Harassment In Space - Support Case

[Hypnotyk]

although there might be blind spots, we shouldn't expect MA to fix them. Much like tanks in war, they too have powerful but limited abilities. Therefore, you should have support around your MS/privateer much like a tank does with infantry and other units. That's my opinion at least. What chance did (although annoying as hell and served no real purpose this time except to piss you off) is quite smart if you ask me. He found a way to stall you from warping where he could have summoned an attack group to shoot you down all while being able to dodge your attacks by leveraging the weaknesses of your ship.

Not taking sides here just stating my views to contribute to the thread

 

[chances]

although there might be blind spots, we shouldn't expect MA to fix them. Much like tanks in war, they too have powerful but limited abilities. Therefore, you should have support around your MS/privateer much like a tank does with infantry and other units. That's my opinion at least. What chance did (although annoying as hell and served no real purpose this time except to piss you off) is quite smart if you ask me. He found a way to stall you from warping where he could have summoned an attack group to shoot you down all while being able to dodge your attacks by leveraging the weaknesses of your ship.

Not taking sides here just stating my views to contribute to the thread

Exactly, dont punish me because I understand the mechanics...
Max, your saying you couldn't turn the ship starboard to let the gunner have line of sight ??
Yeah right, <replaced with: he> was too busy writing a frantic message to support <removed> instead of playing the game how it was intended.

<removed>

 

[HardWrath]

although there might be blind spots, we shouldn't expect MA to fix them. Much like tanks in war, they too have powerful but limited abilities. Therefore, you should have support around your MS/privateer much like a tank does with infantry and other units. That's my opinion at least. What chance did (although annoying as hell and served no real purpose this time except to piss you off) is quite smart if you ask me. He found a way to stall you from warping where he could have summoned an attack group to shoot you down all while being able to dodge your attacks by leveraging the weaknesses of your ship.

Not taking sides here just stating my views to contribute to the thread

I agree, i think a whole fleet of support craft would make space amazing but unless you guys are willing to spend 250 peds for a single one-way warp flight (instead of 30ish) then there is no way any of thats going to happen. All of those support people, the quads flying support, the gunners, the repair crew, they all need to be paid. Where is that going to come from? The passengers of course.

On top of that, a Quad can not warp, thus the Privateer will leave that group of support Quads as soon as it enters warp. That means you will need a 2nd set of support craft waiting for you at your destination planet. How many planets are there? Thats a lot of people to pay just to sit there and wait for you to have a paying warp flight. Which all means that none of it is practical.

Privateer and Mothership pilots who do VIP warps for individual customers, which accounts for the bulk of space travel, do these runs solo with just them and their paying customer(s) and thats because everyone wants cheap space travel.

Thats how space has evolved and thats the reality of the situation. As a result, the individual pilot needs to have a possible way to shoot at attackers. The pilot seat doesnt have any guns.

As it stands now, a Privateer that has not had Structural Integrity upgrades costs about 40Kish PED and has ZERO chance of staying alive vs a 100 PED Quad (L).. it doesnt matter how many gunners you have. The same is true for a mothership that has not been upgraded.

To upgrade SI it requires Gold Ingots... and 1 PED TT value of Gold gives you 2 SI points. The Privateer that I'm selling has 42,974 SI points... thats ~21,487 PED TT value of Gold. Those upgrades were done when Gold was at about 120%... currently Gold is at 200%.

The SI costs easily justify the 65K price that I have set but the point is, in that scenario with all those peds invested in the privateer, does it make sense for it to be defenseless against a 100 PED (L) Quad? It should (at least up to a point) have defensive capabilities without requiring a crew.

A Quad easily runs circles (literally) around a privateer or mothership in close quarters. You can turn and maneuver all you want and it doesn't make a lot of difference because the quad can move faster than a privateer. Imagine riding bareback on an elephant while underwater and trying to steer the thing around in different directions. Sure it can be done but its going to happen very slowly

 

[chances]

I agree, i think a whole fleet of support craft would make space amazing but unless you guys are willing to spend 250 peds for a single one-way warp flight (instead of 30ish) then there is no way any of thats going to happen. All of those support people, the quads flying support, the gunners, the repair crew, they all need to be paid. Where is that going to come from? The passengers of course.

