Infinite Stamina? Bug? Exploit? More stupidity from MA?

We, "SDS", are not responsible for this bug nor is it on our planet. But of course we care about what effect it makes on our users! However it is not our responsibility or our task to actually fix this bug as it is not ours. Our QA have nothing to do with it. It is up to the directly involved PP and MindArk.

I think most of us realizes that a) This wasn't caused by SDS/FPC, and b) The only ones who can do a through investigation, and resolve the consequences from this, is MindArk (I think likelyhood that Rocktropia support staff have write database access - to be able to reverse the gains - is about 0.000001%).

It is possible that SDS/FPC can set upp the mission in a simular way - that is, for instance, letting the "demo mission" to be repeated indefenitley, but that to do so on purpose, you would need permission from MindArk for it to stay ingame long enough for all players to get an equal chance to take advantage of it.

I also think this issue points out the fact that MindArk also needs a community rep, for issues that either is caused by them themselves internally (let's say server problems), or issues that are caused by one planet partner but influences playing on other planets; for instance globals with mob name "???" where it's not obvious to which planet the mob belongs as seen from a player hunting on Calypso.
Though, the only people who have commented on this this far has been you. I haven't yet read info from MA (besides the item drops which was explained to be "normal" - ie not caused by a bug).

Again, I don't expect *FPC* to resolve this, at least not alone. I expect MindArk to fix it, and/or a rep from MindArk to give a response.

And trying to get the thoughts through support is pretty impossible - when I asked about mined sweat bug and what they were going to do I got a reply that basically said "Ask your fellow players how the systems works" (by judging from that answer, if I would come across a mission that would give unlimited stamina it would be ok to abuse it if I just ask someone who abuses it himself). And, again, questions like this where my concern is globalling balancing and how I should act if I come across a huge amount of sweat on *calypso* (if the sweat is legit - if I can buy it - or if I get risk of getting locked if I buy it), probably is best answered by people who are responsible for balancing of sweat and who decide in which way sweat should be brought into the game - if it should be sweated only or if it also can be minable in amounts at over 1 ped TT/claim).

And as to regard for balancing: As this bug affects attributes that have an impact on PVP (max health and running speed) and the attributes are expensive to gain (through hunting mission chains), it gives the people who have abused it an advantage over the people who did not. Also since it is a cost associated with (ab)using the misfeature (ie TP fee), players who afford the fee to try to see if it works will have an advantage over playes who need to think twice before deciding over an unplanned cost of play (ie want to know if a certain procedure is operational and allowed).

I also understand that locking of high level players who have 100k's of peds in their account may not be feasible since they are likely to want to withdraw it if they get a (temporary) lock alternatively the payout that will happen if they get a permanent lock, at the date the avatar expires - so I don't expect any locks. I just expect any unfair advantages to be levelled out.
 
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I was concerned enough to sit on my days off watching this thread and bug other people on their days off about the matter.

Based on your posts Pioneer, and the recent post that Hanne made today, I truly believe that SDS is tuned in and discussing the incidents of the past week or so. I'm certain that something specific can't be shared at this point in time, but at least it's good to get communication letting us know that you do have concerns and are not ignoring all of it.

Thank you! :)
 
Like NDS wanted that .. pfff a bug is a bug .. a shame .. both parties (ma and NDS) know better to test. Shit like this happen.

Maybe so, but the facts remain... The exploiters took advantage of it and should be banned, at least temp, maybe perm.

MA needs to be watching for these things like a hawk and jumping on them IMMEDIATELY. That's how professionals would do it. Oh, wait, we're talking MA...:eyecrazy:

As far as SDS, I'd think they'd be on the phone to MA immediately saying, "WTF are you doing to fix this?" since it is (a) pulling people from their planet who are taking advantage, and (b) giving a boost to players who will soon be coming back to Calypso along with their ill gotten gains.
 
Im really confused what point you're trying to make here. Draw the line about what? About what bugs we can "allow" on other planets that we haven't developed?

