Suggestion: The NR1 thing that makes ppl not deposit, or deposit less...

[Sheryo]

1 : Other cheap and fun games : A sorcerer game, a survival in a forest and a crazy atomic game and much more to come, solo, coop and mmo.

2 : The cost to play Entropia : much much higher than before, I've played with 60 effi guns, played with 92 effi guns, results weren't that different. I'm stuck in the loot 0.2. I know the game pretty well, kept learning and discovering it for years, started in feb 2003 with a few breaks. Came back early in january with digging as much infos as I could get, trying to understand the loot waves, which mob to hunt and when, which ressources to sell, when and at which price, did bunch of tests to re-learn things, collecting datas, counted every pecs I could save/gain. I came back with a bankroll expecting it to last for about 6 months - I was so wrong, upgraded my gear to reduce my cost to play, I have decent skills and I keep getting a better level, grinding up to 10 hours a day manually.

On 13 sessions like this one, for the past 30 days, only one has been in the positive and by not that much, thanks to Falx and Holy Moly event. The markup... well, you can't really count on it, tier components and such helps but the ammount you get per hour is far to be enough, I used to have a decent spot for markup until it became crowded and some afkers with imk2 came and crashed most of the markups. Last time I got something decent with markup was Eon harness M SGA in 2009, never got any fat GSI, haven't even looted a small one for years.

My results of Loot Nanny aren't 100% accurate but it's close to the reality, and it shows only the ammo consumption.

It's good to see the success stories of some, it's refreshing and can give some motivations, but some times it's sounds fishy, too good to be true and then you add the usual "Keep shooting, the game is never gonna give you up" - "what you're not ready to do, I'm doing it, that's why I profit and you not" - , "I'm full natty and with perseverance you can reach the same level, says testoman" those facebook cringe motivational sentences are getting annoying. Some players/workers achieve to profit, to reach 98%+ TT return, that's very nice but you gotta understand there is a huge part of the playerbase who's below 85% and even less.

Entropia is the game I invested the most, in time and money, enjoyed the most and got the most frustration from. Only a tt+5 ring from so many opened boxes, over 100K ped lost from scams, MA not wanting to reward items from won events/SGA guiding, I sometimes feel all of this has been a waste of ressources.

Opened my last batch of boxes, went straight to the "lootpool". Probably the last time I put a cent in the game. Not really interested in the withdraw time as it has never been the goal until I get all the gear I want, could help tho for the withdraw -> open boxes -> withdraw -> open boxes meta.

Peace,

 

[jetsina]

And yea, I'm probably just stuck in the good old days, don't listen to me

I try to listen to (read) most stuff and then filter the various positions. Some people take wild swings at ideas, mostly missing, but sometimes I agree. Others consolidate from the past and feel changes more slowly but surely. I prefer to be around people who at least partially get of sense of what they are right about and what is undecided: things that hold true for them deeper down.

People today can travel to whatever areas or the cave and hunt argos, a bit like going out onto the hills of old near Twin, but with more choices of maturity and density. Familiar fun reinforces itself over time and appeals to the types who like 'routines'. But poor returns and not even much mu make for poor routines, so the attraction slips away. It could even be an ultimate reason, not depositing because EU has slipped away.

For newer players it may be that the path simply seems too long, as in not having even a chance of moving up the ladder without playing for a long time per day and depositing an unknown huge amount. The game is now rather mature and attracts neither spontaneous people nor 'dedicated' ones for very long. Older players may be of both types but have more solid skills and knowledge of what is fun and maybe even worthwhile for future fun.

Deeper down, I want to encourage activities which build people and educate, whilst being fun and accessible.

This universe platform still has huge potential, but the core drivers are increasingly distant instead of closer. That's a big reason not to put more inverstment in if I can coast along as things are, but see little point in upping my game... However, it could be worse. At least people are not massively trying to chip out, which is the flipside of the coin to not depositing as much as they might.

 

[WildD3mon]

how come that anything they do never works the first time

 

[jetsina]

I generally dislike words such as never and always being used on their own, because they are rarely actually true in life. Here, I've come to accept that bothering to say almost never/always is being pedantic, though; MA get as close to the wrong 100% as makes very little difference...

Another NR1 thing: I simply don't want to reward them, but crazily this still seems to be the best RCE environment I've found on this planet of ours... is it aliens inhibiting humankind's development, or what?

