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bettlejus

bettlejus

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Joan Xperia Dárc
How much is the effort to get from lvl 50 to lvl 100 in hunting professions?

I mean something like 1->50 = 50->60? Has anyone made a measurement on this?

I am curious if I keep playing like I do how much will I advance this year:)
 
You will be amazed how slow it gets.

Subs. Interesting if anyone got any numbers.
 
Should be about the same curve in speed as the curve for TT value of skills as they raise.

So using your example:

From lvl 1 in a skill to level 5000 it's 149.86 PEDs TT in skill.
Adding another 149.86 PEDs TT to 5000, brings it to level 5959.
Adding another 149.86 PEDs TT to 5959, brings it to level 6524.

And so on...

So I'd assume going from lvl 50 to 60 is roughly the same effort as going from 0 to 50.

Of course this is all assuming you're hunting the same mob throughout your entire career since different mobs give different skill gains, but since that is unlikely to say the least, it is fair to assume later levels take unproportionately much longer, because as you get more skilled, you hunt bigger mobs, which give less skillgains.
 
You can get pretty close estimates by playing around with the chipping optimizer. When i remember right last time i did that, i was in the region of 5% or so. Means when you reached lvl 50 you passed around 5% of the neccessary effort to reach lvl 100. Not exactly sure anymore, though
 
Jennson said:
You can get pretty close estimates by playing around with the chipping optimizer. When i remember right last time i did that, i was in the region of 5% or so. Means when you reached lvl 50 you passed around 5% of the neccessary effort to reach lvl 100. Not exactly sure anymore, though
Click to expand...

Chipping out a level skill from 10000 to 1, requires a 2597.01 PED TT ESI.
Dividing 149.86, which is the ESI size chipping out from 5000 would require, by that figure equals in 0,057704822083858.

So reaching level 50 in a pro-standing means you're roughly 6% through to reaching level 100.
 
Huskie said:
Should be about the same curve in speed as the curve for TT value of skills as they raise.

So using your example:

From lvl 1 in a skill to level 5000 it's 149.86 PEDs TT in skill.
Adding another 149.86 PEDs TT to 5000, brings it to level 5959.
Adding another 149.86 PEDs TT to 5959, brings it to level 6524.

And so on...

So I'd assume going from lvl 50 to 60 is roughly the same effort as going from 0 to 50.

Of course this is all assuming you're hunting the same mob throughout your entire career since different mobs give different skill gains, but since that is unlikely to say the least, it is fair to assume later levels take unproportionately much longer, because as you get more skilled, you hunt bigger mobs, which give less skillgains.
Click to expand...

You make a good point here, that was my estimate since I've posted 1->50 = 50-> 60, just wanted another opinion:)
 
optimiser does not help since it calculates the optimal skills and amounts to insert by their value (MU included). but the natural gain comes by the certain percentage - it's well known how they contribute to the professions.

some years ago I made the rough calculations. I think it was when I unlocked combat sense and started aiming at the commando (and beyond). I do not have the calculation at hand right now but the numbers were based on simple facts. for instance, you gain approximately 10 ped tt of the main combat skill with the turnover of ~3400 ped in that profession. since I was only interested to know the ballpark of how many years I have ahead waiting for me, I did not even bother to check the exact numbers - those were roughly correct.

what I do remember from the estimation I made back then it was about 200k ped turnover needed to get from pro level 50 up to 70. and from 50-60 it was maybe around 10% of that total. what I can not recall right now is how much it'd take from 70-100, but it sure is several times more =)

I talked to Jdegre back then if he had any plans to add that (rather simple) functionality to the optimiser and he said he will think about it. I guess it's time to send him a reminder, right? :smoke:


J.
 
Lugzan said:
I talked to Jdegre back then if he had any plans to add that (rather simple) functionality to the optimiser and he said he will think about it. I guess it's time to send him a reminder, right? :smoke:

J.
Click to expand...

It's not quite a simple calculation, many skill and relations must be put in equation, but for a guy like Jdegre who has the formulas for skill progession should be doable:) there is some work to be done nonetheless
 
Lugzan said:
for instance, you gain approximately 10 ped tt of the main combat skill with the turnover of ~3400 ped in that profession.

