Yog Pet Buff Issue

Bertha Bot

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Yog Pet Buff Issue

In this announcement we’d like to provide a further update on the pet buff issue that was addressed last week.

Understandably, there has been intense community interest in this issue since the bug was corrected last week, in the form of forum discussions and support cases. We have had time to dig deeper into how the buff issue happened, why it was not caught by our normal testing procedures, and how it was able to persist for so long without being corrected.

The initial bug that allowed all tools and weapons to benefit from the reduced delay buff (rather than just excavators, as intended) arose in September 2018, approximately 6 months after the Yog pet was introduced. Subsequently over the next few months, several support cases were submitted describing the issue with varying degrees of detail.

Unfortunately, these support cases were not escalated to the testing and development teams and/or flagged with a sufficient level of urgency that reflected the seriousness of the issue. We will be taking steps to improve our internal processes to prevent such situations in the future.

As soon as the issue became more widely known late last week, we moved very quickly to correct the issue via a server hotfix. Note that for approximately 30 hours after the server hotfix, the Entropia Universe client still showed that the buff was affecting tools other than excavators, even though the server was not actually providing any buff for those items. This has led to some participants reporting that the issue has not been resolved, despite it having been resolved.

Along with the server hotfix which corrected the pet buff issue, Summer Mayhem scores for 12 participants were removed, due to the possibility that the incorrect pet buff may have been active during those sessions. Please note that those removed scores do not necessarily constitute clear evidence of cheating or abuse on the part of the affected participants. For that reason, those participants were not disqualified from the event, as some participants have called for. However, out of an abundance of caution to ensure the integrity of the Summer Mayhem event, it was decided to remove those scores, even if it was not absolutely certain that there was an intention to gain an unfair advantage in the event.

Additionally, some participants have demanded a review of the results from previous Mayhem events where the unintended Yog pet buff may have provided an advantage, inadvertently or intentionally. We will be conducting this investigation over the next few weeks, with the intention of increasing the prize rewards for any participants who were pushed down in the final standings due to another higher-placing participant benefitting from the unintended pet buff.

Due to the unintended Yog pet buff being available for such an extended period of time, despite support cases that should have resulted in the issue being addressed, and considering that it is not possible to definitively conclude that use of the pet was in every case intended to exploit the buff to gain an advantage, MindArk has decided it would be unfair and impractical to punish participants who directly or indirectly benefited from the unintended buff, for example stripping prizes awarded in previous Mayhem events.

Once again, we want to extend our apologies for the confusion and inconvenience this issue has caused. We are continually improving our processes to hopefully prevent and minimize such incidents in the future.




Originally Posted Here
 
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~ Cirrus ~

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[h=3]Yog Pet Buff Issue[/h]Unfortunately, these support cases were not escalated to the testing and development teams and/or flagged with a sufficient level of urgency that reflected the seriousness of the issue. We will be taking steps to improve our internal processes to prevent such situations in the future.

We are continually improving our processes to hopefully prevent and minimize such incidents in the future.
Yes, please. :)
 

atomicstorm

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TL; DR - Mindark admits their support team is deficient.

Let's hope it gets addressed.
 

GradenFoss

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Couldn′t bring myself to post on the issue (with all its ramifications), but a statement of this kind has been eagerly awaited.

Thank you.

TL; DR - Mindark admits their support team is deficient.
I really don′t understand why you ridicule and belittle the effort... tl;dr-ing, when we get a quite exhaustive explanation.

This is not to say that I necessarily concur with everything stated.
 
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slartybartfass

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[h=3]Yog Pet Buff Issue[/h]
...
Unfortunately, these support cases were not escalated to the testing and development teams and/or flagged with a sufficient level of urgency that reflected the seriousness of the issue. We will be taking steps to improve our internal processes to prevent such situations in the future.
...
Wel thank you very much for this exhaustive information. It was really needed.

But the part that I quoted, well for entropians nothing new. Now it is official stated by MindArk that their support team really needs some overhaul.

