Sweat at auction

first of all, this is not a "rise the sweat price thread", it might lead to that, but it isnt the intention from the start
the intention was more about fair market, even(or especially) for newbies who sweat actually or sweaters in general

the idea came up in soc chat yesterday during a discussion about sweat resellers

and, it had some valid points

first of all, simple fairness
you can sell fruits and dung at auction, even 0 ped mentor edition gifts (it is on purpose that i name them after dung, but that isn't the topic here)
fruits and dung can be found, are free, have the same tt of sweat, and are used as resources for "by the way" professions
read, either just tames/pet holders or landowners need it

sweat is used by the MF users in the end

but while those could buy fruit and dung at auction, to refine themselves, they couldn't do that with sweat that is cutting the market down on the end users side


second point would be the ppl that actually buy sweat
i doubt a big percentage of the ppl who use MF (all sorts of that uses ME) can actually be arsed to go to say PA and buy the sweat there
most don't
but maybe they would buy sweat and refined themselves at auction, might be cheaper in the end (and MF is overall expensive, so a bit saved cash wouldn't hurt)
generally, the price is more or less determined by those who actually stand for hours there and buying the sweat

Now, i have to say that i protected those sweat resellers in the discussion kinda, for providing a service, and providing ME in the end
this is as long true as long you have other options to get the resources
say, you can also buy lyst at auction
if a reseller bundles it, and a crafter rather pays a bit more for higher amounts, you can't say much against it
still, the last miner had the option to put it into auction, but decided not to do it (had to get cash faster, too low amount, whatever)

sweaters don't
this is cutting market down on the start supplier side


now, even if I dislike the sweat price revolution threads, because it is true
sweat is worth what its worth, and what the market would pay for it
just that the market isn't open atm, or not as open as it could be
(you simply cannot ask a newbie to get a refiner and loads of nexus at high prices first, to be able to produce ME; yes, he could deposit, but that isn't the point)

so, basically, it is a matter of fairness to open this market as any other too

since we have auction fees based on markup now, and even pretty nice catergories, where just sweat could be placed (say, under mindforce-Mind essence)
it wouldn't cause any "sweat spam" that you don't see anything else, but allowing newbies to sell the sweat where they want to
and in the end allows them to sell the sweat to a broader consumer base than it is possible at the moment


does this allow resellers to live with auction too now?
ya, for sure, but not much better than before
there is no real difference if you stand for 10 hours buying sweat and buy ME at 145% at buyout, or stand for 10 hours buying the same amount of sweat and sell the sweat at auction
simply because the % (and the fee) you pay on the ME already includes the sweat kinda

could the standard newbie afford the auction fee and does he have something of it?
at the beginning most likely not, might have to sell to a buyer he finds, maybe even at lower price
in the end he would have real offical market data, and not a kinda set 0.6 or 0.5 or whatever number

there is about 400 000 sweat gathered per day (might be more or less, but i guess we could come to that amount easily, if i have the latest ME sales numbers correctly in mind) without having a real at least quite confirmed data what it is worth

price might rise with being able to auction, but also fall, who knows

the MF users would have a new choice too
there might be miners who just mine for nexus, and sweat a bit themselves
if they dont want to go to PA or so, they have to buy ME in the end
with sweat at auction that wouldnt have to happen
means, the price for ME might go back (even without a decreasing of sweat prices) and MF might become a bit more affordable (ok, minimal more )

so, my opinion on this is kinda "yes, why not ^^"


edit, i will most likely bleed for this thread

edit2, seems there is a petition ongoing
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73276

Ofcorse sweat should be able to be traded in auction.
The fact that it can't is just ridiculous.

it will remove lots af chat spam in PA Agree

Yeah, but dung should be there too then.

Bird said:

Yeah, but dung should be there too then.

Click to expand...

it isnt?

oops

happens when you dont watch too carefully

alright, dung for auction too then !

but considering the auction fee ....

NastyCenturion said:

but considering the auction fee ....

Click to expand...

gives people the choice to buy in auction, or on the streets like everthing else (Bar dung) and pay, or not pay the fee.

