determine at which depth the deposit is. Again 25% hitrate.
We could go more into this idea of 25% What we have is a cube f(x,y,z,type,time)*4=1 consisting of 64 possible coordinates 4^3
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R4tt3xx
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Ok update, for those of you that are interested in shadow mining. I have just run a couple of tests, amazing results.
Every squared km is the same as the next squared km, the coordinate sets may not be the same, but the general area is the same ..... This is incredible, I can map one mining area and instantly map all others.
I would have thought that MA had destroyed this, but NOOOOOOO, it's easier just to generate one area's worth of resources and replicate them to other km^2 cells.
Do yourselves a favor and map out one massive circle that touches the edges of the cell and mine the edges of that cell..... I picked up a lovely pattern, but it needs to be refined a bit more...
Every squared km is the same as the next squared km, the coordinate sets may not be the same, but the general area is the same ..... This is incredible, I can map one mining area and instantly map all others.
I would have thought that MA had destroyed this, but NOOOOOOO, it's easier just to generate one area's worth of resources and replicate them to other km^2 cells.
Do yourselves a favor and map out one massive circle that touches the edges of the cell and mine the edges of that cell..... I picked up a lovely pattern, but it needs to be refined a bit more...
R4tt3xx
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I was right there is a lot more, thanks Sakura for assisting me last night, it was a blast....
Here is something that is going to absolutely shock most carpetbombers.... I want to quickly post about grids. I have done this before and will do it again, carpet bombing is just wrong on so many levels. A carpet bomber blasts every 2x radius, are there deposits EVERY 2x radius, HELL NO !!!! I can show you why....
Your grid simply put is too bloody small, the point that you are mining in will most likely have the same result as the next point as the points are the same. It's the same location within the grid that you have set for yourself.
I have a grid of 108m, if I drop anywhere within that 108m and move 108m, I will be back at the same place that I started at in terms of that grid. One can carpetbomb and find points in another grid, but if he/she keeps mining in the 108m grid, you will not see what is truely out there.
This happened last night, and I have a witness to what happened. It was a very rocky start, having come from Hook's Alley and having major success with a 3x grid, I mean we are talking in the region of 80% hitrate. I wanted to check other areas so I ported to .... hell I cant spell the name, anyways. Bumped into Sakura and started to explain how I saw it working, the 162 grid was a FAILURE, absolute disaster I could not get it started.
I decided then on a whim to increase the size of the grid by 1 so 4*radius which made it 216, started immediately having hits, had one specific area, now this could be a hotspot, it may not have been but I had about 7 deposits in the space of 108m.... That got me thinking, this area is the location where different grid sizes are converging and forming a cluster. It made sense and could in theory generate veins.
Comments / thoughts, I will place a proper post down on this subject in the coming weeks when I have screenshots to back up and refine what I have mentioned here.
Here is something that is going to absolutely shock most carpetbombers.... I want to quickly post about grids. I have done this before and will do it again, carpet bombing is just wrong on so many levels. A carpet bomber blasts every 2x radius, are there deposits EVERY 2x radius, HELL NO !!!! I can show you why....
Your grid simply put is too bloody small, the point that you are mining in will most likely have the same result as the next point as the points are the same. It's the same location within the grid that you have set for yourself.
I have a grid of 108m, if I drop anywhere within that 108m and move 108m, I will be back at the same place that I started at in terms of that grid. One can carpetbomb and find points in another grid, but if he/she keeps mining in the 108m grid, you will not see what is truely out there.
This happened last night, and I have a witness to what happened. It was a very rocky start, having come from Hook's Alley and having major success with a 3x grid, I mean we are talking in the region of 80% hitrate. I wanted to check other areas so I ported to .... hell I cant spell the name, anyways. Bumped into Sakura and started to explain how I saw it working, the 162 grid was a FAILURE, absolute disaster I could not get it started.
I decided then on a whim to increase the size of the grid by 1 so 4*radius which made it 216, started immediately having hits, had one specific area, now this could be a hotspot, it may not have been but I had about 7 deposits in the space of 108m.... That got me thinking, this area is the location where different grid sizes are converging and forming a cluster. It made sense and could in theory generate veins.
