Long term: Thoughts about mining and loot-behaviour - Discussion

Hi there,

playing this game for 5 years mostly as miner, lately(since vu10) without great motivation/urge to login.

Well, was right from beginnig interested how the system and things work, even tried that crazy rattex-stuff/some other "odd" theories within my first newbie weeks - needless to say without success

Anway I believed from start mining is the best way to lose peds slowly, or earn some profit, searched at amethera for areas with MU(old belkar-route from Rei´s to sakura and then around the LA9, old not-that-overrun oyster, remember when niksa hit almost 200%, etc), found SOTO/beacon from time to time, got even some small ubers, all in all you could make your miner-fortune bit easier compared to nowadays.

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So far the background, back to thoughts about mining&loot, I made large-scaled excel logs from time to time with total bombs dropped, assumed 80-90% return etc bla bla.

Notes:

-There´s a point where your total personal pool(the total amount of ped u spent)gives something "bigger/all" back, you just have to keep up spending ped till it happens, someday it will for sure, that´s maybe the problem, people often can´t sustain/deposit more, keep it up till they get some payback.

-Amps don´t actually make your finds bigger, biggest/whole part of amp-decay counts as additional "bombs", for example amp with 3 ped decay per use+1 real bomb, total of 4 ped spent, what I wanna say is this:

The decay of amps isnt lost, it goes to ur loot pool, u´ve maybe wondered after you used ur amps you go unamped suddenly also some bigger claims pop up. Conclusion:
--> Amps accelerate feeding ur loot pool, bringing it to the point where it triggers, ppl like strash didnt get lucky, that ATH is only return, the amp has only indirectly to do with size, hope you understand, bit complicated.

- Your only real fiend is markup you pay for mining-equipment, if u buy hardcore-amp with 200% MU you have to find a ressource with at least same MU, at least(speaking of ressource-capping dont really recommend 200% amps, just if u wanna go balls to the walls hardcore and find out about the trigger no matter if you go bankrupt...)


Areas like oyster, they are overrun and for sure when that happens you dont find as much as u´re used to find, but if your pool thinks it´s time you will hit big niksarium/belkar no matter how many people dropped bombs before you, that´s fact, most people just dont have the money to kick the pool-wall in the ass.

Know what I wrote there was maybe often said somewhere else, some will also think it´s crap, but it´s mostly not.
I just hope it helps other miners, everything I said here is my own experience after a countless amount of dropped probes/bombs, big parts here also concern hunting/crafting.

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Hope you can understand what I wrote there, it´s always easier to explain in native language, i´ll maybe write some more later, if u ask why because I feel like sharing, it´s still possible with patience and motivation, really like other ppls opinion, discussion and that kinda stuff, hope you take part and say smth, thank you.

Hm, some parts in the middle just disappeard when I posted it, I´ll post them later.

Reserved for some more thoughts, tips, whatever.

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Edited 11. Jan
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Observations, experiments, scattered thougts

- You can drop one bomb after another fast with auto-run+auto-bomb, ur average-hitrate compared to a drop-bomb-wait-drop-bomb-wait-RUN will decrease but as u could read@first post nothing is lost, u try to feed the pool as fast as possible with this kind of mining without paying markup for amps
(Can also put amps on ur finder if u´re insane enough).
-
-->Balls of steel required, as usual nicely filled pocket+MU knowledge helps to survive till it happens.

- I tried that phew times near old sakura/LA9, just droppin bombs, got almost no hits but when I got smth after "enough" tries it was way bigger(XV), maybe I dropped it right in the moment where pool triggers/gives back, but not sure about that.

-
- CND: Solis beans had over 200% and there´s a dome with a pretty nice hitrate/amount of beans, I mined proverbial the sh.t out of that dome just for those, the size-cap of beans is quite, quite high and
it was rly worth it, well, if you look how bean-markup has fallen with time, u can guess I wasnt the only solis-hunter, hehe...
-
-->Bet some wanna know those areas and are too lazy to look mining-charts, Bean-domes:
Dome 8 | 9 | 15 | 19 | Dunno if markup will ever recover to the point where it´s rly worth again.
Can´t remember which dome has best bean-hitrate, u´re welcome to find out.

-->There are also enough solis areas@amethera-etc, like distant-oshiri, just hate mixed matter smt.

-CND: I think CND is awesome&scary at the same time, because u dont have to dig up small claims the whole time, saves a lot of time and nerves(yeh, hit X oil/nothing for eternity also s.cks), can find higher-MU matter/ore without big effort and so on, it´s great for lazy people with some dome-knowledge and oh wonder, deep pocket if trigger wants to annoy you badly.

