An idea for MA

ok well after reading all of the posts about loot (or the lack of) and takeing under consideration of my own deposits I am writing this as an idea for mindark to help us game PLAYERS out! Please bear with me on this as I also want to let ma know what im thinking...
A few years ago my brother in law asked me to start playing wow with him and after looking at the suscrition prices told him no thanks. Another friend told me about planet calypso and said i could play for free... so I did lol. After sweating for a couple of months I told myself well this is a bunch of crap for free so I decided to make a depo and buy decent armor and gun. I did ok for a while then ran out of ped (go figure lol), so I made another depo,then another and another and well now here we all are rightfully complaining about our rotten returns for our money. I know some of us are just gamers and want a cool game to play, and some of you are out there trying to make a profit off of the rest of us. Well its my opinion that the few making a profit are getting that from the masses of us that are paying to play. I have been playing now for almost 2 years and after making many many depos my wife is asking well you have now payed 10 times what it would have cost you to play wow for 3 years and she is right!!!!
MA take this idea and enhance it and run with it before you lose us as customers...
Consider the fact that some of us just want to play a game and have no intentions of making a withdrawl, so maybe you should just let us choose when we make our avatars whether we want to be able to withdraw or not. If we choose no i dont want to be able to withdraw then you will have no fear of giving us more globals or hof,s as we cant withdraw your preciouse profits. We will just be out there playing a game and probably still making depos. As for how much money i have givin you so far i feel as i should be able to play 5 years of any game of my choice for that price and I will not continue to be that dumb in the future. Also please know that your attemt to make crap loots ( fragments) to replace the no loot notification didnt fool many of us either lol tis just a new word for no loot!

But what would you do with those peds you won? You would not even be able to buy armor because (hypothetically) you could buy a pixie part for 100k peds from your wifes avatar and she could withdraw it.

I can't see any way to make this system work.

Well thats why i told them to tweak it and run with it as there are ways of tracking these things, And trying to be constructive instead of just whining this time made me feel better lol

This idea is stupid sorry to say that
My wife create an avatar who don't want to withdraw money and I keep mine who can
So when my wife got an ATH she gives me peds and I do it?
On an economic side, it's impossible to play in the same place people who could withdraw and other people who cannot
The Market value will be false every day more than before and game will die fast
Imagine you loot a Shadow Harness, what will you do with it? This Shadow parts will be money in game but cost 0 for you???
So I think if you don't want to play PE just don't play !!
Nobody was with you in your house with a gun on your head, you have done all your deposit because you want to play

Sorry if my words seems to be hard but sometimes I don't understand some people It's like you were asking to play WoW but for free because you will play only the monday....

This would only be possible if the game had 2 versions. The normal version, and a free one. This would need to be 2 separate games

cozmoz said:

Well thats why i told them to tweak it and run with it as there are ways of tracking these things, And trying to be constructive instead of just whining this time made me feel better lol

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I`m sorry, but its the same as: pls make an engine that can go faster than light, i know its hard, its just a suggestion. You should be able to tweak it a bit and make it possible.

Thats what EU is really about - the ped. Not just making profit etc. But since this is an RCE the loot system, everything is different than a regular MMO.

You are missing the point here though, as stated this was just an idea, it could be tweaked to work, but maybe not. Stupid maybe but better than nothing which is saying the game is good as it is but as you all know if i leave my revenue goes with me, less loots for you all. I started this more for the positive idea input than to get flamed for speaking out lol. Doing nothing is not an option i feel. As for a bad idea maybe but i have never heard a bad idea before as itis just an idea. U got any better ones? thats why i started this post...

Sometimes nothing is better than stupid.

if you reassess your game play, I bet you'll find a way to make peds with the current system.

I haven't seen anyone flame you yet. We have just tried to point out that this idea is completely unworkable.

It is like asking for "the moon on a stick".

Yeah people. you have not flamed the OP but you really didnt offer anything good as far as changing the idea. (some posters are exempted)


Well Here is my take on the whole situation. And What i have chosen to do to fix it or help things out.