So put sweat in auction

if you have the fee on the ME or the sweat is kinda the same

with dung it is a another thing ^^

but til now i havent seen many "rise the dung price" threads
(although, there would be many nice word constructions with that...)

I agree. Sweat and dung shoud be sold at auction too. Why? Because ...

• ... fruits (being sold at auction) can be found in the nature, have almost no value (see the horrendous markup% at auction), can be refined with sweetstuff (being sold at auction) to nutriobars (being sold at auction), which are used by my pet (and other pets).
• ... dung can be found in the nature, have almost no value, can be refined with growth molecules (being sold at auction) to fertilizer (being sold at auction), which are used by land owners.
• ... sweat can be found in the nature, by sweating animals, have almost no value, can be refined with force nexus (being sold at auction) to mind essence (being sold at auction), which are used by mind force users.

So, almost no difference between the value and the usage of dung, fruits and sweat. The only one, you find fruits and dung accidentally, but you can actively get sweat.

So, when fruits are at auction, dung has to be too at auction. Sweat also.

Alice said:

even 0 ped mentor edition gifts (it is on purpose that i name them after dung, but that isn't the topic here)

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Yes yes Yes

If I can put totally useless things up for auction like damaged (L) items and basic filters then I should be able to put anything in auction!!!

Make room in the auction for sweat and everything else that you can not currently auction


The nice side effect would be that it would put an end to all the sweat price threads and once the price is established in the auction noobs as well as those who do not buy or sell sweat often would have some thing to base what they should / could be buying/ selling sweat for.

In the end it will help prevent some scaming of noobs how have no idea what sweat is worth.

i cross my fingers in hope that this is something that will come to pass. it always seemed so weird sweat wasn't on auction. and now with the ingame graphs for item prices, we can truly watch the price of sweat. i also think sweat resellers will be hurt but not knocked out. i say let it on the auction block!!

Why not, but it will lose value concidering auction fee and you would have comercialize sweat bad for everyone that uses ME. Single buyer will buy up all the sweat at PA or sweatcamp and auction at hi price. Now we will be stuck with a reseller selling us sweat I see this as bad for us all. Look at what the resellers have already done to the game. I bought an ML45 last summer for 4200ped, after resellers got it what 16-17K now

Keep sweat off the auction!!!! If you use ME, if your new to game or your a reseller yes you would want it on auction.

I voted yes but I think an obvious factor is being overlooked. Noobs come into this game and start sweating. By having to sell it on the street it promotes having to interact with other people. And that is a huge component of what EU is all about. I always felt, chat spam aside, that the street faire type sales create a more vibrant community atmosphere in a few areas. Just enough to show us that EU is full of living breathing people.

oh, people will still be selling stuff on the street. that will never stop. they sell everything on the street.

however, i do feel this will hinder sweat resellers more than help. it will give noobs an alternative place to sell their sweat.

Falco said:

I agree. Sweat and dung shoud be sold at auction too. Why? Because ...

• ... fruits (being sold at auction) can be found in the nature, have almost no value (see the horrendous markup% at auction), can be refined with sweetstuff (being sold at auction) to nutriobars (being sold at auction), which are used by my pet (and other pets).
• ... dung can be found in the nature, have almost no value, can be refined with growth molecules (being sold at auction) to fertilizer (being sold at auction), which are used by land owners.
• ... sweat can be found in the nature, by sweating animals, have almost no value, can be refined with force nexus (being sold at auction) to mind essence (being sold at auction), which are used by mind force users.

So, almost no difference between the value and the usage of dung, fruits and sweat. The only one, you find fruits and dung accidentally, but you can actively get sweat.

So, when fruits are at auction, dung has to be too at auction. Sweat also.

Click to expand...

Great logic and I agree.

Sadly there is one difference....sweat isn't found. It's something you go and get reliably from mobs unlike fruit or dung which are random and pretty rare.

No reason it shouldn't be in auction as long as MA get the fee in the end though. In fact people knowing they are getting a fair market price would encourage them not to quit early on as I'm sure many do when faced with hawking sweat at PA in lag zone.

t

petition

I am not trying to hijack this thread .. I agree with it and hope to offer help with it.

