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severe worries about eu future

EU has more people than it had last year I can tell :D
If every item like that I'd be worried.
While those items go down others are going up.

Take for example: 2-4 hardcore korss hunters if they outskilled the korss and upgraded that could make a drop even.

Iron and belkar dunno I don't see crafting as popular lately. But thatll change after this vu cause new items can be found and people will have fun crafting again.

You can't measure activity due to market trends and they change more often than :yay: this little smiley bounces up and down.

Just go outside and look at all the people playing compared to a year ago :D Its alot more.
 
Ogulak'Da'Dragon said:
EU has more people than it had last year I can tell :D
If every item like that I'd be worried.
While those items go down others are going up.

Take for example: 2-4 hardcore korss hunters if they outskilled the korss and upgraded that could make a drop even.

Iron and belkar dunno I don't see crafting as popular lately. But thatll change after this vu cause new items can be found and people will have fun crafting again.

You can't measure activity due to market trends and they change more often than :yay: this little smiley bounces up and down.

Just go outside and look at all the people playing compared to a year ago :D Its alot more.
Click to expand...


Agweeed :) (agreed)
 
My two cents.

I'm going to do something i don't usually do and post without reading the whole thread...but here's my two cents on the subject.

I think a lot of the prices are down because there are new and different things in the game now that people are buying instead of those things...that if you look at the overall view of everythng and not just the old items you would see that there is as much money in EU now as there was before, it's just getting spread out differently.

Sure items are going down in price because as things evolve and new items are intruduced the older things go out of "fashion" and the new stuff takes it's place.

I'm not worried...i think it all levels out if you look farther into it...of course i'm no economic major or anything.
 
Isn't it because a lot more is sold by shops? I spend nearly 4k peds a week just buying amps in shops?
 
lol its not the prices, its the amount,
and the trend isnt going up and down, it went up for years in a row, steady, now its goign down, also steady
 
korss one is easy to explain, lot of other guns to get instead of korss,, see p5a.. right.
anyway, everything has it's high's and low's, i wouldn't worry too much about it.
 
I think there are a lot of people who have accepted the path of Opalo hunter wearing Shogun armor.
 
I believe that although several factors contribute to the percieved decline in volume at auction, the main reasons have already been identified. It should be obvious to anyone who has been participating in this universe for any length of time that three trends have been converging.

First, the likelihood that a particular item will drop has slowly decreased, that is to say, you may need to kill twice as many of critter X on average before looting item Y than you did last year. Part of this is due to an increase in the variety of items available, part due to an overall decrease in item drops when compared to the past. Less of an item dropping = less available to be sold.

Secondly, it takes a larger investment in equipment to kill larger critter than it did in the past. Part of this is caused by equipment changes such as the reconfiguration of amps. Part is caused by critter modifications, such as faster regen rates. Additionally, as stated above, less items dropping means less people have access to higher level equipment due to increased rarity. Less big game hunters means less big game drops = less available to be sold.

Lastly, as viable alternatives become available (such as dropped or crafted (L) equipment) the number of purchases tend to become spread out among them. This will of course mean a lower number of sales for older items as newer items increase to an equillibrium point.

It is easy to mis-interpret data. It is very difficult to identify specific underlying trends among the noise. That is why average citizens make the worst voters: They are too easily misled by 'facts'. In the case of the issue at hand, I would suggest the trends are not only expected, but healthy as well and a sign that the value of our investments are growing with each day that passes.
 
KEY RATIOS ENTROPIA UNIVERSE (2007 2006 2005 2004 2003)
Newly registered customer accounts 125.381 145.698 133.265 76.495 76.476
Relative growth of new customers -14% 9% 74% 0%
Gross funds provided in kPED 145.961 110.696 47.321 29.072 6.492
Requested withdrawals in kPED 32.422 20.174 4.827 1.042 906
Net funds deposited in kPED 113.539 90.522 42.494 28.030 5.586
Relative growth in deposits 25% 113% 52% 402%


These are the official figures from MindArk's Annual report for investor relations - thinking a bit about basic business knowledge and flows this is where your explanation is.

A drop of 14% in numbers from 2006 to 2007 - which basically means a net drop that eats the complete growth in numbers up from 2006. Less people - less stuff mined, less stuff used etc etc etc

Read additional lines about withdrawels as well - a drop of 14% users compared to 2006 but 50% more money withdrawn then in 2006 - all that adds up to normal market figures as you see them in the decade view of ores etc
 
thnx for these numbrs, so maybe i aint completely crazy aftherall!!
 