 

[atomicstorm]

I want to see MA pay bills with decay...

They pay bills with turnover, yes. Deposits are a liability on the sheets (unspent funds). Planet partners and Mindark can only make money this way through cycling/turnover. You think Arkadia being decay heavy on their weapons/armor was by chance? The other way they can do it is through pay gates: smuggler arkoins, land area sales, deed raises, etc.

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

They pay bills with turnover, yes. Deposits are a liability on the sheets (unspent funds). Planet partners and Mindark can only make money this way through cycling/turnover. You think Arkadia being decay heavy on their weapons/armor was by chance? The other way they can do it is through pay gates: smuggler arkoins, land area sales, deed raises, etc.

I got you, its not different than a poker economy. No need to play with semantics.

My point is that the rake/decay system is what promotes deposits. Just for arguments sake.

A highcycler uber cycles 1M peds a month and manages to withdraw 1kUSD at end.

A low level player deposits 5kUSD to buy gear.

Who paied the bills that month?

 

[atomicstorm]

I got you, its not different than a poker economy. No need to play with semantics.

My point is that the rake/decay system is what promotes deposits. Just for arguments sake.

A highcycler uber cycles 1M peds a month and manages to withdraw 1kUSD at end.

A low level player deposits 5kUSD to buy gear.

Who paied the bills that month?

The uber paid the bills, as is the system.

 

[DrGirlfriend]

I got you, its not different than a poker economy. No need to play with semantics.

My point is that the rake/decay system is what promotes deposits. Just for arguments sake.

A highcycler uber cycles 1M peds a month and manages to withdraw 1kUSD at end.

A low level player deposits 5kUSD to buy gear.

Who paied the bills that month?

the low level player made MA 0 dollars in that comparison

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

Then take out the low level depositing player of the equation.

How does MA pay the bills? How does the game go on after the uber players who cycle a lot take out most of the liquidity from the game only by decaying/paying for it?

Money doesn´t grow in trees. Ped neither... MA doesnt get a dollar in the bank for each 10ped we decay.

If you can explain to me how the system itself, being a raked/decay system, can maintain liquidity without deposits I will concede the point.

From then we can talk about how MA can or cannot use the PED assets in its virtual world as leverage in the banking system. And how much they are obliged to maintain in form of liquidity in a RL bank. But in any way shape or form are those assets relevant to paying bills in a month to month basis, other than requesting for a loan at the bank to then go and pay bills.

I have no doubts about your line of thought and understand it. But if you have no deposits, eventually there will be no ped left. Again, same happens in a poker economy. Fields shrink, competition gets tougher until there is only a few still headbutting and the house is always "winning".. until everyone stops playing cause there is only 1 left with the crumbs...

 

[jetsina]

A highcycler uber cycles 1M peds a month and manages to withdraw 1kUSD at end.

A low level player deposits 5kUSD to buy gear.

Just quoting the scenario, not disagreeing:

MA allows the the highcycler to somehow get something low tt that the low level player thinks is worth 50k peds. The highcycler would be losing 40k peds a month if it weren't for that mu, but gets a 20% cut of the 50k peds that MA turned into almost zero liability in ped tt terms.
The low level player gets the chance to cycle like mad too, as long as not an opalo, and maybe also get a payback by selling something to the next depositer of 5kUSD. If unlucky, no new item will be created and MA will leach out value the slow way by decay... MA can choose the speed...

The depositor has paid of course, and there isn't even a liability, just 1kUSD that the highcycler might be able to withdraw.

 

[DrGirlfriend]

Then take out the low level depositing player of the equation.

How does MA pay the bills? How does the game go on after the uber players who cycle a lot take out most of the liquidity from the game only by decaying/paying for it?

Money doesn´t grow in trees. Ped neither... MA doesnt get a dollar in the bank for each 10ped we decay.

If you can explain to me how the system itself, being a raked/decay system, can maintain liquidity without deposits I will concede the point.

From then we can talk about how MA can or cannot use the PED assets in its virtual world as leverage in the banking system. And how much they are obliged to maintain in form of liquidity in a RL bank. But in any way shape or form are those assets relevant to paying bills in a month to month basis, other than requesting for a loan at the bank to then go and pay bills.

