TT prices shud be fixed with last year average ones

Dan59

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TT price for items you can buy from terminal prices are real prices.
TT price for item u cant never get from TT is pure fiction ( not to say fake ).
So calculating fee on markup based on unreal , not aplicable , not existent TT price is wrong.
If there is buyer who is traying to buy imk2 from you for 1.000,00 peds how wud you call that buyer. In case of MA you cant use such names. Instead you can supose that hunting and spending tousand peds you will get one ?
This example is not good enought becouse its about wery rare item but in EU we have many other items you can get by hunting, crafting, mining .. with the same unreal wrong TT price.
TT shud be cost to get one by your actions and markup will pay lazy ones who are willng to pay instead to buy at TT or instead of geting that item by themselfs by hunting, crafting, mining ...

So in good or bad MA fixed Auction.

Now is time to fix TT prices and credibility of real cash economy.

How you expect to calculate fee on priceless items ( estate for example )

TT prices shud be fixed with last year average ones.
 

Violet

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I dont mean to sound rude but i dont have a clue what you are talking aboit ? :confused:
 

sHoCkWaVe

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ive read it 3 times and still no clue :confused:
 

kygon

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Violet said:
I dont mean to sound rude but i dont have a clue what you are talking aboit ? :confused:

u beat me to it ;)

is it a cryptic puzzle?
 

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Dom_sufc

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Hehe, so Im not the only one. I read It a few times earlier, and thought If I posted It was a mystery to me, that I'd look daft! Obviously not! hehe.

Translation please! :wise:

EDIT: Where'd ya get 10k EFD from? :D
 

CareBear

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Ok... If I have this correct... He thinks MA should adjust all tt prices of items in game to the average market value for the item from last year. If I'm understanding you correct.... lol... you apparently don't understand what market value really is & the obvious answer as to why MA would never do that.
 

muttley

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i think hes saying tt prices of any given item shud be an average of what that item is being sold for, correct me if im wrong

if im right i think its a very bad idea as this means prices will only ever increase as tt is the lowest price u will pay, who would pay less

i hope im wrong in what your suggesting
 

aridash

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im not sure the OP knows what he's on about either. at least he doesnt seem to understand the concept of the TT value being what MA will give you at the TT for any given item, irrespective of what other avatars might value the item at.
 

Igorl

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CareBear said:
Ok... If I have this correct... He thinks MA should adjust all tt prices of items in game to the average market value for the item from last year. If I'm understanding you correct.... lol... you apparently don't understand what market value really is & the obvious answer as to why MA would never do that.

Oh, so that was the point... :)

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CareBear said:
Ok... If I have this correct... He thinks MA should adjust all tt prices of items in game to the average market value for the item from last year. If I'm understanding you correct.... lol... you apparently don't understand what market value really is & the obvious answer as to why MA would never do that.
Yes, I think it's what he ment to say, and I also think it doesn't make any sense. MA should not try to set market prices playing with TT values. Players are supposed to do that. It's how the market functions, Dan!
 

Dan59

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CareBear said:
Ok... If I have this correct... He thinks MA should adjust all tt prices of items in game to the average market value for the item from last year. If I'm understanding you correct.... lol... you apparently don't understand what market value really is & the obvious answer as to why MA would never do that.

In RL value of an item is initial price + value aded + interests or ther expenses and that rapresent new price.
You pay taxes on that difference between initial price and selling price.
If buyer of that item aditionaly work on it ( repairing, ading parts, bestowning it or by other actions adding value) he add new walue and he will sell for higher price to get his work paid. Now he pay taxes on difference between buying price and selling price and not taxes on difference between initial price and selling price. Initial price become obsolete for any reference and for any understanding of real value of that item.

Now with all forums about auction fee refference to TT (initial) price become questionable.
When resource supplyer decide to give less resources ( a lot less then actual demand ) we have inflation spyral to go up and with that new prices.
Let say 20 years a go oil was at 16 usd ( like initial price or TT in EU ) and you paid for it 40 USD two weeks a go. Now when u tray to sell it at 45 USD you will be taxed on 5 USD ( difference between buy and sell price) and not on 29 USD what will be 45 USD - TT price.

You are right MA will newer do it. They will keep all pices of cake even if they cause fake inflation by resource supply control.
In EU we have weapon with 20.000 ped TT price or for example 1000 ped imk2 TT price or 0,00 ped estate, hangar TT price but if you look at market price of those items TT become quite funny and auction fee on maret price -0,00 too.
ON other hand i dont see reason that an estate TT price remain 0,00 after you input ..... in EU to buy it. Ok EULA - MA is owner of all but then all items can easily have 0,00 as TT.
 