Lets say that thoose numbers are accurat and less and less people are playing. What happens if CE2 and the CO with china ends with a big fiasco? Why will people start to play EU now after it have been around for over 5 years, why would they flock to EU couse of CE2.

If people dosent like EU as it is know, a new graphicengine aint gonna change that!
 
Dahlifyr said:
Lets say that thoose numbers are accurat and less and less people are playing. What happens if CE2 and the CO with china ends with a big fiasco? Why will people start to play EU now after it have been around for over 5 years, why would they flock to EU couse of CE2.

If people dosent like EU as it is know, a new graphicengine aint gonna change that!
Click to expand...

Unless you try to imply that MA delivers false figures in an official report those figures are accurat - check the MA website, go investor relations and call up the annual reports. Those are the base for any outside investor etc. :)

And read those figures correctly please - there has been a trend in general that pointed upwards but with a big chunk backwards as mentioned from 2006 to 2007 which explains partly the trends CBB sees in th decade lines. Since there is no distinguished seperation between accounts - as they are free and only require a email - those trends are not reliable in themselves as it doesnt account persons related to the accounts meaning that even an increase in numbers of new accounts might mean trading accounts etc of already playing players.
 
Rival said:
I believe that although several factors contribute to the percieved decline in volume at auction, the main reasons have already been identified. It should be obvious to anyone who has been participating in this universe for any length of time that three trends have been converging.

First, the likelihood that a particular item will drop has slowly decreased, that is to say, you may need to kill twice as many of critter X on average before looting item Y than you did last year. Part of this is due to an increase in the variety of items available, part due to an overall decrease in item drops when compared to the past. Less of an item dropping = less available to be sold.

Secondly, it takes a larger investment in equipment to kill larger critter than it did in the past. Part of this is caused by equipment changes such as the reconfiguration of amps. Part is caused by critter modifications, such as faster regen rates. Additionally, as stated above, less items dropping means less people have access to higher level equipment due to increased rarity. Less big game hunters means less big game drops = less available to be sold.

Lastly, as viable alternatives become available (such as dropped or crafted (L) equipment) the number of purchases tend to become spread out among them. This will of course mean a lower number of sales for older items as newer items increase to an equillibrium point.

It is easy to mis-interpret data. It is very difficult to identify specific underlying trends among the noise. That is why average citizens make the worst voters: They are too easily misled by 'facts'. In the case of the issue at hand, I would suggest the trends are not only expected, but healthy as well and a sign that the value of our investments are growing with each day that passes.
Click to expand...


True, because more crafted items also the sells of Ore and Ematters go down in volume, I allways knew this profiting crafters dont need ores or ematters they craft the L items from thin air.

If it looks like dung, smells like dung and tast like dung it is certainly a candy or did I not understand you right?

PS: or do you think MA is lying in their "Annual report for investor relations"?
If so they would certainly not diminish the figures but increase it as more players means more incentive to invest. Or is this also wrong and lesser player means more incentive to invest in it? Sure deposited amount was going still up but maybe this was also partly to contribute to the new Bank's and LA's etc. which where sold in that year...
 
Ime said:
For korss, there are less dropping from feff than it used to be, so i'm not surprised the trend is going down.

For aurli bones, aurli are 3* harder to kill than it used to be, so less aurli are killed/day, so again i'm not surprised there are less bones in auction.

And all your assumptions are base on auction records. I think more people don't use auction and do pvp trades. (eg: ore buyers who buy from miners and sell directly to crafter, etc).
Click to expand...

Don't look at the amount of Items sold look at the price the Items sell for. The Aurli are 3 times harder to kill and one of the items they loot are virtually worthless now as compared to 2 years ago.
Next Feffoids are not the Only mob that drop the Koross 400 I used to loot 3 or 4 guns a week from them then the Loots dried up so I hunted a different mob and found that Bristle Hogs drop them too. As for the price drop on the 400 I bet it has something to due with the Breer 5 having close to the same stats and being cheaper so if you want to save ped you buy the cheaper gun. Not to mention that its almost Imposable to kill and Atrox with a 400 now so I am sure not as many people use them.
As for the Game Dying I worry about this. Ask yourself if You were MA and making so much money from the game why would you sell part of the game off in stock form? It seems to me If MA sells 49% of the stock off MA still controls what will happen in the game but they reduce their overall debt liability if everyone decides to sell out.
Lets Face it Ma has not learned you can Sheer a Sheep Over and Over but only Slaughter it once. MA does not want non-Depositors they cost MA money by causing lag in the game thus forcing MA to add more servers taking profits out of their pocket.
 
