FYI: Underground deeds MU manipulation

[Angel O2 Mercer]

Hey guys,

Just putting this out here for general knowledge:

<someone> just put on auction one underground deed for 8500 PED, it sold in less than 5 seconds (magically, wow what a wizard !!!), and minutes later put for sale a package of 10 deeds.

I really hope we do not see a thread in the next few hours like "I bought one deed for 8500 ped help me !!".

<removed> I will also create a support ticket with screenshots and timestamps.

Don't get fooled by the MU jump, we all know this has been done countless times.

Cheers.

This happened today at arround 13:34 MA time.


Thumbs up for the forum rules, PM me if you want more info about this particular matter.

 

[Serica]

/mod note/
The avatar name is not relevant, and such accusations lead to flaming and other less desirable forum behaviour.

However the warning and information about the effect on auction pricing is useful. Let's keep discussion to that, ok?

 

[HardWrath]

I'd like to know that name. **Edit: I have the name now.

I'm not saying that it was or wasn't manipulation but sometimes people will need to transfer PED to or from their wife's account, or whatever, and they only have on computer that they share. Usually people will do it with something stupid like an animal hide.

It could have been something like that, maybe, but in this case I doubt it.

Regardless though, I don't think it will affect AUD prices very much, if at all... Especially long term.

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

I'm not saying that it was or wasn't manipulation but sometimes people will need to transfer PED to or from their wife's account, or whatever, and they only have on computer that they share. Usually people will do it with something stupid like an animal hide.

Terms of Service, section 8, point "o".

o. You may not interfere in any way with the virtual economy of Entropia Universe and/or with other Participants’ ability to use or enjoy the auction system or any other trading system in Entropia Universe. The foregoing includes, without limitations, the prohibition of manipulation or cause to manipulate statistical data, directly or indirectly. This prohibitions includes, without limitation, prohibition of price manipulation and/or price fixing regarding virtual items on the auction system.

Even if he's transfering funds, he is artificially inflating price and thus counts as market manipulation. And he is not, how convenient that minutes later puts his deeds for sale, how convenient.

 

[Haruto Rat]

Please PM the avatar name (and soc name if known), TIA.

 

[Svarog]

Nothing special, just another day in our best of all possible worlds.

PM the name, please

 

[the_prophet]

This is the reason why MA doesnt give out their avatar name list...

 

[RedThothCrowley]

This is the reason why MA doesnt give out their avatar name list...

This has nothing to do with MA. It's just another scumbag maneuver in a long series of questionable deeds by someone who gives this game a bad name.

 

[HardWrath]

Even if he's transfering funds, he is artificially inflating price and thus counts as market manipulation. And he is not, how convenient that minutes later puts his deeds for sale, how convenient.

Valid point.

The whole concept of price manipulation is a fools errand in my opinion. Aside from risking your account due to EULA/ToS issues, as well as reputation damage, it just such a hassle and not worth it.

There are much easier ways to make PED.

 

[ermik]

It must be hard not beeing able to sell AUD´s that he bought due to a sellers auction mistake ( so he got them for like 1 ped each or even less )

so hard infact , that he must manipulate MU

Its one thing having a hard thick skin and declaring ppls mistakes as their own and for others to exploit, fine. But what he is doing now is actually grounds for a ban, so long easy money, dont let the door hit you on your way out.

 

[the_prophet]

This has nothing to do with MA. It's just another scumbag maneuver in a long series of questionable deeds by someone who gives this game a bad name.

What do you know?

Maybe its MA who wants to cover up any indications of any of the deed projects failing, since they have 2 new such deed projects released (CPD, BAD)?


Since they are free to do what they wish, with absolutely no external control over their actions,..

 

[melander]

What do you know?

Maybe its MA who wants to cover up any indications of any of the deed projects failing, since they have 2 new such deed projects released (CPD, BAD)?


Since they are free to do what they wish, with absolutely no external control over their actions,..

