The Speed of light might not be the speed limit...

There was a very clear paragraph of exactly why the error occured. There is absolutely no room for speculation, or the need for the repetition of 15000 experiments. The scienticians are probably pretty embarrassed about the whole ordeal.


If that's the case why doesnt the new scientist article that was released AFTER say the same? But instead say the general consessus is that noone really knows for sure what it is yet?


Don't believe every news story out there, we all know they lie to get hood drifts.

If it was the status, that story would be everywhere, but its not.

I don't understand those of you anywhere who are hell bent on trying to bury this thing prematurely just incase it changes physics as we know it.

There's a Shit load more we don't know about the universe, we acctually know pretty little. So just because something isn't possible based upon what we know doesn't by any streach of the definition make it impossible.

Just means its either an error or our knowledge of the universe is incomplete. And to find out what ones what the only way to find out is to look into it with an open mind, rather than letting what you want to see make you see something wrongly as fact.

As I said, if that article you refer to was fact the story would be everywhere, and its not, so clearly for now the case isn't closed and that probably isn't any more than a theroy from someone who is letting what they want to be true cloud their judgement.

When a conclusion is found that is widely seen as fact, it will be reported on everywhere in the science news world and perhaps beyond that too. Until that happens noone clearly knows for sure what the hell it was.
 
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If that's the case why doesnt the new scientist article that was released AFTER say the same? But instead say the general consessus is that noone really knows for sure what it is yet?


Don't believe every news story out there, we all know they lie to get hood drifts.

If it was the status, that story would be everywhere, but its not.

I don't understand those of you anywhere who are hell bent on trying to bury this thing prematurely just incase it changes physics as we know it.

There's a Shit load more we don't know about the universe, we acctually know pretty little. So just because something isn't possible based upon what we know doesn't by any streach of the definition make it impossible.

Just means its either an error or our knowledge of the universe is incomplete. And to find out what ones what the only way to find out is to look into it with an open mind, rather than letting what you want to see make you see something wrongly as fact.

As I said, if that article you refer to was fact the story would be everywhere, and its not, so clearly for now the case isn't closed and that probably isn't any more than a theroy from someone who is letting what they want to be true cloud their judgement.

When a conclusion is found that is widely seen as fact, it will be reported on everywhere in the science news world and perhaps beyond that too. Until that happens noone clearly knows for sure what the hell it was.

You are confusing your own uneducated opinion with factual evidence.


This exchange is over.

If anyone else has some genuine queries, pm me, as I will no longer answer them here.

/unsubscribe
 
What is the conclusion of this article then?
http://www.newscientist.com/article...heoryfest.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news

Also
Ultimately, it will take a great deal more time and scholarship before the physics community settles on the true explanation for the OPERA results. Until then, vigorous debate is likely to continue.




http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/10/mundane-explanations-neutrinos/


The case is far from closed...

If it was as clean cut as you seem to think it is, no more debate would be required would it...
 
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It sure wasn't one of their best days.

The test was not about measuring the speed of neutrinos. Particle physics people getting some aspect of relativity wrong is not something they or anybody else will lose sleep over.
 
A geosynchronous satellite travels faster (relative to the centre of the Earth) than the spot it is designed to be geosynched with.
Quick fact:
Geosynch satellite orbits at 680km above earth (i think, can't be bothered googling)
R earth=~6380k
r_earth+sat_orbit=6960km

Yeah, hence my rotating tire analogy.
 
Wondering myself, am I right if I bring this:

in one of the early articles on the subject, it was said there were a difference of 20 cm in the experience.
So 20 cm at the speed of light, how long does it take?
0.2/300000000=6.67x 10e-10 or 0.67 nano sec, that does not fit with the 60 nano seconds of difference.

Same while considering the speed of the reference frame in orbit vs frames on ground... I've not calculated this one, but intuitively the speed difference btw frames does not fit the 20 cm from firsts articles. (or 60 nanoseconds)

(not speaking of relativity here. Eventually, my 2 simple equations could be finetuned later by relativity effect)

Or what do I think wrong? a small difference would fit, but such a difference 10e-2 or something sounds less an approximation.

Edit: my bad, it was 20m difference, not 20 cm. But on the reference frame, anyone calculated if the speed makes the 60 nano seconds? I just seen orbit caractheristics.
 
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Well, okay E ≈ mc² or E = mc² + d ... where d is ridiculously small. They had it right within a margin of error. It's still bloody fast.

You mean of course E = m(c+d)² ;)

Still, admitting that I'm no scientist, I do not believe that the speed of light is the actual problem. I'm thinking quantum physics, uncertainty principle, entanglement, and so on and so forth involving weird stuff we don't really understand anyway.

There is of course also the possibility that we've just gotten the speed of light wrong. It is after all incredible hard to test when all is said. Perfect vacuum + guaranteed non curved space + incredible sensitive measuring equipment. We've come a long way, but I'd very much like to know how the exact speed of light has been determined anyway.
 
the implication about this experiment are huge, especially from a psychological point of view. We were used to think that nothing can move faster then light so no one has never even thinking a the possibility to space travel faster then light. This new experiment will change everything.
 
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Constant

You mean of course E = m(c+d)² ;)

Still, admitting that I'm no scientist, I do not believe that the speed of light is the actual problem. I'm thinking quantum physics, uncertainty principle, entanglement, and so on and so forth involving weird stuff we don't really understand anyway.