Well My loots had sucked. a few months ago. So i had Desided to take a new approch to the game. Some still in the experimental and testing of things as i have been doing the past 7 month sence starting.

So I want to help out other players as well as set myself up for a long term investment. Now i have stopped skilling all together. I have stopped doing any professions. But i have not stopped contributing to the game.

What i have mostly done is Figured out what item i could invest in that would Help out everyone out and buffer some losses for others. I have Chosen to Buy Nova Fragments and Blazers, To provide an added value to those selling these items.

Now the thing is, This is fun to me. it isnt fun for everyone. And I buy only on the market, and only at market prices. What this has shown me over the past month is a few things.

1: So many people sell their loot to the 1st person they see, and do not follow market trends, or have any trust in the market system. or trust in the fees that the market has.

2: The fact that Resellers... well i should rephrase this. "Bottemfeeder Resellers" Are Sapping mark ups from the people putting money into the game. and gathering the items. Not a bad thing imo. But....

3: Players that do not take the time to sell their items at the best possible price, and allow a reseller to rob players from their deserved mark-up. If you allow this to happen you are missing out on a return of your money.

4: Most players are to quick to want to get back to getting more loot. This is bad for 2 reasons.

4A: The more loot of a certain type could lower the value of that type becouse the supply is more than the demand.

4B:When this happens Resellers will offer you less, but still sell the item at a artificial value, hurting crafters in the long run.

If the Item does not have a liquid backing. meaning if the person with the item paid half the value for the item and gets the full value when they sell it. They hurt 2 people the supplyer and the person with the real demand. Middle men Are good and bad. They keep you liquid, at the expence of taking your profits.

To many Resellers have went into Bottemfeeding Mode. and for the most part do not want to take the risks to move prices higher. They bottem feed becouse players enable them. Always wanting to stay liquid themselves just taking a little bit of value every item they trade out. some dont even deposit their own money to buy the items. its smart but it does not add value to the items in the long run.

Now. To split the game into a non withdrawl, for certain avatars. Well Right now for you this is how you are playing the game. You play, you pay MA, And reward other players your mark ups. You wont be making any withdrawls I assure you. and the people that can withdrawl are the people getting the best share of the money.

And Here is a hint. The people Getting the most shares of the money are not the people hunting and mining. they are the people taking the mark-ups from the players, taxes, travel fee's. Now the people that play at their skill level, and are eco about it are also 1st in line to get the best loots and what not. But is not always 100%.

So i dont know man. I really dont know what to tell ya. Your idea kinda isn't realistic. at least the way your preceiving it to be. Becouse if your playing with monopoly money and everyone else with real money, how are you any help to the game. or even why play this game in general? You play this game becouse of the real money oppertunitys. the real long term investment. Everything you do in this game over time could pay out in some way later. Are you sure you want to limit yourself to not withdrawing?


In closing..

Stop looking for the luck Varible. the big loots are not good things. becouse odds are you will have paid that big loot with your own money.

Instead look for the Mark-up for the items. hell If you feel gutsy buy and hold a certain item as a investment. If you get some cheep, and want to sell for more push the mark up by buying out the competitors. buy off the market so the transactions are recorded. Trust me people live by the Mark ups posted.

But there is far more to it than that. ofc. want some personal hints pm me.

Lorespade said:

Yeah people. you have not flamed the OP but you really didnt offer anything good as far as changing the idea. (some posters are exempted).

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Umm... yeah. Kettle? This is Pot. You're black.

Joser said:

Umm... yeah. Kettle? This is Pot. You're black.

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I said some people. i gave my reason it it couldnt work out. i would like to think i did it with offering something constructive as well.

Meh i tried. But seriously. your one sentence posting Trolling on me. is the kinda stuff we dont want posted as a responce. So instead of throwing the subject of the topic at hand out the window. Give some constructive critic, and tell the OP your veiws and how his veiw isnt realisticaly going to pan out.

A) Methinks you need to learn what trolling is.