On top of that, a Quad can not warp, thus the Privateer will leave that group of support Quads as soon as it enters warp. That means you will need a 2nd set of support craft waiting for you at your destination planet. How many planets are there? Thats a lot of people to pay just to sit there and wait for you to have a paying warp flight. Which all means that none of it is practical.

Privateer and Mothership pilots who do VIP warps for individual customers, which accounts for the bulk of space travel, do these runs solo with just them and their paying customer(s) and thats because everyone wants cheap space travel.

4 shots with your turret and you coulda killed me.
<removed>

Your always saying on here how MIGHTY your little ship is...
<removed>

You scared of a lil old $9 quad in your $7000 ship ??
<removed>

 

[Bear]

Seriously?
Hey, "chances" is a space pirate. Thats it. If you think it sucks that you can´t warp because of him, either pay him to let you go or get some help (has to be paid too i guess). Who said that space is a compfy zone just because you sit in a tank?

 

[atomicstorm]

This is unfortunately what gunners are for. There is a fine line with harassment though. Simple solution is to implement shield system.

 

[Granny Rowan]

Actually the way that its designed, you can not defend yourself. The passenger did get ammo and wanted to shoot but instead of engaging what Chances does is hide like a pussy in the Privateer's blind spots. The pilot has no way to shoot (because there is no gun for the pilot) and then the gunner has no way to shoot because the gun is severely limited in where it can be aimed at. In their current design, Privateers are 100% defenseless.

Sure a gunner could switch seats and go to the other side on a different gun but then the attacking quad just has to fly to the other side. It takes longer for the gunner to move seats than it does the Quad to move. Additionally, with all the bugs in space, you can only switch seats a couple of times before your avatar ends up outside of the privateer, or stuck in the seat, at which point you have to press T and wait.

This is the whole reason why SI is so very important. A privateer + passenger/gunner have no ability to shoot a quad thats in close range and aware of how to use the privateer's blind spots. Zero chance.. Its not possible to fight which my passenger found out today.

In all the VIP warps I've done as a paying customer on people's privateers and motherships, I have yet to see an operational crew there for the purposes of passenger flight. They ONLY would be there if the ship is going to go hunting space mobs.

The space system as it is now is 100% completely flawed from top to bottom.



Thanks.. just wanted to get that in a quote.

Not sure who you flew with in the past but most motherships are crewed when doing warp flights, KISS, EFA & TOS ships are all crewed as I believe are many others.. ofc you may have flown with some cheap option.

Many privateers also have a gunner and repairer on board tho this may depend on short-notice availabilty.

If you have a gunner there is an easy way to overcome the blindspot...teamwork
Pilot scrolls camera back for overview and then turns ship as needed to give gunner clean shot.
Simples !!

 

[HardWrath]

I will say that Granny on the Kronan and a couple of others DO in fact have a very well organized crew thats on board a lot. They do scheduled warps, have a ton of passengers, and are extremely dedicated.

I had a small roll with the Kronan when it first launched... Over the years SBI, the NBK, the EFA, and now you have taken that ship to a whole new level. Its very impressive work.

 

[HardWrath]

Seriously?
Hey, "chances" is a space pirate. Thats it. If you think it sucks that you can´t warp because of him, either pay him to let you go or get some help (has to be paid too i guess). Who said that space is a compfy zone just because you sit in a tank?

Im not gonna pay him shit, I dont need a gunner... If he can shoot through the 43K SI and then get through my armor with his little (L) quad then gratz to him.

 

[chances]

Im not gonna pay him shit, I dont need a gunner... If he can shoot through the 43K SI and then get through my armor with his little (L) quad then gratz to him.

You dont wanna pay for a gunner then you can deal with the problems that creates.
Dont go crying to MA and the forums cause your too tight to pay for some protection which you obviously need !

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

Are you saying that Daisy is Goldie?

Omg, didnt you know ? Christ, im guessing you also then dont know im you too> thats right, im in youre tinfoil, wrapped up warm for the long haul ^^

 

[Rave]

I don't normally agree with HW on stuff, but this is clearly harassment, given the chat window. Plus, Chances even posted his own chat log showing that he said "I'm going to stop <removed> from warping".

TAUNTING is synonymous with harassment when you have no intention of actually shooting a ship down. <removed>

I have noticed a striking similarity between pirates in EU and other PVPers in other games, kind of funny how the internet works... keyboard warriors "can't be tough in real life because if I taunt someone in real life, I'll have my teeth knocked in... best do it in the virtual world!"