J.
Click to expand...

Actually, it depends on the mob you're hunting. There are mobs that you can get 10 PED TT of the main combat skill with a LOT less turnover than that.
 


This is a graph of Skill TT versus Skill Count. I got the values from the Entropedia calculator.

According to this you you will have to cycle 25 times the ped used to get to lvl 50 inorder to get to lvl 100
 
Huskie said:
Actually, it depends on the mob you're hunting. There are mobs that you can get 10 PED TT of the main combat skill with a LOT less turnover than that.
Click to expand...

hmm, I was always sure that the skillgain is a constant and that the amount of them by tt are gained exactly by the contribution % to the profession. however, I have been wrong before (once) so you can explain or demonstrate to me where I went wrong with my logic :girl:


restecpa,


J.
 
Lugzan said:
hmm, I was always sure that the skillgain is a constant and that the amount of them by tt are gained exactly by the contribution % to the profession. however, I have been wrong before (once) so you can explain or demonstrate to me where I went wrong with my logic :girl:


restecpa,


J.
Click to expand...

I have very recent data that proves otherwise.

If you need further explanation though here's something a lot of players forget about:

Mobs have a chance to give "skill jackpots" on death. Thus if you manage to kill more mobs within the same amount of PED, you get more jackpots, thus more skills. The bonus size given by these jackpots is dependant on the mob's threat level, so mobs with low HP but higher threat level than mobs with similar HP are the best choice for skilling.

Yes I have hard data to back this up. No, I'd rather not share it, in fact I already gave the most important part away anyway, if people don't know what to do with what I already said, it's their problem, not mine.
 
Nice one Huskie:) Thank you!

Based on that, Scips must be a great mob for skilling Not sure how loot is related to this though

Maybe mobs that gives more skills tend to have bad loot...will check that when I have the money
 
bettlejus said:
Nice one Huskie:) Thank you!

Based on that, Scips must be a great mob for skilling Not sure how loot is related to this though

Maybe mobs that gives more skills tend to have bad loot...will check that when I have the money
Click to expand...

I've always thought scip had overall good loot.., one of my favo mobs.

Small-guard is a remarkably small difference then from domi-stalker it gets harder(stalker is easy in something like tiger and bring a fapper and you'll have a smooth easy run with atleast for me awesome loot)

Hunted them recently in adj pixie+5B and a friend healing with adj sk20 young-prov cheap and easy :D
 
Well, let's get offtopic:)...I went some time ago with Nemesis+5B and they were doable, but if I had 2 on me not to easy...haven't checked in a while especially that I had moved on several levels in Evade now

Araneatrox seems even better for skills
 
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bettlejus said:
Well, let's get offtopic:)...I went some time ago with Nemesis+5B and they were doable, but if I had 2 on me not to easy...haven't checked in a while especially that I had moved on several levels in Evade now

Araneatrox seems even better for skills
Click to expand...

Try kreltin or even better, nuke mobs on RT :)
 
from 50 to 100 level in hunting profession ... prepare for a couple of millions peds needed to be turned :)

It very depends on the mob you hunt and gun you are using of course => how much peds do you turn per hour on certain mob. From my experience, if I hunted mobs with less hp (atrox, formidon, small scipu etc.) I got much more skills than hunting high HP mobs. Compared to e.g. osseocolums, I got about 50% less skills than from scipulors. From e.g. street kings, which have 7k-10k hp, I got just about 30% of skills which I got from scipus ...

I managed to skill from 55 lvl in laser sniper hit to 88 lvl in about a year using imkII (that was quiet hardcore hunting that time :laugh:). I did not make any statistics about how much peds did I turn, but it can be approximately 1,5m peds.

With higher skills, improving your proffesion is going harder and harder.

So to sumarize, from 50 - 90 lvl profession, it can be easily about 2m peds needed to be turned. And from 90 - 100 lvl, my estimation is another 1m peds.

I hope this does not demotivate you :)

Regards,
Charon
 
´CHARON´ said:
I hope this does not demotivate you :)

Regards,
Charon
Click to expand...

