Scammed: Never thought it would happen to me (bug in EU?)

Well, I never thought this would happen to me, but on Wednesday afternoon I was scammed .

Now I know what the majority of you are thinking... here goes another newbie falling for the same old tricks... but this is not the case. While I am definitely not uber, I've been around the block a few times. And this scam points out a potential weakness in EU that can be exploited by scammers. Perhaps this is old news to you, but this particular event seemed to be news to older players I have described this to. And by the way, I have screenshots .

I will quote the message I submitted to EU support below for those of you who are interested in the specific details. For those who aren't, simply skip it.

Dear Sir or Madam

Yesterday at roughly 14:00 GMT (MA time) I was scammed by the avatar "nickname removed by Moderator" at Port Atlantis.

At first she bought a full set of Pixie armour (f) from me which was a legitimate trade.

Then she expressed interest in my Mind Essence with a tt value of 30.00 PED. During the trade she repeatedly removed her PEDs, blaming lag. However, finally things seemed to be in order as the blue receipt window showed the 65 PEDs she had offered for the Mind Essence (as well as my Mind Essence).

I was under the impression that at this stage (once all items are shown in the blue receipt window) it was impossible to get scammed... I always advise my disciples and other new players to always double check the blue receipt window as per MindArks instructions: "Also make sure the deal you have confirmed is correctly presented in the receipt window, before you accept and close the deal." (http://www.entropiauniverse.com/en/rich/5307.html - How can I prevent a scam, #4).

However, after clicking accept, the deal was confirmed but I did not receive the 65 PED. The other avatar (nickname removed by moderator) claimed to also not have received the Mind Essence.

Fortunately I have screenshots of the dialogue and whole trade which I will submit to abuse@mindark.com once I have received a support case number.

Please take appropriate action against this avatar and the person behind it:

(1) I would be pleased if MindArk were able to remove the 30PED of Mind Essence from the nicname removed by moderator and return it to me, but I understand that she/he might already have disposed of it.

(2) I would be grateful if MindArk would lock the avatar nickname removed by moderator

(3) I would be even more impressed if MindArk took a strong stance and blocked the real life person behind the avatar from ever creating an avatar and participating in Entropia Universe again.

Thank you kindly
{Real life name}
(Avatar: John Mac McCraight)

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For those of you who want the short version:

The scammer "nickname removed by moderator" began with the usual tactic of adding then removing their PEDs very quickly, hoping I'd bite and accept the trade without looking. By this time I had already grown suspicious and was taking numerous screenshots.

The troubling bit is this: finally the blue receipt window showed her (his?) PEDs and my goods, as per usual trade. I was under the impression that when a trade reached this stage, you could no longer be scammed as items can no longer be withdrawn. However, upon clicking "accept deal" my goods were transfered to the scammer, without a corresponding transfer of her PEDs. (Please see the screenshot to verify this for yourself.) After reviewing the pics, it seems that the scammer was able to remove their items from the trade and yet get the blue receipt window to show them--as if the trade were legitimate!

picture removed by moderator

here is a sanitised version:
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Thus far MA has responded with what seems to be a standard response and has said nothing about the potential weakness in EU this scam seems to reveal:

Hi,
We are sorry to hear that you have been exposed to this. However, if or when a participant loses money or items due to a scam, these items/PEDs are lost and cannot be retrieved. It is not possible for us to evaluate what has happened. Our log files do not indicate any illegal activities. The transaction is registered as a usual trade and does not show any irregularities.

You need to be aware of that if you give your items to other avatars, you cannot be certain to get them back, even though your trade partner has made such a promise. If you accept such an agreement, you take the risk of losing your items. Even though the Entropia Universe is a virtual universe, there is real value involved in each trade and you must use your own judgement as if this was a real life agreement.

Since items in the Entropia Universe have a real value you should be able to file a police report about lost items due to a scam. If the local police should contact us, we will cooperate with them and submit all available logs we have.

Regards,
Entropia Support

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The case is still logged as "In Progress" so hopefully I will get a better response than this. Granted, the value of my loss is relatively low--about 60PED market value. However, this experience has somewhat soured my already flagging experience with EU and does not bode well for the future security of transactions (which make the wheels of EU go round...)

