The ACTUAL Cost of a Warp in Entropia Universe

atomicstorm

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In a world of constant misleading commentary, posts, and media (or people) with obvious agendas - I feel it is necessary for a rebuttal to a poor "log" of earnings on warp services. It is important to understand what it takes, at a very minimum, to make an investment of a privateer or mothership work. Considering the content of this post, please do not merge threads.

It is important that if you are going to keep logs, that you are keeping logs of all aspects of your activity. No free rolls, no neglecting of markup. It allows you to see what you are doing to your bankroll and perhaps that activity (crafting or otherwise), maybe isn't as good of an idea as you think it is.

Rebuttal of: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/cost-of-a-warp-flight-in-eu.277410/

Disclaimer: I do not own a mothership or privateer but have done warp services in the past.

Assumptions
  • 1 Jump
  • Not including weight restrictions and complications
  • No white glove planet pick up services from motherships, summon only
  • Cannot count crafting multipliers as they are not guaranteed and are therefore considered bonus if achieved
  • Does not include failed warps or Mindark bugs that require multiple warp jumps to compensate for the failure
  • Does not include pirate activity that adds defense costs, including but not limited to ammo, repairing, and payment to crew members
  • Does not include SI (ship armor) upgrades, often paid by revenue generated from warp activity

Equus - (42,000 PED outlay approx)
UL Warp Drive - 1 Use - 3ped TT
UL Thruster - 2 Uses - 0.18ped TT
Fuel spent for shuttling, warping, and planet movement - 0.60ped TT @ 102%

Cost Approx 3.8ped

Privateer/Motherships (35,000 to 150,000 PED outlay)

L Warp Drive 1 - 1 Use - 3ped TT @ 170% MU = 5.1ped total (see markup calculation for crafting or purchase)
L Thruster Use - 4 Uses - 0.36ped TT, 140% mu - 0.504ped total (unless using a summon alt)
Fuel spent for shuttling and warping - 0.04ped (more if atmosphere services) 102% MU - 0.0408ped total
Fuel spent for returning to planet (provider) - 0.50ped 102% MU - 0.51ped total

After markup, total cost of 1 warp is approximately 6.1548ped. Multiple jumps will not multiply thruster or fuel use but the margin is slim @ 7ped.

Warp Drive 1 (L) Crafting

Warp Drive BP per click -- 0.01ped @ 6000% mu --- 0.60ped
4 generic fuses -- 20ped @ 215% mu -- 43ped
10 Narcanisum Ingot -- 2.4ped TT @ 105% -- 2.52ped total
100 Lysterium Ingot -- 3.0ped TT @ 104% -- 3.12ped total
200 Standard Lever -- 3.84ped TT @ 134% -- 5.1456ped total

Each attempt: 29.25ped TT or 54.3856ped MU

On Success
Metal Residue - 120.76ped TT @ 100.9% -- 121.84ped total
Each warp drive = 50 warps @ 150ped TT total

Simulation

10 attempts, Given success - 40% (generous) = 4 successes
Assumes 6 failures, not partial successes - since those are variable, alterations to the warp drive MU price is slim, depending on near successes containing generic fuses

Base Cost: 292.50ped TT
Added Residue: 483.04ped @ 100.9%
Base + Markup Cost: 543.856ped + 4.34ped from residue = 548.196
Total TT of warp drives: 600ped TT (@191% mu, markup cost, the cost to get back/divided by total product -- 548.196/600)

If you buy it at current avg AH price of 170% (there was not one present for that at the time and lowest price was 590%), each warp drive use is 5.1ped. If you make it yourself with a generous success rate at 191%, it would be 5.73. Plus remember that generic fuses used to be 400%+ and if we get into a dry period of these resources (which is the complaint currently), the price will go up.

Given the numbers above, I would recommend being weary of folks saying otherwise -- although I think most people know that it was bunk. I would also review all your activities in the exact same way to determine if what you are doing is actually a loss. Auction fees can be destructive to your margins.

But Longtime! I loot this stuff myself!

That does not matter since you could sell it for markup. This means you are earning the markup in one spot of your ledger and buying it in another. This does not change the cost in any way. What profit you would have gotten in selling the fuses, you got on the other end of the ledger when you sold your warp services.
 
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mspatterson

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Well said!! id like to also point out that the crafting costs are very generous numbers considering there isnt enough supply to do a large enough crafting run to achieve that number and it could be years of running in the negative before you realize those figures!

also the cost of fuse exponentially affects warp drive crafting costs
**super big word =====^ =p
 
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Alainax

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Failed jumps add costs also. MA everyone once in a while likes to dump you in the middle of space. Over the course of many jumps the failed add up.

Not to mention if someone were to start warp mining again...
 

Geo

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Accurate information.
Not to mention other costs associated with running a reliable warp service such as SI upgrades, crew, gunners and Skilling.
Without these a ships service can easily be shut down by a simple quad camping SS
 
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xxPriestxx

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Thanks for posting this... plus 1000.

By the way - please keep in mind this is for ONE jump. Anyone can be the judge if 10 or 12 PED profit (sometimes less, sometimes a bit more) is too much, but considering how expensive these ships are and the time it takes to be available, not to mention the costs of ship upgrading, skilling captain skills, etc... anyway, you be the judge :)

And congratulations to Ben Tony Dover for making .02 PED per warp profit on a great day.
 

mspatterson

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I cant read this anymore im cramping laughing for 3hrs now from previous thread..


im actually in seerious physical pain! =p
 
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Starkiller

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But Ben Dover has such a good business plan! You are just jealous.