As has been pointed out by myself and another poster who took the time to look at MA's financials, MA has a growth strategy and they are fully aware that accounts are declining.

One of the most important and often neglected aspects of running a successful business is managing growth. In fact, one of the main reasons that businesses fail is that the grow too quickly without the proper infrastructure in place.

If you have infrastructure in place that is designed to handle 1,000 users, you can't just linearly add whatever to handle 1,100 users. Often you have to step up your core infrastructure an order of magnitude to handle 10,000 users and the needed technology is priced/supported accordingly.

MA states in their annual report IIRC (and I am not completely out to lunch) that their new infrastructure is designed to handle 7 million simultaneous logins. Combined with the new engine, that's quite an ambitious goal.

A few things to keep in mind.

1. PE started.
2. PE grows....lots of issues like rubberbanding and extended server down times.
3. MA goes bk.
4. New financing and growth
5. MA becomes profitable
6. MA plans for further future growth (partnerships, China, new engine) at the expense of immediate increase and consistent growth (marketing).

Obviously it's too early to tell if the new initiative will be successful. MA has thrown a few bones to the existing users in the meantime to keep people playing but the major focus (from what I can see from reading the annual report) is to keep the account atrophy at a minimum while implementing infrastructure and other capabilities to allow MA to grow very nicely over the next few years.
 
Don't worry everyone, it's just the graph that sucks. It is a trend graph set to a certain period, maybe three months. It will not show the correct value until the period is completed.

Here are screenshots taken today, four days after the ones in the first post. With four more days of data into the period, the trend graph becomes less negative.

Belkar 4 days ago:
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Belkar today:




Foul bones 4 days ago:
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Foul bones today:


I hope I'm making sense. :)
 
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Darkaner said:
Don't worry everyone, it's just the graph that sucks. It is a trend graph set to a certain period, maybe three months. It will not show the correct value until the period is completed.

Here are screenshots taken today, four days after the ones in the first post. With four more days of data into the period, the trend graph becomes less negative.

(...screenshots...)

I hope I'm making sense. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for confirming my theory :D
Well, I thought it was a years period, but a few months makes sense too...
 
Dwissa said:
KEY RATIOS ENTROPIA UNIVERSE (2007 2006 2005 2004 2003)
Newly registered customer accounts 125.381 145.698 133.265 76.495 76.476
Relative growth of new customers -14% 9% 74% 0%
Gross funds provided in kPED 145.961 110.696 47.321 29.072 6.492
Requested withdrawals in kPED 32.422 20.174 4.827 1.042 906
Net funds deposited in kPED 113.539 90.522 42.494 28.030 5.586
Relative growth in deposits 25% 113% 52% 402%


These are the official figures from MindArk's Annual report for investor relations - thinking a bit about basic business knowledge and flows this is where your explanation is.

A drop of 14% in numbers from 2006 to 2007 - which basically means a net drop that eats the complete growth in numbers up from 2006. Less people - less stuff mined, less stuff used etc etc etc

Read additional lines about withdrawels as well - a drop of 14% users compared to 2006 but 50% more money withdrawn then in 2006 - all that adds up to normal market figures as you see them in the decade view of ores etc
Click to expand...

Hmm, I don't see it. The figures appear to say there were 14% less new users in 2007 compared to 2006. Many of the old users are still around too. So there's no evidence to say there's less people actually in EU from the figures you've quoted as far as I can see, it just shows growth has tailed off a little.

As to the resources thing, I looked a bunch of ores and enmatters I was selling today and they all show a trend of steady growth.

Its only a concern if all resources suddenly started dropping in volume, I don't see evidence of that.
 
I dont know the trend in auction ...
But i know it perfectly for my shop.
I had a big slow down at vu 9.0 , then after it became better , then came summer and so a slow down ... and now thats 2 week thatmy business works again...

As for comparaison in time well ... for me its constant progress....
In matter of volume , i sell more item now , than last years , and thats for sure...
I just gain same or less in the end , because new system about clothe and full TT and all that made me reduce my margin a lot , or nullyfy it...

