Why my friend won't play EU

[thoreau]

Having dinner today with a friend who I haven't seen much of lately. We spent some time catching up and talking about work and family. The issue of gaming came up.

He said that is is very bored with his current game, let's call it Devil2. I told him a bit about EU and told him I'd help him get started if he wanted to play.

He asked me, 'Are there a lot of cool items in the game?'

I talked a little about the economy of the game and uber items and such but I tried to keep it real. I told him that most people exist with mid-level gear and it is very rare to get a 'cool' item in a loot.

'What about rings and bracelets and jewels and stuff?'

I explained about the jewels that are in the game and how they aren't really what he is thinking of. No rings and jewelry. No items that give any buffs or items that can be applied to existing items (upgrades.)

'What about really cool armor?'

'How often do boss monsters drop uber items?'

etc...

I spent a good deal of time talking about how EU is different. I explained how there are no level caps - no class limitations - how the challenge to be economical and still have fun it part of the game for many players.

He said, 'Listen dude, I'm not playing a game where all the monsters drop crap. I want to get awesome stuff. I want to say, 'Wow! this is a freakin awesome sword.''

Fair enough. EU isn't for everyone.

But the conversation got me thinking and I called my nephew. He and I used to play EU together 3+ years ago. Back when Longus were slow and two noobs working together could take one down with a couple of Jester D1s.

He is now playing a popular MMO. Let's call it AlwaysQuest2. I asked him what is favorite thing to do in the game was. (I knew the answer)

'I like to look in the broker (auction.) I like to look at all the jewelry and stuff and figure out what would be best against different bosses.'

I knew this answer was coming. I have played this game with him and we often talked about the wide variety of different items in the game.

'Any interest in playing EU again?'

He asked me about the looting now. I told him that usually it is stuff for crafting like oils and hides and such. He then told me something right along the lines of what my friend said. My nephew said, 'I like when I kill a monster and he drops something cool and useful. It's a double bonus if it is something that my character can personallly use.'

Now I know that EU has thousands of different items. And I also know that EU is not for everyone. But there seems to be a class of 'gamer' that likes to see cool and useful items in their loot.

I can imagine that many people download and install EU and spend time learning the game only to get hides and oils in their loots. They might think about to their previous game where the loot contained jewelry and more items that were useful in some fashion.

To make a long post short, my friend won't play EU because there really isn't a lot of cool stuff in the loots. I wonder how many others think the same thing.

 

[E.K.x]

What i always find, is that if i have 2 options, say one is to go play some

world of cheesecraft and fight a boss with 25 people and get a huge freaking shield, or go for a hunt, and have no exciting times as the globals are more making me think im still not breaking even.

EU is strange, in short.

 

[PINKY]

I think many of us would quit if there was no challenge.

i dont want a mod merc to drop every 5 minutes so everyone got one - what would be the point in playing?

However, it would be nice if the uber rares like mod faps dropped at least twice a year, so so we could at least dream about getting one

 

[Supajosh]

if were being honest ,

in eu the best thing you've got a change of looting atm is an UL (L) wep maybe a good one say 60k market value now who in their right mind would prefer a crappy 'ring' that help you kill some boss when you could have 6k dollars in your bank account

what ever happened to fuck what my avatar online can do , how about what i can do irl with that much cash

or am i missing the point

 

[Alice]

considering that i play(ed) for more or less similar reasons

-to level up to get more efficient
which was destroyed with L items since every second, one week old opalo newbie is more eco than i became with my honor sword after 3 years

-to find useful stuff
i got a powerful heal chip at least, could be worse #D

but indeed, finding basically crap

just image of 5 ped oil a 5 ped L weapon would drop

that could be already more interesting

something you could actually use


i won't even start to talk about mentoring #D

 

[thoreau]

I think many of us would quit if there was no challenge.

i dont want a mod merc to drop every 5 minutes so everyone got one - what would be the point in playing?

However, it would be nice if the uber rares like mod faps dropped at least twice a year, so so we could at least dream about getting one

I agree with this. I consider a mod map or mod merc or imp mk2 to be among the top tier of weapons. It would be nice if we knew that one of these class of weapons dropped at least once per year.