Petition to add sweat and dung to auction link:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73276

Bones

um well on the sweat on auction thing.. bad idea b/c who wants to give up their money to sell sweat on auction.. as is its hard enuf getting started as a noob. and people quit b/c of this. we see a ton of noobies quitting and not staying.

imagine if they had to lose even more money by auction fees...

bad idea IMHO

Napolleon said:

um well on the sweat on auction thing.. bad idea b/c who wants to give up their money to sell sweat on auction.. as is its hard enuf getting started as a noob. and people quit b/c of this. we see a ton of noobies quitting and not staying.

imagine if they had to lose even more money by auction fees...

bad idea IMHO

Click to expand...

Agree 100% robbing noobs

Wildman Alpha said:

Why not, but it will lose value concidering auction fee and you would have comercialize sweat bad for everyone that uses ME. Single buyer will buy up all the sweat at PA or sweatcamp and auction at hi price. Now we will be stuck with a reseller selling us sweat I see this as bad for us all. Look at what the resellers have already done to the game. I bought an ML45 last summer for 4200ped, after resellers got it what 16-17K now

Keep sweat off the auction!!!! If you use ME, if your new to game or your a reseller yes you would want it on auction.

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more or less

the thing is, there is around 400 000 sweat gathered each day

(150-200 newbies a day, you get around 1k sweat per day, so 150 000, newbies quit after 2 days usually, so you have the 150k*2, and i guess there are some more sweaters around, so 400 000 isn't that far from thinking)

hard for a reseller to get it all

and, at the moment resellers have it already, just that they refine it to ME before before they auction it

if you pay fee for sweat or later for ME is quite the same

another thing that speaks about really high prices is the fact that everything in MF is very uneco
the higher the sweat price, the less ppl will buy
and that all the tp chip users pay 300% i don't see tbh
somewhere they simply start to sweat for their own supply


and the ml is another thing
basically this kind of stuff doesn't drop anymore, more and more rare...
ME not really
loads of ME sold each day

Alice said:

and the ml is another thing
basically this kind of stuff doesn't drop anymore, more and more rare...
ME not really
loads of ME sold each day

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what is ML?

Napolleon said:

what is ML?

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meckel and loch

a rifle actually, or "rifle manufactorer"

Napolleon said:

um well on the sweat on auction thing.. bad idea b/c who wants to give up their money to sell sweat on auction.. as is its hard enuf getting started as a noob. and people quit b/c of this. we see a ton of noobies quitting and not staying.

imagine if they had to lose even more money by auction fees...

bad idea IMHO

Click to expand...

Allowing to sell and buy sweat on auction (with auction fee) does not mean, that selling and buying sweat on the street market (without auction fee) will be forbidden.

Now you can buy and sell ores and enmatter, fruits on the street market too (without auction fee).

Newcomers will not have the auction fee when they start. Because they start with nothing than orange and underwear.
So the newest newbies will do nothing else than now, selling sweat on the street market. Nothing will change.

But after playing a short time, they will have the chance to choose between auction and street. Who doesnt like to pay auction fee, sells on the street. No problem.

More options is never a bad thing.

Napolleon said:

um well on the sweat on auction thing.. bad idea b/c who wants to give up their money to sell sweat on auction.. as is its hard enuf getting started as a noob. and people quit b/c of this. we see a ton of noobies quitting and not staying.

imagine if they had to lose even more money by auction fees...

bad idea IMHO

Click to expand...

it isn't?!

