FYI: Tier rate, community experiment.

[Spinage]

Q: how quick do I unlock a tier?
A: I don't know any formula yet. 2 examples:
1) MarieWoodell: Vivo T5(L), 6.5 PEDs TT. Tier 1 unlock needs 4.5 PEDs TT. Tier factor: 150
2) Smoerble: Adapted Montgomery Anab.(L): 450/893 T. Tier 1 from 0.0 to 0.1 needed about 100 PEDs ammo. Tier factor 38

Been thinking about this:

T5(L) decays 1.607pec, so 0.01607 and 4.5 ped was spent, thats 280 uses to get one full tier, or 28 to get 10%

100 ped ammo through Montgomery Anab(L) adapted is about 769 uses to get 10% of a tier.


1/28 = 3.57% @ tier rate 150 to get 0.1
1/769 = 0.13% @ tier rate 38 to get 0.1

3.57%/150 = 0.0238% per 1 tier rate to get 0.1
0.13%/38 = 0.0034% per 1 tier rate to get to 0.1.


Now, this could mean that the 'per 1 tier rate' is static average (with variance because essentially it is random, or a non-linear formula, where each additional tier is worth more or less than the first.

Anyway, I would appreciate if you could just post here the exact decay it took you to get from tier 0-0.9 or 1 with the tier rate for tier 1. Thankyou

Here is a list of current data:

Graphs:
These won't be updated as often as the data above, but you can count the points on the graph and compare it to how many rows there are above to see when it was last updated.

So far we can see that as teh tier rate gets higher, the individual tier numbers seem to have less of an effect, meaning there won't just be a simple "average % per tier number", but instead a formula to get a good estimate. At the moment that formula appears to be:

0.001*(tier rate^0.751)

 

[Ze-Tomb Raider]

Will do, I got a T10 tieirng form Full TT atm. Not at T1 yet.

 

[Spinage]

Will do, I got a T10 tieirng form Full TT atm. Not at T1 yet.

That's great, as soon as it hits tier 1, record the TT value. Try not to use it even once after it hits tier 1.0. Thanks a lot

 

[Spinage]

Bump. I think if lots of people help this, it will be useful for everyone

 

[alh]

Nice, a thread about this.

I've got an of-105 with a quite low TIR (53), and I've just noticed it tiers up extremely fast... I reached Tier 0.4 in just 7 bombs. Have a screenshot of it getting two Tier increases in a row. will post it later.
and report back when I've dropped a few more bombs.

 

[Spinage]

Nice, a thread about this.

I've got an of-105 with a quite low TIR (53), and I've just noticed it tiers up extremely fast... I reached Tier 0.4 in just 7 bombs. Have a screenshot of it getting two Tier increases in a row. will post it later.
and report back when I've dropped a few more bombs.

Very interesting, could just be luck. From what I know it's basically random but with an average that it will steer towards. With lots of results from you people it will be easy to get an average o.o

 

[alh]

yes, a bit luck for sure.
Don't know how fast these tools usually tier up, maybe its normal.
Took 8 or 9 more bombs before .5 popped, and then it needed over 20 more before it got to .6

I'm just a leisure miner, so no more bombs for tonight. I'll update next time.

 

[Jay212]

yes, a bit luck for sure.
Don't know how fast these tools usually tier up, maybe its normal.
Took 8 or 9 more bombs before .5 popped, and then it needed over 20 more before it got to .6

I'm just a leisure miner, so no more bombs for tonight. I'll update next time.

Just out curiosity, what's the specific TIR numbers for your finder for tiers 4.0 and 5.0?

 

[Coop_]

H400 (L) Tier I rate = 1765, uses to Tier 1.0 = 97
Ukash Pistol (L) Tier I rate = 84, uses to Tier 1.0 = 852

 

[Spinage]

H400 (L) Tier I rate = 1765, uses to Tier 1.0 = 97
Ukash Pistol (L) Tier I rate = 84, uses to Tier 1.0 = 852

Ty..

I get 97/10 =9.7.. 1/9.7= 10.31%

10.31%/1765 = 0.005841% per tier level @ 1765... that 58.41 for this graph.


Second example:

852/10 =85.2 1/85.2 = 1.17%

1.17%/84 = 0.013928% per tier level @ 84. That's 139.28 for the graph.

 

[Spinage]

Graph has turned into a massive n shape.. which is interesting.

