Woo Im Getting Banned... :P

[sledgehammer]

I hear all these people saying "IT'S NO BIG DEAL. IT'S JUST A FEW PENNIES A DAY!"

At issue is not the amount of sweat these cretons are getting. At issue is what the sweat they're selling is doing to the economy. By adding this glut of sweat onto the market, they have already lowered the price by 40%. This means that a new player will have to spend 40% more time out there sweating to accomplish the same amount of ped in order to get started in this game.

With exceptions, of course, most people do not deposit until they have been able to purchase their first bit of equipment, and go hunting or mining. So the exploiters have effectively made it nearly twice as long a road to get to that point, and how many people do you think are going to quit before they ever get there? I know I've already seen them.

So if we have less new depositors, and more of the old ones are leaving, what are we left with? A bigger % cut out of our money so MA can keep the lights on. Don't think it could happen? It has already started.

 

[Caiman]

You can expect that it will be on youtube soon Anyone think MA will do anything?

Any press is good press for MA at the moment.

 

[wobbledag]

It is unfair on the new players at Nea's or Swamp camp!
It's time for the border patrol to get their act together!
Start running the noobs from Nea's and Swamp Camp to Fury!

Do your duty, Entropia noobs need you!

 

[timmmers]

The sweat may not be worth much, the people doing it may not destroy the game, but what if someone finds a bigger bug after VU10 ? That's going to be OK too is it, or does the right or wrong of what people do depend on the scale of what they do?

One guy dropping his gum outside your home ...NP, 50 a day do the same...not the same is it?

Skills gained sweating are worth having if you can gain enough easily...a nice bonus.

Guys knowing they are abusing the system and then attacking the guys who don't abuse the system as if they are somehow wrong..that's really odd to me.

Pity MA can't make this sweat untradeableand undroppable...so you spend days cheating until you weigh too much to walk and then find you're stuck with it

t

 

[Pepto]

The sweat may not be worth much, the people doing it may not destroy the game, but what if someone finds a bigger bug after VU10 ? That's going to be OK too is it, or does the right or wrong of what people do depend on the scale of what they do?

Thank you +rep

 

[Jimmy B]

Looks like it takes about 13 seconds for 1 attempt so it is about 276 tries per hour * 12 average bottles * 20% chance = 662,4 bottles per hour

Hmm hard to believe...
That could suggest that it is not really 20% chance...
Maybe we need some new sweating chance experiments now.

I believe that 20% chance is fairly well documented. Would be easy enough to test if you're not convinced.

I never sweat, and one day went to see if I could get 1000 bottles in an hour as a challenge (before knowing the theoretical 660 limit). I went to PA and sweated mobs there, and killed them once they aggro'ed me. So I was running around a lot and wasting plenty of time. In 60minutes I got 426 bottles, so 660 bph at Nea's doesn't strike me as particularly unlikely.

 

[Miles]

Let Me Get This Straight

Hi,

had planned to stay clear of this poisoned topic but I cannot help:


Fully agree, +Rep for it!

It's more than ridiculous, and shameful for our community, what a witch hunt is created here.
A witch hunt against participants that utilize a hole in a game to earn whooping fractions of a meager USD a day - and this in a game that has a long, long tradition of exploits, cheats and scamming ...

A huge amount of the skills our todays Ubers are enjoying was made with methods that would be bannable today (*1). A good part of the Uber gear our todays Ubers are enjoying was duped (1*). And even in this thread there are reports that the exact same method these sweaters use is well known & used among higher skilled participants, for ways better results.

No one seems to care about? Well, maybe it would be more dangerous to engage well established participants for cheating or exploiting?

So our self promoted "deputies for greater justice" cowardly whack on those that they know they'll not be able to defend, in their border patrol crusade ...

Despicable, IMHO, and a shame for our community!

MA should know now what happens, and MA is the one that has to decide if they want to punish - and whom. Instead organizing lynch mobs to terrorize some that cannot defend isn't something to be proud of, IMHO.

No respect. No fun.


(1*) That a huge part of todays Uber skills and gear isn't legal doesn't mean that todays user might be illegal, too - this are things that are traded and an ESI isn't labeled "this evade was created by chirpies" or such. So benefit of doubt - I'm not accusing anyone to be a cheater - even if I have seen todays well known participants bathing in lava pools, hiding in trees among drones, trapping hugest mobs for weeks ...

Would I have felt it would have been such an abominable crime I had made screen shots to document, and making a support case about.


PS: Some quotes from the TOU, might be helpful to remember:
(bold by me)

From: 8. MindArk’s Rules of Conduct

And:


What is going on here is IMHO a clear violation of part 8.d of the TOA, 8.j clearly tells us how to react. And as such I have reported this post and asked the admins to close these threads.

So is your position that because bugs were exploited in the past, bugs should be exploitable now and forever? Or is it that even cheating that has a direct, negative effect on others avatars should not bother them? Or is that MA should just change the EULA and say all bugs should be considered features, so exploit away?

Yes, it is up to MA to act as judge, jury, and possibly executioner for those abusing this or any exploit, as well as those who see fit to oppose them vigilante fashion.

