What happened to the acused Bot users?

[Optima]

Consider this post a vote of support for public disclosure of the results.

I also want to ask, but am in no way accusing, if anyone knows that this Huntrezz avatar is someone other than HunterZ in sheep's clothing? I don't remember seeing the name much before the multiple ubers recently, and the name similarity is striking.

Afaik "Huntrezz" is danish and teaming with a player i know to be Danish for sure in the hofpics posted on EF (and if youre keeping low profile then why the fuq post screenies here?...) Not sure what the full name is (i.e. if there are 2 "Huntrezz" ingame?) but id imagine a Danish person to notice if her teammate is from the "Riga" or from Denmark?...
If im wrong please correct me though Someone from "Danish Elites"-soc should know for sure?

 

[extoo]

1. I don't think there is any doubt that banned players are back in EU using other avatars, posiibly even avatars they had from waaaaaaaaaay back. I also would not be surprised if they aren't borrowing some nice uber items from old friends and soc mates either.

2. Permaban, calculate the TT value of all items plus peds on the card and give total value of that back to them. No marlkups on items, no lawsuit, no hassles... end of story, case closed.

3. Completely agree we need a statement from MA, sooner rather than later. If they are back in game even after 6 months or a year I and many others will be gone quicker than you can say "cash out". Anyone who has ever played an online game which has hack/bot issues and a weak dev team will know why. It just becomes so much worse in EU because of the real cash economy.

 

[CycoKick]

so they would get 0 for there la´s. nah that will be a major lawsuit.

If they work to gather on a law suit, it could be a 750K/1mil dollar law suit without a prob.

And that will go ring bells, and bring MA alot of attention they dont want.

 

[Somay Keres]

Conspiracy theory



" .........MA cannot aford a lawsuit, because MA have no proofs about any cheat-exploit-misbehavior. MA's logs and records-if any at all- have no value as proves in court, because are not checked and supervised by any legal neutral authority. But the player have his Bank records , and the screenshots of the content of their inventory from MA's official EU site. The EULA cannot be enforced in Sweden and in any other country, as it breakes the IRL laws . The EULA is only a civil agreement between 2 civil private entities , and is not above the law regulations. So, while the player can prove in court his achievements and values earned in game , MA cannot prove any misconduct. This is why all bot-users are back in game , using the transferred peds, items and skills over 2nd avatars. MA cannot prove that the player ever uploaded any sort of macro data to MA's servers, as the EU's software traffic is encrypted and MA cannot disclose the code ".

Now discuss.

"....this explains the trapped spider ATH too ".

 

[kira-red]

Now discuss.

so, which one of the banned 'bot-users are you?

 

[Witte]

" .........MA cannot aford a lawsuit, because MA have no proofs about any cheat-exploit-misbehavior. MA's logs and records-if any at all- have no value as proves in court, because are not checked and supervised by any legal neutral authority. But the player have his Bank records , and the screenshots of the content of their inventory from MA's official EU site. The EULA cannot be enforced in Sweden and in any other country, as it breakes the IRL laws . The EULA is only a civil agreement between 2 civil private entities , and is not above the law regulations. So, while the player can prove in court his achievements and values earned in game , MA cannot prove any misconduct. This is why all bot-users are back in game , using the transferred peds, items and skills over 2nd avatars. MA cannot prove that the player ever uploaded any sort of macro data to MA's servers, as the EU's software traffic is encrypted and MA cannot disclose the code ".

Now discuss.

"....this explains the trapped spider ATH too ".

So, you are saying the logs from MA are not valid in court, but a participant made screenshot is

How can any participant prove his achievements (without MAs logs/database) ? We all know its a random incidcation when you make a screenshot. It seem like suing your bank that your money is gone, and show the court a transcript some weeks old.

 

[Somay Keres]

So, you are saying the logs from MA are not valid in court, but a participant made screenshot is

How can any participant prove his achievements (without MAs logs/database) ? We all know its a random incidcation when you make a screenshot. It seem like suing your bank that your money is gone, and show the court a transcript some weeks old.

I have made my screenshots in the presence of my lawyer and an state attorney.

 

[Somay Keres]

so they would get 0 for there la´s. nah that will be a major lawsuit.

If they work to gather on a law suit, it could be a 750K/1mil dollar law suit without a prob.

And that will go ring bells, and bring MA alot of attention they dont want.

In many countries , a lawsuit against an alleged intrnet fraud is free of fees for the plaintiff. But my opinion is that you are right , MA doesnt wants attention from investigators.

