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$213,784 Total July Land Sales

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MA means probably every PED circulating within EU.

And i am sure they count each PED multiple times.

Like every PED from each Loot.
Then each PED from every trade or purchase from wich a huge part already comes from loot and so on and so on.

So if i buy 100 PED Ammo, get 75 PED loot and buy ammo from that my turnover is already 250 PED.
Maybe they even add the 100 PED i had first to it, wich would make 350 PED, since there is a huge difference in PED and tt ammo. ;)

I think its called creative accounting. ;)

With my lousy 500 PED deposit even i probably had a turnover of 100k PED. :)
 
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MindBuster said:
Could we please discuss the article as to what it is instead of turning it into a "let's bash MA" thread ?

There were no one complaining when we had our own thread/announcement about it here , but as soon as it's MindArk themselfes announcing it you start attacking immediatly, please stop that, thanks.
Click to expand...

People here see it as propaganda and they are discussing it in that respect - 'for what it is'.
They see it as propaganda because MA write how lovely pe is to the press when most people are at breaking point with MA's total lack of respect for its customers.

Also as you pointed out, its already been discussed at ef - from players perspective, not something made pretty for the press.

What else is left to discuss about it?
 
Its great to see our beutiful universe going from strength to strength, go go go MA keep up the good stuff:)

on a side note...

there seem to be a lot of <other game> trolls posting on these forums, i recomend permenant forum bans for these entropia haters :eek:
 
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Great news, MA made a lot of money!! I am so happy! :birthday:
 
So, does this mean MA is back from vacation? woot...and conclude the egg story already. Make that Atrox Jr. pop out and dance in the disco. We need a new quest...a quest for more PED :)
 
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NDaleramai said:
Turnover is simply the value of all of the economic interactions inside the system. It is the value of all deposits, trades, globals, auctions, etc. It shows how much "action" there was in the virtual economy. For 2005, there being $165,000,000 worth of turnover? I can believe it. NEVERDIE fronted $100,000, several others deposited money for the asteroid, people deposited, traded, auctioned, and continued to develop their avatars.
Click to expand...


That is normally what I would consider turnover, but the quote for the article says "In 2005, the Entropia Universe turnover (amount of virtual Project Entropia Dollars converted back into real world currency) was estimated at $165,000,000 US dollars."

Somehow, $165M was converted BACK into real currency. Is this just an accounting trick? Are all peds converted back to real currency at some point? I don't know. All I know is $165M is a a HECK of a lot of LA's...and I don't see 400 different people bidding on them.
 
wanda said:
What else is left to discuss about it?
Click to expand...

I'm just trying to get Column A to match Column B. It may have been a misquote...dunno. The only way to solve this is a real, hard answer from MA...which, well, y'know... :)

I am content in that fact that hype or not, it gets new players in the game. I just hope MA gives us the tools we need to help them stay and enjoy it.

...


Ok....*clap, clap* lets move it people! Shuttles are arriving! Let's go greet the new arrivals... ;)
 
Damn so much negativity...Of course this article is PR.... just as much as it is fact. With a fact like that people want to know about, write about, look at. It is pioneering in many ways, I dont doubt that this money will go towards the game in some manner, servers, employees, features, that is whatever they havnt left in the economy itself (since players bought these within the economy, it theoretically stays in).

As far as I know, MA's actual income is limited to decay,some fees ect, anything else is up for grabs ingame. Anyone else notice 3 ATH's occur in the weeks since? totalling 40+k us? Not to mention even more for us in the form of ad money...which just started, and will build up as well.

To conclude...Im glad to see the article...the more money that gets placed into the economy the better...and the more noobs we can get the better :).....for all.
 
MindBuster said:
Could we please discuss the article as to what it is instead of turning it into a "let's bash MA" thread ?

There were no one complaining when we had our own thread/announcement about it here , but as soon as it's MindArk themselfes announcing it you start attacking immediatly, please stop that, thanks.
Click to expand...

There big diference between the thread made by player and the anounce made by MA.
Player was speaking about the LA only .. and i see those player often in forum.