No, it is not ethical behavior to cheat by exploiting bugged behavior. The fact of the matter is that MA has banned avatars in the past and will do so in the future. It is also true that many have gotten away with the the abuse of exploits in the past, and do so today.

I am not accusing anyone in particular of cheating, I have no first hand knowledge of who is or isn't doing so, but I am most definitely accusing those who knowingly abuse and exploit such bugs of cheating. And I am not only saying so of the sweaters - it is just as true of those who hunt trapped mobs is a risk-free manner.

Intentionally exploiting bugs is cheating, period. It is now, it was then, and unless MA changes the EULA, it will continue to be so. MA should punish those who do it. Those who chose to take justice into their own hands also risk running afoul of the EULA, and should suffer the consequences if they do.

Rationalizing away the cheating now because of cheating in the past is fallacious and amoral. We should be striving for a Calypso in which there is ever less cheating, and we should encourage MA/FPC to take action against those who are guilty of cheating now.



Miles

 

[wizzszz]

Mind Godwin’s Law!!

 

[sledgehammer]

Miles, when I get back to my computer (I post from my phone during the day, and the browser capabilities are limited) +rep for you

 

[Lucky Seven]

More like I dont think we need an ingame police system, with people posting this crap in the forum when they should be submitting a support ticket.

The last thing we need in this game is a group of d-bags running around shouting orders to other players. If you see someone exploiting, report them to MA, its not your job to enforce the rules.

And take your "implied" and shove it.

If you cant take a joke thats your problem.

 

[Norbert]

wow this is getting outta hand.

I dislike the fact that this bug still exists, but while it is there more people start to use it. With tumbling sweat prices and no "official word" on it, then it will go on. I sweat mainly for evade, but i have to admit that the value of sweat (time) is at an incredible low.

MA/FPC need to make their stand clear in a post on the loader of EU so that every user of the known bug knows the possible consiquence of continuing to do so.

Also the only way to increase price of sweat really is to stimulate demand. Again down to FPC/MA to do, maybe create a new area of MF, new powers (chips) that have SIB, or use of sweat with new plants used to make combat stimulants that would boost main attributes for a period ( perhaps with a new crafting offshoot biochemistry).

 

[PINKY]

Yesterday I had to explain to my little girl about "two wrongs don't make a right".

Basically another girl pushed her and she pushed her back, the end result was both of them fighting, the teacher stepping in and both of them getting upset and crying about it.

I explained to her, that she was just as in the wrong as the little girl who pushed her because she did it too.

I asked her what she thought she should have done, and after a little bit of thought, she said she should have told the teacher and left the other girl alone.

My daughter is five years old and she has learnt hitting other people back when they do something wrong doesnt make you in the right. She now knows that if she tells the teacher and moves off to play with the other children she wont be told off when the other girl is told off for pushing other kids.


I think some of you could learn a lesson from my 5 year old.

 

[sledgehammer]

As I see the line oof posts regarding a certain comparison have been deleted, I have deleted my response in this post.

Also: good on ya Jimmy B.

 

[Norbert]

diluted
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[wobbledag]

Yesterday I had to explain to my little girl about "two wrongs don't make a right".

Basically another girl pushed her and she pushed her back, the end result was both of them fighting, the teacher stepping in and both of them getting upset and crying about it.

I explained to her, that she was just as in the wrong as the little girl who pushed her because she did it too.

I asked her what she thought she should have done, and after a little bit of thought, she said she should have told the teacher and left the other girl alone.

My daughter is five years old and she has learnt hitting other people back when they do something wrong doesnt make you in the right. She now knows that if she tells the teacher and moves off to play with the other children she wont be told off when the other girl is told off for pushing other kids.


I think some of you could learn a lesson from my 5 year old.

Shouldn't you have gone round and beat the other girls mom up?

 

[Joser]

I think some of you could learn a lesson from my 5 year old.

I think your 5 year old was fortunate to have an authority figure around to sort stuff out in a timely manner.

 

[PINKY]

Shouldn't you have gone round and beat the other girls mom up?

Well obviously I did that after!

I think your 5 year old was fortunate to have an authority figure around to sort stuff out in a timely manner.

You saying I should wade in and give them all a spanking? I see you point, but still doesnt make revenge action the right thing to do...

I must admit though, a simple post saying abusing the glitch is a locakble offense and harrassing other players (regardless of their actions) is also a lockable offence would have ended the whole (boring) thing a long time ago.

 

[wobbledag]

And what would us ppl with no life (on either side of this arguement) have to keep us interested? Exactly! We be forced to watch the "my boobs got bigger" thread ALL day

 

[sledgehammer]

And what would us ppl with no life (on either side of this arguement) have to keep us interested? Exactly! We be forced to watch the "my boobs got bigger" thread ALL day

As boring and tiresome as some claim these threads to be, they do seem to keep reading and posting in them

 

[burnsey]

ruh roh, Here come the sweat police

 

[Mordrell]

When I first played EU back when it was still called PE... we used to trap mobs on the slopes at zychion citadell and sweat them dry, and the hunters would then kill the dry mobs. It was posible to sweat big corns this way.