-For average miner with average budget it´s all about cycle PED till it happens, if u have a "lonely/hitrate" place with nice markup cycle and cycle and cycle and...., (but dont overestimate) it will happen, the whole game is about markup&knowledge&time, outofthenormal-mysterious-luck excluded
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Will write some more later, thx for feedback so far, rly helps me and keep it up

Came to the same conclusion on every single point you made, so you're not alone in your findings.

I agree with your post.

Makes good sense to me.

Excellent post.

Pity that common sense like this is usually absent from the forums.

Could be right about this

Yes,
As the main important thing is to know what to do to make the peds come back , as a global etc,

Always do the unexpected , thats my rule.

Hey

If only we knew when our jackpot was going to pop boy would that help who knows if it's 5k or even 100k.

Fred

Good post, i think this is how it works aswell, the big question is, how long or how much do we need to turn over to hit the trigger to release the loot .

I think a few days, as i went on holiday for 7 days, came back and hit a hof, just under what i had lost a few weeks before...

BaronNuss said:

-There´s a point where your total personal pool(the total amount of ped u spent)gives something "bigger/all" back, you just have to keep up spending ped till it happens, someday it will for sure, that´s maybe the problem, people often can´t sustain/deposit more, keep it up till they get some payback.

Click to expand...

That's why I and probably lot's of other peoples keep chipping out/quitting the game and then decide to return after a while to reclaim that ''mysterious HoF or ATH'' which is waiting for them.

But hey, that's what gambling addicts do too... they dump tons of $$$ on slot machines and even if they decide to quit with a thought that it's not worth it, they still return with a hope for a JACKPOT.
In the end they still lose money. No one can really be rich enough to keep feeding slot-machines till that JACKPOT hits.

Loot=case(lootmining)
lootmining
0-66=0
67-90=0.5*expense*f(A)
91-95=exp*f(A)
96-100=exp*f(A)*h(L)

h*(L)=case(higherloot)
0-50=1*G(ran)
50-75=4*G(ran)
75-87=8*G(ran)
88-91=16*G(ran)
92-93=32*G(ran)


And so forth

Most points I agree, what I do miss though is how is it possible that "new" chars find high value desposits.
I did found on lets say my 100th bomb an ATH back then it was "only" 1.2k"

illi said:

Most points I agree, what I do miss though is how is it possible that "new" chars find high value desposits.
I did found on lets say my 100th bomb an ATH back then it was "only" 1.2k"

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If you think there is a logic gamewise and try to discover it, you'll finish mad..
a gift ? luck? a marketing strategy? a stupid decision?
whatever..
Seems there is only one strategy that works in loot return : stay noob !

Thx for feeback so far, keep it up, second post updated, some more later.

The only thing I find more bizarre than the op is the number of people agreeing.

Where's the evidence man!?


There is this fallacy I like to call the armchair fallacy. It's where people sit in an arm chair and make up things that seem like it could be the case based on scattered, unrecorded and sometimes limited experience and then decide to firmly believe it. You gotta leave your armchair man and do science!
People are especially bad at committing this when it comes to evaluating political policies.

Until people realise that humans suck, it's gonna keep happening.

xillonz said:

The only thing I find more bizarre than the op is the number of people agreeing.

Where's the evidence man!?


There is this fallacy I like to call the armchair fallacy. It's where people sit in an arm chair and make up things that seem like it could be the case based on scattered, unrecorded and sometimes limited experience and then decide to firmly believe it. You gotta leave your armchair man and do science!
People are especially bad at committing this when it comes to evaluating political policies.

Until people realise that humans suck, it's gonna keep happening.

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the evidence is in one or several of MA's computers probably.. but even I, a guy who rarley bring my mining gear out for a drive knows this. I know many others who say exactly the same thing and the best part is that it KEEPS WORKING ALMOST EVERY SINGLE TIME! what more evidence is needed?

mining good MU ores/enmatters makes your ped card happy..

xillonz said:

Where's the evidence man!?

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If you talking about your tracker - you absolutely right.

xillonz said:

The only thing I find more bizarre than the op is the number of people agreeing.

Where's the evidence man!?

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I am afraid I have to agree.

There's nothing here to suggest the existence of a personal loot pool. Of course there's no proof of the opposite either, but that's not the point.

For reference this thread does not appear to agree with your theory, and it's very much more based on scientific analysis of observation:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?132510-Mining-loot-analysis

I am not saying you're wrong, just looking for numbers to support it.

STYRM said:

mining good MU ores/enmatters makes your ped card happy..