 

[Etopia]

This is why all bot-users are back in game , using the transferred peds, items and skills over 2nd avatars.

Its that some speculation or something you know from fact ?

MA cannot prove that the player ever uploaded any sort of macro data to MA's servers, as the EU's software traffic is encrypted and MA cannot disclose the code ".

I dont thonk bot user need to ipload anything on server , They use data clien side.Also , if bot user was using uploaded softweare this would mean very big security problem and , that MA could caught all bot user easylly , that they have not made as far i now , since some locked people was unlocked because eror , and som bot user never was locked...

 

[Witte]

I have made my screenshots in the presence of my lawyer and an state attorney.

Does that prove you havent sold or lost all your assets in the meanwhile? Does it prove you havnt already withdrawn all the money? Does it proof that you didnt make a screenie of items you lend? Does it proof you didnt make the screenshot under a false setup? Answer: NO.

You still need MA's logs to prove anything. I dont believe a screenshot made under any circumstances will hold any value in a court. In that aspect we are all at the mercy of MA. And if their logs that speak for you will be valid in court, also their logs that speak against you will be valid in court.

 

[aridash]

In many countries , a lawsuit against an alleged intrnet fraud is free of fees for the plaintiff. But my opinion is that you are right , MA doesnt wants attention from investigators.

name one.

as you point out this would in the first instance be a civil matter, a simple contract dispute. i doubt you'd get assistance for a civil matter in any country, certainly not the UK. you would have to first prove or convince the relevant body that the case merited a higher court before it were treated as fraud. then you might get legal aid, if you where poor enough. Spending $'000 on a game doesnt help a plee of poverty.

 

[Somay Keres]

name one.

as you point out this would in the first instance be a civil matter, a simple contract dispute. i doubt you'd get assistance for a civil matter in any country, certainly not the UK. you would have to first prove or convince the relevant body that the case merited a higher court before it were treated as fraud. then you might get legal aid, if you where poor enough. Spending $'000 on a game doesnt help a plee of poverty.

I dont need to prove or to argue anything; MA is doing an excellent job itself, by it's silence in the trapped spider ATH case and the hunt-bot case. It makes no difference on what exactely MA based the decision to deal those cases in the manner they did. There is no way to pretend that it takes 2 months to find out that 1 accused player is innocent , and 3 months or more to determine if the others are guilty or not. The obvious-at least to me - is that there is a private agreement between MA and those players .
But to make things very clear : there is no need for a lawsuit, a simple complaint concerning an internet fraud is very enough to start an enbarrasing investigation . I could name something like : " ...EU is used for money-laundering and financing drugs dealers and terrorist groups ..."
btw, was it Franklin who said : " the conspiracy is not a theory, but a crime " ?

 

[Sirhc]

I have seen a couple avatars with fishey closely related names globalling lately its possible its nothing more than someone creating controversey in the game by starting those avatars and has nothing to do with locked players.

Now whether MA and the accused players have some agreement, well I think they must have or those accused players would eventually pop up on the forums in some fashion but if they are under the advice of a lawyer they are more than likely telling them to keep their mouths shut and MA has always been tight lipped about anything dealing with controversy.

It would not be hard for MA to determine who is using bots and who is not. I know about the time this bot controversey started there was strange movement bug which if you were playing would either immediately change the way you moved your avatar or you relogged. This bug seemed to occur at certain timed intervals a few of us loosely kept track of it to better notify MA because it was freaking annoying. A bot would not react the same way as a live player would unless it was programmed to do so. All of that is up for debate though and speculation on my part so take it with a "grain of salt"

One for sure thing MA could have done is look at the logs. If player XXXXXX is logged on for many consecutive hours maybe even days with certain chat activity at certain times they could predict when they are using bots and drop into the area with an MA avatar to confirm no one is at the wheel. Everyone needs sleep at one point or another.

I personally think the bot users got complacent figuring MA would not do anything so they stayed on longer and longer and became greedier and greedier. Plus, if they ever discussed anything in chat about their bots MA has that record (trust me I have seen people discussing oil grabbing macros at the rig in detail so it can happen)

We may never hear anything about this situation just like the spider trapping. I personally think if MA can say something about it they should since it would deter some people from trying this again.

I don't think MA will tell us how they uncovered the bot use. That would just give cheaters an upper hand and circumventing whatever security measures MA has in place in the future.

I have a sinking suspicion that this issue is being tied up legally and legal systems have a way of taking up huge amounts of time so we might not hear anything, if ever.