In the end MA changed it so that stuck mobs cant be sweated or killed. This was also just as big an exploit as the server-border exploit but nobody complained (as far as I know) or was banned because of it.

They will fix this whenever they feel like it, and remember sweat cost MA nothing so I dont think its very high on their priority list.

I was going to say more but ahh wth.... this is a stupid discussion that will never end.

 

[Mr Trayles]

Just curious, is what the op did against the eula? If so, then it's a matter of "two wrongs". If not, then I don't see what the problem is.

But I think that harrassing others would be against the eula. But I also don't think that he is the first person to drag mobs in to cause mischief. I don't think that your reason for doing it matters one lick. If it's wrong, it's wrong. If it's not, it's not.

What I really don't understand are the people who are up in arms against the person who tries to "police" the situation while not really giving a hoot about those that are in definete violation of the eula.

To me, I say, who cares if he is trying to take matters into his own hands? Those people are taking advantage of an obvious flaw. So who cares what he does to them? Why are you knocking him so badly? Is it affecting your play somehow?

 

[Jambayze]

MA should make that spot PVP.

 

[sledgehammer]

Why are you knocking him so badly? Is it affecting your play somehow?

It is if it's their alt using the border

Also, Jambayze, regardless of the cheaters, I think we'd all prefer it if Letum was confined to Amethera for his noob PK trolling.

Edit: I do take beginners on a lot of tp runs, and having to worry about Letum every time we crossed a main border would cramp my style just a bit

 

[Lefty]

1. How many avatars would a crook have to multibox in order to earn a living wage sweating at borders?

2. What would said crook have to pay its internet provider for enough bandwidth to do so?

3. What possible actions which the rest of us are able to take would actually be effective?

Meh. Excuse me, but I got a train to run. On the rig. For Evade.

 

[safara]

MA should make that spot PVP.

Not just that spot. A few of them. And yes, this would indeed be a fine thing

It would greatly improve my gaming experience. And quite cheaply as well LOL

 

[Euhura]

I must admit though, a simple post saying abusing the glitch is a lockable offense and harassing other players (regardless of their actions) is also a lockable offense would have ended the whole (boring) thing a long time ago.

I agree. + rep

 

[micker]

Hell, theres nothing I hate more than people taking the law into their hands. Forcing what they think is right onto other people. Is somebody paying you?.. Do you mistakenly think somebody will?.. These poor newcomers make nothing more then 2-3 PEDs a day (best case) from those mobs, and now, theres some asshat that feels like he needs to take that away as-well.

You're such an attention [seeker], it's so imminent: the title of this topic, messing around with the sweaters and capturing how they fight you back on camera, etc..
Learn 2 Socialize.

+++++++++REP!!! I'm so happy someone said it. I just wish I could have been here to say it myself on the first page of the thread.

 

[SpikeBlack]

When I first played EU back when it was still called PE... we used to trap mobs on the slopes at zychion citadell and sweat them dry, and the hunters would then kill the dry mobs. It was posible to sweat big corns this way.

a lot us used this method, especially at the downed space ships near Camp Pheonix. The other trick was to get mobs coralled in the fences at stables.

In the end MA changed it so that stuck mobs cant be sweated or killed. This was also just as big an exploit as the server-border exploit but nobody complained (as far as I know) or was banned because of it.

and its been a right pain in the arse in beacons ever since.

They will fix this whenever they feel like it, and remember sweat cost MA nothing so I dont think its very high on their priority list.

I don't expect a fix for this any time soon, it might be fundamental issue with the existing engine that either cannot be fixed quickly as it means changing a lot of code or it just can't be done. With CE2 so close its not worth the time and effort to fix. All this exploit does is drive the cost of sweat down, leading more people to depositing which is what MA wants afterall.

The mobs get stuck because the current engine cannot handle the mobs transfering between servers, we can only hope that its fixed in CE2 so we'll get a proper mob migration effect but then we'll get people dragging spiders into PA

 

[saintvio]

Good old saying: "Don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong". Let them play, it's THEIR RISK, it's THEIR DECISION. But it's absolutely disgusting having people like him in here, that act just as described by LivingGod: "EFD Hunting", " 'look at me' mentality", looking for "proclaimed glory", a "medal or a pin". This is absolutely disgusting. This is how kids behave in kindergartens. This is not the way a grown-up person should behave like.

They could be exploiting, they could be a bunch of shit people, but it's THEIR RISK and it's their choice. You shouldn't interfere with it, Power-ranger.

I mean for fuck's sake, this dude here was harassing these poor people for weeks in a row now. Is he ever going to grow up?.. What a damn child. He is simply a douche regardless if what he did was good or not - it's not moral. If I had a mate exploiting, I'd tell him "dude, this can get you banned so be careful", I wouldn't harass him for weeks and weeks, piss him off for no reason, than take pictures and videos of him and send it to Mindark.

"LOOK AT ME, I FOUND PEOPLE EXPLOTING, MINDARK, PLEASE BAN THEM AND HONOR ME WITH A GOOD PRIZE!"

Grow up.

get a job
stop being poor
it's annoying