Im going to say this as clearly as possible so shit dosnt get confused for the 100th time:

Ma would not need a avatar to manipulate ingame variables if they wanted to, your arguments are pointless.


On topic:
This scumbag should really get the EULA dropped on him .

+rep to angel for bringing this to our attention.

Best regards
Zweshi

 

[HardWrath]

I'd also like to know the name of the alt avatar he is using.

 

[Norbert]

Manipulation has happened for years and will continue to, i dislike it also but where real money is involved greed comes into play. Just be savvy and check history graph, when you see the graph has an unreal peak .... ie 8.5K as apposed to 46-48 then you know it's manipulation.

Check graphs on most things and you will see it.

Dibbler


BTW i can't be bothered to manipulate, but if a price sticks and people buying i will list at what i can get as we all would. "A fool and his money are easily parted." as a proverb in uk says.

 

[the_prophet]

Im going to say this as clearly as possible so shit dosnt get confused for the 100th time:

Ma would not need a avatar to manipulate ingame variables if they wanted to, your arguments are pointless.


On topic:
This scumbag should really get the EULA dropped on him .

+rep to angel for bringing this to our attention.

Best regards
Zweshi

Lol am I speaking in chinese or you can't think two steps ahead???

MA can have their avatars - they do not have to disclose the names;


- XxMrManipulatorxX manipulates AUD MU, MA turns a blind eye, that is that.

So XxMrManipulatorxX takes the blame, MA's hands are washed.


If they go and tinker the MU by themselves, their action is seen in official logs, if ever the situation for those logs to be checked for some reason occurs, there are evidence for manipulation.... so why bother?


Why not just make the XxwhateverxX avatar and let him take the fall for it, they get what they want anyway,...



sry m8, your arguments are invalid as you say...

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

Keep it civil so we don't get the thread closed.

Ticket was made, it will get an automated response and get closed. But hey, what else can we do.

It doesn't bother me, karma gets everyone in the end.

 

[Harmony.]

blah blah blah

Good too see you've still got your tin foil hat on

 

[Falagor]

Am I the only one who realises that markup connected with deeds is screwed badly since like 6 months (or more) after certain update (that switched listing view from 99999...% to +X value)?

Example: if someone lists 10 AUDs at +470peds and they get sold - history will be marked as item sold for 470peds...

It could have been ~180 AUDs sold for 8.5k and it would leave same spike...

So basicly consderig this problem - market value history manipulation on Deeds is non existant as long this is not fixed...

Falagor

 

[Svarog]

Am I the only one who realises that markup connected with deeds is screwed badly since like 6 months (or more) after certain update (that switched listing view from 99999...% to +X value)?

It was fixed few VUs back and now all deeds display correct MU no matter of amount in stack been sold.

 

[melander]

...

If you knew how TCP/IP architecture works or what is actually in a log file for that matter you would understand why what you just suggested is horse shit .

Sorry for the off-topicness happening here, ill drop it now.

Cheers!
Zweshi

 

[mastermesh]

this kinda thing happens with ped transfers all the time... that's why you should not use recent market history to judge everything.

 

[Neil Stockton]

Terms of Service, section 8, point "o".



Even if he's transfering funds, he is artificially inflating price and thus counts as market manipulation. And he is not, how convenient that minutes later puts his deeds for sale, how convenient.

I disagree. The market manipulation rule is useless because it is vague. Some forms of market manipulation are completely acceptable. For example, if a planet is sold out of a certain mineral and I set my selling price high, that is market manipulation because the price the forms a baseline for other sellers. If I set a high order, that is market manipulation. But these situations are completely fine, it's just the nature of a free market.

If you want to be technical about it, every single transaction you ever make can be defined as market manipulation.

Some forms of market manipulation should be outlawed but to be honest I'd rather see them give us tools to prevent accidental bidding or listings. The 8500 ped purchase may have been someone who accidentally bid his whole ped card by misclicking.