We, "SDS", are not responsible for this bug nor is it on our planet. But of course we care about what effect it makes on our users! However it is not our responsibility or our task to actually fix this bug as it is not ours. Our QA have nothing to do with it. It is up to the directly involved PP and MindArk.

fair enough... there's only so much you can do... and we don't really know what has actually been said between SDS and MA...

but the bottom line is that there is a big advantage gained by those who exploited the bug, and unless the stats are taken away, these folks will get a bigger share of the loot pie than the rest of us.

There's percieved, if not actual unfairness occurring, and we all hope that SDS, as the largest planet partner, can pressure MA into making sure that bugs like this have the most minimal effect possible on your player base.
 
hmm in the german court at least there is a simple rule:
"Ignorance is no excuse in law."

If it turns out that there is no rollback or temp ban following this obvious exploit then I believe it is fair to say that this rule does NOT apply in Entropia Universe and therefore I will not follow it anymore ingame.
 
I was concerned enough to sit on my days off watching this thread and bug other people on their days off about the matter.
Good. It displays you (at least in person) have a feeling of responsibility - even if just by association. Sad it happened, but good you state in public you were concerned enough about it to care. Appreciated.

I wish such feeling of responsibility could infect MA too. Feel free to forward this to them/him.
 
Hi everybody
I am pleased to see that SEE staff is concerned by the bugs/exploits happening on other planets : the customers of each planet are or can be the customers of the others and their all economy is linked.

Concerning the support cases : i still submit my bugs reports to planetcalypso support's website as when i try to follow the link to NIsupport's website i get a warning from my webbrowser : "security certicate of this website has a problem; the security certificate of this website has been edited for another website, we recommand you to close this window".

Concerning the stamina : my opinion is that of course the invalid points should be removed, and people who did exploit get all or some of their skills reduced by let say 2% per points aquired (over the 1 regular and 1 or 2 more maybe done before noticing its a bug). Not too much but at least enough to compensate the all luck and other skills that increased quicker after those stamina gain.

Concerning the Time travel crystal bp, there is clearly there also a case of people getting advantages on others ! I explain this here https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...694-Time-Travel-Crystal&p=2690205#post2690205

Concerning MA and its planet partners, i wish they decide to create a dedicated team in charge of monitoring exclusively the exploits done either by participants or by planet partners themselves, intentionals or not, by using ingame avatars to test/control and/or by creating softwares analyzing unexpected skill gains or market manipulation, and multiple avatars owned by same person : only a planet who wants to be sold within a year or 2 wants a huge number of avatars without controlling that they are not from the same avatar.

Well, i wish i and we all find back the confidence and pleasure to be part of this universe when we joined.
Have a nice day/night
Enjoy
 
Maybe so, but the facts remain... The exploiters took advantage of it and should be banned, at least temp, maybe perm.

A temp ban while they get to keep the stamina would be ludicrous. Just roll back the stamina. The punishment comes from the time and (limited) resources they used up to exploit the bug.

:twocents:

(If there isn't a rollback all hell should break loose.)
 
Hanne|We said:
as it is not ours. [/I]Our QA have nothing to do with it. It is up to the directly involved PP and MindArk.

YES YOU ARE (SDS that is)

Because PC is not an independent Game. You are a "planet partner" that uses a "SHARED" economy and "SHARED" avatar settings.

Even if you did not "create" this bug, it will impact players on your planet.

So you should have a MASSIVE interest to get this Fixed by MA or anybody responsible for this ASAP in order not to disrupt the global system.

This game is NOT standalone. Any bug in one system can affect all the others. And either MA manage these problems globally together with all the planet partners or you are simply hurting yourself.

If you don't like this fact, then you sould not be part of the "Entropia Universe"...
 
So you should have a MASSIVE interest to get this Fixed by MA or anybody responsible for this ASAP in order not to disrupt the global system.

There is a rather huge difference between having a massive interest in having the situation resolved and actually being the one responsible for the bug.
 
So you should have a MASSIVE interest to get this Fixed by MA or anybody responsible for this ASAP in order not to disrupt the global system.

If we are to be picky, SDS have a massive interest that other planet partners' missions do not hand out rewards that cause unbalance to the economy. After that, SDS's responsibility in the matter ends.