B) The "topic" at hand required far too many variables (with MA, FPC, planet partners, and players) to be even remotely realistic. It's like getting all five numbers AND the powerball. To even try to form an argument for it is laughable. To try and cover all the reasons it won't work is far too time consuming, and it'd probably require a novel or be the equivalent of a bill presented to Congress.

C) Follow the logic.

Joser said:

A) Methinks you need to learn what trolling is.

B) The "topic" at hand required far too many variables (with MA, FPC, planet partners, and players) to be even remotely realistic. It's like getting all five numbers AND the powerball. To even try to form an argument for it is laughable. To try and cover all the reasons it won't work is far too time consuming, and it'd probably require a novel or be the equivalent of a bill presented to Congress.

C) Follow the logic.

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ok ok.

A: I like this post better than the last.

B: Totally right on there being alot of varibles involved. But seriously the OP is suggesting something that is impossible. and the main reason is the many varibles involved. Multiple varibles that directly apply to the OP's idea dictatate the idea is not realistic. and would not work. Why cover all the reasons involved? when you can name just a few?

C: I dont like to follow logic. i like to understand the logic, and formulate my own path. becouse often someone else's logic does not cover everything it can.


But thats just me man.

I say:

theres always a wife

otherwise you wouldnt have that bad gut feeling about spending

I.

Something to try

Ok first off i think this game would be a roaring sucess in the free to play game market without the real money aspect and loot drop rates at about 20x to now.People would play the game and not have to worry about can i cover the cost of doing a or b.Well we dont have that and thats a shame but there are other ways to generate cash flow for the game like real world advertising.The game already has advertising well MA/FPC get out there and sell some real world adds to run in here and use the money to help the loot pool.Not sure if you still have a large enough player base to attract outside advertising but shoot give it a try!

I stoped playing, thinking "This game isnt THAT fun". Sure the RCE
IS a cool concept but it isnt working like a stable economy.

I started playing cause i thought it would be cool to have a game
that simulated the RL economy but in a game, at first i thought
hmm sweatning, not cool. But as i played more and more i found
that if im gonna do all the cool and fun things like crafting, hunting
and mining i need to depo. So i did, then i find that if im gonna keep
doing these fun things i have to KEEP depo. THAT isnt cool.

So i stoped playing all together and there ARE games out there
that are WAY cooler then this..ArmA II for one..

khaos said:

This would only be possible if the game had 2 versions. The normal version, and a free one. This would need to be 2 separate games

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Agreed.
To add to this, I also believe that EU - less the RCE - would be more boring than it already is.

Different game

You know if your the person whos been around awhile and has the skills and resources to play the game as u like congrats and well done.Since i wasnt here from the start i cant say how easy/hard it was to lvl up skill up stock up over the years but i can say that as a new player(about 1 month) who is an avid player im not going to spend 50 /100 dollars a week/month to play a game.And to be honest im the guy MA/FPC has to figure out how to keep playing if they want the game to grow.Without me and the new players like me depositing your skills/items ect dont mean s--- if there is no new money coming in for you to take out.

I agree that FPC and the planet partners' main goal should be figuring out how to recruit and retain new players, but I don't think it's quite as drastic as you say, Chip. They NEED you? Really? Take a look around the forum sometime and see just how long back that argument has been made. I think the small scale investors ($10-$20) a month are just a drop in the bucket compared to the large scale investors ($100-$1000+). Chances are those large scale investors are cycling more PED and decaying the hell out of things so FPC and MA can get paid.

sry but it's impossible to make it, we all loot same stuff/items, would be impossible to keep same % for that stuff and many many more reasons why it woudn't work. I'm also quite sure that 99% or more ppl woud chose "I want withdraw" option.

my 2pec

Instead of just saying "This will never work" perhaps people could make suggestions (which others could then shoot down in flames) as to how it might be possible to do this. Would it be possible to do this on a separate planet? Loot which could not be sold to tt? Loot which could not be transported between planets?

To be more constructive...

