Question: Are mission rewards devaluating skills?

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Even more than that, some farm missions and just sell the skills right after the mission is completed. This is a fact.

How is this any different than the people that just farm noob mobs and then chip out skills afterwards?

Skills are a reward for playing.. and doing missions is DEFINITELY playing. In fact, they take tens, if not hundreds of hours each to complete. I think giving a skill bonus at the end of such a gruelling task is definitely deserved.

Yes, skill values are going to go down, no they would not stop going down if missions were removed.

And lastly, WHY should skill values stay up at such ridiculous prices? Maybe it's a good thing that it doesn't take 5+ years to reach mid-level since the skill nerf that happened years and years ago. Stop thinking only about yourself BH, some of us actually have lives.
 
I have a better idea then. Remove skills from game, since they don't mean much anyway. Make all avatars have 400 HP and all should be about armor and weapon, and all armors and weapons should be 103%.

I suppose at that time EU will become the dream game for most.
 
I have a better idea then. Remove skills from game, since they don't mean much anyway. Make all avatars have 400 HP and all should be about armor and weapon, and all armors and weapons should be 103%.

I suppose at that time EU will become the dream game for most.

Or better yet, lower the skills of all people that played before the skill nerf to match those that skilled up afterwards, remove all the skill gains from people that played during 2x and 3x skill periods. Cause you DO realise that the gains from those people that grinded the skill periods are higher than all the rewards you can get from missions right? You do realise that the skill tt of just ONE person that modfapped all day long in front of robots/etc is higher than ALL of the total TT given out from all mission rewards thus far right?

Don't condemn those that have to work for something to get a reward at the end because they don't have all the opportunities others had in the past.
 
You do realise that the skill tt of just ONE person that modfapped all day long in front of robots/etc is higher than ALL of the total TT given out from all mission rewards thus far right?

This point is hugely significant, which translates into EU being attractive to the likes of uber chippers.

If the game is weak, we talk about skill value, if it is strong we don't care. At all.

Point well made Hijacker27. +1
 
Don't condemn those that have to work for something to get a reward at the end because they don't have all the opportunities others had in the past.
This is the money! This is definately on the money! Show me the money! :D & +rep.
 
I always said that autofap skills and all the exploits from the past should be dealt with some how. However, punishing the people that made the skills the hard way in this system is a bad idea. Because this is what rewards will do. Most people that are in game atm are people that started in the period with skills that work the way they do.
It sounds okay at first glance what you say, but if you look deeper, it is not so. And you can't look deeper. You are just a player that judge from your own point of view ALWAYS. None of you ever made a suggestion that MAY be good for the game and potentially hurt you more than anyone else. until you do that, you can't tell anyone that is looking for its own interest. Or before you do, try some fucking search on started threads and think again.
 
I always said that autofap skills and all the exploits from the past should be dealt with some how. However, punishing the people that made the skills the hard way in this system is a bad idea. Because this is what rewards will do. Most people that are in game atm are people that started in the period with skills that work the way they do.
It sounds okay at first glance what you say, but if you look deeper, it is not so. And you can't look deeper. You are just a player that judge from your own point of view ALWAYS. None of you ever made a suggestion that MAY be good for the game and potentially hurt you more than anyone else. until you do that, you can't tell anyone that is looking for its own interest. Or before you do, try some fucking search on started threads and think again.

All skills devalued, not just those given in missions.

The devaluation started in 2008 after the skill progression changes, when highly skilled people were given an insane tt value of skills as a result of those changes.

The volume of skills added to the game as a result of the progression changes to the highly skilled were truly staggering amounts of tt chip value.

The selling of access skills for those maxed on oldschool unlimited weapons every month, year put mission skill gains into insignificance.

VU8.8 skill changes

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...vel-100&highlight=chages+to+skill+progression

Skill Devaluation soon after

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...lues-in-freefall&highlight=devaluation+skills

In the second link skill chip values went down as esi prices peaked, as oldschool players who somehow with psychic help had chipped in masses of skills before the update proceeded to chip them out again for masses of profit...

Can you answer any of these points without clueless rhetoric? Not trying to be rude but you don't support any of your posts with "facts" or valid counter arguments with any substance whatsoever, isn't this more about you selling access skills and getting less now for them? Ranting like a 5 year old as in the quoted post does nothing to further discussion or debate, no facts, no supporting links...