Most likely, that means that Support or the planet partner disables the bugged missions. Fixing a mission bug requires testing and patch, and thus takes time.
 
I really hope they clear that up soon its too big a temptation and a lot of ppl HUGE exploiting it. I stay waaaaaaay clear of it myself
 
The problem:
There are three parties involved in this.
A) The ones we are communicating with. The one that we do most of our busniess with.
B) The one that is the main source of the problem, able to fix the source but not to repair the damage.
C) The one that has an overview of the system, and the one that can repair the damage.

Here we communicate with (A).
Those of us who really want probably can find the support section and forum to communicate with (B).
Part (C) doesn't want communication with players: Customer support for Entropia Universe is available on your planet's website: Planet Support.
 
I hope MA will do a check and remove the extra stamina from people that clearly exploted the bug. Maybe they chould remove attribute gains from missions to avoid this kind of mess in the future.
 
If we are to be picky, SDS have a massive interest that other planet partners' missions do not hand out rewards that cause unbalance to the economy. After that, SDS's responsibility in the matter ends.

Most likely, that means that Support or the planet partner disables the bugged missions. Fixing a mission bug requires testing and patch, and thus takes time.

Do you mean that it does not matter in any way if the exploiters keep the attributes they got by using a exploit?

If so I have a good business plan for all the PP with too few Persons using their systems, generating decay -> revenue for that PP:

With every VU bring some bugged missions who you can abuse and get attributes, suddenly a rush of every player in EU to that planet after every VU has to happen as otherwise you'll be soon xx points in Attributes behind this group.
So 40 ped transportation fee for several points in Stamina or Agility would be a bargain.

PS: Ups seams like a pattern with VU's on the Rock they already found that out. Sweat in mining, high end finders in the hundreds, 1 Stamina and Agility each hour. Nice tries to get the people over to the Rock.

PPS: I think it is more than only a little nag for FPC if they keep their pace with bugged VU's
Bugs from VU's normally made by then MA/FPC now SDS where mostly costing players money like excessive decay on Armor or whatever now NDS brings the Bugs where the players can gain something nice like additional stamina etc. now what do you think the players like more? Surely if they can keep their rewards and are not sitting on the additional costs(armor decay etc.) from VU's.

Good business model and tactic to get the users of this service over to the rock...
 
Do you mean that it does not matter in any way if the exploiters keep the attributes they got by using a exploit?

:eyecrazy: Wow, I would almost believe you're misunderstanding him on purpose.

What they're saying is that yes, they care deeply about this bug, but it's between RT and MA. SDS isn't in the loop at all, other than being potentially harmed by it.

In short, SDS are just like us players in this case. They care about the outcome, but they can only complain and hope.
 
PS: Ups seams like a pattern with VU's on the Rock they already found that out. Sweat in mining, high end finders in the hundreds, 1 Stamina and Agility each hour. Nice tries to get the people over to the Rock.

DAMN YOU! Now conspiracy is in my mind too!!!
 
:eyecrazy: Wow, I would almost believe you're misunderstanding him on purpose.

What they're saying is that yes, they care deeply about this bug, but it's between RT and MA. SDS isn't in the loop at all, other than being potentially harmed by it.

In short, SDS are just like us players in this case. They care about the outcome, but they can only complain and hope.

Originally Posted by Pioneer|SDS
If we are to be picky, SDS have a massive interest that other planet partners' missions do not hand out rewards that cause unbalance to the economy. After that, SDS's responsibility in the matter ends.

Most likely, that means that Support or the planet partner disables the bugged missions. Fixing a mission bug requires testing and patch, and thus takes time.

Really I only read if bugged mission is disabled they are OK with it. No word that they want the attributes gained by this exploit to be removed thats why this "business plan" idea sprung to my mind. As long as you can keep the attributes or whatever else you get while abusing a bug why not abuse it?
If you need more users on your Planet why not implement some "Bugs" to give the users a incentive to come to your planet and even without real costs to you. In 10 VU's you suddenly have some Avatars with 100 additional Stamina and Agility. Very nice and everyone not abusing it will have some disadvantages.
 