Buying Privateers / Motherships TT+1 at Boxes
 

mspatterson

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But OP on this pointed this out. Without previous thread reference. So made you laugh for 3 hours?
multiple threads and all of the conversations yes possibly closer to 4 even. would you like me to pm u so we can discuss it in more detail and not derail the thread? =p
 

Thorns Rose

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multiple threads and all of the conversations yes possibly closer to 4 even. would you like me to pm u so we can discuss it in more detail and not derail the thread? =p
No dear..I thought you are laughing at OP.
Is it Atomics math or?

I like that conversation ..id even open for discussion, personally
 
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mspatterson

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No dear..I thought you are laughing at OP.

I like that conversation ..id even open for discussion, personally
oh yeh i see now.. my bad. when i made that post it was from a link in discord and i didnt realize until after it was a new thread. its all based on the previous thread :)
 

Thorns Rose

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oh yeh i see now.. my bad. when i made that post it was from a link in discord and i didnt realize until after it was a new thread. its all based on the previous thread :)
Oh Ok..I see...Looking back at what you mentioned of threads........ Holy cow.
 

San

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+1

Plus the opportunity cost of the large upfront investment, measured in deed returns you didn't actualize because of deciding for the ship instead.
Plus financing cost, in case you took out a loan in RL for it.
Plus operating cost, i.e. energy consumption and eventual replacements of your computer or any related expenses (e.g. food deliveries in times you're indispensable and forgot to plan ahead).
Plus the opportunity cost of deciding to become a virtual bus driver in lieu of any RL job or business, or if part-time the amount it cuts you short of other paths.
 

NoBion

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I choose to believe that the current prices being charged are spot on. There are multiple stabile warp services available almost 24/7. That is possible because there is also some reasonable profit for the warp service owners. Also it's only 10 ped if you take scheduled warps.

Going by Ben doves example, it would be hard to find a warp, and it wouldn't be fair to anyone spending their time on running it, lets be realistic here

Can't understand this discussion is even neccesary, even more amplified by the fact there is some quite decent people running these services, I have no problem trusting them about giving a fair price.

Keep up the good work (y)
 

Darth Revan

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I don't think it really matters what it costs for a warp, people can price it at whatever they want to. You can justify it anyway you wish as well, mothership costs, crew, oil, warp drives, thrusters, advertising, website costs, time spent, ammo to shoot pirates, gifts to lootius to keep you safe. Any of those can be relevant and also not at the same time.

As a consumer, i would only care what it cost's me, not what it cost's the owners of the mothership service. When i buy something in Real Life, i don't go around thinking, oh that company product costs more because of the number of staff they have, the number of buildings, rent, advertising, power to keep it going, the fact they recently decided to buy another company, etc. I only are about what i get for my money.

If one ship owner decides that they can afford to give a service from A to B, at a considerable discount compared to other owners, then the only thing i would care about is whether it is safe (if i was carrying loot) and whether it gets me where i want in a decent timeframe. I don't care if they are making a huge profit, a huge loss or just breaking even. If they are taking a big loss, then they will not be offering it at that price for very long, unless they are recouping the loss another way.

Same thing if i am buying something off auction, do i care how much it cost that person to make/get the item? How much it cost them to tier it? time they spent gathering resources if applicable?
nope, i only care what it costs me. Of course, if all service providers are offering it at the same price, then that would be a different story.

In conclusion - if you are happy to pay for a warp in the first place, then choose whoever you feel safe travelling with (thats an individual thing) and what price you are happy with..
 

mspatterson

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I don't think it really matters what it costs for a warp, people can price it at whatever they want to. You can justify it anyway you wish as well, mothership costs, crew, oil, warp drives, thrusters, advertising, website costs, time spent, ammo to shoot pirates, gifts to lootius to keep you safe. Any of those can be relevant and also not at the same time.

As a consumer, i would only care what it cost's me, not what it cost's the owners of the mothership service. When i buy something in Real Life, i don't go around thinking, oh that company product costs more because of the number of staff they have, the number of buildings, rent, advertising, power to keep it going, the fact they recently decided to buy another company, etc. I only are about what i get for my money.

If one ship owner decides that they can afford to give a service from A to B, at a considerable discount compared to other owners, then the only thing i would care about is whether it is safe (if i was carrying loot) and whether it gets me where i want in a decent timeframe. I don't care if they are making a huge profit, a huge loss or just breaking even. If they are taking a big loss, then they will not be offering it at that price for very long, unless they are recouping the loss another way.

Same thing if i am buying something off auction, do i care how much it cost that person to make/get the item? How much it cost them to tier it? time they spent gathering resources if applicable?
nope, i only care what it costs me. Of course, if all service providers are offering it at the same price, then that would be a different story.

In conclusion - if you are happy to pay for a warp in the first place, then choose whoever you feel safe travelling with (thats an individual thing) and what price you are happy with..
Well lets hope he's listening because its clear there is only one person trying to focus on price like the worst salesman of the year and we know who that is :)
 
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