The problem is lack of demand, nobody wants to buy them, the playerbase has stagnated at 2008 levels or less. After a certain point buying skill chips becomes pointless... who wants to pay excessive amounts for small point gain? May as well keep grinding with the skill progression as it currently stands. At lower skill levels there is a point to chipping in but past 5k skill price per gain is not really worth it for most..

Maybe MA should introduce weapons for rank 100+ so that skills beyond 100 are no longer access to requirements (raise the bar). Give a use to all those skills you maxed guys happily flood the markets with.

Anyway thats my views to why the skill market is down the crapper, ofc if you can counter argue with any substance i will listen...
 
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Skill value went down first of all because of how loot system works. Most people have huge loses. Unreasonable amounts for whatever they do. So guess what... they quit.

The system lives on people that quit. If you play long enough, system will balance you out and get some back. But if you just quit, the system keeps all your loss. So this results in huge profit for MA and huge loss for playerbase, since we do not have an active economy.

The skill change was good. There were and still are too many skills in system. All my skills are made in current system, so I know how easy or hard it is to make skills. because I actually played the game.
 
Skill value went down first of all because of how loot system works. Most people have huge loses. Unreasonable amounts for whatever they do. So guess what... they quit.

The system lives on people that quit. If you play long enough, system will balance you out and get some back. But if you just quit, the system keeps all your loss. So this results in huge profit for MA and huge loss for playerbase, since we do not have an active economy.

The skill change was good. There were and still are too many skills in system. All my skills are made in current system, so I know how easy or hard it is to make skills. because I actually played the game.

Fair points, but when the progression was changed many created "out of thin air" masses of tt value of skills, some sold at that point (pham i believe did at this point but is on memory so might be out). Others were also tempted to take the money at this point also, it put onto the market masses of tt that had been insta-created due to tt values for older players being given to them. What is done is done however and now we have the situation whatever happens, but i think you are greatly overestimating the effect of mission skill gains. The skill markets never recovered from this point, 2008 something momentus happened, maybe it wasn't down to the new skill system - just looks like the main factor to me. Ofc i could be wrong.

I thought new planets would bring an influx of players that we so badly need, and space also... but they don't seem to have come.

If you managed to hit level 100 after 2008 all my respect to ya, the tt value needed in skill value to do so now is truly insane.
 
It is insane and probably I am insane. But I did it and it can be done.
You are right. Skill missions is not the hardest blow to skill market. But on the other hand, I see no point to give skills instead of attributes, where the balance can never be recovered by a new avatar unles he does tons of missions.
In old days, lots of avatars gained insane attributes by exploits. No one can ever catch those people. So missions should give a chance to catch up in attributes. But anyone can buy skills from auction if he wants to catch up.


Note that I do not sell any skills. I do not think the value of my skills will ever recover and I will not sell even if I quit the game. So my points of view are strictly related to gameplay, economy and fairness.

To be fair, in my way to level 100 I never got any chips for free. Was really hard. How is that fair to those that did it like me? The hard way?
 
When i got into the game my first goal was to get 100 in attribute,250k in skills and 250 in hp. can only say it was hard way.

Btw. I am soon there, just now i have. 102 in attribute and about 407k in skills but only 248 in hp, still 2 hp to get.
And from the missions i got about 350 tt skills.:) and i did not had any luck only hard work in the game.
 
It is insane and probably I am insane. But I did it and it can be done.
You are right. Skill missions is not the hardest blow to skill market. But on the other hand, I see no point to give skills instead of attributes, where the balance can never be recovered by a new avatar unles he does tons of missions.
In old days, lots of avatars gained insane attributes by exploits. No one can ever catch those people. So missions should give a chance to catch up in attributes. But anyone can buy skills from auction if he wants to catch up.


Note that I do not sell any skills. I do not think the value of my skills will ever recover and I will not sell even if I quit the game. So my points of view are strictly related to gameplay, economy and fairness.

To be fair, in my way to level 100 I never got any chips for free. Was really hard. How is that fair to those that did it like me? The hard way?

