FYI: Stop Hunting with Air ships please.

[Az Bloodz]

NO COMPREHEND?

I said they should put on loader screen EXPLOIT LIST (bugs), NOT EXPLOITERS (people). Whatever MA calls an exploit, they should make it known so people KNOW WHAT NOT TO DO. If they choose to still do it, then fine, ban them.

My point was giving out a list of exploits you give a tutorial how to use them. It's like showing people the weaknesses and hence a way to exploit. MA can't monitor all avatars so most of them will be able to do this unpunished.

2nd point was that mobs aggroing VTOLS is causing other problems as mentioned in this thread. So what's your solution? You still haven't come up with one. Stop complaining and give some constructiv, helpful input.

 

[Huskie]

I still lack an answer about you exploiting with VTOL while mining... Dodging mobs..

And he probably won't give you one, because what he calls 'exploiting' is doing hit-&-run while hunting, not abusing the VTOL's loss of aggro feature, which is what the exploit per se actually is and something miners benefit from themselves while mining.

There's no point arguing with these people whom I bet all have used ranged weapons to hunt and always shot their weapon from it's maximum range capacity and walking backwards while the mob closes in to minimize armor and fap decay, which is just as much 'common sense' as doing hit-&-run tactics if it's within your power.

Hell, the whole point why Agility was always so useful and a good indicator of uberness was because it used to make your avatar run faster as it increased, allowing you to hit-&-run bigger and bigger mobs. And I have never seen somebody bitching about being able to outrun mobs in the past or calling it unfair/exploitish.

Why it is such a problem now to do the same with vehicles, which we must pay to obtain and maintain is truly beyond me... True, Agility cannot be bought and had to be earned back then, but since it got changed anyway to not increase running speed, along with all the changes in avatar/mob run speeds, that point is moot now.

 

[~CHOPPER~]

My point was giving out a list of exploits you give a tutorial how to use them.

That's a poor excuse to allow MA do absolutely nothing.

MA can't monitor all avatars so most of them will be able to do this unpunished.

Well there's plenty of twats lined up for monitoring others in game....Too bad people just can't mind their own business


The whiners are also greatly exaggerating about the effects of VTOL hunting...there is no effect on the economy at all.

 

[Strash]

There is a effect on the economy as it would say that you don't need to invest much into the game....

But why would mining with a flying ship make a difference? I am not hunting a mob. I am not argoing a mob on others.
I can mine with a Car but if i do that and any Greendots are around it will probably argo on them.
I am not taking advantage of the mob being 'trapped' i am just mining.
So how can you say mining with a vtol is a exploit?
what am i doing wrong that would consider it being one? I am still playing in the rules Get to a location drop bomb move on.
I am not Get to location Start shooting mob, Wait for mob to get close, Jump in plane get to new location, Shoot 'Repeat till dead'.

sorry i just don't see how mining with a vtol is any way a exploit.

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

sorry i just don't see how mining with a vtol is any way a exploit.

Indeed, you had to invest money on the vtol, in oil, and also in repairs. A lot more than if you mine walking, and probably more than using a car. The only other related cost are the mining gear, and the probes. And you have to put money on them you like it or not.

Using the vtol to hunt is in the opposite side, yes you have pay the vtol, repairs and Oil, but the related expenses of hunting aren't there (skills, armor, fap, etc..) and those are the expensive ones. See the difference?

That's the main problem imho.

 

[EarlVonKippler]

Get to location Start shooting mob, Wait for mob to get close, Jump in plane get to new location, Shoot 'Repeat till dead'.

sorry i just don't see how hunting with a vtol is any way a exploit. seems more like a pain in the ass instead.

like chopper said, the activity barely makes a scratch in the economy. hunting outside your skill level is a double edged sword and more often than not a person ends up well below their returns had they stuck with mobs on their playing field.

im not going to start hunting this way, but im not going to care if anyone else does either.

what i do care about is the potential bullshit nerf MA will concoct to satisfy the whiners.

im still pissed every time a mob gets 'unreachable' when im backing up while hunting. i have to wait to let them hit me before i can damage them again. clearly not trapped or unreachable, i just was able to avoid them long enough to trigger their trapped code.

seriously though, why not train mobs on em, kill steal, etc. be a griefer to people who play a way you don't? go be annoying ingame. nothing can be done here except draw lines in the sand of supporters on either side. this forum is a such a small, small, small percentage of the overall entropia population. as it has been stated by several people, myself included, this would hardly be a known situation if people weren't running to the forum to discuss it. hell, i bet the nonforum reader that "discovers" this technique is prolly so damn proud of their intelligent strategy. game play techniques that in any other game would be not only accepted but prolly encouraged.