i never said no street sales btw, more that you could sell sweat as everything else at street AND auction

how many ME is there at auction everday, and sold everyday?
i doubt the ppl sell it there with good faith, means with loss or no profit it least

but lets assume they don't make profit, what do they pay?
and lets assume a price for sweat at 0.5, nexus 1.5 and 2.0

tt of ME is based on tt of sweat + tt of nexus

if you set ME at auction you pay the markup for the difference of tt to start bid

the tt of (even if the numbers are wrong, the logic is the same)
ME 1.001 pec
nexus 1 pec
sweat 0.001 pec

now, if you set 1 ME at auction, for say 2.0, you pay 5% on the difference of tt and start bid
that is 0.05 pec
this comes from the sweat auction fee %, which is 1 for 0.02495 and the nexus which is 1 for 0.025

now, say you put sweat at auction
if you would auction 1 sweat your fee is 0,02495


where is the rip off ?
in the end you pay the same fee someone pays who put the ME in, just that you dont sell nexus ^.-


now, since you seem to be a sweater
who do you sell sweat to?
do you sell it to the ppl who use it? means the end consumer?
to the ppl who use 10k ME each day and more
to the loads of ppl who use minor amounts (i guess) to tp every day
those ppl hate the lag at PA, the swamp camp, etc., and will most likely avoid coming their at all cost, as long they don't skill healing or focussing

or do you sell it to the ppl in PA, who stand for hours there?

my bet would be the last one actually

now, what would you have from selling sweat at auction
easy

what do you think the guy you sell the sweat in pa at say 0.5 does with the sweat?
most likely he will buy some nexus, refine the stuff to ME, and sells that
most likely at auction even, paying the markup and having an acceptable profit
on your cost i might add

the price of 0.5 is just partially set by the market, since you have NO way of selling to the end consumer really
as long you don't have 1-5k sweat at least most end consumers wont even ask you to get sweat

if you could sell your sweat now at auction, you could reach the end consumer
how does that help?

quite easy
how do you think the sweat buyers calculate?
i usually do it like this
average ME price at auction -Buyout nexus - "profit" = sweat price

example
2.2 ME - nexus 1.45 - 0.2 = sweat price 0.55
if you calculate with 0.1 "profit" you have the current sweat price btw
and you can sell ME higher too

now this 0.2 profit, call it middleman profit, is the cash YOU don't want

0.2 pec per sweat
it is interesting that 90% if the sweat price threads demand a price rising of 0.2, weird, isn't it?
it is simply given away by the sweaters themself ^.-

and yes, auction fee will make that smaller, and yes, i didn't calculate with refining cost for the ME

but still, you would have the choice at least to sell it at auction, and not being dependent on your local sweat seller
believe me, they don't buy the sweat in good faith

the fun thing is

with sweat at auction you would cut the middleman
that means no real cost increase for the end consumer (he still pays the same kinda)
but increased price for the actual sweater

now, instead of those stupid "rise the sweat price, hell yeah" revolutions and threads, THIS would have at least the chance to reach more ppl ^.-

as i said, it is just a thought
but i wonder why a sweater wouldn't like it ^.-

but ok, i respect that opinion

This is quite an interesting idea actually. I'm sure all the effects have been discussed in-game when you raised it Alice, so this will no doubt duplicate a lot of that, but still, as I didn't hear any of that...

As several posters have said, the problem for noobs is the auction fee...

Suppose you put 1000 bottles on auction, which @ 0.65 (for illustration purposes) would give you 6.5ped. Enough to buy your opalo and some ammo.

What would be the auction fee?
Markup is effectively 6.5 ped. Using the examples from MA's auction fees in the official participant's "guide", auction fee is about 0.82 ped. This reduces the efffective price to around 0.57. A bit low.

But what would be the fee for 10k sweat at a price of 0.65?
Well 10k sweat has TT = 0.1ped (I think that's right - correct me someon if not)
Sale value @ 0.65 is 65ped
So markup is 64.9 ped (well near enough 65 ped really )
This indicates an auction fee of 3.6 ped. So you receive
Effective price is then 0.614

This is still a bit low. So the question is, will ppl pay a little more for sweat via auction, to buy in large quantities, and then refine to ME themselves.

What really is the cost of refining sweat + FN to make ME? There is refiner decay and time. Maybe someone who has done this can give some figures. How much can you refine in one go? How long would it take to refine 10k of sweat into ME? How much do you have to lock up in capital to get a decent refiner without high decay?