I dont see much MA around , they come back from holliday , there godzillion support to reply , cash card that dont work .... lots of player wait for they withdraw to come ,there bug that make material to disapear and we are not compasate it , loot go down and up , but they are very often low ...And first things they do when they com back is braging about how much money they ganaid ...
I dont think its the best way to calm down player.
And we both now , this kind of advert wont bring player , but only whiner.
People who will think make lots of money in PE is piece of cake...
Thats kind of advert have nothing positif , nor for the game , nor for the economie , neither for the loot , of for the lag ... that will improve nothing , that will just remplace the cash cow that left the game with new whiner... nothing good for us , only for MA.


Frigid said:
"In 2005, the Entropia Universe turnover (amount of virtual Project Entropia Dollars converted back into real world currency) was estimated at $165,000,000 US dollars."

That seems pretty straightforward. I am a bit dubious of the amount. They do not say anything either way, but the implication is that PLAYERS have withdrawn enough peds to convert into $165M USD. If $165M was converted back inot cash by the thousands of active players(not hundreds of thousands of accounts opened in a free game), we'd all be freakin' rich!

I was just musing about other ways this amount could have come to be...like MA extracting PEDS in the repair terminals and using that "income" to pay their bills.

Players cash out, players use their ATM's, but $165M is a bold claim...i need to see a balance sheet.

In this context, they say "the amount of virtual Project Entropia Dollars converted back into real world currency.", so this doesn't include deposits. If
1.65 BILLION PEDS have been converted back to real money, I am simply curious where it is.

A big chunck of this may be going back to MA to cover their costs...but saying:
Click to expand...

Read again the sentence , and think like MA doing PR.
First this is how MA see the turn over.Thats money that turn in the game.
Let us recall what MA call turn over.Its the amount of trade through auction that have be made in the game.
If an mk5 is bouth and sell 5 time in row for 5k ped , the turn over is 25k ped...Thats how it was explained last time MA come braging with number , by marco and player that are economist.
I am far from economist , but its what i had understand last time.
Also , read what MA write :

"In 2005, the Entropia Universe turnover (amount of virtual Project Entropia Dollars converted back into real world currency) was estimated at $165,000,000 US dollars."
In french , what is inside the () can be remouved , its used to bring more info on the subject , but it can be total remouved without altering the meaning.so left :
"In 2005, the Entropia Universe turnover was estimated at $165,000,000 US dollars."
And read they say "was" and " estimated" , so that mean this is an old figure.In french , i would wait for the actual estimation following..
You dont give a old figure if you dont have the new one... and usual , you brag about how finally you are better than your old figure :)

Now , lets have a look about the content of the () : (amount of virtual Project Entropia Dollars converted back into real world currency).
That mean for me , the number they give you is converted back in real world curency AKA US$ , they dont give you the turn over in PED , because this PR is not for player , its for people who have no clue about PE , so better speak to them in real world curency.

PS: i tryed to find the old marco post about that subject , aka the turn over they posted in 2005 for 2004.
But its seems there are missing marco post , or i am dumb in searching , or maybe i need to be prenium members , but i can not find older post than 02-09-2006, 09:06 AM.
So if someone more skilled than me can take a look to the subject from last year it would be nice
 
There is a difference between someone who points out the flaws that need to be fixed and someone who bashes MA and EU with every chance they get.

The people who bash MA and EU non-stop are the ones that are hurting this "game" more then anyone or anything else.

They cause MA to go numb to our needs and wants, and they scare away new players who would have otherwise contributed to the EU economy and community.

When you complain all of the time people just stop listening
 
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gekkegerrit said:
Its great to see our beutiful universe going from strength to strength, go go go MA keep up the good stuff:)

on a side note...

there seem to be a lot of <other game> trolls posting on these forums, i recomend permenant forum bans for these entropia haters :eek:
Click to expand...

YES! Let's all ignore the world outside! THERE IS NO SPOON!
 
Etopia said:
There big diference between the thread made by player and the anounce made by MA.
Player was speaking about the LA only .. and i see those player often in forum.

I dont see much MA around , they come back from holliday , there godzillion support to reply , cash card that dont work .... lots of player wait for they withdraw to come ,there bug that make material to disapear and we are not compasate it , loot go down and up , but they are very often low ...And first things they do when they com back is braging about how much money they ganaid ...
I dont think its the best way to calm down player.
And we both now , this kind of advert wont bring player , but only whiner.
People who will think make lots of money in PE is piece of cake...
Thats kind of advert have nothing positif , nor for the game , nor for the economie , neither for the loot , of for the lag ... that will improve nothing , that will just remplace the cash cow that left the game with new whiner... nothing good for us , only for MA.