And I think that my friend and nephew were not talking about getting the Elite Jade Dragon Protection Shield in every loot. Rather, in an hour or two of hunting it would be nice to get a few very useable items. Rather than a bunch of oils and skins.

 

[Hardicus]

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record I think, but here goes anyway.

MA have totally shot themselves in the foot.

I understand and even agree with uber items being rare (even to the point that they are now, although maybe a little more frequent would be nice, say one or two of either ModFap, MM, IMK2 per year).

But even somewhat useful low-mid level items drop as rarely as the most uber of items.

Bear Shins, one of the rarest items ingame...Nemesis armour, rare as hell and not even that good. Starkhov's - stupidly rare for what they are. MKIII/IV, not too awesome but never seen one drop in my time in PE/EU.

Hell when was the last time someone looted an EP40? Or for that matter what about SGH 2200?

Why does MA deprive it's players of the small thrill of looting even something slightly useful that isn't worth a lot but could actually be used by the looter?

And not to mention the exhorbitant prices on mid-level gear like LM or ML35.

I think it's going to be hard for EU to expand into gamer territory anymore, they've alienated enough people that it's not likely anyone will take it seriously. Their only option is to pimp the 'Virtual Universe' concept and bring in millions of Chinese and Thai 'entrepreneurs' at the expense of the 'game' aspect of this game.

[edit: and to be honest, i'd feel like a right asshole recommending EU to friends and family, it's getting harder and harder to find a selling point that I actually believe in]

 

[E.K.x]

if were being honest ,

now who in their right mind would prefer a crappy 'ring' that help you kill some boss when you could have 6k dollars in your bank account

or 6k USD out of your bank account?

 

[salman06p0020]

He is not talking of Uber items. He is saying that there has to be some useful items other than the oils and crap etc....Something which he can use, something which is balanced and gives you a slight advantage, either in hunting, mining or crafting.

 

[thoreau]

He is not talking of Uber items. He is saying that there has to be some useful items other than the oils and crap etc....Something which he can use, something which is balanced and gives you a slight advantage, either in hunting, mining or crafting.

Yes! It's not about the uber items. It's about hunting for 2 hours and getting an item or two that you can actually use.

 

[True Juan]

Not enough cool stuff ingame - thats why im quiting... weeee

 

[dbelinfante]

To make a long post short, my friend won't play EU because there really isn't a lot of cool stuff in the loots. I wonder how many others think the same thing.

I would love to see more interesting items in loot. But I think the RCE kinda rules it out. Something is either special, and thus valuable, or common, and thus tt food. If rare stuff drops all the time, it ain't rare...
In a game with no RCE, you can drop weird and unique stuff all the time, all the other stuff won't depreciate because of it (it has no value to start with).
So I think it comes with the nature of the game. The good side of it is, if something rare DOES drop, it's a lot more special than in a non-RCE game.

 

[True Juan]

Bullshit! Cool stuff can droop all the time - MA wont loose any money BUUUUT they wont make any so why drop any items - we cans just f#ck around with them... yeah just -REP me, thats how it is on EF anyways ---> I dont give a sh*t!!!!!

 

[sunjewel]

ah yes . . . lol

easy skilling makes for short attention span

I have played the other games . . . even have a level 70 pally
but lately not much thrill in playing
some virtual worlds you have to take a break from to generate more interest within

have taken a one year break from the virtual world of chaos (third life)

overall I have realized that if they "give" me everything . . . I get bored

challenge is why we stay

jewels

;>

 

[Tussi]

MA have totally shot themselves in the foot.

Yes, but before that - with the same bullet - through the chest and the head.

I understand and even agree with uber items being rare (even to the point that they are now, although maybe a little more frequent would be nice, say one or two of either ModFap, MM, IMK2 per year).

Some uber items (like the ones mentioned) shouldn't have existed in the first place - one reason why they don't drop.

But even somewhat useful low-mid level items drop as rarely as the most uber of items.

Only thing that was really usefull and drops is H400.