It seems to me likely that MF users who want ME will be in 3 categories:

• don't want to waste time making ME, and will always only buy refined ME
• happy to buy sweat instead and possibly FN as well (if they don't mine their own) and make ME
• will always gather sweat themselves, since this gives MF skills as well

So some of the ppl in category 2 will buy from the auction, and also some ppl may discover that shifting from category 1 to category 2 saves peds, and they will buy sweat at auction.

But who does this whole idea help?

We have several categories of ppl affected

• MF users who want to get sweat to refine
• ME manufacturers, who buy sweat, refine and sell ME
• sweat resellers
• experienced sweat collectors
• newbies

The MF users we have covered above - they may find it helpful, but equally they may find it pushes up the price of sweat slightly due to auction fees, so if they can pvp trade and split the difference they may do. However, if they are happy to wait and not pay buy-outs, auction will probably yield lower priced sweat in my opinion, as supply is quite high, and sellers will not want to waste the fees caused by the large markup.

The same applies to ME manuacturers.

Effectively here then we have the same situation as say crafting rawmats, which you can buy in pvp trade quite easily at say Twin, but lots of ppl buy at auction. But a lot of auction lots go unsold, because the auction is really better for non-stackables.

Sweat resellers - well they will gain and lose. They gain because they are best placed to take advantage of the lower auction fee for larger lots of sweat, but they will lose because many ppl will expect to sell to them at the auction price, perhaps not understanding the auction fee or the reseller's margin, and demanding 0.65 or 0.8 or whatever, for 86 bottles.

Also the loss for a reseller if they regularly put 100k sweat on auction and have no buyer is potentially large. They are safer doing pvp trades, or smaller lots.

What about the experienced sweat collector. They will know that time wasted trying to get those extra few pecs is better spent gathering more sweat, and will probably just sell on auction. Assuming someone will buy. This may push the price down, as they will have to set a lower starting bid, to avoid wasting their auction fee. Chances are supply will outstrip demand and caution will cause starting bids of around 0.5 to be set. Why outbid another bidder when you can just bid on a new lot instead. I suspect also sellers will set buyouts quite low, like 0.7 so it depends how desperate buyers are to buy. After a few weeks there will always be some lots about to expire, so no need to use buyout. Prices will drop.

Then we come to the noob. They have 100 bottles or 200 bottles. they want to sell, hoping they can get a gun with this. They clearly cannot afford the action fee, as it will wipe out their entire proceeds. And most likely if they did put 200 bottles on hoping to get 1 ped, nobody would buy, because of all the larger lots available.

So the only possible help to the noob is that they maybe know the price better - well I think this is questionable. There will be 2 markets - the auction market, and the pvp market. The prices of the auction market will not be available to the noob. But the auction market prices will drop, so the pvp trade prices will drop. If anything, noobs may get more frustrated as they see apparent auction prices which are higher than they can get, they will refuse to sell at lower pvp prices, nobody will buy their sweat, the auction will still be full of sweat from more seasoned collectors, and more noobs may be disillusioned with the game and give up than already do.

Ok it may not work that way, but I think the main winners here would be MA with their auction fees, and seasoned sweat collectors, who would be able to spend more time sweating and less time selling. MF users might win if they refine themselves, as I think the sweat price would drop. But I think ME manufacturers would probably step in and eat this margin up. Just another form of reseller effectively.

Although I do wonder where all the ME goes - there is a lot sold, and talking to someone about this recently we were hard-pushed to identify where it all gets used. Demand for ME seems surprisingly high I would say. Does TPing and a bit of healing really use all that ME that's sold?

So on that basis, I would vote yes, because it would help me, but I think players just starting would be hurt a little by it.

Does any of that make any kind of sense?