Thanks again
 

Dorki

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Unfair to punish participants who directly on indirectly profited from the bug? They cheated and did not deserve those prizes whether they did it knowingly or not. At the minimum those prizes should be taken away from them.:dunce:
 

Alukat123

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The initial bug that allowed all tools and weapons to benefit from the reduced delay buff (rather than just excavators, as intended) arose in September 2018, approximately 6 months after the Yog pet was introduced. Subsequently over the next few months, several support cases were submitted describing the issue with varying degrees of detail.

Unfortunately, these support cases were not escalated to the testing and development teams and/or flagged with a sufficient level of urgency that reflected the seriousness of the issue. We will be taking steps to improve our internal processes to prevent such situations in the future.
it's not the first time that this happened, see loot 2.0 crafting/mining bug, wondering if you're finally going to investigate and adress that one :rolleyes:

Nevertheless, it's a step into the right direction, now please go the full mile and adress the other bug reports you have not taken serious.
 

Xen

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To be clear, this means you will be reviewing all Mayhem events back to and including Halloween 2018, since you stated here that the bug existed since September 2018?
 

Oleg

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Due to the unintended Yog pet buff being available for such an extended period of time, despite support cases that should have resulted in the issue being addressed, and considering that it is not possible to definitively conclude that use of the pet was in every case intended to exploit the buff to gain an advantage, MindArk has decided it would be unfair and impractical to punish participants who directly or indirectly benefited from the unintended buff, for example stripping prizes awarded in previous Mayhem events.
Nonsense. There is zero reason to have a Yog spawned with the buff active if not to deliberately abuse the bug.

If you can work out enough to fairly reward the people who suffered, you can work out enough to punish the people who cheated.

I'm afraid this response is undoing the good work you achieved with your response to the regen chip scandal. You are once again showing us all that cheats will prosper.
 

Rocket192

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So let me get this straight....


We were right, we were harassed for being right, and now borderline nothing is being done other than admitting there were some mistakes made.


Add to that, why would anyone bring a mining buff pet into mayhem instance for HOURS if not to intentionally make use of some exploit?


if 10 people did it intentionally and 1 on accident, there's still plenty of causation to punish everyone regardless. ignorance is borderline no excuse and 25% FR is pretty recognizable. Additionally, you could surely trace the yog horror pet from account to account and figure it out...


also, regarding the prize adjustments, imagine getting a placement token AFTER all of the guns and shit have been claimed already so you have to get bottom barrel melee trash.


[DELETED]

pretty easy to trace the pet as it changed hands during mayhem,cross that with who used it, and then just flat out ban all of them pending a deeper investigation
 
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Theocles

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So DannyO gets reset and locked, but the people that have been exploiting for how long now and taking advantage of all the others competing in mayhem, nothing? Really? As always, the cheaters get to keep cheating. Nothing surprising there. Why would anyone ever report a bug in this game if you are never going to ban or punish the people exploiting? This is proof 100% that you do not even take your own TOS seriously, and that its perfectly ok to cheat or exploit other players as long as its not your pockets being affected. But gg MA, its not like the people that took a pet with a mining buff into personal instances for mayhem had any ill intentions or wanted to exploit the bug they clearly had no idea about.
 
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MsPudding

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MindArk, thank you for the update, and thank you for addressing the community on this hot button topic.

Admitting that your support team is inadequate/overwhelmed in some areas is a good start. In my own experience I've had tickets opened and unanswered for years. I think this is more common than it should be. At least getting back an answer and closing the case is preferable to no response. Not all of my interactions with the support case team have been bad, I've had many questions answered quickly and issues looked into -- so I know those guys are trying their best. But, with the Yog issue, this definitely points to a problem that needs addressed.

I hope you look into improving the support case system, perhaps that means giving their team more discretion to act on their own and solve issues, under your defined guidelines, or maybe it means assigning another person or two to help them answer the volume of cases you deal with, hopefully a solution is underway.

Thanks for looking back at previous Mayhems to reward those impacted by others that had this glitch active. That shows that you guys realize that it negatively impacted several of your loyal customers financially. And that you're at least doing something to make up for this. This is awesome to hear!

