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Swunters NOTE: Why Amps should be allowed in Swunts

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twiztedjoker

Old
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Posts
81
Hello all,

The reason as to why I've created this thread is to clarify just how "fair" TT Weapon/CB5 swunts actually are.

Understandably i'm fairly new to swunting and EU in general, but i'm absolutely appalled at the amount of senseless rules that most swunts have in general. Specifically, the rule of no amps on guns.

Put simply,

Opalo + A101 = 5.566 Avg DPS = Castorian Survival EnBlade-A(TT Dagger)

Likewise, if we look at Opalo/CB5 only swunts,

Opalo unamped = 4.048 DPS
Isis CB5 = 4.416 DPS

(If you guys wish to do the math yourself you are welcome to, I understand many members of EF are fond of number-crunching ^^)

With that said, could someone please tell me how that makes it fair to Opalo users who've paid the 140ped odd MU for an A101 and not being able to use it!? I'd say (give or take) a hundred swunts and the A101 already makes for some serious eco savings. If those using the dagger wish to spend that extra 0.12pec more on skilling Health and what not, then why not an A101 on an opalo on loot?

Evidently, an Opalo/CB5 hunt would be much more reasonable with a reasonable difference of only 0.332dmg - negligible in the least. In the fairest of situations, an Opalo only hunt. Savvy?

Anyway, this is just my 2 cents worth and hope that most swunt team leaders and members alike will take this into consideration when they organize swunts. Any afterthoughts, comments or rebuttal's are welcome :)


Cheers,
twiztedjoker
 
I guess the "Opalo/CB5 no amps" rules are for fair split of stacks, but to be honest I don't care, have been in swunts with players that kill an ambu in like 4 shots and still split the big loots =)
 
If that were the case for me hell I'd be happy to take part in those swunts :) but lets not forget that majority of your kills will be split stacks rather than single, large items. Moreover, since we 'assume' the amped opalo's will do more dmg then we'll have to split the big loots even though we pay more anyway!
 
twiztedjoker said:
If that were the case for me hell I'd be happy to take part in those swunts :) but lets not forget that majority of your kills will be split stacks rather than single, large items. Moreover, since we 'assume' the amped opalo's will do more dmg then we'll have to split the big loots even though we pay more anyway!
Click to expand...

Yep, but the 90% of kills you are taking more stacks from a mob than otherwise you wont be able to kill, I mean it's a creature you can't solo and using amps when you other teammates don't gives you more share.

But like I said earlier, I'm not sure about these rules.
 
I've never been in a swunt team but have hunted a kajillion times in big teams where all different levels of weapons are being used. In those teams we have the loot on stack share so the dmg done proportionally by each team member is reflected in their loot share. Any items over 50 peds we sell and share equally.

Why can't this same team setting work for a swunt?
 
You can form your own team and make your own rules. You may allow amps. You may also form a team where any weapon is used. I team hunt this way all the time. Big guns get bigger stacks, small guns spend less $$. But I like to split $$Items with everyone.
 
Most swunt team general rule is this:

opalo/CB5 only, unamp no enchancer.

but once in awhile there are a few people asking can I use TT fist/sword/knife to skill up HP / strength?

then fair enough.

but TT knife does the most Dmg/sec, at reasonable decay.

OP was just making a point that if TT knife is allowed, opalo + A101 should also be allowed since it does exactly the same amount of (number wise) damage.

as the above mention, make your own group and make your own rule, which is also fine. But i think OP is trying to say that if anyone in a swunt group uses TT knife, they should also allow to use opalo + a101.


as for me, I run my swunt like this:

opalo (SGA)/ CB5, TT weapon all allowed. Amp allowed, enhancer, use at your own risk XD

:D
 
@Jambayze

Yes, I could, and I am! All I am trying to do now is to change the general mindset of swunters as to why amps SHOULD be allowed.

@Heap & Angel

As you can see Heap you are right in the sense where hunting with a bigger gun gives bigger loot, albeit with bigger decay. But if you look at Angel's argument the amps will give an advantage to the player as he gets presumably better loot due to his/her higher damage. On that note, Angel, if I amp my gun, I pay more. If there is no loot or bad loot I stand to lose out. If there is better loot I stand to win. Vice versa for the unamped opalos. And as I mentioned before, the avg dps on a TT dagger is the SAME as an Opalo. What's stopping them from getting one to match my damage instead of me trying to cover my MU?

Oh and yes, all swunts do use split stacks.
 
The problem is that the preferred mob is ambulimax, which has high regen.
It's insane tbh.

Swunters should swunt longu, which also has a lot of sweat to offer, and doesn't take a gazillion bullets to kill.
Then the need for an amp should be less too, because you can technically kill a longu with one opalo.

I have an opalo sga...I wonder if I would get strange faces if I were to join a swunt, because it does more dps then a normal one.