No, it's quite a good estimation, I think in about 2 years I can turn 1M peds:) if losses aren't that big
 
I hear you,


yes, I am aware that the mobs might give different bonus amount. but in the same time I guess it is also related to the total cost of hunting. what I mean is, higher threat level will also mean more armor decay. however, armor decay might be something compensated via the loot given back (that is even likely to be the case).

since I've never seen any actual data about the skill bonus and I am not willing to push anyone to open up materials of their own hard work, I can only speculate how big the actual difference could be from it. and while I do not have that information and currently have no reason believing the difference in total gain differs a lot (over 20% for instance), I simply consider skillgain as a constant related to the turnover with a slight +/-.


thanks for the input!


J.

Huskie said:
I have very recent data that proves otherwise.

If you need further explanation though here's something a lot of players forget about:

Mobs have a chance to give "skill jackpots" on death. Thus if you manage to kill more mobs within the same amount of PED, you get more jackpots, thus more skills. The bonus size given by these jackpots is dependant on the mob's threat level, so mobs with low HP but higher threat level than mobs with similar HP are the best choice for skilling.

Yes I have hard data to back this up. No, I'd rather not share it, in fact I already gave the most important part away anyway, if people don't know what to do with what I already said, it's their problem, not mine.
Click to expand...
 
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If you will use weapons for your level and hunt mobs for your level you will skill a lot faster.
It is up for debate how you got to where you are.
If you don't plan to use items for your level, on mobs for your level, your question makes no sense, really, because you will not need more skill than what you already have.

Each level of skill unlocks a new level of the game for you. You can see it happening or not. Is all up to you.
 
If you will use weapons for your level and hunt mobs for your level you will skill a lot faster.
It is up for debate how you got to where you are.
If you don't plan to use items for your level, on mobs for your level, your question makes no sense, really, because you will not need more skill than what you already have.

Each level of skill unlocks a new level of the game for you. You can see it
 
I know Blackhawk, but the thing is one you are lvl 100 you can kill more efficiently different mobs because you are maxed

I will buy a small UL gun for small mobs, a medium one for medium mobs and so on, now I have to always pay MU even if it's just 5% or so for p5a or something

I think you have more liberty in choosing different guns once you maxed those

I will not feel the need to get to lvl 100 if MA will release more SIB UL weapons for medium level or so

Maybe make Maddox or Karma Killer maxxed at lvl 60 would be nice

On a side note, I've just loaded my skill in Jdegre and specified I want to go from lvl 50 to lvl 100 for Laser Pistoller and the cost resulted in chipping is 110K peds (11k USD) nice:)
 
Dont forget

The higher up you get, the harder it is to find and progress to a new stronger gun. So eventually you will be stuck with same gun and wont be able to keep upgrading your cycle/<time frame>.
 
Dhorm said:
The higher up you get, the harder it is to find and progress to a new stronger gun. So eventually you will be stuck with same gun and wont be able to keep upgrading your cycle/<time frame>.
Click to expand...

As all the calculations in this thread are based on TT turnover and not time frame this is already considered. In fact, all relation figures posted here (in example x times from level y to z) ignore the possibility to upgrade dmg/sec.
 
Lugzan said:
currently have no reason believing the difference in total gain differs a lot (over 20% for instance), I simply consider skillgain as the constant related to the turnover as a constant with a slight +/-.
Click to expand...

From MA perspective skills are subtype of loot, and the overall balance is calculated between total decay and total loot.
There's factors that influence the exact ratio between ordinary loot and skills. Most obvious example is SIB/non-SIB items. Scope decay is an example of a factor that works 100% towards skill-loot and 0% towards ordinary loot.
Looks like the skillgains are NOT directly related to (ordinary) loot, or even turnover - this relationship is indirect.