See next post for screenshots...

Ehm, your breaking like 45873 forum rules

Witte said:

Ehm, your breaking like 45873 forum rules

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and im greatful for it and will keep a close eye on the blue window!

May be breaking rules but still does not bode well. It`s a dangerous world out there and I guess the virtual world is no different. Too bad you were scammed. And even worse that there seems to be no recourse. File a police report? What a joke!

SODERD said:

and im greatful for it and will keep a close eye on the blue window!

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Yeh the warning is a good one. But I suggest John removes the names in the screenies and his post, so others can see them too (else the get removed).

About the bug, its seems like somthing is realy messed up. I hope MA comes with some better answer. The screenie clearly shows there is something wrong.

Well the screenshot (before removal) clearly shows that the other person offered ped and it was removed however the confirmation box shows that the ped is still there,

Pretty obvious its a bug.

With this info I would be interested in MA's thoughts on the screenshot.

Moderators note:

Well Witte was a bit faster on replying then I was on moderating

I removed the name of the accused and the screenshot as per our "no naming, no shaming" policy.
But since this was a rather weird form for scam/tradebug Ill keep the thread open.

Carry on!

sorry to hear you got scammed and i also thought once you had the recipt showing items you could not remove them

so it is valuable information here

I agree that once the blue window appears in the middle, the windows on the left should become locked - and at that point it is safe to go ahead with the trade.

I would say this is a bug and one which MA need to have a good go at replicating in-house.

Thats a serious bug in my opinion. Not only should you be refunded, but you should be rewarded by Mindark for bringing this to their attention.

Its at least as serious as the auction 101 in my opinion. The reporter of that received a handsome reward if I recall correctly.


Lets hope MA do the right thing over this and get it fixed.

hmm... it took me a long time to put this post together, and Mods, I researched the rules on naming, all I found was this post:

UPDATED: Read HERE first
This Security/Scamming subforum is for discussion about how you can protect your computer and yourself ingame, it is not meant as a hall of shame, please leave out any scammer names from the thread titles, you can mention them inside the threads for discussion.

/edit

The old rule of No Hall of Shame lists still apply, the forum is intended for individual cases.
Last edited by MindBuster : 06-11-2006 at 01:54 AM.

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Do I really have to go and edit all those pics? Surely a screenshot of a scam in progress should be allowed?

Nevertheless, thanks for not deleting my post. If you (Mods) insist, I will edit a few of the pics as this is a very troubling exploit.

Thanks
John

also

Also that could be construed as exploiting a known bug without reporting it, another violation of the EULA on that avatars part. I'd go ahead and edit the photo's to get rid of the moderators alt scamming you though

They will remove it so scammers can stay anonymous, but still show that you got scammed pointing you out as a future target again.

John said:

hmm... it took me a long time to put this post together, and Mods, I researched the rules on naming, all I found was this post:



Do I really have to go and edit all those pics? Surely a screenshot of a scam in progress should be allowed?

Nevertheless, thanks for not deleting my post. If you (Mods) insist, I will edit a few of the pics as this is a very troubling exploit.

Thanks
John

Click to expand...

The only pic thats you need to show is where the recepy window shows you get peds, but the trade box is empty.

BTW, I dont think this realy is a very serious bug. It happens very very rarely, and if you pay attention you can prevent it from happening. But it is somthing people should be aware of. And MA should acknowledge it, and FIX IT!

If you receive the "lag" excuse, invite the avatar into a quiet spot, like East Scylla.

However, if somebody tries to remove peds more than once (when it can happen by accident), i would stop trading immediately.

John said:

hmm... it took me a long time to put this post together, and Mods, I researched the rules on naming, all I found was this post:



Do I really have to go and edit all those pics? Surely a screenshot of a scam in progress should be allowed?

Nevertheless, thanks for not deleting my post. If you (Mods) insist, I will edit a few of the pics as this is a very troubling exploit.

Thanks
John

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Here's the link:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49011



You could, as others said, just post the picture of the blue reciept screen, but with the name of the accused cencored (modify in photoshop or mspaint or some other program)

Thanks for all the positive comments, it makes me feel a little better .