Comments / thoughts, I will place a proper post down on this subject in the coming weeks when I have screenshots to back up and refine what I have mentioned here.
R4tt3xx
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Something just hit me like a ton of bricks this is an MMORPG. A massively multiplayer ROLEPLAYING game... ROLEPLAYING.... Our stats and levels should have a direct impact on what we should be doing. Has any of us tried to map our character's stats in order to improve loot ?
How about this for a really screwed up idea, in order to get skills we have to fail, in other words, if the task is too difficult for us, it takes more time, money and effort to accomplish something. We are trading one resource for another at a predetermined exchange rate, it's the basics of business, my character is my business.
It is skill based, time we learn to use that fact. How does a skill based mmo work ?
How about this for a really screwed up idea, in order to get skills we have to fail, in other words, if the task is too difficult for us, it takes more time, money and effort to accomplish something. We are trading one resource for another at a predetermined exchange rate, it's the basics of business, my character is my business.
It is skill based, time we learn to use that fact. How does a skill based mmo work ?
R4tt3xx
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Update, I don't know why my previous array had an error with it's references but it has been repaired. Updated link is here. Please download the file as in it's current state it can only be viewed in order to maintain it's cohesiveness.
Couple changes, I am using pure hex numbers in the array, if the server uses hex, then I must adapt, the sheet also now creates a centre point in the area that you select.
I have also removed the timer, the current minute can be entered and used as a quick way to check for the spiral's existence.
Testing the sheet
The way this works is simple, drop a bomb / probe, enter your current minute into current minute. Make a note of the bomb / probe attempt's coordinates. Read off the Distance To Hit, move that distance and drop, if you do get a hit, congrats the sheet is partially calibrated.
Enter the time once again, and move the the distance mentioned in distance to hit, this time from the coordinates of the 1st probe / bomb, ie the one that missed when the whole procedure was started, if distance is 0, wait a couple of minutes and restart the sheet's testing. What you should find is that each time well simply put, you don't miss either entmatter of ore hits.
I can see that I may have to add something else to the sheet, simply put the ability to flip / mirror the x and y axes. But lets see how this sheet work. I tested it this morning, it did not miss, except when the distance to site was 0.
Couple changes, I am using pure hex numbers in the array, if the server uses hex, then I must adapt, the sheet also now creates a centre point in the area that you select.
I have also removed the timer, the current minute can be entered and used as a quick way to check for the spiral's existence.
Testing the sheet
The way this works is simple, drop a bomb / probe, enter your current minute into current minute. Make a note of the bomb / probe attempt's coordinates. Read off the Distance To Hit, move that distance and drop, if you do get a hit, congrats the sheet is partially calibrated.
Enter the time once again, and move the the distance mentioned in distance to hit, this time from the coordinates of the 1st probe / bomb, ie the one that missed when the whole procedure was started, if distance is 0, wait a couple of minutes and restart the sheet's testing. What you should find is that each time well simply put, you don't miss either entmatter of ore hits.
I can see that I may have to add something else to the sheet, simply put the ability to flip / mirror the x and y axes. But lets see how this sheet work. I tested it this morning, it did not miss, except when the distance to site was 0.
R4tt3xx
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Update, I don't know why my previous array had an error with it's references but it has been repaired. Updated link is here. Please download the file as in it's current state it can only be viewed in order to maintain it's cohesiveness.
Couple changes, I am using pure hex numbers in the array, if the server uses hex, then I must adapt, the sheet also now creates a centre point in the area that you select.
I have also removed the timer, the current minute can be entered and used as a quick way to check for the spiral's existence.
Testing the sheet
The way this works is simple, drop a bomb / probe, enter your current minute into current minute. Make a note of the bomb / probe attempt's coordinates. Read off the Distance To Hit, move that distance and drop, if you do get a hit, congrats the sheet is partially calibrated.
Enter the time once again, and move the the distance mentioned in distance to hit, this time from the coordinates of the 1st probe / bomb, ie the one that missed when the whole procedure was started, if distance is 0, wait a couple of minutes and restart the sheet's testing. What you should find is that each time well simply put, you don't miss either entmatter of ore hits.