MA has a nice new blog which is ripe for them to bring this up even if it is "We cannot talk about the bot use because of legal issues"

One thing is for sure the bot users got caught and got locked and those who were locked but found not to be using a bot are back, those who are still in question remain locked.

 

[Dino]

I'm not trying to start any problems I just am curious if anyone has more information on what has happened to the accused Bot users?

 

[Dan59]

I have seen a couple avatars with fishey closely related names globalling lately its possible its nothing more than someone creating controversey in the game by starting those avatars and has nothing to do with locked players.

Now whether MA and the accused players have some agreement, well I think they must have or those accused players would eventually pop up on the forums in some fashion but if they are under the advice of a lawyer they are more than likely telling them to keep their mouths shut and MA has always been tight lipped about anything dealing with controversy.

It would not be hard for MA to determine who is using bots and who is not. I know about the time this bot controversey started there was strange movement bug which if you were playing would either immediately change the way you moved your avatar or you relogged. This bug seemed to occur at certain timed intervals a few of us loosely kept track of it to better notify MA because it was freaking annoying. A bot would not react the same way as a live player would unless it was programmed to do so. All of that is up for debate though and speculation on my part so take it with a "grain of salt"

One for sure thing MA could have done is look at the logs. If player XXXXXX is logged on for many consecutive hours maybe even days with certain chat activity at certain times they could predict when they are using bots and drop into the area with an MA avatar to confirm no one is at the wheel. Everyone needs sleep at one point or another.

I personally think the bot users got complacent figuring MA would not do anything so they stayed on longer and longer and became greedier and greedier. Plus, if they ever discussed anything in chat about their bots MA has that record (trust me I have seen people discussing oil grabbing macros at the rig in detail so it can happen)

We may never hear anything about this situation just like the spider trapping. I personally think if MA can say something about it they should since it would deter some people from trying this again.

I don't think MA will tell us how they uncovered the bot use. That would just give cheaters an upper hand and circumventing whatever security measures MA has in place in the future.

I have a sinking suspicion that this issue is being tied up legally and legal systems have a way of taking up huge amounts of time so we might not hear anything, if ever.

MA has a nice new blog which is ripe for them to bring this up even if it is "We cannot talk about the bot use because of legal issues"

One thing is for sure the bot users got caught and got locked and those who were locked but found not to be using a bot are back, those who are still in question remain locked.

Who knows maybe land owners and shop owners use some kind of program to collect taxes and sell items when they sleep instead to do it manualy as hunters do?

 

[Sirhc]

Who knows maybe land owners and shop owners use some kind of program to collect taxes and sell items when they sleep instead to do it manualy as hunters do?

Yeah gee shops, shopkeepers, and LAs which were all implemented by MA.

I don't think MA has endorsed or implemented any hunting bots or mining bots or oil grabbing bots or other macros for that matter. If I have not said it clear enough send in a support case and ask them.

 

[Morg]

I'm not trying to start any problems I just am curious if anyone has more information on what has happened to the accused Bot users?

One thing is for sure the bot users got caught and got locked and those who were locked but found not to be using a bot are back, those who are still in question remain locked.

^^^^^^^

I don't think MA will tell us how they uncovered the bot use. That would just give cheaters an upper hand and circumventing whatever security measures MA has in place in the future.

From the info I have been given, they were given a list of players...as for technical detection, they detected the software on the users computers....meaning the suspects were sent emails to the effect " We have detected blah blah blah on your computer..." and the suspects had to send a copy of the software they had detected.

 

[DraW]

They Need punishment ?

If you use somekind of bot or other botting stuff u deserve ban. Not cool to everyone else that work theire ass off skilling when a bot using person just dont do anything ! MA good job !

 

[Dino]

Well, we still don't have any resolution yet so it's not time to say "good job MA" yet.

So who is still banned? I haven't seen HunterZ's name globaling in ages so I'm guessing he's still gone. And Nostrop's lands are badly undermanaged which makes it seem like he hasn't been around in a while. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In order to clear the people who were not found guilty, who is still banned?

 

[Etopia]

In order to clear the people who were not found guilty, who is still banned?

Manic ,was unloked after 3 or 4 week , so he was inocent for sure.
But it seems to take MA at least 3 week to watch 1 avatar .... so impossible to say anything about other.
Someone can be inocen but still lock because he is 10 on list and so it take 30 week before MA watch his avatar ( if MA keep working like that)...

 

[Aliana]

Someone can be inocen but still lock because he is 10 on list and so it take 30 week before MA watch his avatar ( if MA keep working like that)...

Well that would piss me off. Wonder how many support cases I can generate with the time I would normally skill.