Bear Shins, one of the rarest items ingame...Nemesis armour, rare as hell and not even that good. Starkhov's - stupidly rare for what they are. MKIII/IV, not too awesome but never seen one drop in my time in PE/EU.

It's all part of the MA strategy.

Hell when was the last time someone looted an EP40? Or for that matter what about SGH 2200?

Whatever this may be...

Why does MA deprive it's players of the small thrill of looting even something slightly useful that isn't worth a lot but could actually be used by the looter?

Because MA is running a big case study on masochism.
They want to find out how much people can take.
And as it seems to be it's plenty.
So they bring it on.

And not to mention the exhorbitant prices on mid-level gear like LM or ML35.

In case MA would really want to have a balanced universe then they would make sure that tt+1k is the highest markup on an item possible (by countering it with enough drops until the price comes down).
But they like big numbers, so they don't care about John and Jane Doe.
To bad they made skills tradeable - so every spoiled rich kid can buy in with moms credit card and be uber in no time - which fucked up the skillsystem and the market big time.

I think it's going to be hard for EU to expand into gamer territory anymore, they've alienated enough people that it's not likely anyone will take it seriously.

Yep.
As soon as anyone interested finds out that as soon as mid-levl is reached the additional mandatory deposit to improve the avatar (just for items, not speaking of skills needed) so that it stops bleeding $ on a daily basis starts at a reasonable 10k$ ...

Their only option is to pimp the 'Virtual Universe' concept and bring in millions of Chinese and Thai 'entrepreneurs' at the expense of the 'game' aspect of this game.

And guess how we'll feel about that?
(hint: multiply current feeling by 5)
And BTW: What game?
Given the bugs i have encountered today - fapping twice and getting only once the heal, 1 second freeze before critter hit me with final critical, missing 3 times a row with maxed (L) gun at point blank (on a regular basis), this item is currently busy and cannot be accessed (which they should change into we just liked to fuck around with you for no reason) which all (i wonder why) just cost me PED (or fun (or both)) (see signatures of some of the members here for a clue) - i guess it's no wonder why i came to the following conclusion:

[edit: and to be honest, i'd feel like a right asshole recommending EU to friends and family, it's getting harder and harder to find a selling point that I actually believe in]

to be honest: i gave up recommending EU a long time ago - that has the upside that i'm only feeling stupid wasting time and money on a pointless quest (shooting PED into mobs and only getting back a fraction of it on a regular basis - driven by the futile hope of looting something nice or hitting it big) and not feeling like an asshole because i fed some other poor (well, at least they soon will be less rich money wise) souls to it.

Tussi

 

[True Juan]

Yes, but before that - with the same bullet - through the chest and the head.

Some uber items (like the ones mentioned) shouldn't have existed in the first place - one reason why they don't drop.

Only thing that was really usefull and drops is H400.

It's all part of the MA strategy.

Whatever this may be...

Because MA is running a big case study on masochism.
They want to find out how much people can take.
And as it seems to be it's plenty.
So they bring it on.

In case MA would really want to have a balanced universe then they would make sure that tt+1k is the highest markup on an item possible (by countering it with enough drops until the price comes down).
But they like big numbers, so they don't care about John and Jane Doe.
To bad they made skills tradeable - so every spoiled rich kid can buy in with moms credit card and be uber in no time - which fucked up the skillsystem and the market big time.

Yep.
As soon as anyone interested finds out that as soon as mid-levl is reached the additional mandatory deposit to improve the avatar (just for items, not speaking of skills needed) so that it stops bleeding $ on a daily basis starts at a reasonable 10k$ ...
And guess how we'll feel about that?
(hint: multiply current feeling by 5)
And BTW: What game?
Given the bugs i have encountered today - fapping twice and getting only once the heal, 1 second freeze before critter hit me with final critical, missing 3 times a row with maxed (L) gun at point blank (on a regular basis), this item is currently busy and cannot be accessed (which they should change into we just liked to fuck around with you for no reason) which all (i wonder why) just cost me PED (or fun (or both)) (see signatures of some of the members here for a clue) - i guess it's no wonder why i came to the following conclusion:

to be honest: i gave up recommending EU a long time ago - that has the upside that i'm only feeling stupid wasting time and money on a pointless quest (shooting PED into mobs and only getting back a fraction of it on a regular basis - driven by the futile hope of looting something nice or hitting it big) and not feeling like an asshole because i fed some other poor (well, at least they soon will be less rich money wise) souls to it.