I have edited my first post and added a sanitised picture so as to protect the identity of the avatar that victimised me. Wow, EU is closer to real life than I thought, .

John said:

Thanks for all the positive comments, it makes me feel a little better .

I have edited my first post and added a sanitised picture so as to protect the identity of the avatar that victimised me. Wow, EU is closer to real life than I thought, .

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Well your not even sure if its a bug or a scam. What if it was a bug, and the other person experienced the same thing - and he/she would have a similar thread about you?

I'd also be really angry if some scammer got away with my 6 bucks

I can still ID her by her face

(j/k )

Hi Mac,

Firstly let me say - really sorry for your loss mate. After 9 months I have only just started trusting myself to do private trades with people I don't know for fear of being scammed - and now I see this, very worrying.

Witte said:

BTW, I dont think this realy is a very serious bug. It happens very very rarely, and if you pay attention you can prevent it from happening. But it is somthing people should be aware of. And MA should acknowledge it, and FIX IT!

Click to expand...

How do you avoid this Witte - if people can remove items after you have clicked the finalise deal button?

Qweeg said:

How do you avoid this Witte - if people can remove items after you have clicked the finalise deal button?

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by checking both windows before hitting the (second) accept button

This may be a silly question...

but you did scroll down to the very very bottom of your inventory?

I hope you find your peds there. If not, this is indeed disturbing.

I was in port atlantis when this happened. Me and John tried unsuccefully to try and repeat this occurance with trading a PEC with no success. It seemed from what John told me the avatar in question constantly was clearing trade in a suspicious manner before this occured. So peeps if someone is trading in this manner with strange clearances of trade best to walk away.
Sorry for your loss John, and at least you made another friend in EU through it, and BTW the pistol i offered you to ease your blow still stands mate.

All the best Norb

Skam said:

by checking both windows before hitting the (second) accept button

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Ah sorry - misread, I thought this happened after the second button had been pressed. I did think though like others that you couldn't remove stuff at this late stage.

I'm glad you reported this, as its worth the nature of the problem being made aware to people.

Its a prime example of why the forum's no naming rule was implemented though, as there is absolutely no evidence that any intentional wrong-doing has been done by the accused. Maybe, but equally maybe not. Could be that she lost her items traded also and its just a trade bug.

john, that picture scares me.

if you can remove items when the second confirmation window appears, then no pvp trade is safe.

Even if this is a lag induced situation - it is still very scary.

It has happened to a soc mate of mine as well. It was items worth 150 peds and he was super upset.

He asked me to have a few deals with him and try to immitate the scam but I couldn't. After 5 tries I gave up.

Either the "scammer" has to be lucky for this to happen or it is indeed a bug

Tromos

Thx for the info, I hope this is a bug and you are reimbursed for your losses. I'm a bit doubtful you will be as I don't think it affects MA's revenue like the 101 could and it may not receive the same attention.

lol @ forum rules for making us look like a bunch of politically correct idiots.

Thanks Qweeg, Norbert, Spod and everyone else for your support.

I'd like to point out 2 things for clarification (edit: turned out to be 4, lol):

1. Generally one is unable to remove items from the trade window once the blue screen pops up.
2. The avatar in question was not innocently involved in a normal trade with me when this took place. My second post (which was deleted by mods because pics were unsanitised) included a selection of 6 pics taken before and after the one posted which clearly show the other avatar adding, confirming, removing, confirming the trade in extremely quick succession (classic scammer behaviour).
3. Furthermore, the avatar did not complain at all about a loss of 65 PEDs for no ME, until I began asking where my PEDs where and warning them that I had been taking screenshots.
4. The alleged scammer (perhaps I should use this nomenclature ) soon teleported away and when I continued to dialogue with her via the chat window, logged out. This does not seem like the behaviour of someone who is earnestly seeking to find out why they did not receive their goods after a trade

Just a few thoughts. Have a great weekend everyone

From the screenshot:
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
It appears that the person deliberately cleared multiple times to use the lag in PA to create a bug. He would click "confirm" followed quickly by "clear" before the finalize trade window pops up.