Hugs,
Aliana

 

[Smilga]

My Opinion

About the bot users.
First, I am not saying that bot users where not doing for what they were accused.
But, I am going to say that the current virtual universe lacks client rights, that are very important in any democratic and free country (I think a country is a correct comparison with the size of Entropia).
One of which is the right to have an open and independent court with opportunities to defend himself.
The Entropia as it is appears to be more like Belorussia's "democracy", where everything is decided by one leader, and none can do anything about the fact that the leader is throwing you in jail, or killing your family...
We're investigating is a typical answer for cases in some not fully democratic (developing) countries. I know that as I happen to live in Latvia, where that's a typical answer to long and "difficult" court cases.

 

[libero]

About the bot users.
First, I am not saying that bot users where not doing for what they were accused.
But, I am going to say that the current virtual universe lacks client rights, that are very important in any democratic and free country (I think a country is a correct comparison with the size of Entropia).
One of which is the right to have an open and independent court with opportunities to defend himself.
The Entropia as it is appears to be more like Belorussia's "democracy", where everything is decided by one leader, and none can do anything about the fact that the leader is throwing you in jail, or killing your family...
We're investigating is a typical answer for cases in some not fully democratic (developing) countries. I know that as I happen to live in Latvia, where that's a typical answer to long and "difficult" court cases.

On the other hand... In this "courtroom" the prosecutor/MA has all the evidence they need, through the logging of all events and interaction in EU.

In all cases, MA stand to lose money every time they lock peoples account, especially big depositors, because all scamming and cheating in the end, only affect the other players. I.e the spider trapping. He got the 80k ATH, but it wasn't MA's loss. It was the loss of the one that didn't get to kill the spider the "right" way.

Therefore, it seems to me, that a lot of people that committed serious cheats/exploits/scamming, that "only" got a temporary lock, (due to the fact that MA maybe want to give all depositors a second chance.. to deposit more) got a good deal after all. This (in many/some(?) cases undeserved) second chance, is, in the end, a good trade off towards the lack of "right to an attorney".

However, in some cases MA might have to prove a players "intention" when exploiting a bug. Like the serious 101 Auction Bug. And I hardly believe MA has developed a logging system, able to do just that
Ofc, in the 101 A. Bug case, the circumstantial evidence in some of the auctions were quite overwhelming, although still not proof.


Just my attempt to express an opinion

 

[Dino]

Just checking to see if there has been any development. Anyone gotten unlocked and cleared? Any news at all?

(Please keep this rational. Just facts please. Thanks)

 

[Etopia]

Just checking to see if there has been any development. Anyone gotten unlocked and cleared? Any news at all?

(Please keep this rational. Just facts please. Thanks)

As far as i know , only manic was unloked ( 3week after he get loked).So all other seems to still be lock ...
No official word from MA .

 

[Suicide]

About 3 or 4 months ago i went on a run with David, he said when we were doing out beacon run that he hadnt played in awhile because he was one of the ones banned and they had just recently unlocked him.

As far as HunterZ and the others... not sure...

Suicide

 

[Tor]

About 3 or 4 months ago i went on a run with David, he said when we were doing out beacon run that he hadnt played in awhile because he was one of the ones banned and they had just recently unlocked him.

As far as HunterZ and the others... not sure...

Suicide

Kind of sucks that MA is taking so long to fix this up. And the fact that they are keeping those things quiet is just stupid.

 

[ZippO]

hehe when they banned crash override they didnt even give me a reason : (((

 

[truantduck]

At the mmorpg I work at, we detect botting using many client and server side methods. Persons caught botting get banned immediatley, regardless of who they are, and how much stuff they have.

Persons are informed why they were banned: "botting"... we do not give any other details because that usually empowers people with some false idea that they can outsmart that one specific asspect of the detection system.

 

[Bob Urganda]

Well read several posts and I am wondering more about MA and it's integrity. Hackers sell GC and don't be fooled thinking that MA isn't making money on GCs.

If these are cheaters or hackers and they have been caught they should get nothing in return, do not pass go and do not collect!! If they sunk honest money in the game and then go and make dishonest money, why even think they deserve any return. They cheated or hacked and got caught, they new the risks and for their actions they should suffer the consequences. If it has been PROVEN that they where being dishonest.

Problem with the law, in some countries, the criminal is made to be the victim and get rewarded more than punished. So if these people are in fact guilty, they should not get anything back. I think all should be auctioned in a special auction or the Newbies get it all lol. Maybe some MA person with a regular game name goes around and just drops stuff all over the planet and people can find it