Either it means that it is actually going to be an n shape, where higher level tiers (like 1k+) have less effect per each addition 1 tier rate, kind of like skills.. or Coop's was particularly slow for that rate (unlucky).

Or, it could mean that it's actually a static average % per each tier, and it doesn't get better for higher tier numbers...

We will see in time, but the third option would be a lot easier to work out if it is that.

Hopefully more people with higher tier rates will enlighten us.

 

[Coop_]

Because of the variability (binomial distributions again ) you will need probably at least 100 points before a reliable pattern emerges.

Just guessing, I'd say either additional tier levels each add a constant % chance to tier, or a declining additional % chance to tier.

 

[Spinage]

Because of the variability (binomial distributions again ) you will need probably at least 100 points before a reliable pattern emerges.

Just guessing, I'd say either additional tier levels each add a constant % chance to tier, or a declining additional % chance to tier.

Yes, I am quickly getting used to the idea of a constant %.

It's just getting all the data, it's slow work.. If it is a constant %, the graph should show a fairly straight line when we have over 100.. even before that if it shows something like a ~ it will be conclusive enough.

If it isn't constant, I expect it to be like a skill gain graph...or QR gain graph.. sort of like a slanted 'r' where it is an upwards slope but levels off.

 

[Coop_]

Yes, I am quickly getting used to the idea of a constant %.

It's just getting all the data, it's slow work.. If it is a constant %, the graph should show a fairly straight line when we have over 100.. even before that if it shows something like a ~ it will be conclusive enough.

If it isn't constant, I expect it to be like a skill gain graph...or QR gain graph.. sort of like a slanted 'r' where it is an upwards slope but levels off.

If you graph just the % chance for .1 increase against TIR, I think you will end up with the slanted 'r'. Since by dividing by TIR you are essentially graphing the first derivative of the 'r' I think it will be a line or curve which slopes downward from left to right.

 

[Spinage]

If you graph just the % chance for .1 increase against TIR, I think you will end up with the slanted 'r'. Since by dividing by TIR you are essentially graphing the first derivative of the 'r' I think it will be a line or curve which slopes downward from left to right.

OK, doing this I am seeing a much better graph, I will edit first post now and delete all that other crap .

 

[Witte]

Just a thought, maybe your tier upgrader profession plays a role in how fast you tier up?

 

[Spinage]

Just a thought, maybe your tier upgrader profession plays a role in how fast you tier up?

Very possible, if so then this will be extremely hard to track, so for simplicities sake I am going to try and just get an average % per tier number and see if it makes sense (it could be dynamic too)

God I hope tier professions levels don't have an effect, mindddd fart.


Edit: First post completely rewritten and simplified.

 

[Spinage]

I am sturggling with which trendline to choose in excel. Power gives a straight line, logarithmic gives a typical QR type r line.

Anybody know why one you are supposed to use in this situation?

 

[Coop_]

I am sturggling with which trendline to choose in excel. Power gives a straight line, logarithmic gives a typical QR type r line.

Anybody know why one you are supposed to use in this situation?

I don't think there's a "supposed to" for the situation, only what seems to fit the data so far. The logarithmic function does very nicely at this point for first graph, but a couple more data points could blow that out of the water and make a straight line the better fit.

 

[Spinage]

I don't think there's a "supposed to" for the situation, only what seems to fit the data so far. The logarithmic function does very nicely at this point for first graph, but a couple more data points could blow that out of the water and make a straight line the better fit.

The solution I think is to have a second graph (as seen in op now) of individual % per 1 tier. If this graph is a horrizontal straight line, the top graph should be linear (/ shape y=mx and all that). If the second graph is an upwards slope, the first graph will be exponential (_/) and if it is a downwards slope, the first graph will be as it is now, logarithmic 'r'.

More data needed still though, so this is kind of a bump

 

[alh]

I've got a MF-103 too, and it has a TIR for Tier1 of 57.
It was a bit slow in the beginning, but picked up speed later.
Both the OF-105 (53) and the MF-103 (57) hit Tier 0.8 at 82 drops.
out of bombs and time to play atm, bbl

 

[Spinage]

I've got a MF-103 too, and it has a TIR for Tier1 of 57.
It was a bit slow in the beginning, but picked up speed later.
Both the MF-103 (53) and the MF-103 (57) hit Tier 0.8 at 82 drops.
out of bombs and time to play atm, bbl

So, you got from 0.1-0.8 in exactly 82 bombs both times on each mf103? Seems too fast so I think I misunderstood... did it take 82 bombs just to get from 0.7-0.8?