I have no doubts about your line of thought and understand it. But if you have no deposits, eventually there will be no ped left. Again, same happens in a poker economy. Fields shrink, competition gets tougher until there is only a few still headbutting and the house is always "winning".. until everyone stops playing cause there is only 1 left with the crumbs...

This is all documented in their reports in Mindark.com
It’s not my opinion, this is legal facts, from their earnings reports

 

[messi91]

I got you, its not different than a poker economy. No need to play with semantics.

My point is that the rake/decay system is what promotes deposits. Just for arguments sake.

A highcycler uber cycles 1M peds a month and manages to withdraw 1kUSD at end.

A low level player deposits 5kUSD to buy gear.

Who paied the bills that month?

If you buy an armor or anything else you don't pay anyone at mindark, you pay a different avatar.Your input towards the game is zero ZERO.
If you cycle enough to become uber, you consistently feed Mindark.
Without deposits you wouldn't have a game today.The game is not designed for everyone to make money but its perfectly fine to throw a bone out there for people to fight for it, if not then most big bankrolls might just step out finding new activities elsewhere.

 

[PreyNaika]

basic math + basic example how mindark does its money

*The withdrawal fee is 1% of the amount you wish to withdraw. The minimum fee is 1000 PED (100 USD). Your own bank might charge additional fees.*

ok now there are 1.000 people who will cash out 1000 ped each
mindark will earn 10.000 USD transaction fee

my bank charges me 50 cent to 1 usd per transaktion ... *side note

ok now lets say you are a uber who cycles 1 million ped with a return of 98%tt
thats 980.000 ped in return
20K straight in theyr pocket 20Kped is what 2K usd ?

actualy the business model benefits if people withdraw regular , that way they earn more and faster....

a uber is nothing @ all compared to the core community of entropia

since it is a closed system and % do never lie ....

who ever depo´s in this game gives mindark 1 % of the amount he did depo because ONE day SOMEONE will WITHDRAWAL this amount and pay the 1 %

....
next thing ... to make it even more "understandable" for people who cant think by theyr own

avarge return rate is 95% (we dont count any auction fees hereor anything else) soooo ... now lets say our server population does cycle 100 million peds a month
thats 95 million in return , thats 5 million ped straight in theyr pocket ... whats 5 million ? in usd 500.000 USD ?
now add auction fees, and withdrawal and you kinda get a slice of sence how much money mindark earns

what i want to say is :

it makes no diference @ all if you are uber or not or even free to play or trader or hunter,miner,crafter you name it
you are part of this community part of the system...

there is no such thing like : you are worthless because you dont depo, or dont hunt, or you are a reseller (the reincanation of the devil)

please just stop trying to find faults in other people, when the only fault is your short perspective

---------------

MindArk - Financial Reports

www.mindark.com

REVENUE MODEL Entropia Universe is a so-called “free-to-play” game, which means that the game is free to download and there is no monthly fee or anything like that. Instead, MindArk’s revenue is generated by microtransactions that occur when users choose to use various items or features in Entropia Universe. Like the real world, almost all types of activities in Entropia Universe are resource-intensive. Users switch from different currencies to Entropia Universe’s own internal currency, the PED (the PED has a fixed exchange rate against the USD, where 1 USD = 10 PED). The user then receives a corresponding amount of PED, calculated via European Central Bank’s daily dollar exchange rate, into their Entropia Universe account, which they can then use to purchase digital items such as weapons, cars or real estate. MindArk generates revenue through usage, wear and tear, auction fees (when items are purchased and sold between users) and also through direct sales (which include the sale of virtual items and properties, usually via auctions in Entropia Universe). MindArk also charges a withdrawal fee of 1% on all withdrawals (i.e. payment of local currency into the user’s bank account). The minimum withdrawal amount is 1000 PED, which is equivalent to 100 USD. On average, each user generates 1.3 USD in revenue per hour spent in Entropia Universe. This revenue per user has remained relatively stable over the last 10 years. Users are engaged not only in traditional computer game entertainment but also by the potential to make money through revenue-generating activities. This further contributes to increased activity in Entropia Universe and increased revenues for MindArk. Total deposits for an average depositing user over the user’s total active time in Entropia is more than 8000 USD. This group represents approximately 10% of Entropia Universe’s total active users. In 2022, the total deposits of the average paying user amounted to 2061 USD.