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Dan59 said:
TT price for items you can buy from terminal prices are real prices.
TT price for item u cant never get from TT is pure fiction ( not to say fake ).
So calculating fee on markup based on unreal , not aplicable , not existent TT price is wrong.
If there is buyer who is traying to buy imk2 from you for 1.000,00 peds how wud you call that buyer. In case of MA you cant use such names. Instead you can supose that hunting and spending tousand peds you will get one ?
This example is not good enought becouse its about wery rare item but in EU we have many other items you can get by hunting, crafting, mining .. with the same unreal wrong TT price.
TT shud be cost to get one by your actions and markup will pay lazy ones who are willng to pay instead to buy at TT or instead of geting that item by themselfs by hunting, crafting, mining ...

So in good or bad MA fixed Auction.

Now is time to fix TT prices and credibility of real cash economy.

How you expect to calculate fee on priceless items ( estate for example )

TT prices shud be fixed with last year average ones.

Actually I think his main point is this, Imp 21 has a full TT value of 500 ped when repaired, so if you hunt Merp and lose 500 ped then you should loot an Imp 21, as an example if the Imp 21 sold for 5K on auction (low I know) then the TT value should be raised to 5K and so you would have to lose 5K on Merp before you loot an Imp 21. This way the only people who paid more than 5K would be the people who didn't want to hunt for one. This clearly would not work and would cause the economy to crash in just a short while.

Not the clearest of threads but I can kind of see what he is saying.
 

Igorl

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Blah Blah

Dan59 said:
Now with all forums about auction fee refference to TT (initial) price become questionable.
When resource supplyer decide to give less resources ( a lot less then actual demand ) we have inflation spyral to go up and with that new prices.
Let say 20 years a go oil was at 16 usd ( like initial price or TT in EU ) and you paid for it 40 USD two weeks a go. Now when u tray to sell it at 45 USD you will be taxed on 5 USD ( difference between buy and sell price) and not on 29 USD what will be 45 USD - TT price.

Yep, but there is a significant difference between real oil and that PE one.


Real oil: is actually there - seen it in raw form in my chemistry class in highschool. Could not help myself so I light it up for a sec - left an ugly stain on the ceiling and made me richer by a teachers official repremand. So - it has virtually endless applications and known and unchangable properties.

Pe oil: there is nothing there, nada zilch - you cant smell it, you cant touch it, burn it, cant make gasoline, cant earn you a reprimand etc. You can only hope that PE God manefested as MA does not change is properties and application.


Those are facts. There are those of more importance to this thread, but since those were already discussed 1000s of times... no reason to repeat :)


And yeah - TT price on REAL OIL is 0. In writing: ZERO, OU, NILL, NULL
Try to figure that out ;) Remember - no TT in real world, yada yada yada...


I.
 

Dan59

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Igorl said:
Yep, but there is a significant difference between real oil and that PE one.


Real oil: is actually there - seen it in raw form in my chemistry class in highschool. Could not help myself so I light it up for a sec - left an ugly stain on the ceiling and made me richer by a teachers official repremand. So - it has virtually endless applications and known and unchangable properties.

Pe oil: there is nothing there, nada zilch - you cant smell it, you cant touch it, burn it, cant make gasoline, cant earn you a reprimand etc. You can only hope that PE God manefested as MA does not change is properties and application.


Those are facts. There are those of more importance to this thread, but since those were already discussed 1000s of times... no reason to repeat :)


And yeah - TT price on REAL OIL is 0. In writing: ZERO, OU, NILL, NULL
Try to figure that out ;) Remember - no TT in real world, yada yada yada...


I.

Remember - taxes (like auction fee ) only on value aded in real world, yada yada yada...
 

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Dan59 said:
Remember - taxes (like auction fee ) only on value aded in real world, yada yada yada...

Do you know how money works in real life ?
I bet you don't.

Don't worry it isn't your fault.
Very few know and it is wise to keep the majority of the population in this state of ignorance.

Just a hint: value isn't dependent of money.
 

Dan59

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MG Mighty said:
Do you know how money works in real life ?
I bet you don't.

Don't worry it isn't your fault.
Very few know and it is wise to keep the majority of the population in this state of ignorance.

Just a hint: value isn't dependent of money.

You mean that now i shud understand why auction fee is calculated nearly on whole walue of item instead on profit only?
 

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Perhaps if he wrote it in his native language someone could transalte and we could identify what he is trying to say?

Grounder
 

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Awesome I hope MA implements this, then I will go out and deposit a million PED and collect every uber item in the game by losing a certain amount on a mob and then BAM guranteed delivery.

This is not the brightest idea in the world. The whole reason why we have markup value my friend is that not everyone will loot one. If we could just run out and lose a certain amount then suddenly we loot one everyone would have an ml-35/45 everyone would have shadow/angel/eon/supremacy/chronicle/vain and I would find gold with every bomb drop and make 50 million 2600's and bono shades.


No offense meant but I am really beginning to wonder if people think before they speak. With threads like this and others like "my sweat is worth more than 1.0 because it took me a long time to get it" I really wonder if people think about anything on a grand scale or if they just try to twist facts and events to further benefit themselves. Not everything is going to work in a manner that allows you to have everything you want.