As for stripping past prizes... Dang, I really wish there was an easy way for you to just check and see if the pet was traded between people and only used in the Mayhem instance, or if there were conversations where people acknowledged its buffs and then went ahead and used it. Those kinds of blatant actions would be definitive proof of the 'Mens Rea' needed to show a guilty mind. Those are the people that deserve serious punishment. I hope they're reading these posts, and I hope they feel ashamed for their actions.

I'd love for exploiters who knew what they were doing to suffer real consequences for their choices, because their choices hurt so many other people, and damaged some of the trust people place in Mayhem and EU. If it isn't possible to find the evidence needed to take action, I can see why you've decided to err on the side of caution. While I want to see justice play out, I most certainly do not want to see injustice play out -- where someone innocent gets taken down in the mix.

Preserving the innocent is definitely the higher good here. Thanks guys!
 

Mega

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Unfortunately, these support cases were not escalated to the testing and development teams and/or flagged with a sufficient level of urgency that reflected the seriousness of the issue. We will be taking steps to improve our internal processes to prevent such situations in the future.
 

Liu

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Jas

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... Unfortunately, these support cases were not escalated to the testing and development teams and/or flagged with a sufficient level of urgency that reflected the seriousness of the issue. We will be taking steps to improve our internal processes to prevent such situations in the future.

As soon as the issue became more widely known late last week...
OK, so this bug/exploit is solved going forwards (yes, cheaters keep their ill-gotten gains...) What about other bugs/exploits that have been reported in support cases but not acted upon?

MA can only take action if they know about the bug/exploit. Hence we should post all such bugs/exploits on the forum to assist MA while they improve their internal processes.
 

Toast CHG

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Well we wanted MA to respond and unfortunately it was a bunch of crap. Years ago avatars were banned for illegal skilling, trading and suchy. Danny O gets banned for months and his avatar stripped of skills and attributes but outright cheaters in events get only their score reset?! Sorry, that response is not right. Maybe they have friends at Mindark in support or ownership which gives them a pass at abusing the game I've played since 2006. Well that's all good and such. I can no longer trust support or Mindark owners/leaders to run a game that makes it fair for those who do not cheat!
I will NEVER deposit

$$$ into this game and start selling off my gear. I will either play with PED from sale with limited items or just straight out withdraw. Very frustrating, angry and sad day for myself and I'm sure others.
 

atomicstorm

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Couldn′t bring myself to post on the issue (with all its ramifications), but a statement of this kind has been eagerly awaited.

Thank you.



I really don′t understand why you ridicule and belittle the effort... tl;dr-ing, when we get a quite exhaustive explanation.

This is not to say that I necessarily concur with everything stated.
Because it is sad and now sets a precedent that you can report a bug/exploit and if support doesn't do their job, then you can exploit it.. no punishment.

As someone pointed out on EU discord, leaving the door to a bank vault open is not permission to rob it.

This comment makes me question why I am playing this. No one brings the Yog Horror pet into Mayhem to run the mining buff. Does Mindark think we are this stupid?
 

Skorp

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..ohhh boy

+ we got an additional reply on that matter
- no punishment to see (yet). (crime can go on ^^)

However Oleg wrote already what I am also thinking:

Nonsense. There is zero reason to have a Yog spawned with the buff active if not to deliberately abuse the bug.

If you can work out enough to fairly reward the people who suffered, you can work out enough to punish the people who cheated.

I'm afraid this response is undoing the good work you achieved with your response to the regen chip scandal. You are once again showing us all that cheats will prosper.
 

Theocles

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Seems crazy that DannyO gets banned, but people clearly having every intent to cheat, the people who have been caught doing this in the past should not have winnings taken, as those items have been sold off already most likely. But they should be banned from ever taking part in a mayhem again, But a slap on the wrist, I would be willing to bet a lot of players will be withdrawing over this, and good job MA you can fire your support staff, no one will file cases for your useless copy paste responses anymore.
 

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Who would use a yog in mayhem if it weren't for the buff... seriously.
Well said.

The abusers probably deposit too much for them to be punished in any way :eyecrazy:
Danny was just 1 guy for a couple of months, this involves too many avatars for YEARS so they take no action at all...
 