Read again the sentence , and think like MA doing PR.
First this is how MA see the turn over.Thats money that turn in the game.
Let us recall what MA call turn over.Its the amount of trade through auction that have be made in the game.
If an mk5 is bouth and sell 5 time in row for 5k ped , the turn over is 25k ped...Thats how it was explained last time MA come braging with number , by marco and player that are economist.
I am far from economist , but its what i had understand last time.
Also , read what MA write :

"In 2005, the Entropia Universe turnover (amount of virtual Project Entropia Dollars converted back into real world currency) was estimated at $165,000,000 US dollars."
In french , what is inside the () can be remouved , its used to bring more info on the subject , but it can be total remouved without altering the meaning.so left :
"In 2005, the Entropia Universe turnover was estimated at $165,000,000 US dollars."
And read they say "was" and " estimated" , so that mean this is an old figure.In french , i would wait for the actual estimation following..
You dont give a old figure if you dont have the new one... and usual , you brag about how finally you are better than your old figure :)

Now , lets have a look about the content of the () : (amount of virtual Project Entropia Dollars converted back into real world currency).
That mean for me , the number they give you is converted back in real world curency AKA US$ , they dont give you the turn over in PED , because this PR is not for player , its for people who have no clue about PE , so better speak to them in real world curency.

PS: i tryed to find the old marco post about that subject , aka the turn over they posted in 2005 for 2004.
But its seems there are missing marco post , or i am dumb in searching , or maybe i need to be prenium members , but i can not find older post than 02-09-2006, 09:06 AM.
So if someone more skilled than me can take a look to the subject from last year it would be nice
Click to expand...

argh!
I was to quote, and write exactly the things you point out in your post but I saw that you was first writing it.
Soo, I think you got it all in that post and thats it! Really nice to see some scepticism towards MA. They DO have to think about what they are doing. Read Etopias list of "things to be done before bragging about money"!
Ashame!

I do also realize that everyone working at MAHQ cannot deal with only supportmessages, only the ATM cards or the ingame infrastructure only.
But for god sake? If you know that the vacation period a time when your spammed with Support letters about such as ordinary bugs and problems, and the ATM card! Don't ever release something big and run off for a 4-6 weeks long vacation, leaving only a few support persons at MAHQ. Ashame again!

MA! You have to think before you act! I think your vision of this games economy such as in your pockets and ours are a lot of crap..crapcrap..


This turned out to be a bit oftopic, but I really had to get those things said as many others. Sorry :)
 
MA have a licence to print money - employee needs a new car? Create a new LA and watch the usual suspects bid for it.

then ...

Create a press release about the tiny minority who can afford to purchase the virtual land, add a little spin and lo and behold, everyone in the 'game' has a chance of owning a chunk of Amethera! New players will flock to the 'game', PA will get laggy again, and a bunch of noobs will be hanging around Camp Phoenix asking everyone else if they have anything spare they can have (anything? please? I'll take it off your hands! ARRGGGG noobs!! :mad: ) and wondering where the money is.

MA will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Wish I was a shareholder :(
 
Etopia said:
PS: i tryed to find the old marco post about that subject , aka the turn over they posted in 2005 for 2004.
But its seems there are missing marco post , or i am dumb in searching , or maybe i need to be prenium members , but i can not find older post than 02-09-2006, 09:06 AM.
So if someone more skilled than me can take a look to the subject from last year it would be nice
Click to expand...

I found this post: http://entropia-pioneers.kicks-ass.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13330&highlight=2004+project+entropia
It has partial info of 2004.

This is the Annual Report for 2005, but it would not download for me. It should contain what you are looking for: http://www.mindark.com/docs/reports/MindArk_AR_ENGx.pdf
 
Frigid said:
Somehow, $165M was converted BACK into real currency. Is this just an accounting trick? Are all peds converted back to real currency at some point? I don't know. All I know is $165M is a a HECK of a lot of LA's...and I don't see 400 different people bidding on them.
Click to expand...

Well the accounts do not suggest that $165 million was withdrawn http://www.mindark.com/docs/reports/MindArk_AR_ENGx.pdf

I've been examining them again.