 

[Sidewinder]

Have you ever considered that most EU participants don't or hardly visit this forum? So, what do you mean by "very publicly"?

IIRC Mary Jane got banned for it (temp)

 

[Shew]

iirc mary jane got banned for it (temp)

again like kemp said in with the very post you quoted

have you ever considered that most eu participants don't or hardly visit this forum? So, what do you mean by "very publicly"?

That means MOST don't have a clue of who MJ is or that he got banned.

That means MOST don't have a clue that there is a VTOL exploit because MA has NEVER made it known in a manner EVERYONE has a chance to be notified of it.

Again as Kemp states

have you ever considered that most eu participants don't or hardly visit this forum? So, what do you mean by "very publicly"?

Clear?

 

[Mary Jane]

again like kemp said in with the very post you quoted



That means MOST don't have a clue of who MJ is or that he got banned.

That means MOST don't have a clue that there is a VTOL exploit because MA has NEVER made it known in a manner EVERYONE has a chance to be notified of it.

Again as Kemp states

Clear?

I told 1 thousand times i got lock for using VTOL when hunting and because dozens of people report me with jelousy ...

Use VTOL is exploit when you take advantage against others

 

[Charlie Gloom]

There is a effect on the economy as it would say that you don't need to invest much into the game....

But why would mining with a flying ship make a difference? I am not hunting a mob. I am not argoing a mob on others.
I can mine with a Car but if i do that and any Greendots are around it will probably argo on them.
I am not taking advantage of the mob being 'trapped' i am just mining.
So how can you say mining with a vtol is a exploit?
what am i doing wrong that would consider it being one? I am still playing in the rules Get to a location drop bomb move on.
I am not Get to location Start shooting mob, Wait for mob to get close, Jump in plane get to new location, Shoot 'Repeat till dead'.

sorry i just don't see how mining with a vtol is any way a exploit.

The only way I could see it as an exploit is mining with a vtol decreases decay when mining in mobs. The main thing I could see being an exploit that does give an advantage over some is the fact with vtol you can turn more ped per an hour. Many mine for profit, this allows for more ped turned over so more profit in the end. This more ped turned over might not seem like a lot but due to a supply and demand market, this affect can be more then you think if it affects mu's.

 

[Shew]

I told 1 thousand times i got lock for using VTOL when hunting and because dozens of people report me with jelousy ...

Use VTOL is exploit when you take advantage against others

what you talking about willis?

I'm not talking about you. Only thing metioned about you is in regards to your ban and it being known on THIS FORUM.

My comments are in regards ABOUT MA and them not making known on a medium that is available to ALL PEOPLE about what is an exploit and use of which will result in a ban. This forum as MANY OTHERS have mentioned is not 1. known by all people, 2. not visited by all people, 3. not an official means for all people, 4. there are other forums for other planets.

Only one means to communicate with ALL players. That is the loader screen. MA should make use of it and publish a list of what are exploits that will result in a ban.

 

[Xen]

I see, so according to some people here, if an act is not explicitly and specifically prohibited in the client loader, then it's legal. Good luck with that.

 

[Futurama]

I see, so according to some people here, if an act is not explicitly and specifically prohibited in the client loader, then it's legal. Good luck with that.

I don`t watch TV, read newspapers, surf on the internet, talk to people. Therefore i can do whatever i want.

 

[Shew]

I see, so according to some people here, if an act is not explicitly and specifically prohibited in the client loader, then it's legal. Good luck with that.

What if MA decided tomorrow that walking backwards to avoid being hit while attacking is an exploit? You call it a feature being able to avoid damage. They and others may see it differently. By the criteria MA gives for ping ponging use of a VTOL, hit and run tactics could be considered by some exploiting because some people are able to outrun some mobs while others can't, while others know it is using tactics.

The way MA pick and chooses how to define and enforce exploits opens up a shit storm of issues. They are consistently inconsistent.

Is this forum the Official means of notifying people? What about about other planets do they post the same info? What about the people that do not frequent the forums?

To eliminate confusion and double standards, they need to start using a medium that ALL people must view prior to entering the universe. Whether the person reads it or not is not an exuse, at least it would be published where it is easily viewable.

I don`t watch TV, read newspapers, surf on the internet, talk to people. Therefore i can do whatever i want.

You have signs on the roads telling you what the laws are, speed limit, stop signs, no left turns, etc... If you ignore them you can be fined.

Where has MA posted signs of what you cannot do, and if you do you will be "fined" or banned.

How fricking hard is it to understand that concept? Not everyone is as "intelligent" as you and play based on the manner of play they have learned from any other game.