The idea is really noble to begin with, yet you forget that this game is ALL about RCE. Otherwise it aint much to it - its basically a sandbox game with just so many 3d models implemented. No story (atlest not any that I would remember), very few events which are so expencive that average middle skilled player can not finance properly.

On the other hand we have a good hit in the groin to new player as things are atm. When I first started playing many years ago - everything WAS free - free teleports, there was something called CP which I didnt even think about visiting due to it being reserved for ubers... Only taxed area was - Tresure island (maybe several more - i dont remember properly) - which I circled around because it was like - why the hell would I pay my money to those guys when there is so many non taxed areas. Price of sweat was nicely rounded to 2 pec / piece.

Nowdays - you start playing and what can you see:
- no way to buy a lowest gun and some ammo without spending 3 days sweating
- when you do - it burns out in less then 1 hour
- big fanfare advertise new planets - wow that must be good - and its all free of charge - except you have to pay 5$ to visit
From the perspective of the new player its like - wow to teleport around it costs 5$ here - how much is the gun then
- EVERYTHING good is taxed now

See - those are all flaws that need to be corrected. The game should be more balanced, MA should give out some "free teleport vouchers" on montly basis or something. Give out "free to kill 0 pec to loot mobs (0TT stuff in it)" so everyone can try out EU without being overwhelmed by high costs from the start.

See - many suggestions - no realisation. The community is ranting about everything being insanely expencive and noone reacts. Cmon - one mid lev hunt (ghost, vigi, gremlin + matching gun) costs 100 ped decay / day EASILY. 300$ / mo game? That IS insane.

Regards

I.

xentric said:

But what would you do with those peds you won? You would not even be able to buy armor because (hypothetically) you could buy a pixie part for 100k peds from your wifes avatar and she could withdraw it.

I can't see any way to make this system work.

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as xentric said

davidgr1200 said:

Instead of just saying "This will never work" perhaps people could make suggestions (which others could then shoot down in flames) as to how it might be possible to do this. Would it be possible to do this on a separate planet? Loot which could not be sold to tt? Loot which could not be transported between planets?

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The only thing i can think of is to have a completely different loot table. Say items with no TT value but can also have some use to depositing players. (Pretty much like Sweat/Nova type items) Now the catch is You still have to pay to play, but the cost ratio's are scaled back. Like you can do The same damage as a normal depositer. but be rewarded 0TT value loot. and the decay would be equivalent to a decay rate of TT sweat prices.

A completely differnt skill set to reflect the lack of value going into the skills. comparible to a normal player.

In a way this could be a Free play. but in reality there is a small amount of money being made by MA. And the loot would be determined on the market by pure mark up. in the event some depositer wanted to buy it.

The thing is when it comes to 0 TT value items. the price is made by who ever gives it value by buying it.

And if there is some value in non depositers playing small like this. for loot that is not backed by MA and just backed by the player population.
Then the player base would expand to fill two types of players.

The depositer and the Big money investments
And the slave player, working off pure mark up items. with no big money investment skills with the exception of a few. But they also get the same chances to play with the same mobs as everyone else.

------------------------------

In action

Player A playing normal. Kills exo with opalo gets TT value of .12 pec

Player B playing Freestyle. Kills Exo with (F)Opalo, Gets TT value of .000012

Player A and B kill Exo. both get TT value of .060006

Same damage output. but becouse there is a serious reward handicap players playing freestyle will help kill better, but not change the loot output in respects to going higher.




But this is the only thing i can see that could work.

Now this is just a very weird example. if you wanted to make it interesting however. you could make the free players kill with some special powers to make it interesting. and the loot that drops is just a result of these powers and could help to count as some small aspect of something helpful to any avatar.

Who knows meh.

davidgr1200 said:

Instead of just saying "This will never work" perhaps people could make suggestions (which others could then shoot down in flames) as to how it might be possible to do this. Would it be possible to do this on a separate planet? Loot which could not be sold to tt? Loot which could not be transported between planets?

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It's name WOW I think...
Entropia is the only one like this because of this economy.
If you want to play PE with no PED/ Dollars it's impossible because this will be not any more PE.