What about tiered up opalos ? technically they are not amped.. just enhanced..
 
same deal IMO, not sure what the dmg on a tiered opalo tho. If you have an SGA then you should be able to use it since you paid for the MU or it's worth something more than the original. It's unfair that you aren't able to eco swunt :)
 
well, u can think of it this way.

the sweat gathered should be in theory pays off the ammo. (pff)

so if everyone use the exact same weapon, then all is cool.

but when someone amp their opalo and bad loot appears all day long, the only lost are the ppl who amped, and the ppl that didnt amp gain, since amp will shoot less and decay less. (shoot less due to amp deal most dmg)

then if there are any loot (pfff, whats loot again?) ppl who amp get 1 extra oil residue more then the unamp :D

u know what i think, i think we should all swunt ambu with our HL11 :laugh:
 
discuss it at the start of swunt
if you cannt find rules that work for you then choose another swunting team

posting rules here that you have to swunt in a certain way seems a bit overkill
 
this is a good discussion.

generally speaking, those who use amp+opalo take a greater risk. if the loot is poor they lose more. if the loot is good they get extra only based on the extra dmg they did.

there is no good reason to not allow someone in a swunt because they want to use a A101 with their Opalo. only people who don't understand the game will do that.

in fact, there is no guarantee that all the players who are using just an Opalo will get the same loot. some will get the no sweat message sooner and they will do more dmg. as a result they will get more loot.
 
No amp, no enhancer, cb5/opalo only... if the damage difference cb5>opalo bothers you that much, buy a cb5, I saw one on AH two days ago, sb 1ped with like 0.80tt on it which is more than enough to last you a few swunts and can be easily acquired by anyone. An A101, or tiering/enhancers are not so readily accessible.
This is just my opinion, ultimately I don't care what you do, but I wouldn't join a regular ambu style swunt without those rules. And if anyone pulls out an amp or enhancers, or whatever, they're - more often than not - swiftly dealt to by someone.
:naughty:

Even in soc hunts (in the past) we all used as close to the same DPS in our respective specialist class of weapon as possible, so as to ensure we're all equally sharing the kill responsibility and reward. The only real exceptions to this were events like the Migrations (omg I miss those chirpy's! :laugh:) and Bot Wars... oh and when Leto/Fresco was introduced... and.. and...
I guess my point is; there are no set rules, but you must respect that if someone is creating a team with rules in place, then those are the rules. If you don't like it, then make your own team. ;)
 
generally speaking, those who use amp+opalo take a greater risk. if the loot is poor they lose more. if the loot is good they get extra only based on the extra dmg they did.
Click to expand...

Yes, thats a very valid opinion!
the people who are amped loose more if there are no loot.


Profit said:
I guess my point is; there are no set rules, but you must respect that if someone is creating a team with rules in place, then those are the rules. If you don't like it, then make your own team. ;)
Click to expand...

yup can not agree more XD
 
twiztedjoker said:
@Jambayze

Yes, I could, and I am! All I am trying to do now is to change the general mindset of swunters as to why amps SHOULD be allowed.

@Heap & Angel

As you can see Heap you are right in the sense where hunting with a bigger gun gives bigger loot, albeit with bigger decay. But if you look at Angel's argument the amps will give an advantage to the player as he gets presumably better loot due to his/her higher damage. On that note, Angel, if I amp my gun, I pay more. If there is no loot or bad loot I stand to lose out. If there is better loot I stand to win. Vice versa for the unamped opalos. And as I mentioned before, the avg dps on a TT dagger is the SAME as an Opalo. What's stopping them from getting one to match my damage instead of me trying to cover my MU?

Oh and yes, all swunts do use split stacks.
Click to expand...

I love this argument, lol. And by no means am I directing that comment at you Twiz, its just that if I had a ped for everytime I heard this misconception I would be rich. :)

You do not get more loot for using a bigger gun, you get exactly the proportion in loot as dmg done to the mob. As Thoreau correctly mentions, using a bigger gun means you are more at risk to fluctuations in loot. Loot sucks, you've lost more than anyone else if you have the biggest gun. Loot doesn't suck, ok you got more loot in inventory than the next guy but that spent vs return ratio remains the same for all team members.

And as someone that has always had a dps fetish, I can vouch for the fact that people using smaller guns generally come out ahead in the long run.

Why is that? On those rare occasions when you do loot an item that gets equally split the person with the biggest gun loses out because they aren't getting a proportional share of the items sale value to the dmg they did to the mob.

I can respect the attempt of a team now and then to use the same relative dps for each member but making a claim that bigger weapons allows for dis-proportional loot in favor of the biggest gun is simply a lack of understanding about how this game works.

Whew, I'm glad I don't swunt, I think everyone would hate me. :D
 
I see what you're driving at now Heap, and yes I do agree that people using the smaller guns tend to be at an advantage. That is why (to me) seeing an m2100 at any kind of team hunt/swunt makes me cringe a little :)
 
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