Tussi

ALL you say is so true +REP to you mate

 

[Tussi]

In a game with no RCE, you can drop weird and unique stuff all the time, all the other stuff won't depreciate because of it (it has no value to start with).

As a sidenote: tt-food is worthless by definition (else you wouldn't throw it into tt), so it won't depreciate because something intersting drops.

The whole thing about MA trying to generate markup on all stuff is so that the normal player dosn't realize how much he's milked (because he can recover a bit of the expenses through markup).

Tussi

 

[thoreau]

I really don't want this to evolve into a complaining thread.

Rather, I wanted to point out that the lack of items in loots might be hurting the growth of EU. I think there are a lot of gamers who enjoy when mobs drop items that are very cool and worth talking about. I know this happens in EU - but perhaps not often enough for the avg gamer.

With regards to the RCE - I wonder how much it would hurt MA if more items dropped with 0 TT value? For example, would it hurt MA if Vigi and Nem armor parts dropped 10x more often but with a 0 TT value? For sure, much of the EU community might be angry that the value of their Nem armor is reduced - but would MA be hurt? Wouldn't the fact that players would have to deposit more to use that newly looted armor (repair) help MA?

I was out hunting this evening and got a global. This is a special event. Swirlies and my name in the chat window. My reward? ~65 PED worth of oil and wool.

Would it hurt MA if that 65 PED global included a 0 TT M2875?

Would more items in the loot window help EU to attract new players even if those items have a 0 TT?

 

[-Ra]

If there is one thing I have learned in my almost 3 years of PE, and i can thank MA themselves for teaching me this.. it took the entire time here to learn it, and maybe I can help you all be a bit more at ease..

ok here it goes.. EU is dynamic.. there I hope that helped you solve your problems...

 

[Cloud]

I agree basically with what Hardicos and DB wrote.

My added opinion is that although the loot is disappointing it is primarily the game play that is eroding in EU.
MA, its not against the EULA to try and improve the gameplay experience to be more fun and more exhilarating.

I played the other World of game and had two L70s and i and most people playing found the gameplay enjoyable and a great part of what was appealing.
The only reason i left there and sold my characters was because of the level of immaturity in it, and the constant public chat that was like a kindergarten on red cordial.
Apart from that it was affordable and fun, gameplay was excellent.

This place needs some revitalisation of the gameplay, without it it will turn into a virtual world of people too far committed financially to leave.

And for Ra, "dynamic" isnt a synonym for good or positive

Cloud

 

[Trina Xenophage]

I joined EU cause a friend told me I could play a game using real money. I knew there was some sort of investment as there always will be when money is involved. Ipeaked when I was told of the nice items that could be had and was really impressed when I saw the play of the game when watching him one night.

It took me about 6 months of skilling before I realized and learned that ANYTHING worth haveing in game stopped dropping over 3 years before I even heard of the game. I truely realized there was a problem after paying attention to the adds in game trying to get us to play. When I thought about it I figured out ..why do they play the commercials in the game where they already had us into playing?.. Its similar to subliminal messaging.. we KNOW there is no way in hell we are going to get that uber item with out buying it. but hearing that You could be and you could loot and you could make message over and over makes you forget YOU CANT!

I keep playing because of friendships and the challenge to beat the system a different way. Even removing one grain of sand a day can wear down a cement wall... I got nothin but time to kill and thats why I am still here.
No uber items so what..I can scrap a lil off the edges of what everyone else tries and win so to speak..

and finally I to no longer recommed EU to friends..enimies IN A HEART BEAT. Ill gladly win their ped.

 

[Sunab Naverith]

You're suggestion of including 0 tt items in the loot remind me of ESI's (or GSI's for you older-time players). When I started playing almost 2 years ago, ESI's dropped with 0 TT value, so they didn't apply towards the total value of the loot/global/hof/etc. Was a random "cool" drop to get, with an average price tag of ~100 ped an ESI. A nice bonus, a cool thing to get - etc.