Total Gross Deposits into EU for 2005 was 47,320,820 PED
Total Gross Deposits into EU for 2004 was 29,072,475 PED
Total Gross Deposits into EU for 2003 was 6,492,297 PED

I'm more likely to trust the accounts then the press release too be honest as theres far larger penalties for lying on it ;-)

Total Withdrawals are highlighted on page 14:
The company’s revenues consist of the cash funds supplied by users of the Entropia Universe.
The net revenues are presented in the income statement after the deduction of user requested reimbursements.

(Note: This is now in SEK and not US$)
Gross Revenues:
2005: 31,340,790
2004: 17,780,672

Reimbursements:
2005: -3,122,038
2004: -872 788

Net Sales:
2005: 28,218,752
2004: 16,907,884

From the Net Sales of 28,218,752, EU made an operating profit of 6,543,950 SEK.

One thing to note, the accounts show that MA are taking ALL cash deposited into EU to do their accounts. Its not just decay they are taking.
 
If MindArk's care for money would be equaled by their care for the game, I would be happy.

And yea, I am glad they sold for that much, is some good sign from some point of view.
 
Dannen said:
MA have a licence to print money - employee needs a new car? Create a new LA and watch the usual suspects bid for it.

then ...

Create a press release about the tiny minority who can afford to purchase the virtual land, add a little spin and lo and behold, everyone in the 'game' has a chance of owning a chunk of Amethera! New players will flock to the 'game', PA will get laggy again, and a bunch of noobs will be hanging around Camp Phoenix asking everyone else if they have anything spare they can have (anything? please? I'll take it off your hands! ARRGGGG noobs!! :mad: ) and wondering where the money is.

MA will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Wish I was a shareholder :(
Click to expand...

Actually, everyone in the game does have a chance to own land. If you currently lack the financial wherewithal in real life to deposit and then buy a land area then earn the money in the game one ped at a time.

Owning a land area is the TOP investment in this game. In real life can you start at the top? Is your first job as a kid the CEO of a large company? Unless you are among the fortunate few who are lucky to be given what they have by people who have worked hard then you must start at the bottom and work hard yourself and if you are successful at this then you will have amassed some wealth that you can pass on to whom ever you choose.

If you choose to spend your money on skilling then that’s your choice. If you choose to spend you money on in-game cloths, apartments, art, furniture, and expensive weapons that you don’t fully understand then that’s your choice too. If you choose to invest small amounts here and there in order to turn those small investments into big investments then that’s your choice as well.

First you must accumulate and SAVE money before you will have enough of it to invest in something big.

There are HONEST ways to resell and trade. I made 20,000 PED in a few months just through buying and selling the stupidest stuff you could imagine... art, furniture, and decorations. When I had a shop I made about 10K ped, and when I sold that stuff on the auction I made another 10K PED. I bought entire apartments and estates full of furniture and crap from people who were selling out. They were more then willing to sell it at just under market value because they were getting rid of it all at once and they knew that I was just going to resell it. Because I bought and sold at fair prices people came to me. I didn’t need a shop, I didn’t need to advertise, I had built a reputation as a good and honest trader and people thanked me for it.

...Don’t think you are going to make it big in the furniture market during the summer though, it’s very slow at the moment in this market and that’s why I got out.

If you are smart enough, you CAN sustain your self through hunting and your can even make money consistently... then when you are lucky enough to hit a few BIG loots maybe you can change from being a full time hunter into being a land owner.

There are people who consistently make money through crafting and mining as well.

Although the options for making PED in this game are limited they DO exist.
You can choose to figure them out, just play and have fun, come on the forum and whine, or just quit the game. Personally I don’t care what you do just as long as you don’t come here and whine about it.

I really don’t understand how envy and jealousy of other people’s wealth turn into an entitlement mentality with some people.
 
Its a nice bit of press for MA and gratz the game is taking off, However with support tickets going 2 weeks unanswered and bugs such as the bot bug going unfixed spending the time to make a press release on land sales is a little off.

Its good for all of us that MA is doing well but MA gives the impression that the press views are more important than the player views which is not good.

I would love to see a press release like this :

Mindark eliminates all bugs and has the first bug free online universe.

Wouldnt that be nice and would attract far more people!
 
Asti said:
I found this post: http://entropia-pioneers.kicks-ass.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13330&highlight=2004+project+entropia
It has partial info of 2004.