There is of course also the possibility that we've just gotten the speed of light wrong. It is after all incredible hard to test when all is said. Perfect vacuum + guaranteed non curved space + incredible sensitive measuring equipment. We've come a long way, but I'd very much like to know how the exact speed of light has been determined anyway.

The speed of light (c) is not subject to debate with regards measurement - It was derived theoretically (mathematically), initial experimental validation was almost superfluous. (Mercury's perihelion or something)

Current findings do not negate relativity, but reveal it's limitations. - Einstein did not know about virtual particles that give 'space' inherent potential - http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-scientists-vacuum.html...or he would have said; space=energy=matter and saved us from QED...love Feynman though :)
 
Just a little "f'ing told you so" bump, simply because it was on german tv news just a couple of minutes ago:

The CERN scientists confirmed that their initial claim that they discovered "subatomic particles travelling faster than light" was wrong - a not firmly attached cable caused a measurement error...
 
Just a little "f'ing told you so" bump, simply because it was on german tv news just a couple of minutes ago:

The CERN scientists confirmed that their initial claim that they discovered "subatomic particles travelling faster than light" was wrong - a not firmly attached cable caused a measurement error...

To add some accuracy to it all, its not quite conclusive yet, they still gotta do tests to confirm or deny the possiblility

Link: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21510-was-speeding-neutrino-claim-a-human-error.html

"After the release of the result, OPERA rechecked the parts of the system. It turns out we didn't have the right answer from this connector," says Stanco. "It is not clear what the state of the connector was when the data was collected," he adds.

The next step is to rerun the experiment with the connector working properly – something that will be done in May when CERN can provide a beam of neutrinos, says Stanco.

Which result is more likely? Stanco's personal belief is the second, cable explanation – because it fits with scientific expectation. But he admits that "the reality may be different". "I think we should distinguish between our beliefs and the results of our experiments," he says.

Its not over till further tests are made to provide either conclusive evidence or to provide evidence showing that wasnt the issue :)


Yet another misinformation fail of reporting by the mass media, great job guys!
 
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only thing known to be faster then the speed of light is me in bed -bazinga!
 
To add some accuracy to it all, its not quite conclusive yet, they still gotta do tests to confirm or deny the possiblility


The news article was absolutely unambiguous - they even provided the reason.
That some "tinfoil hats" see the disclaimer as much less valid than the initial claim is just sad.

"I want to believe", eh?
X files was a fictional series, not very clever to base your perception on trivial entertainment.


Its not over till further tests are made to provide either conclusive evidence or to provide evidence showing that wasnt the issue :)


Yet another misinformation fail of reporting by the mass media, great job guys!

Yeah, even when you're wrong you're still right... by definition i guess?




I envy those who manage to live in their own reality bubbly, live must be much more pleasant in there.
 
To add some accuracy to it all, its not quite conclusive yet, they still gotta do tests to confirm or deny the possiblility

That was the impression I got earlier today too.

But, truth be told, as soon as you discover your equipment or methodology is flawed your experiment is rendered invalid. The experiment is no longer evidence in favour of faster than light neutrinos. If they run the experiment again with fixed equipment and produce the a similar result then sure, but if you had to guess you'd have to go with Stanco's guess above really.
 
If I move my hand, and my hand is attached on my body that is on earth that rotates around the sun that rotates around the galaxy center that rotates around the galaxy custer center that rotates around something else maybe... what is the speed of my hand?
 
The news article was absolutely unambiguous - they even provided the reason.
That some "tinfoil hats" see the disclaimer as much less valid than the initial claim is just sad.

"I want to believe", eh?
X files was a fictional series, not very clever to base your perception on trivial entertainment.




Yeah, even when you're wrong you're still right... by definition i guess?




I envy those who manage to live in their own reality bubbly, live must be much more pleasant in there.

It's obvious its not conclusive till theres evidence to back this up through tests, there's no rush, we all have the time to wait till may where they will do the same tests with the equipmemt adjusted.

I don't see why your in such a rush to jump to a conclusion before they've had a chance to put this to the test.

As Stanco said, we should distinguish between our beliefs and the results of our experiments.
 
If I move my hand, and my hand is attached on my body that is on earth that rotates around the sun that rotates around the galaxy center that rotates around the galaxy custer center that rotates around something else maybe... what is the speed of my hand?

If you want an absolute speed without measuring it against any material objects, you have to measure it against a well known costant which is speed of light.

The Doppler effect (shifting in frequency spectrum dependent on if an object emiting the light is moving towards us or away from us) will be useful in this experiment, but i am afraid that actually capturing the real number would be very difficult because of our current instruments not providing enough precision.
 
If I move my hand, and my hand is attached on my body that is on earth that rotates around the sun that rotates around the galaxy center that rotates around the galaxy custer center that rotates around something else maybe... what is the speed of my hand?

That depends on the frame of reference and ranges from 0 to almost light speed.

It will, however, not reach the speed of light, let alone be faster.

It's obvious its not conclusive till theres evidence to back this up through tests, there's no rush, we all have the time to wait till may where they will do the same tests with the equipmemt adjusted.

I don't see why your in such a rush to jump to a conclusion before they've had a chance to put this to the test.


You have read what Jimmy B wrote?

The results of an invalid experiment are void, there is nothing to research anymore - and btw, they DID test, but were unable to confirm their initial "results".

As Stanco said, we should distinguish between our beliefs and the results of our experiments.

Funny that you direct this my way, my judgement is based on science - it is your judgement that's based on belief.
 
You are right. It depends on point of reference. But it can get close to light speed.

I wonder what the meaning of that may be... When speed gets close to light speed, strange things happen.
 
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