Have a little damn class.

 

[HardWrath]

Notice the avatar standing on top of the skeleton of the ship in the middle of lootable pvp space.

Thats me



I was in space to remap some keys specific to space.. Chances of course spent the better part of a half hour taunting me in the Space Travel channel. Finally when I was done with mapping my keys, I went out into lootable by Chances... we were in between the Caly SS and Crystal Palace.

To shoot Chances, I have to get out of the pilot seat, then get into the front gunner seat.. by this time Chances flys over to safe space. I then get out of the gunner seat and you can see what happened in the above screen shot.

This is a common bug.

I then have to stand in the middle of lootable PvP (outside of the ship) pressing T and waiting 60 seconds to revive into the Privateer's revival point.

I then get into the pilot seat and reposition the ship, get out, get into the gunners seat... and by this time Chances is in safe space again.

Its not like switching seats in a vehicle on Calypso... in space, you have to load all of the outside space when you sit down, there is a big lag spike, then when you get up, you have to load all of the inside of the privateer and have more lag. Regardless of your PC performance, a lot of times this results in your avatar being ejected into space.

During this whole thing, Chances didnt even fire a shot. He just wanted to lure me into pvp space and watch me spend 4 or 5 ped of ammo while he hid in the safe zone.

The point of this post is that Privateers and Motherships need a way to defend themselves, at least on a limited basis, when its only the pilot. The pilot needs a gun that doesnt have very many blind spots. Any good quad pilot can linger in a blind spot regardless of how much a privateer or mothership is moving about.

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

Verbal harassment is one thing i could have agreed with. But thats not what this tread is about. This is simply a "tradesman" blaming his tools for his own incompetence. End of story ^^

 

[aia]

They designed the game that allowed this to be done.

They've designed the interruption so it would be practically possible for a pirate to abort warp and shoot down a bigger ship. If warp wasn't interrupted, a ship with big enough SI could just wait for warp to be charged and vanish out of the attacker's weapon range Before it would be shot down.

 

[aia]

<removed>

PVP areas which people has to go through tend to attract <removed> griefers who takes amusement in harassing others who are forced to pass by.

Therefore, PVP areas should be designed in such a way it's possible to completely avoid the kind of people who are there with the intention of making other people feel bad.

There are some pirates who behave professionally, who just do their thing without "taunting" others. Unfortunately, not all "pirates" behave like that. This is a reason why space, being an area you need to pass through between non-pvp-areas (planets), should not be PVP enabled. In this very example, it was a big ship that was shot at for the sole purpose of delaying it, apparently just to show disagreement with the ship owner - not once but 10 times (and as you apparently didn't fire on it seriously you did not even try to shoot it down - you just did this to show disagreement with the owner.

Clear enough?

 

[krazykat]

Actually the guns on a privateer cover all angles and there are no blind spots IF all are manned. The problem is, that you can only use two of them at once if you have armament device I in. I'm told that armament device III allows all 6 guns to be used at the same time but I have yet to test that.

Getting the necessary crew together for VIP warps is next to impossible for me since the ship is usually just parked at the station when I'm not using it so when I get a VIP warp request, I'm generally going solo so some sort of pilot controlled weapon would certainly be very useful - and used

When the cargo missions come in, it will very likely be necessary to get together a regular crew of gunners and repairers, but that's probably still several VU's away.

 

[xian]

I don't understand. Why don't you shoot back ?

 

[xWandererx]

..........................................................

I have noticed a striking similarity between pirates in EU and other PVPers in other games, kind of funny how the internet works... keyboard warriors "can't be tough in real life because if I taunt someone in real life, I'll have my teeth knocked in... best do it in the virtual world!"

Have a little damn class.

This........

 

[aia]

I don't understand. Why don't you shoot back ?

From a post a few lines up:

Notice the avatar standing on top of the skeleton of the ship in the middle of lootable pvp space.

Thats me
(...)
To shoot Chances, I have to get out of the pilot seat, then get into the front gunner seat.. by this time Chances flys over to safe space.
(...)
I then have to stand in the middle of lootable PvP (outside of the ship) pressing T and waiting 60 seconds to revive into the Privateer's revival point.

I then get into the pilot seat and reposition the ship, get out, get into the gunners seat... and by this time Chances is in safe space again.

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

From a post a few lines up:

Then it's a Privateer Bug fix case, not pvp warp disruption harassment case.