This is the Annual Report for 2005, but it would not download for me. It should contain what you are looking for: http://www.mindark.com/docs/reports/MindArk_AR_ENGx.pdf
Click to expand...


Thanks , but its not what i look for.
I rememnber that when marco posted som PR number 1 year ago , he spoke about turnover , and after som post to clarify the whole things , he explained , it was the "in game auction turnover" ... and so , its not hard to bring very big number that mean nothing with such a figure as auction turnover.
 
2 observations:

* Buyout on a new ultra-mega-land sale in the end of the year would be around $500000 now :rolleyes:

* MA will open all Amethera within 1 year time :laugh:

:coffee:
 
well done MA, more new player, more worldwide coverage, more profit for them maybe they can hire a few new 'top level' ppl

good job :D
 
Sonya Heart said:
Its a nice bit of press for MA and gratz the game is taking off, However with support tickets going 2 weeks unanswered and bugs such as the bot bug going unfixed spending the time to make a press release on land sales is a little off.

Its good for all of us that MA is doing well but MA gives the impression that the press views are more important than the player views which is not good.

I would love to see a press release like this :

Mindark eliminates all bugs and has the first bug free online universe.

Wouldnt that be nice and would attract far more people!
Click to expand...

I agree, bugs and support can be frustrating. However, this press release probably didn’t tie up the ENTIRE MindArk staff. Infact it probably consisted of just a phone call between the press company and a Mind Ark official.

Personally I don’t think Mind Ark does enough to promote this game. If Mind Ark did focus more on getting new players then they would have more revenue which would allow them to hire more staff, implement new servers, which would further empower them to deal with issues as they arise.

More players in the game = More money in the game

More money in the game = More opportunities for you and me

More opportunities for you and me = More players that stay in EU longer.

More players that stay in EU longer = More stable revenue for MA

More stable revenue for MA = More investors

More investors = more wherewithal to develop infrastructure and R&D

More infrastructure and R&D = More features, options, better support, less bugs, etc

More features, options, better support, less bugs, etc = More players in the game

It’s all a big circle but you can’t have the chicken before you have the egg.

This “bash MA” mentality that so many people have is contagious and blown out of proportion and it scares away people who would have otherwise participated in EU which ends up costing ME and YOU money in the game and limits our in-game enjoyment.
 
HardWrath said:
This “bash MA” mentality that so many people have is contagious and blown out of proportion and it scares away people who would have otherwise participated in EU which ends up costing ME and YOU money in the game and limits our in-game enjoyment.
Click to expand...

very good post and totally agree :)

also this bashing makes me and other ppl feel negative about EU when they read all this crap !!
 
HardWrath said:
This “bash MA” mentality that so many people have is contagious and blown out of proportion and it scares away people who would have otherwise participated in EU which ends up costing ME and YOU money in the game and limits our in-game enjoyment.
Click to expand...

Why not just face the fact that if MA had done something that could have prevent people from "bashing" - and it only required fixing the problems there are in game - then THAT would have done something about the in-game enjoyment! You don't have to play for long to see that bugs and other issues are preventing people in having fun - and that might be the biggest reason for people to leave.

I didn't deposit for over a year just to suddenly decide this wasn't the way I wanted to "spend" my money? You can choose to close your eyes towards the truth or you can choose to make the company aware of the problems there are - to make it better because you have been a part of this for so long! After several support cases and other "soft" methods it can be real hard to find other ways to communicate, than to try on the forums.
 
Lykke said:
Why not just face the fact that if MA had done something that could have prevent people from "bashing" - and it only required fixing the problems there are in game - then THAT would have done something about the in-game enjoyment! You don't have to play for long to see that bugs and other issues are preventing people in having fun - and that might be the biggest reason for people to leave.

I didn't deposit for over a year just to suddenly decide this wasn't the way I wanted to "spend" my money? You can choose to close your eyes towards the truth or you can choose to make the company aware of the problems there are - to make it better because you have been a part of this for so long! After several support cases and other "soft" methods it can be real hard to find other ways to communicate, than to try on the forums.
Click to expand...

I agree, but also there is a time and place for everything. What is going here in this thread is nothing more then "MA Bashing" This is a thread about a success MA had, we should stay on topic and try to discuss and interpret this success.