A year ago, MA changed ESI's to have a TT value of upwards of 1250 ped apiece. Now there are entire globals and hofs that are nothing other than value of ESI's, which are sold for a large chunk of ped, which are then used by the ubers to chip out and leave.

I find this trend ironic, because for quite a while a few of the ubers had been asking for larger ESI's, or some way to put more skills on an ESI, one way or the other. I knew a few ubers who could use 5-10 ESI's just to drop ONE skill point, thus making a concept of chipping out at that time virtually non-existent. Now that it exists though, we see more people leaving the game and selling their skills to clueless n00bs with large visa cards, who are more than happy to chip up & get those kickass hofs & globals... of oils.

I'd sign a petition for MA to re-introduce actual ITEMS into the loot pool. I mean c'mon, they do something similar for Mentor items, when a disciple graduates, a 0 ped item is spawned. This is NO money out of MA's pocket, and can create more revenue, simply because the item MUST be repaired before it's used/sold, AND someone MUST pay higher than TT to buy it (if it's a good item).

I could seriously see UL versions of guns being dropped with any value ranging from 0%~50% base value. I know people who would willingly buy a 0% TT Emik X5 UL, and put their own 10k+ ped on the gun in order to use it (which then MA virtually can guarantee won't go anywhere - who would TT such an amazing gun?!).

Same thread has been made a hundred times since MA removed regular 'mid-level' items from loots, and they have all died. MA knows they can keep doing this shit, simply because they have such a unique game, and that so many people love it. It's just... the way it is.
I've said it a dozen times though, if MA reintroduced the old items back into the loot system (with a higher than 0.0001% drop rate!) I would find a way to deposit $1k USD and go hard-core hunting on a specific mob, just so I could get a CHANCE of looting that item. Y'know, just like the feeling I had when I looted my FreanD Delta gun... .

 

[EarlVonKippler]

i thought MA was trying to fix the problem when more (L) stuff started dropping. it was months and months of just breers and mining amps, then POW tons of new guns and armors and tools. BUT they don't drop often enough. not even the cb5 or other low end shit. if they doubled or even tripled the (L) drop rate, just saturate the market we'd get more useful stuff for sure. as it is right now 99% of my loot is useful for crafters only.

 

[ACEwoK]

I really don't want this to evolve into a complaining thread.

Rather, I wanted to point out that the lack of items in loots might be hurting the growth of EU. I think there are a lot of gamers who enjoy when mobs drop items that are very cool and worth talking about. I know this happens in EU - but perhaps not often enough for the avg gamer.

With regards to the RCE - I wonder how much it would hurt MA if more items dropped with 0 TT value? For example, would it hurt MA if Vigi and Nem armor parts dropped 10x more often but with a 0 TT value? For sure, much of the EU community might be angry that the value of their Nem armor is reduced - but would MA be hurt? Wouldn't the fact that players would have to deposit more to use that newly looted armor (repair) help MA?

I was out hunting this evening and got a global. This is a special event. Swirlies and my name in the chat window. My reward? ~65 PED worth of oil and wool.

Would it hurt MA if that 65 PED global included a 0 TT M2875?

Would more items in the loot window help EU to attract new players even if those items have a 0 TT?

this is a really good suggestion mate +rep when it lets me

 

[Stratos]

Its not alone the cool items what makes the difference to other MMORPG it is more the RCE what makes it impossible to have a high drop rate of cool items.
You must never forget that every animal oil and every MOD FAP has a direct value in $ for you (for MA only the TT value of both).
The main concept is exact the opposit here than in other MMORPG i know. (regardless if free or with monthly fee)
Whatever you do in other MMORPG, you end up with cool stuff or at least with more coins in the ingame currency as you started your actions. That is possible there because it wont hurt the company because they are worthless outher the game.


A possible solution for EU would be to implement personal items which are not tradeable so they wont affect your witdrawable value.

My 2pecs

 

[Tussi]

I could seriously see UL versions of guns being dropped with any value ranging from 0%~50% base value. I know people who would willingly buy a 0% TT Emik X5 UL, and put their own 10k+ ped on the gun in order to use it (which then MA virtually can guarantee won't go anywhere - who would TT such an amazing gun?!).