Oh no I think this is my longest post yet. Note to self...be more concise.

ya, the ME sold each day
about 400 000 to 500 000
lots of tping ^.-

i heard that mf skillers go through 10k a day
we should have about 10-20 mf skillers, so 200 000 are kinda set

other 2k, well
if i mine on one of my areas i tend to use the tp chip, which needs 44 to it (2 minor jumps)
still, must be several jumps to fill the rest ks up ^^

hard to say


i had the hope actually that the auction would rather rise the price
as you say, the sweaters who sweat more have something of it

could you survive if you don't deposit at all and just sweat with 1000 sweat?

i got the point, but in the long run you gotta sweat a lot, and a direct auction option is easier in the end

and yes, it might even drop the price, i thought of that too
but we always claim that sweating is a market, in every thread you can read that it is, and based on supply and demand
just that you don't have a full access from all who could buy at it
simply because auction sums quite everything up, very fast to see, and brings more buyers and sellers far faster and far closer together


other thing is that ME has the tendency to be around 200-300%
and it was bought, even quite a lot
heck, sweat was already bought at 4.4, and the ME at those times too ^^

if you drop sweat price, means ME, more ppl should skill MF, and bring it up again


sweating is a tough business, and the standard newbie doesn't have too much of it if he would auction it, the 50 pec fee would kill it
except that he finally got the info where the price comes from
and is not given by the "eldars"

and see it that way
maybe he tries to get more sweat to compensate the 50 pec...
who knows

Alice said:

if i mine on one of my areas i tend to use the tp chip, which needs 44 to it (2 minor jumps)

Click to expand...

What are legs for again?

Alice said:

but we always claim that sweating is a market, in every thread you can read that it is, and based on supply and demand
just that you don't have a full access from all who could buy at it
simply because auction sums quite everything up, very fast to see, and brings more buyers and sellers far faster and far closer together

Click to expand...

I completely agree on this, but it isn't a perfect market due to the quite sizable auction fee (sizable for sweat because it has near 0 TT), which you lose just for using the auction, not necessarily for making a sale. This I think will cause people to be cautious about losing the fee, and hence put in a lower starting bid.

It all hinges on whether there will be a lot of sweat lots going unsold by the end of their auction period. ie is demand more than supply

Alice said:

other thing is that ME has the tendency to be around 200-300%
and it was bought, even quite a lot
heck, sweat was already bought at 4.4, and the ME at those times too ^^

if you drop sweat price, means ME, more ppl should skill MF, and bring it up again

Click to expand...

You're talking about price elasticity of demand or supply here yes?

Consider just sweat, forget ME for a sec. If sweat price drops causing increased demand and hence upwards pressure on sweat price again, this is just equilibrium. ie if supply & demand does not change, price stays the same.

Will supply of sweat change? Will demand for sweat change?

You can draw a graph of demand against price, and of supply against price. Where these cross is the equilibrium price.

So consider demand for sweat - does it change much based on price - from what you are saying, no. Since ultimately it is driven by MF users, and they will pay whetever the price. So the demand is quite price-inelastic, graph is flat line.

So there is pretty much a fixed level of demand, and so we need to look at what is the price for this level of supply.

How much does supply vary depending on price. I think it's quite steep. Many sellers esp of larger quantities will hold out for higher price. ie if price falls, supply drops.

This is how a perfect market works. The auction fee screws that a bit. But how...I'm not sure. You're the guru not me - I've reached my limit on this one without a bit more thought

Alice said:

sweating is a tough business, and the standard newbie doesn't have too much of it if he would auction it, the 50 pec fee would kill it
except that he finally got the info where the price comes from
and is not given by the "eldars"

Click to expand...

So let's just hope that in this case Ms Standard Newbie (I wanna change my ava name ) understands that the price per the auction market data is not the price on the street. If you sell, say, animal hides or paint on the street, you know you won't get the market price, because to have these to sell, you have played a bit, and understand the market a bit. Sweat is possibly the first thing Ms Standard Newbie has to sell, on day 1, and she may not understand there is an auction fee, and a risk of no sale.

Alice said:

maybe he tries to get more sweat to compensate the 50 pec...

Click to expand...

Let's hope so - although here you're talking about ppl who would stay anyway?