When something is in game how are they to know if it is a feature or exploit unless MA tells people it is an exploit. And doing so AFTER THE FACT with a ban is not acceptable.

On top of that, MA makes it worse by not not making it known there is a problem exploit. they continue on with their non communication method, and don't fix the "exploit."

For those that are so daft to miss the point I can only hope that you find out personally that something you think is a tactic or feature is actually an exploit in MA's eyes and feal their idea of justice.

 

[Xen]

For those that are so daft to miss the point I can only hope that you find out personally that something you think is a tactic or feature is actually an exploit in MA's eyes and feal their idea of justice.

One would have to be daft to think that something that allows relative newbies to do something that normally requires tons of time/money invested in your avatar is not an exploit. The vast majority are just feigning ignorance.

 

[Shew]

One would have to be daft to think that something that allows relative newbies to do something that normally requires tons of time/money invested in your avatar is not an exploit. The vast majority are just feigning ignorance.

Is this game not evolving?

Are there not new weapons, items, vehicles, that permit new ways to do things both differently and differnt costs than even two years ago? With a changing universe and changing items, so tactics change.

You are basing your opinion on the way IT USED TO BE not how it is now.

At one time to move people a great distance required a wormhole chip that used massive amounts of M.E.

Now one can load them on his boat or in his vehicle or ship. I think the vehicies are much better than the wormhole chip, it's an improvement.

The soc that used the pitbulls as a tactic in the land grab was working with what was availablt to them. Nothing prevented people from rushing them and killing them inside the pitbull perimeter. But they cried exploit. I do agree some tweaks needed to be done. I feel once a vehicle is destroyed, it's destroyed. Make it costly to use that tactic.

MA needs to do a better job when they introduce new items/systems. They need to consider all aspects of it's use and implications. They need to do a better job at programming the features to prevent people from misuse. And they need to LET PEOPLE KNOW what misuse is (THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING OF ALL).

 

[burnsey]

One would have to be daft to think that something that allows relative newbies to do something that normally requires tons of time/money invested in your avatar is not an exploit. The vast majority are just feigning ignorance.

It isn't so cut and dry Xen. I've sent in some support cases for specific hunting strategies, and this is what support said.

We have been informed by SDS that the Creative utilization of the environment is part of the Planet Calypso experience.

Thank you for your inquiry. Hunting like this does not break the ToU.

If I described them in detail, some would think that they are as bad as the VTOL hunting methods.

 

[Sidewinder]

You have signs on the roads telling you what the laws are, speed limit, stop signs, no left turns, etc... If you ignore them you can be fined.

You're not seriously suggesting that all crimes have signs warning you against them around the world are you?

The "Don't murder" sign is a big favourite of mine, up there with "No rioting" and the "No violence" signs.

No, an exploit does not need to be underlined and whatever else in the client loader for you to get banned for it, and this is for any game.

Example?

EvE online, a player (Monkeysphere) in a hgih ranking corp (Pandemic Legion IIRC) had an exploit that allowed him to not show up in local, effectively making him like some kind of phantom killer. He did it for a while, then got banned. And, when i say a while I mean a long while. No huge sign on the client. Another example? Sure, same game, dropping tons and tons of canisters around gates to effectively massively hinder those entering the systems ability to react to danger through increased latency has led to some bans. Its an exploit, but again, not on client. In fact. I don't know of any game that keeps a list of exploits in its clientloader. I'd be interested to see.

The claim that people don't visit forums is a void one; an exploit is described as something that goes against intended design of the game. Bypassing decay and fap costs using a vehicle falls squarely in this zone if the player uses their head. Otherwise, why is the armour and guns even in the game, why not just use vehicles. Remove faps too.

The game may be evolving, but think. Just think. The point of vehicles was to bypass large distances, sure. And that may have made WH chips less usefull sure, but, that was the clear intended usage of them. Usage of vehicles to hunt mobs far above ones level...does not make sense from any HONEST/NOT-STUPID persons point of view.

This is a "quick" fix though. The second the mob has been shot with a vehicular weapon it is non-lootable, much like those killed by turrets.

 

[mastermesh]

What if MA decided tomorrow that walking backwards to avoid being hit while attacking is an exploit? You call it a feature being able to avoid damage. They and others may see it differently. By the criteria MA gives for ping ponging use of a VTOL, hit and run tactics could be considered by some exploiting because some people are able to outrun some mobs while others can't, while others know it is using tactics.

The way MA pick and chooses how to define and enforce exploits opens up a shit storm of issues. They are consistently inconsistent.

Is this forum the Official means of notifying people? What about about other planets do they post the same info? What about the people that do not frequent the forums?