I can see that I may have to add something else to the sheet, simply put the ability to flip / mirror the x and y axes. But lets see how this sheet work. I tested it this morning, it did not miss, except when the distance to site was 0.
If you want to see a demo of this idea, pm me. I normally am online from about 5pm (CET / MA Time)
Couple changes, I am using pure hex numbers in the array, if the server uses hex, then I must adapt, the sheet also now creates a centre point in the area that you select.
I have also removed the timer, the current minute can be entered and used as a quick way to check for the spiral's existence.
Testing the sheet
The way this works is simple, drop a bomb / probe, enter your current minute into current minute. Make a note of the bomb / probe attempt's coordinates. Read off the Distance To Hit, move that distance and drop, if you do get a hit, congrats the sheet is partially calibrated.
Enter the time once again, and move the the distance mentioned in distance to hit, this time from the coordinates of the 1st probe / bomb, ie the one that missed when the whole procedure was started, if distance is 0, wait a couple of minutes and restart the sheet's testing. What you should find is that each time well simply put, you don't miss either entmatter of ore hits.
I can see that I may have to add something else to the sheet, simply put the ability to flip / mirror the x and y axes. But lets see how this sheet work. I tested it this morning, it did not miss, except when the distance to site was 0.
If you want to see a demo of this idea, pm me. I normally am online from about 5pm (CET / MA Time)
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R4tt3xx
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I can see that this is absolutely pointless. It is absolutely pointless trying to relay information to people who are not even open to the possibility of something like this existing. After 7 years of this, what can I conclude, people are idiots. They do not see what is right in front of them. I am plodding on regardless, this time trying to unwrap the skill system.
YES, you read right, SKILLS as everything is based on it. Including returns, mining locations, the whole shabang.
If you are interested in trying to see things from my point of view, google Prime Number Distribution, I think that this whole game runs on it or on number systems in general, and the arrangement of such numbers.
Let me end with a bit of a timeline. EU beta gets released, mining gets monopolised by smc reason - mining veins.... straight lines.... (Ulam's spiral, prime number distribution). Mindark "fixes" the glitch, I break it (Sacks spiral), I post details of the Sacks spiral on forum, Sacks goes away. Reason is the following.
Original equation of Sacks... x=cos(2*pi()*sqrt(header))*sqrt(header)*radius. Pretty simple equation.
Mindark's 1st version .... x=cos(2*pi()*(sqrt(header)+(current header/total headers))*sqrt(header)*radius, where current header = current second / minute in the cycle and header = the location in the spiral that you want to scan.
Very simple this one too, it simply rotates the spiral, and very exploitable.
My cracked version x=cos(2*pi()*(sqrt(header)+(header/total headers))*sqrt(header)*radius. Bye bye rotation, as long as I have the total headers, I could call on a sacks spiral that always hit.
There are SOOOO many variations to these basic formulae that I stopped looking for them. Total headers is the problem, how long is the cycle ?
The answer hit me like a ton of bricks, skill points. Those little numbers that we take for granted are extremely powerful especially if you accept them for what they are. Frequency. If you are looking for a way to beat the system, its sitting in the skill points.
Crack it now, and it will change later as your SKILL POINTS change... Simple end of story and post..
OH and Mindark this is a message to you, please change mining again. This is not going to cut it.
YES, you read right, SKILLS as everything is based on it. Including returns, mining locations, the whole shabang.
If you are interested in trying to see things from my point of view, google Prime Number Distribution, I think that this whole game runs on it or on number systems in general, and the arrangement of such numbers.
Let me end with a bit of a timeline. EU beta gets released, mining gets monopolised by smc reason - mining veins.... straight lines.... (Ulam's spiral, prime number distribution). Mindark "fixes" the glitch, I break it (Sacks spiral), I post details of the Sacks spiral on forum, Sacks goes away. Reason is the following.
Original equation of Sacks... x=cos(2*pi()*sqrt(header))*sqrt(header)*radius. Pretty simple equation.