Don't you think something is wrong when you have to load the tt-value of an average avatar into a gun to use it?

You must never forget that every animal oil and every MOD FAP has a direct value in $ for you (for MA only the TT value of both). A possible solution for EU would be to implement personal items which are not tradeable so they wont affect your witdrawable value.

There is only one reason for modfap not to drop in high enough quantities to lower the markup on it to a reasonable level (which would be about 5% of current level): It's to cheap to use.

Tussi

 

[Sunab Naverith]

Don't you think something is wrong when you have to load the tt-value of an average avatar into a gun to use it?

TBH, yes. Except for Mentor Edition items. But I was stating what I did because currently you can only loot some of the great UL versions of L weapons at ~50% tt, which can end up being an insane uber hof just by itself. Having a chance of them dropping <50% value gives players a greater chance rather than 1:1,000,000 loots to get one.

There is only one reason for modfap not to drop in high enough quantities to lower the markup on it to a reasonable level (which would be about 5% of current level): It's to cheap to use.

Tussi

I remember somewhere that the reason modfaps just simply aren't seen anymore is that something like 80% of them are duped from an old beta bug or something. They reached their critical mass for them a few years early, expect to see the next one drop sometime in 2010 .

 

[Tussi]

I remember somewhere that the reason modfaps just simply aren't seen anymore is that something like 80% of them are duped from an old beta bug or something. They reached their critical mass for them a few years early, expect to see the next one drop sometime in 2010 .

If that would be the case then I as MA would have remove all duped ones (or even all of them in case i am unable to figure out which is which) - or - inflated healt of avatars to phase them out of the game quickly (because it dosn't really make a difference if you get hit for 80 damage with 120 health or 800 damage while having 1200 health).

Tussi

 

[nutter]

MA should drop enough items to keep the max TT+ value approx +10k for mid-level items. Uber items should stay as they are (they are only traded between the resellers anyhoo).

I agree with most of the sentiments here. EU is becoming a dull place, and I do not reccomend this game to anyone anymore. I am in the process of cycling my peds till nothing is left, then ill sell my skills and bye bye.

Other games are coming up fast on MA's idea, and look to be better even at thier current early stage.

MA have screwed the pooch by stopping (almost) useful item drops.

RIP EU

 

[aridash]

i think at the heart of the problem is that MA lost control of the market and cannot fix it as they would like. Some say it is by design that bear shins dont drop, of course it is in so far as the drop rate is controlled. but why is it so tightly controlled so that drops are almost 0?

People have put more and moreny deposits into items that the price of items underpins the economy. if you dropped a half dozen ML35 a month you risk the price falling and they are willing to take that risk. if confidence in prices is eroded you could have a sudden deflation and that could potential kill out EU in a very short time, maybe less than a year.

(L) was attempt to head off this problem they saw developing, but for unknown reasons they have decided to maintain the same poor drop rate. I think in some areas it works, Korss and rikers, low end BLP seem to drop frequenly enough for their levels. but other stuff is way off, how many complete sets of Jag (L) are available? then there is the crafting aspect where they clearly wanted to heavily promote the profession and it works really well up to a point, but then they have daft drop levels of some components used to create items only available from limited BP. Ghost footguards only on (L) bp, what the hell is that about?

There are many such oddities and contradictions in the "balance". Why are L items all SIB and maxed at realativly low levels, except for faps where the requirements for anything over 80 heal is insanly high (id love to know from the crafters if they do actually sell any OxyXXXX faps)? Why are the L weapons eco so good after they removed the opalo+A106 option? why are the L amps so poor economy verses the unL ones, surely to encourage use they should be the same or better? there should be more clear eco/uneco options, a trade off for loosing economy. where are the L ranged rifles.

So in essence we have created the problem, but MA hasnt reacted sufficently to provide a solution. the only hope people have now is to play for profit, selling on oils for 102%. I think the way forward would be to reintroduce poorer eco unL items so we have the choice to either play for toys or play for economic gain.