To eliminate confusion and double standards, they need to start using a medium that ALL people must view prior to entering the universe. Whether the person reads it or not is not an exuse, at least it would be published where it is easily viewable.





You have signs on the roads telling you what the laws are, speed limit, stop signs, no left turns, etc... If you ignore them you can be fined.

Where has MA posted signs of what you cannot do, and if you do you will be "fined" or banned.

How fricking hard is it to understand that concept? Not everyone is as "intelligent" as you and play based on the manner of play they have learned from any other game.

When something is in game how are they to know if it is a feature or exploit unless MA tells people it is an exploit. And doing so AFTER THE FACT with a ban is not acceptable.

On top of that, MA makes it worse by not not making it known there is a problem exploit. they continue on with their non communication method, and don't fix the "exploit."

For those that are so daft to miss the point I can only hope that you find out personally that something you think is a tactic or feature is actually an exploit in MA's eyes and feal their idea of justice.

I'd say they should even go further than that. They should not just put the rules in text on the client loader or in game since people will just ignore it, in much the same way many just click through the eula. What they need to do is make it so that if something is 'illegal' in game, then program it to be impossible for an avatar to partake in that action. It's really that simple. If the vtols are illegal to hunt with, program them to work that way. Until you can make them act that way don't put them in game at all. The problem is they are introducing all this new stuff all the time and not thinking ahead of time how it will impact the systems and 'balancing' of stuff that is already in game. They need to be much, much, much more proactive instead of reactive.

The game may be evolving, but think. Just think. The point of vehicles was to bypass large distances, sure. And that may have made WH chips less usefull sure, but, that was the clear intended usage of them. Usage of vehicles to hunt mobs far above ones level...does not make sense from any HONEST/NOT-STUPID persons point of view.

Using technology such as vehicles to hunt makes absolute sense in a sci-fi oriented game environment such as Planet Calypso... in much the same way that hunting with a rifle from a distance so you take less armor decay or hits before the mob is on top of you makes sense. How many sci-fi movies have you seen where vehicles are not used to help take down some bad guy, monster or alien? The vehicles wouldn't have armor ratings if they weren't intended to be used in some sort of combat.

Perhaps every distance weapon in game should be considered an exploit since it's an unfair advantage against those of us who choose to use swords, or the poor mobs that are unarmed? Of course, that's silly, but it's not really any more silly than saying the vtol is an exploit when they even said in the vu update that the vtols came out with that mobs don't damage the flying vehicles. I've never owned a vtol yet, and am not sure if I ever will, but those that purchased them because of that feature/service paid 'real cash' to obtain the vtols for that reason in much the same way us estate owners paid real cash to have estates that function, many of which are not functioning at the moment.

 

[Shew]

You're not seriously suggesting that all crimes have signs warning you against them around the world are you?

The "Don't murder" sign is a big favourite of mine, up there with "No rioting" and the "No violence" signs.

No, an exploit does not need to be underlined and whatever else in the client loader for you to get banned for it, and this is for any game.

Example?

EvE online, a player (Monkeysphere) in a hgih ranking corp (Pandemic Legion IIRC) had an exploit that allowed him to not show up in local, effectively making him like some kind of phantom killer. He did it for a while, then got banned. And, when i say a while I mean a long while. No huge sign on the client. Another example? Sure, same game, dropping tons and tons of canisters around gates to effectively massively hinder those entering the systems ability to react to danger through increased latency has led to some bans. Its an exploit, but again, not on client. In fact. I don't know of any game that keeps a list of exploits in its clientloader. I'd be interested to see.

The claim that people don't visit forums is a void one; an exploit is described as something that goes against intended design of the game. Bypassing decay and fap costs using a vehicle falls squarely in this zone if the player uses their head. Otherwise, why is the armour and guns even in the game, why not just use vehicles. Remove faps too.

The game may be evolving, but think. Just think. The point of vehicles was to bypass large distances, sure. And that may have made WH chips less usefull sure, but, that was the clear intended usage of them. Usage of vehicles to hunt mobs far above ones level...does not make sense from any HONEST/NOT-STUPID persons point of view.

This is a "quick" fix though. The second the mob has been shot with a vehicular weapon it is non-lootable, much like those killed by turrets.

I've seen exploits in other games. I've seen quick response once those exploits were made know, including in Eve.

It comes down to the company identifying the exploit (hardest part), then fixing it. MA is slow to act in fixing them, including the VTOL issue. When eve became aware of the starbase exploit, they acted quickly. and removed all affected starbases. What is MA's excuse? If they cannot fix it then remove them. Peopel at one time would jump from balconies to gain access to other people's apartments. MA changed the parameters making it so you cannot jump from balconies.