 

[Coz1969]

Am I the only one who realises that markup connected with deeds is screwed badly since like 6 months (or more) after certain update (that switched listing view from 99999...% to +X value)?

Example: if someone lists 10 AUDs at +470peds and they get sold - history will be marked as item sold for 470peds...

It could have been ~180 AUDs sold for 8.5k and it would leave same spike...

Actually, they recently fixed this problem for the AUD's and CLD's. They now correctly show markup, in PED value, for a SINGLE deed. OFC, I haven't been able to play yet this week, so this recent VU could have stuffed everything up again. LOL


Edit: I see Svarog already replied to this, but I will leave my post to emphasize this... basically if there is an 8.5k ped spike on the market value for the AUD's , then that was for the sale of ONE deed.

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

I disagree. The market manipulation rule is useless because it is vague. Some forms of market manipulation are completely acceptable. For example, if a planet is sold out of a certain mineral and I set my selling price high, that is market manipulation because it's then used as a baseline for other sellers. If I set a high order, that is market manipulation. But these situations are completely fine, it's just the nature of a free market.

If you want to be technical about it, every single transaction you ever make can be defined as market manipulation.

Some forms of market manipulation should be outlawed but to be honest I'd rather see them give us tools to prevent accidental bidding or listings. The 8500 ped purchase may have been someone who accidentally bid his whole ped card by misclicking.

Neil, it's not rocket science. If you list an item 200 times over MU and buy it with a secondary account it IS market manipulation.

If it was someone else who accidentally bid on it it's even worse. I hope that is not the case. And it's also not the first time I catch this from him either.

 

[Xen]

I disagree. The market manipulation rule is useless because it is vague. Some forms of market manipulation are completely acceptable. For example, if a planet is sold out of a certain mineral and I set my selling price high, that is market manipulation because it's then used as a baseline for other sellers. If I set a high order, that is market manipulation. But these situations are completely fine, it's just the nature of a free market.

If you want to be technical about it, every single transaction you ever make can be defined as market manipulation.

That's not manipulation.

: to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage

: to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose

 

[the_prophet]

If you knew how TCP/IP architecture works or what is actually in a log file for that matter you would understand why what you just suggested is horse shit .

Sorry for the off-topicness happening here, ill drop it now.

Cheers!
Zweshi

Since I happen to work for an ISP, please, do explain to me how TCP/IP architecture works and after you're done, tell me how that is connected with MA manipulating ingame MU or them having an avatar with which they would do that instead, while acting as a "regular" player..

And another thing,...what do you know about what MA's logs show or not?


....

 

[HardWrath]

Since I happen to work for an ISP, please, do explain to me how TCP/IP architecture works and after you're done, tell me how that is connected with MA manipulating ingame MU or them having an avatar with which they would do that instead, while acting as a "regular" player..

And another thing,...what do you know about what MA's logs show or not?


....

Or we can just explain the concept of posting on topic.

And to help get us back on topic.. I know the name of the person in question here and he isn't a MA employee trying to inflate prices as you suggested. In fact the majority of what he does causes the market value data to show artificially low prices. Your conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.

 

[the_prophet]

Or we can just explain the concept of posting on topic.

Irrelevant

Well played.

 

[melander]

Since I happen to work for an ISP, please, do explain to me how TCP/IP architecture works and after you're done, tell me how that is connected with MA manipulating ingame MU or them having an avatar with which they would do that instead, while acting as a "regular" player..

And another thing,...what do you know about what MA's logs show or not?


....

I know the general gist of whats in MA's server side logs not because i have seen them but because i have experience in this field. To perform certain functions they need a certain dataset of information else they could not perform such actions, this means that specific information must be logged and stored for atleast a certain amount of time.

This will be my last response since this conversation is obviously futile.

Best regards
Zweshi

 

[Biller]

MA, fix the problem of multiple accounts, then auction manipulation problem gets fixed automatically.