Why didnt SEE buy MA...everything would have been so much easier... x'D
 
If we are to be picky, SDS have a massive interest that other planet partners' missions do not hand out rewards that cause unbalance to the economy. After that, SDS's responsibility in the matter ends.

Most likely, that means that Support or the planet partner disables the bugged missions. Fixing a mission bug requires testing and patch, and thus takes time.

I'm assuming you realize that uber health and faster avatar regen does imbalance the economy... less fapping, advantage in pvp, less decay, etc...

would it be fair to lock (ban) those who completed the mission more than once until such a time as the bug is tested and the stats fixed? seems like the least harsh solution possible for those who took advantage....

I reallize that sds's only legitimate interest is that the misgotten stats do not affect calypso... but as banning avatars from just one planet seems like it's not mechanically possible, I don't think sds would be overstepping its bounds in pressuring MA to do this.
 
If we are to be picky, SDS have a massive interest that other planet partners' missions do not hand out rewards that cause unbalance to the economy. After that, SDS's responsibility in the matter ends.

Most likely, that means that Support or the planet partner disables the bugged missions. Fixing a mission bug requires testing and patch, and thus takes time.

But the interest IS massive since a clever player abusing just the stamina bug can get to such an immense health pool that he can get infinite evasion/dodge related skills proportionate to his hp-regeneration speed. These skills have TT value, being awarded free peds for doing nothing is NOT in any ones interests. Certainly not SDS.

There are hundreds of subtle ways to hurt the economy with these two bugs.

So go to the other office, knock on the door and stare MindArk in the eye till they FIX it. All of it, including all the extra attributes removed and the players who didn't report the issue punished, preferably banned.

NOW!

edit: obviously, the ones responsible for these bugs in the first place should not be allowed to handle content in the future.
 
You have to look at the matter in its context. When Support gets report of a bug, they notify whom it may concern in order to fix the bug. That someone is either the planet partner whose mission caused the bug, and/or MindArk if steps has to be taken by platform. That's the short term context, and by short term I mean what can be done immediately by support and in the next patch by the planet partner. It involves only those parties: support, platform and the planet partner that caused the bug.

Then there is another perspective, the one that you put forth: players will react to the issue, and we have to act on players' reaction in one way or the other. In this context it concerns us, but these are long-term concerns! It involves defining a strategy and implementing that strategy. That takes time. It cannot and should not be handled over a weekend, especially if it is just a bug.

Ok..And what will you doing about all this players who has been jusing this bug and gain so much stamina.:popcorn:

If you would ask me ..I would take all theres stamina and put it to 1 and ban them from the game 6 months.
 
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Ok..And what will you doing about all this players who has been jusing this bug and gain so much stamina.:popcorn:

If you would ask me ..I would take all theres stamina and put it to 1 and ban them from the game 6 months.

....and introduce LG in that periode.... to see what soc has 0 contestants.
 
I think (hope) alot of discussions are happening behind the scenes but they are not allowed to communicate this with us.

If there is a flaw in the mission system it might be bigger then we think and that is also why there is no communication (yet).

Give Pioneer and Hanne a break, i´m sure they are as concerned about this as the rest of us.
 
Let me qoute Marco (years ago):

"Noone needs or uses quests anway"

Thank you Marco.

MA could have done so many wonderfull things instead of developing these "Kill 10k mobs" things.

Thank you too Mr. Timkrans. NOT!
 
As I have said some form of restitution needs to be actioned.
Similary to this case in Australia.
(see below)
In Australia with a self regulated banking system there have been calls upon government to reconcile an issue not dissimilar to this.
A banking and a data base glitch that incurred a signifcant loss to it's banking shareholders (us) but also potentially it's honest customers (us) down the line that has now been met with legal (criminal) implications.
MA must act in this situation as the implied government and remedy coding issue and regulate appropriately.
What remains a significant issue is self regulation if they MA are both coders and regulators (governance) for other platforms that these issues arise within.
Parody link to read below.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/02/3153185.htm
 
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