 

[Snowball101]

I played for over ten years, stopped depositing after PAYPAL went away as a payment option probably around 8 years ago. Used whatever I had to buy some CLD's and AUD's and just lived on that, popped in now and than and treated myself to some mingin or hunting.. This year the account got locked. So decided to just remove the game and move forward. Caveat Emptor.

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

I played for over ten years, stopped depositing after PAYPAL went away as a payment option probably around 8 years ago. Used whatever I had to buy some CLD's and AUD's and just lived on that, popped in now and than and treated myself to some mingin or hunting.. This year the account got locked. So decided to just remove the game and move forward. Caveat Emptor.

May I ask what your avatar name was?

I am asking because a normal response to a locked account would be to contact support and see why it was locked.

 

[M Rufen Power]

I played for over ten years, stopped depositing after PAYPAL went away as a payment option probably around 8 years ago. Used whatever I had to buy some CLD's and AUD's and just lived on that, popped in now and than and treated myself to some mingin or hunting.. This year the account got locked. So decided to just remove the game and move forward. Caveat Emptor.

Why not ask support to get your account back instead?

 

[_Lucid_]

As others have said, it's the overhead cost to get to sustainable returns. 80% eff and looter levels all around 30 and I'm at 90% tt return well over 10k loot instances in. I get that it could be worse, my kill count is small to some of you, and my looter levels aren't great, but that's kind of the dissuading factor. I have to look at how much I have to cycle to get a good looter level and how much will I lose in doing so. How much of that can I reasonably expect to make back in MU? Then I have to consider the possibility of the company going under while chasing sustainable returns. I still depo, but significantly less than I would if the gap between spend and returns were at a more sustainable level after MU.

 

[Krystan]

With 2.0 items, especially with the nano's, MA went in a direction that fully supports a restricted number of top players in the detriment of everybody else. Those that own a nano know it's power, it comes from the ability of farming a token event at a 3-4x rate higher then a non nano user, with the obvious result of those pulling always the most valuable items that indeed get sold to other players that deposit to buy them, ensuring high profitability for the nano user. Power creep is nothing new but in a RCE "game" like this ensures the constant succes of a top few over everybody else. As i said before it is probably needed for the "carrot" strategy MA employed in last 10 years, a strategy that probably works for them and rolls in enough deposits from the "donkeys" this is targeted for.
Now with the new direction MA took with TWEN event plentiful drops and especially with the unexpected amount of mayhem vendor resupplies the last few days that arrived at random times, they are trying, i think, to offset that power creep that favored so few and spread a bit the juice. Time will tell i guess...

 

[miseGXr]

Lack of content

 

[The Great Adventurer]

I'm concerned over what was said about the fact MindArk doesn't technically need to honor withdraws but they do it to keep trust. Considering they're valued at under $10M now (and trending downward) it's ripe for a company like Tencent to initiate a takeover, which I think is what they're truly after. What happens with withdraws then if they don't technically need to be honored now?

Withdraws only for me, at least until Unreal Engine 5 releases.

The time and opportunity cost simply don't make sense as well. Even if I were to deposit a few $100k and go for the top spot, I'd still need to sit at my computer +10 hours a day just to make use of that investment when there are far better ways outside Entropia that can net far better returns for far less time spent actively managing it.

Entropia has gone from a game to a business and this is why the 'soul of Entropia' everyone has fond memories of is gone. You simply can't sit down for a couple hours a day and expect to unlock new content or finish missions in a reasonable amount of time for a reasonable cost. As an example, most missions that reward anything decent cost +$200 in rake thus you're then left having to sell the item for +$200 to another avatar just to recoup the system losses. You may make $100 but you literally spent 100 hours grinding it out. It's simply not good business, unless you're on auto-play.

It's tough, they can't piss off the top economic contributors or we basically lose development but it's this very cycle that's got us into this trouble in the first place. We desperately need more population or this will never change but things need to change to get more population. Classic catch-22.

Catch-22 (logic) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[halftoasted]

The time and opportunity cost simply don't make sense as well. Even if I were to deposit a few $100k and go for the top spot, I'd still need to sit at my computer +10 hours a day just to make use of that investment when there are far better ways outside Entropia that can net far better returns for far less time spent actively managing it.

I dunno... When I compare EU investment to a landlord these days.. Im not sure that it's the entropian that get shafted

 

[Genlyk]

Severe lack of rare tokens.

 

[PE freak!!]