Fair play BH, but we all know others sell off the access skills - not saying that is wrong by any means but it happens. Thing is with the missions we can all do them also so the flield is level to all, and i remember when missions were first introduced ubers blasting their way through the daikiba/shinkiba missions (which i only just finished :laugh:).

Stat gains benefit higher players also as difference between 90-91 say and 50-51 agility is huge, again no problems at all with that.

I understand your viewpoint more now and yep grinding the skills before missions could give a sour taste i admit, and i would agree some of the mission gains seem "high". It really didn't help i guess this last Longtooth/eomon event where exa elites counted towards the LT mission - i thought that was wrong to be honest.

Maybe an answer would be to increase the skill value lost when chipping out from 10% to 15% or 20%, but that would create a sh%*storm all by itself.
 
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My answer is:

No - they are not, so more iron missions should be added obviously.


And for MINING and CRAFTING also must exist Iron Missions,

with this equivalence:

number of claims found := killed mobs
number of succesfull attempts := killed mobs


thats would be fair..!! ;)
 
There was another game in past in wich you cudnt sell skills and nobody ever thinked it will be ever possible.
I was happy with that game.
It was called Project Entropia.
You skilled up as a part of advertised "personal development" and because more skilled was suposed is better.
Lol we even didnt know that weapons can be maxed, on weapon info we had ammo burn, range and damage - no other info.
We didnt know much of item stats or skills and wich skill give what.
Long time was needed that players figured out that weapons max on lvl 100.
So skill walue was only subjective and personal measurement of avatar progress and not something to sell.
Nowday newcomers are so fast to acuse for modfap skilling and what not. And who had it? Maybe few in game.
And then come shit.
MA introduced ESI and possibility to sell/buy skills.
Totaly another game where "personal development" changed in "persoinal investment".
Old players sudenly got rich in form of sellable skill walues.
Many rich kids chiped up to ubernes devaluating hard work of years playing and paying of old players.
After years of playing and paying - new ppl cud reach my level in single day by chiping without playing and decaying.
Because of massive chipping up MA nerfed skill gain frequence and TT value and mode of trigering skill gain ( based on decay). We got by the way wery hard run speed nerf too.
Yes i was pissed.
I quited for year and half in that time ( didnt sold ).
For me most of fun i get is avatar progress.
But in new EU game on higher lvl there is almost no avatar progress - is soo flat and slow.
My attributes line dont move for years already.
Once back in game i tryed with mind force for two reasons - i like and to get again feeling of avatar progress.
So to answer some of posts - its possible to skill up in nerfed system as is now too but only to a certain point.
Im at 99 and half line to 100 lvl psyche and it seem it will newer come lol.
Regardles of questioning poll here if missions are good or bad for skill value - missions are only way to get back feeling of avatar progress on higher lvls where attributes line do not advance ( or advance in sooo small steps that normal human cant get evidence nor any feeling of progress )
We shud newer have skill system with possibility to sell skills, game changed too much for that cause.
But if missions are shamefuly only way to up attributes on higher lvls then let them as mode to get feeling of progress.
 
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My answer is:

No - they are not, so more iron missions should be added obviously.


And for MINING and CRAFTING also must exist Iron Missions,

with this equivalence:

number of claims found := killed mobs
number of succesfull attempts := killed mobs


thats would be fair..!! ;)

Hells yes, some may be easy some close to impossible

Find 16,6k claims Ruga :D
Craft 16,6k of whatever uses Ruga :D
 
There was another game in past in wich you cudnt sell skills and nobody ever thinked it will be ever possible.
I was happy with that game.
It was called Project Entropia.[...]

this. Project Entropia was great.

where it went wrong was not scaling the max level for weapons (and prehaps other items too). Jester D1 takes the same to level as impMKII, which is bonkers and pointless. its odd in retrospect that skills where always unending yet weapons where fixed on a 0/10 to 10/10 scale. its boxed them into a corner.

so when the skills inflation became a problem, they restricted skills growth, rather than expand the weapons range and increase max requirements, say ModMKIV with 120lvl needed to max, or a Jester D5 for the modest eco range? then came L which failed to address because they didnt change the upper boundry. tiers have probably been another attempt to fix this, giving people purpose to skill up using unL weapons (certainly the only reason i log on for now).
 