 

[alh]

exactly 82 drops to go from 0.0 to 0.8, for both the MF-103 and the OF-105 (sorry wrote wrong in the post). Got a two gains in a row once on the MF-103 too.
And once I got one on the OF, and then one on the MF on the next drop.
I'm amazed at the speed too, thought it would take a lot longer to tier them up.
Is it location "dynamic" like everything else in here maybe?

Was lucky in general on the run, came back with 140% TT or so, and had lots of skill gains. No globals but two 30+ peds and a couple of 10-14 ped, and good hit rate (didn't calculate it exactly though)

 

[Spinage]

exactly 82 drops to go from 0.0 to 0.8, for both the MF-103 and the OF-105 (sorry wrote wrong in the post). Got a two gains in a row once on the MF-103 too.
And once I got one on the OF, and then one on the MF on the next drop.
I'm amazed at the speed too, thought it would take a lot longer to tier them up.
Is it location "dynamic" like everything else in here maybe?

Was lucky in general on the run, came back with 140% TT or so, and had lots of skill gains. No globals but two 30+ peds and a couple of 10-14 ped, and good hit rate (didn't calculate it exactly though)

Ok thanks for your data... that's extremely fast for tier 53 and 57..

 

[Coop_]

exactly 82 drops to go from 0.0 to 0.8, for both the MF-103 and the OF-105 (sorry wrote wrong in the post). Got a two gains in a row once on the MF-103 too.

I think you should only accept data from 0.0-0.9 for UL and 0.0-1.0 for L. The shorter the test, the more variability you will get.

 

[Spinage]

I think you should only accept data from 0.0-0.9 for UL and 0.0-1.0 for L. The shorter the test, the more variability you will get.

Yes, that is probably a good idea, that is what I ask for in OP anyway. I guess that on top of less variance, People have a better idea at exactly 0.9 and 1... as it is a 'milestone' and people pay more attention (not drop more bombs etc after 0.4, or guestimate etc).

 

[alh]

Ok, thought I f*d up a bit first, but reading coops post, it might not be so bad.

Thought I would get another chat notification when it reached 1.0 but I only noticed the message notification much later.
Did I get that already when I reached 0.9?
I'm such a tier noob
Thought I missed it...

But luckily I wrote down the number for 0.9, MF-103 reached it in 113 drops, and OF-105 in 107 drops.

I noticed the messages when I had dropped about 132 bombs/probes.

Summary
OF-105 (TIR1: 53), 0.0-0.9 in 107 drops
MF-103 (TIR1: 57), 0.0-0.9 in 113 drops

 

[Coop_]

Ok, thought I f*d up a bit first, but reading coops post, it might not be so bad.

Thought I would get another chat notification when it reached 1.0 but I only noticed the message notification much later.
Did I get that already when I reached 0.9?
I'm such a tier noob
Thought I missed it...

But luckily I wrote down the number for 0.9, MF-103 reached it in 113 drops, and OF-105 in 107 drops.

I noticed the messages when I had dropped about 132 bombs/probes.

Summary
OF-105 (TIR1: 53), 0.0-0.9 in 107 drops
MF-103 (TIR1: 57), 0.0-0.9 in 113 drops

I think I did get a message when my first opalo reached .9, but can't remember getting one for the second--might have missed it, or maybe you only get the first one?

Nice that you recorded the .9 numbers. Amazing fast for that TIR. I wonder if tiering is somehow related to ped spent? Though I guess then the OF should tier quite a bit faster than the MF, or were they amped?

 

[alh]

No amps involved.
Is ammo/bombs/probes really counted?
If you look at decay spend its 1.6965 PED for the MF and 2.1935 PED for the OF, so OF was a bit slower if you count that.

 

[Spinage]

No amps involved.
Is ammo/bombs/probes really counted?
If you look at decay spend its 1.6965 PED for the MF and 2.1935 PED for the OF, so OF was a bit slower if you count that.

Random idea: could you please post a screenshot of the tier levels for both of your finders.. or just type them. I mean the tier rate for each level, not just tir 1.

You tiered them both so fast I am starting to think that perhaps tier 0.1 goes of tier 1 rates, tier 0.2 goes of tier 2 etc. Just a random thought, most likely completely false.

Also, what's your tier upgrader level? It's just, your numbers and your tier speed is so .. out of whack with anything I have heard.. and for it to happen twice, I feel there is definitely an unknown factor we aren't considering.