Mindark's 1st version .... x=cos(2*pi()*(sqrt(header)+(current header/total headers))*sqrt(header)*radius, where current header = current second / minute in the cycle and header = the location in the spiral that you want to scan.
Very simple this one too, it simply rotates the spiral, and very exploitable.
My cracked version x=cos(2*pi()*(sqrt(header)+(header/total headers))*sqrt(header)*radius. Bye bye rotation, as long as I have the total headers, I could call on a sacks spiral that always hit.
There are SOOOO many variations to these basic formulae that I stopped looking for them. Total headers is the problem, how long is the cycle ?
The answer hit me like a ton of bricks, skill points. Those little numbers that we take for granted are extremely powerful especially if you accept them for what they are. Frequency. If you are looking for a way to beat the system, its sitting in the skill points.
Crack it now, and it will change later as your SKILL POINTS change... Simple end of story and post..
OH and Mindark this is a message to you, please change mining again. This is not going to cut it.
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R4tt3xx
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Quick update for those that are interested and understand what I am saying, I am suspecting that the amount of "turns" in the link in the above post is equal to this .... Mining Tool Depth/2/radius. Take a look at your array once it is constructed and compare it tool for tool. Very interesting...
If you do understand then also you can assume that loot is not random as it will multiply as the amount of turns increase.
Cycle = tool frequency, (well no dir)
Ohhh here is a thought take your average depth * phi to get the max, then apply the calcs above.
Before I forget the amount of turns changes as time goes on so you will need to adjust. I just took 1000/8 and used each one until I got the correct amount of turns, if you understand this of course.
If you do understand then also you can assume that loot is not random as it will multiply as the amount of turns increase.
Cycle = tool frequency, (well no dir
)Ohhh here is a thought take your average depth * phi to get the max, then apply the calcs above.
Before I forget the amount of turns changes as time goes on so you will need to adjust. I just took 1000/8 and used each one until I got the correct amount of turns, if you understand this of course.
R4tt3xx
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Alternate idea for the start location and timer, instead of being action driven. It could simply be tick driven, starting when and where you logon. If this is correct, simply waiting 7.5 seconds after logging in should yield a hit. I shudder at the possibilities of this timer.
dr3w
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It's impossible to check. Where is the mark that i "logged in"? When i see the world? Or when i hear mobs attacking me, and i see the world maybe after 10 seconds of that sound? Connection speed, lags, performance of PC - 7.5 seconds?
Sometimes, i see my friends say "Hi" to soc member before he logged in _for me_.
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Because you can't drop bomb/probe right under your feet.
R4tt3xx
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Session length. If used this could even be classified as an exploit. Log onto the game, drop, get claim, move somewhere else, log out, wait, login, drop, bacon, rinse, repeat.
Avatar's facing also may play a part as that could change where the sites will appear. Also if it only lasts for one minute. Then restarts on where you are standing, that would be a very sneaky system
)
(x coord at beginning of minute)+cos(2*pi()*int(second/sqrt(60))*int(second/sqrt(60))*radius
(y coord at beginning of minute)+sin(2*pi()*int(second/sqrt(60)))*int(second/sqrt(60))*radius
Something like that, I will check tonight a bit, play around with this possible exploit
Look you can only drop a bomb 8 times per minute, so it would be every 7.5 or 8 seconds that it changes. If you wanted a lovely average it would be 7.7459666924148337703585307995648 or sqrt(60)
I don't think that the above formula is correct, its just an example of how it could be. I am at work now and cannot test this.
Think stopwatch
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dr3w
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Well, i'll check this for sure, when will come home.
R4tt3xx
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System checked, and confirmed. Cycle length is about 15 minutes in session length. Resets when you tp, move over a border, revive and login. Basically whenever you move from one cell to another. It may take more than 8 seconds to trigger and you cannot use the same coord set more than once. Timing needs to be researched.
R4tt3xx
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Amazing system Mindark, you have managed to sort skills into layers (like any normal mmo), but you have taken it one step further by placing those layers onto the ground and using a timer that I would assume stretches to the max skill number, change the loot as a % of the timer.
If this is correct, skills matter, not random and it's all predetermined.
If this is correct, skills matter, not random and it's all predetermined.