If someone has a specific instance of an issue then they should make a new thread and in that thread they should list the problem along with their idea of a solution. If MA did them wrong then they should tell how MA could make it right with them.

Like every person, like every company, and like everything else, MA is not perfect.

MA does have problems, this game does have problems but at the same time MA does have good points, and this game does have good points. For some people the bad points outweigh the good points and they leave. For others the good points outweigh the bad points and they stay. But some people who have left the game linger around on the forum to bash MA. Some people who simply walk around in the game and do NOTHING spend much of their time here bashing MA.

I don’t have any respect for the people who look for every opportunity to bash MA and bash this game

I am in no way a "fan boy" of MA but at the same time I like this game and as long as im here I want to make it better. Bashing MA with every opportunity wont help any of us... it will only make our voices smaller to them.
 
and so your point hardwrath is lets aplause MA when they come after 2 month silent with som som cheated number for comunication...

I would prefert they spend that time to write something about cash card fee , or say to player they are back from vacantion and will start to do the suport job again ...
I think before braging around how much money you gain with fake cheated number , they should make an anounce on the site or on CL to player about what is going in the compagnie now.
 
HardWrath said:
If someone has a specific instance of an issue then they should make a new thread and in that thread they should list the problem along with their idea of a solution. If MA did them wrong then they should tell how MA could make it right with them.
Click to expand...

MA bashing threads are not allowed here and almost any thread started with the view of improving things degenerates into total bashing, thats why people will take the opertunity to voice concerns in threads such as these when they can.

My only problem with EU is the bugs, I waste alot of time due to them (notice i said time which to me is more important than peds) It can be very frustraiting.

Saying that bugs should be fixed in a thread about land sales is near valid really. Someone at MA had the time to create the LA's, someone had the time to place them on auction. Although this may be a simple procedure call it was done. Now theoretically the money from LA's goes to the loot pool, would explains all the ATH's in 2 days lol.

However time was spent there to create a press release as a goal. Why not have spent the time fixing at least one of the bugs (bot bug for example). I and the 90% of the playerbase that couldnt/wouldnt participate in the land auctions would have appreciated it more.

Like I said before, MA seems to care more about what the press thinks than what we do. This is not a good impression to give your players.
 
HardWrath said:
I agree, but also there is a time and place for everything. What is going here in this thread is nothing more then "MA Bashing" This is a thread about a success MA had, we should stay on topic and try to discuss and interpret this success.

If someone has a specific instance of an issue then they should make a new thread and in that thread they should list the problem along with their idea of a solution. If MA did them wrong then they should tell how MA could make it right with them.

Like every person, like every company, and like everything else, MA is not perfect.

MA does have problems, this game does have problems but at the same time MA does have good points, and this game does have good points. For some people the bad points outweigh the good points and they leave. For others the good points outweigh the bad points and they stay. But some people who have left the game linger around on the forum to bash MA. Some people who simply walk around in the game and do NOTHING spend much of their time here bashing MA.

I don’t have any respect for the people who look for every opportunity to bash MA and bash this game

I am in no way a "fan boy" of MA but at the same time I like this game and as long as im here I want to make it better. Bashing MA with every opportunity wont help any of us... it will only make our voices smaller to them.
Click to expand...

Again, you can ask yourself how it came to this that not even people on this forum can "enjoy" MA's "success" anymore? Personally I am not the type of person who nods and smile if there is nothing to smile at. A forum shows the voice of the community. If a company want's to have some sort of feeling about how their business are going, they should listen to the community - because no matter what, WE are the one making the weels going round. Putting make up on the "face of MA" just make things worse.

And the idea about making threads to point out to MA what to do and not to do - about problems and solvations is getting kind of old. It doesn't work! We are spending our money in a game which company obviously earns a lot on that - but time has shown that they are not spending that money to solve things and make it all better for us, their customers. Dunno - in my world that is frustrating and I think its fair to let MA see that!

I respect people who openly shows what is on their mind and people who are not pushing things underneat the carpet because it "looks better"!
 
Etopia said:
So far , we see all time the same that speak.
MA , ND , Deathifier...
Maybe its time to wake up som journalist , and invite them to read this forum ...( they can not read MA forum there is not) ...
Click to expand...

THis is a realy good idea.!!+rep The point of view of the comon player..
 
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