Take care and best of luck to you.
 

aridash

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Dan59 said:
Let say 20 years a go oil was at 16 usd ( like initial price or TT in EU ) and you paid for it 40 USD two weeks a go. Now when u tray to sell it at 45 USD you will be taxed on 5 USD ( difference between buy and sell price) and not on 29 USD what will be 45 USD - TT price.

k, lets use your analogy to explain things. oil doesnt "cost" $45 today and it didnt "cost" $16 20 years ago. This is the market value, or what a trader is willing to pay. the actuall cost could be anything $1 to $30 depending on where its from and how it is extracted. lets for our purposes say that it costs an oil company, on average, $10 to extract and transport a barrel of oil to a refinery. that is the minimum they will therefore sell it. now consider the refinery business, owned and run by the oil company, it knows it can source oil for $10 so it wont pay any more either. theres your tt price.
 

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aridash said:
k, lets use your analogy to explain things. oil doesnt "cost" $45 today and it didnt "cost" $16 20 years ago. This is the market value, or what a trader is willing to pay. the actuall cost could be anything $1 to $30 depending on where its from and how it is extracted. lets for out purposes say that it costs an oil company, on average, $10 to extract and transport a barrel of oil to a refinery. that is the minimum they will therefore sell it. now consider the refinery business, owned and run by the oil company, it knows it can supply oil for $10 so it wont pay any more either. theres your tt price.

Wrong
it maybe be forced to sell for less than it costed to produced in demand is low and debts must be payed. It is just like this they took a chance that oil would sell for more and started a drill attempt in a high maintenace area in a frost wasteland and the next year a major oil producer decide to increase the output by 1000% flooding the market.
They would be forced to stop their operations and to sell what they already had produced for the best offer which could be less than the cost of production.

There is no TT in real life.
In real life there are buyers and sellers which will pay accordingly to offer and demand. Taking chances on how the future will bring new.
 

Dan59

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Maybe to form question on another way.
Hot discusions were on auction fee.
If one item is selling at 80k and up ( and reselling ) and have TT value of 1k peds do you think that TT is rgiht? That item was never sold for TT price until now.
And do you think that fee on 80k -1k is right. And if new owner sell it one day let say for less ?
There exist weapon with TT value of 20k and weapon with TT value 1k (like imk2) both have wery high market price.
That is big diffrence in TT for unknown reason and difference in auction fee too.
Nobody will put those items on auction at TT price because TT price is too low.Do you think that TT price rapresent right value of those items and corresponding auction fee?
 

aridash

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MG Mighty said:
There is no TT in real life.
In real life there are buyers and sellers which will pay accordingly to offer and demand. Taking chances on how the future will bring new.


it was just an illustration. one that actually works well since it is a product in very high demand and utterly improbable to flood the market (the production capacity is not there even if the oil is in the ground). note the average price is what is effectivly the tt value. to work back to EU, oil from the rig is still only valued at 1pec tt, but it probably costs more than that to actually get at it.


Real world items do have intrinsic underlying values that vary very little.
 

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I think hes saying make an imk2 hold a tt value of 100k....which of course is just wrong.

think about it...100k you prob would not be forced to repair it for a long long time. What would that do to the economy? well an imk2 user would have that much more profit..and MA wouldnt be getting paid according to the statements they made. Then also consider imk2 with tt 100/100k sells for the 100k price already set...buyer pays 199.9k total?

Also....we own the value of the items....tt only....so if MA somehow fails more than likely we would be refunded the tt values of our inventorys, no way they would pay out more than they have vested already. (Was stated we own the value even though we dont own the item itself, just not up to searching for it)

Plus they would constantly need to worry about changing them as the economy changes....and that would be way to much work when the auction and economy already does that.
 

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Dan59 said:
If one item is selling at 80k and up ( and reselling ) and have TT value of 1k peds do you think that TT is rgiht? That item was never sold for TT price until now.

Does it matter? If I have a gun I can get 80k PEDs if I sell it I wont mind a fee of 100,5ped. (The maximum fee on auction is the base fee of 0,5PED+market % fee of 100PED). :dunce:
 

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Dropping in, Dan...I'm still unclear on the "why".

As in "why" mess with TT value?

Sure, something's only worth 10 ped to the Trade Terminal but 1000 ped on the open market.

What's the problem?

Do you want the Trade Terminal to be your sales staff? A TT sales department that can garuntee your item will sell at the price afew people thought it was worth a year ago?

That'd be swell. I've got alot of sweat bottles that I'd rather TT at last years value than sell on todays market.
 

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I think somebody's reselling business took a kick in the nuts with the new auction prices (exactly what they were intended to do). Now we have a guy trying to say any incomprehensible thing he can to justify making the part of the sale that is taxed as small as possible. Transparent GREED :rolleyes:

The argument presented by the OP is totally whack for a whole host of reasons already stated.
 
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