Wel basic it should just work as like the dynamic of Capitalism -> let it die and then it will eventually reinvent it self... sohow..
eh.. wait.. then we are all doomed.. hmm we are doomed ..
wel anyhow.. some of us will be doomed..
some wont...
But the rest of us wont be around to see it happen...
When civilsation become too complex usualy it is doomed -> and then it dies ...
Now this game is like fairy complex... wonder when it will reach its peak

xentric said:

I haven't seen anyone flame you yet. We have just tried to point out that this idea is completely unworkable.

It is like asking for "the moon on a stick".

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You dont consider using the word "stupid" a flame?

The sky is falling.... Again... The end MUST be near, i've heard of it for the last 4 yrs i've been here, so it must be true. Funny thing is my FL has never been more full and there's tons of ppl anywhere i go in the wilderness whereas it used to b desolated bk when things were supposedly better... It all comes to playing within ur means and i lose more and more sympathy for ppl on a daily basis. Considering i climbed outta sweat camp when i started and worked my way up, being almost solely non depositor. Grinding berycelds at lvl 20+ evaders and such, i don't pity many anymore. Especially since 90% of the ppl who go broke do it by grabbing big armor and hunting things they can't handle, even when they just begin. I have run into so many people who hunt argo with opalo and shogun, and they won't listen when u warn em, cause everyone knows what's best, even on their first 3 days apperently.

This is a real cash economy, u play frivolous and the person counting his pennies will walk away with ur hard earned money, it's that simple. It's even become that almost any fairly fresh person can make a team and nail an ath on prots ffs. Yet people always complain about a few ppl making all the money... ofc those ppl are ones who have invested thousands, grinded more hrs than u can possibly ever imagine and do it still. I can rehash this a thousand times, but the ones who generally are saying such are people who are spending 30 seconds on a mob that is chewing away at em, hunting way above their lvls. As you get higher up on the foodchain u need more ped to avg out ur hits, and that's another thing people don't realize. If it wasn't built on such a large scale, then the people who cycle the ped they do already (I don't think many people realize that a higher lvl hunter can shoot in a couple hrs what some ppl shoot in a month) would have their own personal odds increase exponentially.

I think however some of lorespades suggestions are very good, to create an entirely player driven economy for the "non depositor" avatars. To attack him for pointing out that the argument wasn't taken further than "you're wrong" is just childish. Try to explain why your side has valid points.

I think a player driven economy is a very viable solution, and a non depo ava should have the option to upgrade to depo if he starts to get interested in sitting in the big boy chair. One thing that needs accounting for tho is skills, such avatars should skill at a much slower rate and not b allowed to chip out such skills. I do however think that such an avatar should not be entirely free, but perhaps a small monthly fee to make it more in line with monthly mmos. I'm thinking something ridiculously small, like 5$ a month, just to pump up the economy. But they would have access to a side of the game which depo players don't have access to. Including 0 TT items with some very good eco in the mix, to give incentive.

But something people will never get, and i see a pattern of it... MOST people will never get the nicer stuff, because otherwise it wouldn't BE nicer stuff...


Had to add one final thing, i do think the number of uber hofs should be reduced. Some days it feels like they are just handing money out to every 2nd lucky avatar and raping the other half. We shouldn't repeatedly have days with 5-6 10k+ hofs. An ath should become something to strive for and be hard to achieve. Having said that, if MA were to implement that now i would now probably lose my chances of having one (real ath, not a 30k one that vanishes in a month), still, i'd like to see this anyways. Bring back the days where the hard workers get more than the just plain lucky and not the other way around.

Taking out the constant 500-3k daiki/bery and other noobie mobs and instead averaging that loot out in the noobish mobs (making them a more constant return mob) would entice new players to play and skill up and give older players a fall back option for when they aren't rich. There will always be more people who'd rather hunt big anyways, damned be eco or returns. There's little glory in a daiki hunt in most ppl's eyes, and that's where the money will always be for mindark anyways, the big guns.

Give everyone a piece of the pie.