I can't compete and I can't muster anymore effort to bring understanding to those that choose not to. I'm not saying people are wrong, but I'm trying to say it's not as cut and dry as some would have you believe. It's not a perfect system, and the more that's introduced the harder it is to manage. MA has a LOT of work to do. For them to rely on a person's common sense to determine what is right and wrong is a cop out plain and simple. The example of murder was given, but even that is not cut and dry in all countries. Some have honor killings, which in the U.S. is murder. It depends on where you live. So if you want people from different cultures to know what the rules are, PUBLISH THEM.

 

[Jennson]

Well after all this discoussion i can say, let the exploiters do whatever they do and simply record it with FRAPS and report them. Done. They shall discuss with MA why they got temp or perm banned about using this non-exploit.

 

[Damage Dead]

It isn't so cut and dry Xen. I've sent in some support cases for specific hunting strategies, and this is what support said.





If I described them in detail, some would think that they are as bad as the VTOL hunting methods.

Well I can only imagine..

IMO hoping in and out of your VTOL was not an intended feature for hunting, just like server boarders were NOT.

I'll keep hunting normally, quit being a pussy and take some decay.. If we all hunted on even terms maybe loot distribution would not be so fucked!

 

[Strash]

Exactly

well said damage dead.

 

[dr3w]

So if you want people from different cultures to know what the rules are, PUBLISH THEM.

Yes, give perfect instructions how to use exploits to idiots. Also, give them info, that if they will be banned - they will be unbanned after month and keep their stuff anyway. Yeah, why not?

 

[~CHOPPER~]

I don`t watch TV, read newspapers, surf on the internet, talk to people. Therefore i can do whatever i want.

Poor analogy.

If you get a ticket for a traffic infraction, it is written as a law.

Just because you may of not known about that particular law, you still are responsible, ignorance is not a defense.


MA hands out bans for unwritten rules...that's an irresponsible business practice.. plain and simple.

 

[Daniel Steps]

I keep seeing people hunting with Vtol's and Helicopters. First if you can't Handle the mob DOn't DO it. If you want to hunt the mob Then USE armor a FAPPER OR Chip up.
PLAY the GAME right. It will make it more worth it. Don't cheapen the game, respect it.
Don't abuse the vtol's please.

Thanks.

I'd agree, but as it's coming from the guy that mines using a VTOL, i find that ridiculous. Why don't you take the decay of the mobs inbetween where you land and the time it takes to run inbetween, you know, to "not cheapen the game, [but] respect it"?

 

[minim]

I'd agree, but as it's coming from the guy that mines using a VTOL, i find that ridiculous. Why don't you take the decay of the mobs inbetween where you land and the time it takes to run inbetween, you know, to "not cheapen the game, [but] respect it"?

Is it allowed to add this; "Man who live in glass house should not throw stone."?

Wonder how the price is on a eMINE PG set nowadays when it's not needed by the miners anymore

 

[Majstorex]

And he probably won't give you one, because what he calls 'exploiting' is doing hit-&-run while hunting, not abusing the VTOL's loss of aggro feature, which is what the exploit per se actually is and something miners benefit from themselves while mining.

There's no point arguing with these people whom I bet all have used ranged weapons to hunt and always shot their weapon from it's maximum range capacity and walking backwards while the mob closes in to minimize armor and fap decay, which is just as much 'common sense' as doing hit-&-run tactics if it's within your power.

So couse i skilled up to lvl 40 grenadier, only to be able to use high dmg long range weapon im exploiting?

Maybe skill up so you can use range weapons for yourself, so you will be able to minimize your fap and armor decay?

what a bunch of BS

What if MA decided tomorrow that walking backwards to avoid being hit while attacking is an exploit? .

you dont seem to hunt much. Otherwise you wouldev known that if you walk backwards while shooting a mob, it mostlikely become unreachable.

 

[Alina]

bad for economy they don't need good armor, good gun, healing service

 

[DRDoom]

Sry, I didn't read the whole thread.

I don't own any vehicle but please can someone clarify in a simple statement the following:

I understand that using VTOL to avoid aggro when mob is closing in is considered cheating. (But that could be easily solved by a disallowing of entering a VTOL when under aggro.)

But for the rest:
-MA creating vehicles for Land, air and water.
-After that MA creates weapon attachments for the vehicles. (I guess you also need skills to use those.)
-So now you cannot use the vehicles with weapon attachments to hunt?

Isn't that the same as saying that using tiered weapons with enhancers to hunt because they do more dmg is cheating?