Jhereg

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Unfair to punish participants who directly on indirectly profited from the bug? They cheated and did not deserve those prizes whether they did it knowingly or not. At the minimum those prizes should be taken away from them.:dunce:
Let me rephrase for MA.

It would be too difficult to accomplish such as task fairly, as these rewards and items likely left many of the avatars a long time ago...
 

infamousH4

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mindark you make me sick!

refusing to call it an exploit, these ppl intentionally used the pet for unfair advantage.. doesnt get more simple than that.

this is horsesh1t
 

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Who would use a yog in mayhem if it weren't for the buff... seriously.
While I agree with you, that it's pretty safe to assume that 95% of the people using them in Mayhem Instances are guilty. I do believe it's possible that there were a small percentage of dedicated miners who may have spawned the pet to level it up, unaware it was having the effect it did.

I say this because I'll pretty much spawn my Bunny wherever I am while I have a 100% skill pill active, I do this to gain extra taming skill and to level up my pet, even if I'm just standing still at the auction and not using its run buff. I'm also forgetful and many times leave the run buff active while standing there. I can't be the only person who spawns pets without intending to use their passive buffs, I think it happens inside Mayhem Instances too.

Mind you, I've never spawned a Yog inside Mayhem or while hunting. I know that my account would be safe for them to look into, but I'm trying to put myself in some other Miner's shoes who spawns it inadvertently in Mayhem to level it up and then gets the ban hammer.

While it would be easy for me to say "go get them all MindArk, ban ALL the Yog users!"

What happens when someone discovers that the Bunny gives people 15% reduced auction fees? Then what? MsPudding is always using that Bunny to trade on the action, a-ha! Got her! I'd be crying for mercy then! And why should I get mercy when I wasn't willing to lend it to others in similar unfortunate circumstances?

I think that's who MindArk is trying to protect, the innocent person out of the 20 abusers... it's not perfect, it's not complete justice, but maybe that's the best we get. I'd prefer they err on the side of caution.

I'm still holding out hope that they spend a little extra time and look for solid evidence. I hope they ask: "Were there chat conversations where the buff was discussed?" Was this pet being traded by hunters that don't mine -- and only used inside Mayhem instances? The thing is, theres some definitive actions that people took that prove their guilt in this.

The first place I'd start is by looking at those 12 names of people who used it this Mayhem. Did they use it last Mayhem? Do they only use the Yog while hunting, do they even mine? I mean, this will take some research, but I'm sure it would turn up some guilty people. Who knows.
 

BBpunisher

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Nonsense. There is zero reason to have a Yog spawned with the buff active if not to deliberately abuse the bug.

If you can work out enough to fairly reward the people who suffered, you can work out enough to punish the people who cheated.

I'm afraid this response is undoing the good work you achieved with your response to the regen chip scandal. You are once again showing us all that cheats will prosper.
This exactly :lolup:

I imagine there's a record of players finishing a run and then trading the pet to their soc mates to start their run too.

Can the community manager give a response to this please.
 

atomicstorm

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Mindark,

Maybe you need a refresher.

EULA rule #10 states: You must immediately report errors and bugs in the Entropia Universe to MindArk whenever You discover them. You may not “cheat” or otherwise neglect to report errors or bugs, use bugs, slow connection, Internet latency, or other 'exploits' for own benefits or for the benefit of others.
AND

Banned Account/Account Banning means that the Account is under investigation due to a suspected violation of these Terms, or that the Account user was deemed to have violated one of the Terms. This may be definitive or temporary for short or long periods, on MindArk's and/or MindArk's Partner sole and absolute discretion.
Enforce the EULA or it is void because then it all is subjective.
 

Jhereg

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In terms of punishment, I'm not surprised that MA is not trying to do a claw back of prizes awarded.

I AM surprised that, if they find intentional instances of cheating, that they do not AT LEAST ban the users from future competition in Mayhems.

Not that it'd matter...people just gonna use their alts.

This game can be a real disappointment.
 

Jhereg

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[h=3]

Once again, we want to extend our apologies for the confusion and inconvenience this issue has caused. We are continually improving our processes to hopefully prevent and minimize such incidents in the future.
Confusion and convenience eh?

What about peds lost :D
 
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