Hells yes, some may be easy some close to impossible

Find 16,6k claims Ruga :D
Craft 16,6k of whatever uses Ruga :D

A mission chain based on ruga might not be a bright idea, but something like :
find find kanerium -> find Langotz -> find Redulite -> find Tridenite -> find Xeremite -> find Ruga (or some permutation thereof) might not be so outlandish.

Crafting "missions" should not depend on high markup components, instead these should help improve the economy by using up abundant, low markup produce like animal oils and wools. Same for underused ores and enmatters.
 
A mission chain based on ruga might not be a bright idea

Why?

We got iron missions for mobs that spawn only once a year for a relativ short period.
In what is that different to the insane Ruga mission?
Ruga definately could be found, it may take some years to get to 16.6k claims. But not really impossible, just close to it :)

And if this mining missions are build like the Iron hunt missions, there could be very different ones from noob (Lyst) to whatever not that easy to find.
16.6k claims on one specific ore/enmatter doesn´t sound that bad.

For crafting, it would be very nice as the skillprogress there is so damn slow.
It would be definately push economy, as tons of resources will be needed.
 
For crafting, it would be very nice as the skillprogress there is so damn slow.
It would be definately push economy, as tons of resources will be needed.

This seems obvious, since crafters do their work quietly and steadily and don't talk much about what they are getting.... so I guess missions are in the end about the LOUD professions, where we see their results through the chatty hunters, not the silent crafters.

Madness to leave out crafters... absolute madness.
 

Because I don't think its a good idea to have a mission that would put extra pressure on a rare resource. But this is of course my opinion only.
 
once more for the bump!
 
I dunno what else to say, we are somehow trying to distort the missions and the game cos we cannot break into that place that is called MORE PLAYERS.

This solves all our problems.

Skills are only as good as they are needed. hence more players = problem solved.


Anything else = grasping at straws.

Therefore, what do we need to do to get more players? FiN
 
Therefore, what do we need to do to get more players? FiN
I would say make skills even cheaper :laugh:, but good post peezle. Hope MA are watching this thread...
 
I would say make skills even cheaper :laugh:, but good post peezle. Hope MA are watching this thread...

For fooks sake Rufen.

Yes, we have to have more players so our skills have more value. But only this, since our gaming is more fun cos we have more people to deal with.

I love the existing playerbase.. spunky.

But more of us are needed...the essential and basic need. I love who we have now. I just need more is all.
 
No, they are not devaluating skill prices,

If MA gives me large hofs or ATHs, they go directly into eating skill chips :)

So the more skill chips @ better prices and the more HoFs to buy them with the merrier.
 
Therefore, what do we need to do to get more players? FiN

Won't happen if MA is impementing things encouraging pvp, piracy and robbery.....and disregarding the wishes of the mass /casual players who infacts pays the bills for MA.
 
Won't happen if MA is impementing things encouraging pvp, piracy and robbery.....and disregarding the wishes of the mass /casual players who infacts pays the bills for MA.

For example:
You "paying the bills for MA"
Me too, "paying the bills for MA"

You don't want "pvp, robbery and piracy"
I want thermonuclear bomb in that damn carebears sandbox.

Now what?
 
For example:
You "paying the bills for MA"
Me too, "paying the bills for MA"

You don't want "pvp, robbery and piracy"
I want thermonuclear bomb in that damn carebears sandbox.

Now what?

We send you both to the sandbox and then nuke it, of course :lolup:
 
No, they are not devaluating skill prices,

If MA gives me large hofs or ATHs, they go directly into eating skill chips :)

So the more skill chips @ better prices and the more HoFs to buy them with the merrier.

Viper I don't think you read the whole thread, I have since saw you posting comments about more iron challanges that you want added for all mobs, which is also what I wanted & everyone else based on this poll. However the point of this thread is to show KIM what he thinks to be true is really false. In essence this poll is to change KIM's mind so that he will add more challenges "with skill rewards", iron missions should be added.

Some people on this thread have not spotted it & keep talking about adding more people to the game (increase player base etc) but that's not it. Skill rewards are not devaluating the skills market but people are, the lack of players is the main cause, people leaving the game cause they are not happy. Not by challenges, so KIM you can clearly see the results, what's the verdict now? I'd like all mobs on calypso to have missions.
 
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