Well, since I brought this up in the soc, here's my take on auctioning sweat:

The current situation tends to depress sweat prices because of the time it now takes to sell sweat on the street to an end user. I figured out early on that I would be much better sweating more than standing for an hour or more at PA saying "Selling 10K sweat at (x)+.1/.2 @ East Wall" while 2 ppl stood saying "Buying sweat at (x) @ TP - all amounts acceped"

As the price approaches 0.5, an extra 0.1 means a 20% increase, so it starts to become worth it to stand for hours if you have 10K to sell. (Not worth it to me, btw, but worth it for many it seems).

So the resellers get the sweat at a low price, because of the massive cost (in time) to sell to the end user. What does the reseller do then? Well, some maybe have dedicated buyers. But most go buy nexus, refine to ME, and auction. But since they didn't sweat for it in the first place, the incentive is to turn over the sweat quickly. Thus they overpay for nexus, driving that price up. Notice that as sweat prices have dropped, ME hasn't dropped with it (which would be nice for MF'ers)--nexus has just gone up.

Auction fees would of course affect how helpful it would be to auction sweat. But somehow it doesnt kill the market for fruit. At least having sweat freely traded on the auction would give a decent picture to the actual supply and demand for it. Then you could say to the new soc member, "save up 10K and put it on auction" rather than "save up 10K then go shout at PA or Twin for who knows how long to maybe find a end-user, or maybe give up and sell to the reseller at the price you could have sold at 2 hours ago"

Also, MA could do us all a favor by lowering the % auction fee on fruit, sweat, dung, and ME, since so much of the cost of these is markup.

you have the auction fee anyway

if you sell ME at auction, and i guess thats the place where most of it is traded or sweat is basically the same

since ME has the same additional markup as sweat would have


that the demand of ME is quite firm
well, you asked me what feet are for
the only occasion i really use the tp chip is to get to this area, or to get to a tp when im in a hurry (tp run, soc mate found spaceship but has no chance against bots...)

but, without trying to offend
how many ppl use their feet?

and what would they pay for avoiding it, without even counting the coolness factor?

just take a look at the rig, if someone is killed
how many actually run back?
count 22 ME per jump around, most likely more (if you can afford those weaponry to be there, you have a better tp chip too)

as i said, sweat was even bought at 4.4, what does that tell you ? ^.-

the auction fee is bad, this is true
but it is already bad on fruit
and it is already bad on ME

still, both is bought
i think fruit even rose in price?
but not too sure about that

and if sweat rises in auction, it rises on the market
the newbie doesnt have to afford the fee
just the reseller (there will be resellers for sure) has it

say, sweat price would rise to 1.0
and the newbie cant afford to sell it at auction
street price is 0.5

how long will it take til a reseller comes to buy it for 0.6
0.7
0.8
0.9
?

others had to increase price too, because someone might pay higher


ofc, sweat could fall in price to
call it pity


to the newbies quitting
I know that problem, i really do
but making a living with sweat is such a thing, you know

the best pro for a higher sweat price is that you could try several stuff out before you decide to deposit or not
atm it takes quite a lot of time to be finally able to do something
i mean, for hunting you need about 10 ped, just to test
thats 1k-2k sweat
for mining the same
crafting kinda the same

but that could be avoided by some other stuff too ^^
i got an idea, gotta think through it, and might post it even

but if you push the price too high, to make a living, say 4.4
it is nice for sweaters but unfair to quite all depositers (remember the 4k snable(s) ? )
and especially to the MF users
and especially of those who are not just tping and try to skill something at least quite eco
with 4.4 sweat thats not going to happen
I'm drifing off topic

still, whatever might happen, it is happening already with ME (and therefore sweat indirectly) and fruit

I see sweat as the real world sees plankton, it seems very simple and abundant but to make fundamental changes to it could have much bigger implications to our world than we could envisage.

I don't object to honest hardworking sweaters being able to sell the sweat in an easy fashion in fact as a bulk user of ME I would welcome it. I would however, object to making things easier for resellers and farmers to make easy money at the expense of depositors while contributing nothing to the game other than the exploitation of the actual sweaters and withdrawl of my hard earnt and deposited cash

Without knowing the wider implications of such a scheme, sadly I would remain reluctant to see it implemented and I can't see Mindark making any changes here.