People don't deposit more because they don't afford. For example I don't have any money left, all I have is in ingame.If I need some I take out.If i want to deposit I withdraw and deposit again.I use the game as my bank with the fact that the money in my bank doesn't generate more money.Here it does.

The question is, would you ever spend the same amount of time at your local bank than you do in here ?

 

[jetsina]

Douglas Adams wrote about the character Arthur Dent not grasping the concept that Earth had been destroyed. It took something apparently small for it to sink in, that he would never again have a nice hot cup of tea.
I'm considering whether screwing up the deed history charts to only show from the Tuesday vu is 'my cup of tea'.
Being able to take something for granted is maybe something I've been taking for granted.
That MA can even mess up something like that, after whatever short problem the week before, is strongly affecting my desire to even log in and do the little routines I like to do.
Other contributory factors could be that there is Mayhem running in parallel, that I don't even want to set foot into this time round. It's a sort of avoidance mechanism maybe, but after all the big reasons for not wanting to deposit or deposit more, little things can still make up an incredible share of the pie of despair. Very British maybe, but there you are... cheers Arthur! Happy Easter everyone!

 

[ChronicDeadEye]

The "fun" left in Entropia is a wide as the universe and as deep as the thickness of an atom. They have slapped a hundred systems on to each other, with each new one becoming less of an improvement and more of a façade to hide the crumbling interior.

Also that MA has the ability to artificially increase, decrease, warp, obfuscate, (insert any other words of your liking) without any oversight. I always laugh to myself when, even in this thread, there is gaslighting about how easy it is to make money if you're smart, if you invest.... just end my fucking misery now if I have to read this nonsense again lol. Yes, most people with an IQ that allows them to tie their shoes are keenly aware of a nonzero chance to earn money, and they're also smart enough to realize the money earned is just a transfer of wealth from one individual to another, heavily skewed to the person who has the better gear (not to be confused with "investment" because many of the best items are gatekept). This is not a real life economy, and it's to the point where I feel like I'm living in the upside down whenever people try to use generic supply and demand type arguments. All of this folds into the ether when you have a literal "god" who can imagine anything they wish into the universe.

TLDR: Artificial inflation, lack of trust (among other things, but for simplicity) is why I won't deposit anything more than lunch money every 6months to a year. At that amount I can still play for fun if I manage to ignore the forums or rookie chat.. I failed this time around and got myself sucked into it though

 

[Jedliq]

Im in game around 12 years and loot 2.0 and efficiency is what killed the game for me.

Lack of UL weps and UL high eff weapons which creates its crazy prices is another very big reason. Im not crazy to pay fortune for stupid UL game item lol.

None of markup in hunting is also huge factor. Constant loosing peds in hunting and paying for MA owners to sit on gold this way is not for me

I basicly stopped hunting around 2 years ago. Well i depo for myhems atm, and its only place where i still hunt . But not for long anymore cuz every myhem i loose alot so its just matter of time till i stop doing myhems too which means ill stopp putting money in game.

Anothr reason for me is i switched to mining cuz hunting is the worst proffesion in the game atm in my opinion. And simply for mining i dont need to depo cuz compared to hunting i dont loose peds with mining.

So ye its everything about hunting become shit since loot 2.0 was implemented. It will make me stop doing depo into the game

 

[PreyNaika]

My highest loot is 1800 ped i am about to hit 250 HP. When i manage this i will Post a Screenshot

 

[NevadaJake]

Considering they're valued at under $10M now (and trending downward) it's ripe for a company like Tencent to initiate a takeover, which I think is what they're truly after.

The thought of this gives me anxiety.

 

[Snowball101]

U

Why not ask support to get your account back instead?

Did that as well. My message from them was something about being hacked, file a police report to know more, account locked sort of thing. I took it with a grain of salt and looked in my inventory online and seen it was pretty well wiped out. So 10 years anything can happen to your 'fun' in game wether you plan for it or not. I was struggling to just log in every few months to make sure it didn't go dormant heh more than anything. But bad that it happened and hope whever grabbed the stuff is enjoying it.
I received an email today from support saying my account was unlocked and the case was closed. Reloaded the game to get a visual seen it emptied etc. So could say alot but teh rules in here don't allow for much heh.. As I like to say you either pay to play or you are getting paid to play in games that involve rela money.

 

[robber]

My wife

I relate to this