As for player.... i think i have never see so much green dot all around calypso than the last 2 or 3 week ...
And for sure , this year had more player than last....

I dont think there is more subscrition .. many was cheated in past , and many player was leaving...
Now , not much second acount or third acount , and player tend to stay more...Or a bigger part of new player stay...
I guess the last big bug fixing help...
Yes there is still load of bug ... but in general , there is less bug and problem ...i dont have to relog all 5 min ....

I dont know what all your graph say and data and all that ....
But i am not worry for the next future...

Also many was probably waiting for cry engine to come in summer , so maybe was eco for upgrade comp ... now we know we have to wait for 2009 for it... this might might som depot to come in the next months :)
 
I think Etopia nailed the reason for the decline in the rate of increase for new subscriptions for 2007. The were no longer any real advantages to creating bogus second or third accounts. Removing the sweat cap was probably the single largest factor in that decrease.
 
Entropia today, have no future its runned by a few selected ppl that MA chosen. Its not just me so come on then and minus rep me for this, many ppl with me belive it is like this. Big changes have to be made to Entropia universe if its going to survive and grow as much as some ppl think it will. Its way overrated as it is today, the ads that should go around markeeting entropia should be: "Got a BIG stash of Cash? - Join Entropia today with the rest of few ppl that runs it".

MA should start to listen abit to what many ppl thinks, its way to expensive today. (and no thanks, no need to write, Quit then)
Everyone knows that no one forces anyone to be in here, although we are all here because we like the idea of entropia and its needs to adapt and evolve more to have a bigger playerbase to be able to really expand and be like the ads in-game, "There is so much yet to come".

We all like the game and of course you cant always do everything you want but doing "by the book" hunting & mining and still loose a shitload of money is not Dynamic, thats stupid... :rolleyes:
 
weird thing happened,
the grpahs i posted changed alot. they all point up again, even the period a long time ago. beats me?
ah well lol, the ore amp 103 i didnt post , it also has that trend.

also u see a big decline in mid level item prices, the ones that are most common in eu. Maddox iv went from 1500 - 1100 last weeks, emt2600 dropping (ok its crafted again) and vigi parts and bear also on the fall.

intresting, i ll keep track
 
CBB said:
weird thing happened,
the grpahs i posted changed alot. they all point up again, even the period a long time ago. beats me?
Click to expand...

Read the post by Darkaner, it explains it :)
Also my post has a hint of why... :p

The problem is all in the presentation of the graph.
 
u keep thinkign the graphs got fixed, they changed lol even old data
 
CBB said:
u keep thinkign the graphs got fixed, they changed lol even old data
Click to expand...

No I don't think they "got fixed", I think the way they are constructed make the last reporting period appear too low before its finished...

You see other changes then the ones shown in Darkaners post?
Can't log in here, so can't check how they look now.
Post some screenshots.
 
lol i gave up, gettign too much heat on a mere post of facts and graphs.
u will see a continues drop in price of mid level items the next months,

meaning, vigi, maddox iv, emt 2600, grem gloves, unlimited amps for guns like the 101 - 103, ectra, basically all the mid levl gear that went up the last years. a hyped market needs just a little push i think.
good if u wanna buy, sad if u bought

we ll see
 
Triton said:
Everyone knows that no one forces anyone to be in here, although we are all here because we like the idea of entropia and its needs to adapt and evolve more to have a bigger playerbase to be able to really expand and be like the ads in-game, "There is so much yet to come".

We all like the game and of course you cant always do everything you want but doing "by the book" hunting & mining and still loose a shitload of money is not Dynamic, thats stupid... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Along the same lines here. EU still has a lot of potential, sorry to see it go to waste thru pretty weird design decisions.

Maybe it's time to focus on player quantity instead "quality"? In other words, more satisfied small depositors/customers instead of few big ones before it's too late and playerbase is too small to support the game properly?

Interesting to see how inflated item prices are affected by the upcoming new gfx engine...are the big boys willing to bet their ingame assets on successful upgrade or not?

When you need many 100's of e per month to play an mmorpg "properly", imo it's way too expensive.

We shall see what happens.
 
CBB said:
lol i gave up, gettign too much heat on a mere post of facts and graphs.
Click to expand...

Ah comon...
I love to be proved wrong, that's the times you learn.

I have a _theory_ of why the graphs seem to look too low and why they seem to change.

If you have data that puncture my theory, at least be kind enough to be specific about where to find it :(
 
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