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Well of course. I don't think anyone would rather find oil and lyst all day long.

the OP said that its his experience.. not fact.. but all of us agree.. well almost all of us agree.

there is no numbers or analasis.. atleast not on the forum.. who in ther right mind would want to put up their number and teach everyone how to profit? lol

a tip I can give..

mine the same area 1 or 2 times every day. if your doing 2 runs (or even more) you just have to wait a few hours between each run.

this way you get massive stacks of the same stuff to sell. not binding up peds on other ores/enmat that will just lay in storage forever.

this works for me anyway..

STYRM said:

the OP said that its his experience.. not fact.. but all of us agree.. well almost all of us agree.

there is no numbers or analasis.. atleast not on the forum.. who in ther right mind would want to put up their number and teach everyone how to profit? lol

a tip I can give..

mine the same area 1 or 2 times every day. if your doing 2 runs (or even more) you just have to wait a few hours between each run.

this way you get massive stacks of the same stuff to sell. not binding up peds on other ores/enmat that will just lay in storage forever.

this works for me anyway..

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Honestly, I don't think we're reading the same thing from what the OP said. Yes people agree, but if Rattexx is looking for circles he'll see circles - no matter how much proof there is for circles.

I really want to reply. I really do. But I have to agree with op, just randomly drop those bombs! The system will payout!

Konve said:

Well of course. I don't think anyone would rather find oil and lyst all day long.

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Unless they have an addiction to basic filters.

The system is now very different from the circles and spirals of old. That bubble burst ages ago, get over it.

With regards to a guaranteed % payout, the cards are stacked against the poster... Falkao did however suggest that the "system" could fudge the dice so to speak and fix your returns.. (page 17 "http://journals.tdl.org/jvwr/article/download/647/514")

This is extremely worrying as it would imply that :
Return rate is a constant 95% over x probes pre-markup
Skill with regards to the determination of exactly where / when to mine for the purposes of increasing pre-markup loot is negated ie PLAYER SKILLS MEAN NOTHING. This would also negate the need for maps and any other player tool.
No matter how "stupid" the player behind the avatar is, his pre-markup returns over a set time will be the same as any other avatar.

I find this insulting, do you really expect me to believe that the only variable I can control is my markup % simply by picking a different tool and area from another avatar ?

Time will tell.

R4tt3xx said:

No matter how "stupid" the player behind the avatar is, his pre-markup returns over a set time will be the same as any other avatar.

I find this insulting, do you really expect me to believe that the only variable I can control is my markup % simply by picking a different tool and area from another avatar ?

Time will tell.

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Errr, yes. And I don't see any problem with it tbh.

You might call this "simple" (and you're right, it is) but still many ava's don't seem to understand it, even after years of playing EU.

R4tt3xx said:

I find this insulting, do you really expect me to believe that the only variable I can control is my markup % simply by picking a different tool and area from another avatar ?

Time will tell.

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to be able to know what tool works best at what area is what I call an edge and not an insult

If the poster is correct, there are ped making opportunities.

Let's say that the system has to return an avatar to a set % pre-markup success rate. What an avatar would have to simply do is to perform stupid, silly actions that drives this % up, once his / her luck changes, you would simply have to mine at the best of your ability to get max reward, this is much better than mining at a consistent intelligence level as the markup in the end will be much higher.

R4tt3xx said:

If the poster is correct, there are ped making opportunities.

Let's say that the system has to return an avatar to a set % pre-markup success rate. What an avatar would have to simply do is to perform stupid, silly actions that drives this % up, once his / her luck changes, you would simply have to mine at the best of your ability to get max reward, this is much better than mining at a consistent intelligence level as the markup in the end will be much higher.

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good advise. when your doing bad you mine high MU, when you doing good you mine high MU

STYRM said:

good advise. when your doing bad you mine high MU, when you doing good you mine high MU

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Exactly. I hear quite often that people do not go for high markup when they believe they are in their "bad-loot-period", but that's just stupid imo. Even if you only get 50% tt back (compared to your tt cost), it's still better to get 130% for that loot than just 105% or so.

R4tt3xx said:

I find this insulting, do you really expect me to believe that the only variable I can control is my markup % simply by picking a different tool and area from another avatar ?

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Have you heard of slots? Are the people playing them sitting there, complaining about their lack of control? Maybe the addicts would, but I think most people understand that they have no control, and they are okay with that.

Perhaps the slot addicts and the EU gambling addicts ain't so different.

Also: we have a kind of a control in EU that slot players don't. Read this very thread (in fact, read your own posts) and you might find what that is.

R4tt3xx said:

If the poster is correct, there are ped making opportunities.

Let's say that the system has to return an avatar to a set % pre-markup success rate. What an avatar would have to simply do is to perform stupid, silly actions that drives this % up, once his / her luck changes, you would simply have to mine at the best of your ability to get max reward, this is much better than mining at a consistent intelligence level as the markup in the end will be much higher.

Click to expand...

Wow, you finally got it, gz !