 

[aia]

<removed>


I understand the mothership business, that lootable pvp is to make higher investments in space, both in time/skilling and PEDs/SI. But if some of the pirates even shoot at Commercial ships, with the main purpose of just delaying them, and try to do their best in using foul langage (below even pirate standard), then for the pirate activities it should be like shooting yourself in the foot. It's like, if traffic is a mess because people park their cars everywhere and block the streets, it's time to paint parking Squares and put up parking meters.

(This isn't directed to you. But I've gotten ingame complaints about Another (a third) pirate using foul language to a socmate of mine.)

 

[Art Jennifer]

Why simply not make a PVP arena in space (between space stations) which is lawless as dedicated pvp areas generally are, and needing antitoxic shot to enter (to prevent other people to fly in by mistake), and leave the rest of the space to those of us who just need to get from Point A to Point B.

Then you don't have to be sick of anyone - those who join you in the area are up for a fight the same way as you do and you have less risk of meeting peopel who doesn't like pvp.

No one would ever go in.

Despite what the PVP4 pvpers would have you believe, they are actually dead areas.

Only person I have seen in PVP was coming across his tower, that was recent. Even then, he was either afk or saw me and was like, Lol that noob.

Before that, I have gone about 12/months in pvp without ever coming across someone.

I would say, in my three and a half years. About 15% of my mining has been in PVP, I have been killed twice, as I remember.

Once was on Rocktropia.

 

[Rave]

No one would ever go in.

People go into PVP4. I'm sure there would be perks to going into space PVP zones, which are out of the way.

 

[aia]

No one would ever go in.

If you really love pvp, then you would go in, and wait for other people who also love pvp. (Or possibly some adventurer who's exploring, but most likely isn't there by foot just to get through it.)

I don't hate pvp, by itself. For instance, pvp events can be fun and the new fort events are affordable. At other occasions it's not all gunpower but also a part of diplomacy (especially when the killing itself doesn't give immediate reward).

But the common thing for PVP areas, on planet, is that you Always have the option to leave and go back to other activities, and most often you revive outside of the pvp area (exception is fort events and some landgrabs) - with the current design, generally, nowdays griefers have Little to get. If you got a TP-chip you can usually leave the safe zone with it and far enough from a potential griefer at TP not to see where you Went.

Here it's clear: Someone wants to leave a space station, and someone shoot at him and stops warp, not once or twice, but ten times (and as it would seem like, he would do it for hours).

 

[Art Jennifer]

Guys, let us stop fighting.

<removed>

 

[atomicstorm]

<removed>

Griefing is the act of chronically causing consternation to other members of an online community, or more specifically, intentionally disrupting the immersion of another player in their gameplay. The term griefer originated in the online gaming world, and although Wikipedia is not commonly regarded as a game (but see Wikipedia is a MMORPG), the phenomenon also occurs here, as it does also in other online communities such as Facebook.

Griefers are similar to trolls, with the main difference being that griefers will sometimes act in groups, in the form of tag team editing, to deliberately ridicule content on Wikipedia with which they disagree, to ridicule and harass editors associated with that content, and to interfere with the normal workings of the project. Trolls will instead more often act individually by baiting other members in an attempt to disrupt, and by causing other community members to waste time in dealing with the troll's actions. Both griefers and trolls are usually acting out in a desire for attention.

Citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Griefing

<removed>

 

[morgoth]

Lol MA dont care man, they're gunna send you some scripted response and not do jack.


sorry, but it's true.



As for interrupting warps, it's actually easy to deal with, just kill him with the gunner weapon

 

[KullXP]

Not sure if I should bring this up....

There are these things in game called WARP Mines, that are made and used at warp points just to disrupt warps so you can attack any ships warping.

Thats a game feature so MA encourages you to do this or rather I say provides you options to do that.

 

[HardWrath]

Not sure if I should bring this up....

There are these things in game called WARP Mines, that are made and used at warp points just to disrupt warps so you can attack any ships warping.

Thats a game feature so MA encourages you to do this or rather I say provides you options to do that.

Ive never experienced or used a warp mine but the concept seems redundant when all it takes is a pot shot from a (L) Quad to interrupt the warp.

The purpose of either is to stop the warp so you can engage the ship, shoot it down, and then loot the passengers. Neither is for the purpose of interrupting the warp, for the sake of interrupting the warp, and not trying to shoot the ship down.