All that said, if we leave out extreme cases, the actual differences in loot/skills ratio might not exceed +/- 20%. Only guessing here, too lazy to do any tests. :)
 
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Reading this makes me think it would be nice if someone were so inclined to suggest full combinations for SIB. We have the weapon sib charts, but to my knowledge no one really suggests what mobs you should be able to hunt with what sib weapon and perhaps what armor you would need to do that at that skill level. Early on its no big deal to figure out what you can hunt.
Mainly because I am nervous about the potential ped cost, I really stopped moving up the sib chart once I hit lr32. Experimenting with bigger guns and bigger mobs seems like an expensive proposition, so I haven't bothered even though I have the skills to use larger guns now.
 
bettlejus said:
I know Blackhawk, but the thing is one you are lvl 100 you can kill more efficiently different mobs because you are maxed

I will buy a small UL gun for small mobs, a medium one for medium mobs and so on, now I have to always pay MU even if it's just 5% or so for p5a or something

I think you have more liberty in choosing different guns once you maxed those

I will not feel the need to get to lvl 100 if MA will release more SIB UL weapons for medium level or so

Maybe make Maddox or Karma Killer maxxed at lvl 60 would be nice

On a side note, I've just loaded my skill in Jdegre and specified I want to go from lvl 50 to lvl 100 for Laser Pistoller and the cost resulted in chipping is 110K peds (11k USD) nice:)
Click to expand...

HL6 was in auction for +2500.
Price is dropping like crazy for UL medium stuff. HL6 is close in DPS to KK. If not better. I don't remember exact the stats. So you don't need KK maxed at a lower level. You have plenty of choices as it is.
P5a at 105% is so cheap is like you pay no markup. Complaining for that markup on an L item is unreasonable.
We all have a level or another of freedom. You are free to use your level at its fullest, and not dream on what you would do if you would be level 100. I can guarantee that when - if ever - you will be level 100, you will do nothing you think now is an option.
 
Geez Hawk, I respect you but it's like you kill my dream of being at lvl 100:)

Anyway this thread was also for some info on costs to get there

But for the sake of all I think we all agree that is better to have a choice of couple of dozens of weapons that you are maxxed on than some 2-3 weapons you can touch at lvl 50 being maxxed ( I am talking about the low MU ones)

And yes, in my opinion is better to pay +500 on KK or Maddox than 2500 for HL6

I don't want to get to lvl 100 in order to use the high dps guns, that cost dearly, I don't think I can afford, but want to go to lvl 100 for small/medium guns in the range of 10-30 DPS

For me using weapons at 40 DPS requires a turnover of about 2-3K peds even higher in order to last, I can't even imagine what that number will be for 70-80 DPS, maybe something like 10K per day minimum

The most important aspect in this game is having the peds buffer to take the bad periods and sel to AH, and the worst decisions are when you wanna play with the big guns but not having enough peds

If I only have 100 peds, let's say, I have to buy some 20-30 ped TT gun (L) that has high MU than the full TT one, if I had one UL weapon like EP-21 Defender I would have put 10 peds repair in it and for the rest bought ammo, that would make some maybe decent run for argo, instead I buy a p5a for way higher MU than 105% and with the little rest I buy ammo, way less than the version with ep-21

That's why I don't agree with MA making non-SIB weapons in range of 2-30 DPS, those should be maxxed at lvl 50 ar most
 
bettlejus said:
Anyway this thread was also for some info on costs to get there
Click to expand...

Is it? Your opening post was about 'effort'. There is no direct correlation between skill volume needed to get to lvl100 and the net costs involved with it. You can progress with profit, break even, at low costs or at massive costs and anything inbetween. At any level, in all three main professions.

You can not extrapolate the costs to go from 50 to 100 from the costs for the first 50 levels. But there is an save way to make it expansive: focusing too much on getting there.
 
That was exactly my point, but it seems is not clear, or you are not willing to get it.

The only PRACTICAL reason to have level 100 or more is to be able to deal the most possible damage.

If your goal is not to deal the maximum possible damage, then you do not need level 100. As simple as that. There are A TON of weapons for lower dps and lower damage. Some of them are really cool.

The fact that you would rather choose weapon X maxed at level 100 over HL6 maxed at low level, only shows that you don't actually care about the real options the game has at any given time, and you would rather dream on what if it would be like this or like that.

I am using Maddox myself. And yes, I am level 100. But I assure you that before I got my maddox, I was using all sort of noob cheap L items. maddox, in reality, is not superior in any way - even when maxed to some of the low level SIB guns. The only reason I use it is because I can. I would feel just fine if they would just remove it from the game tomorrow. I would just choose something else.

BTW... I have a tip for you. If you want to get all unlocks fast, use a blade.
 
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