Should there be compensation?

[mastermesh]

the reason why tiering should have been like this from the beginning.

EU is dynamic. Perhaps they did it like they did in the phase I part of tier system to get more crafting done or something as it was slowed down previously for some reason, which in some strange way got more miners active, which was needed for some reason or the other... and the introduction of the n00b gear to the TT machine helped that on some levels... It's all about balancing. This new change was needed and is something that the community did ask for. MA and FPC both seem to be listening to the community more, which is AWESOME! However, it's also dangerous since it means that things are even more dynamic now then they were in the past, so any system that you begin to like or love can be altered at the drop of a hat! EU is dynamic, and it should be, but since the RCE is suppossed to be "safe" there should be some little rules applied that are not in place now where MA will say, ok, we might adjust this and that, but x, y, and z will never change... and stick to it... not change the promises like so many politicians running for office do as soon as they get elected.

 

[Razer]

I believe the "old" tiering system was implemented to get rid of some of the illegal items in game that appeared years ago due to a bug that some how cause items to double themselves. I think these items unbalanced the game (because the game is a very delicately balanced thing). With this tiering MA took away some of those items, balancing the game again. Because the game is not a casino according to Swedish law, the items that needed to be removed were determined before hand and anyone that happen to tier one of them lost the item. For all the other items the % of success were valid, but for those few items they were not and you had a bigger chance of loosing it (maybe even 100%??).

So, all or most of the illegal items are out of the game now, so MA could change the system gotten rid of the imbalance.

Sure it sucks for people to loose an item and I might not agree with changing vital systems out of the blue, but that is the risk you take.

OK the only thing I tiered was an Opalo and I didn't loose anything so this maybe easy for me to say.

 

[DavinFelth]

I don't know

I really don't know if there should be compensation or not. I guess not having it goes in line with everything that has been done in the past. I mean I could list all kinds of things (example is shops being moved after VU). If you chose to take the risk then you had to be prepared to loose the item. I never lost an item, although I only tiered up a dozen or so items. I would have never taken the risk of tiering something over 1k either.

My question is: They say this will make it more balanced... How? If it's always a success and you don't need a second item... this only makes it easier to get high end tier stuff. I now don't have to buy a second marber to tier up, I can just do it. I am not at tier .9 yet, but I still hadn't decided if I was going to buy one at that point or not. Now I see I don't have to make that decision. It seems like it makes it less balanced. Now anyone get a high tier item with just the time put in tiering it.

Do people agree/disagree?
Will this actually make it more balanced, or am I missing somthing???

 

[Nicole]

I probably will gain alot because of this new system, but I have some very close friends that where really hurt by this and that a bad thing ....

Friends that risked tens of thousands of peds, and other friends that lost a bussiness ..

 

[Xavier_Jr]

Well, i think normally laws and rules are not retroactive. If not, i want compensation too, because I killed thousands and thousands and thousands fefoids, but i have never found an angel armour piece, like it was possible in older times. Everybody will need a compensation for one or another reason.

 

[Fopsie]

Hate me for saying this but no.
No compensation you gambled you lost your problem. No one forced you to do it.

Most refused to use the system and as a result they changed it. Should just have stayed with the majority and boycotted it completely until now but those that did was willing to lose an item to try and have no right in crying about it now, they knew what they wore risking.

 

[Harmony.]

Nope, i don't think so. Yes it totally sucks for people that lost items or invested a lot, and i really feel for them. But i think it is nearly impossible to find out who lost what (with all the tiering services going around), and people did something for a price that was worth it for them at the time. I payed 2k for some armor parts that are worth 500 peds now, that was because of introduction of limited armors. Shouldn't i get some compensation too then??

It sucks, but i'd like to believe that anyone who lost a really expensive item new the risk of something like this would happen.

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

They had a choice, they were warned, they took the risk....


Should NOT be reimbursed imo

 

[jenny ferr]

even the opalo t10 (seriously, what's the highest anyones got on opalo so far? 4? And that cost like 600+ ped in ingredients, right?)

Doubt it's that much, look at the tiering recipe thread, atleast I know my T3 tt fist haven't cost anything near that in materials, but the cost to get the subtiers THATS a whole other story... (got figures of that too if you want to see, not return % tho but peds cycled in repairs)

 

[CycoKick]

I think people should be given the option just like with accidently tting stuff

Pay 2500 ped+the value of a failed tiering process in the new system so they can get a item back.

For instance people who lost foerippers and the likes of that should be reinbursed at a fee that makes MA more money but eases some of this pain that is beeing caused by MA doing this.

This would prevent most items from beeing given back but the very expensive ones..

 

[Nihilist]

they should give lost SGA items back.

 

[Lugzan]

no, because the risk was declared very clearly.

I can feel sorry for people in many cases but in this situation... well, if you can't handle the risk, you don't take it, sorry. plus, as far as I know, not a major % of the existing valuable items were lost.

Marco, with all the respect, if it was a planned act to hurt some of the gamblers (can't see directly, how that could help the rest, but it's possible indirectly), you succeeded without a doubt. but pretty please, with loads of sugar on the top, stop the empty promises... I know, it can be a part of The Plan, it can be a peculiarity of a person so to speak, but it does everything else except encouraging the players trust...

P.S. can someone see the (most likely) reason behind the change in question?


J.

 

[remontoire]

I think people should be given the option just like with accidently tting stuff

Pay 2500 ped+the value of a failed tiering process in the new system so they can get a item back.

For instance people who lost foerippers and the likes of that should be reinbursed at a fee that makes MA more money but eases some of this pain that is beeing caused by MA doing this.

This would prevent most items from beeing given back but the very expensive ones..

Uhh... so ... tiering services charged an insurance fee, tiered up things, made a profit regardless of lost items and now they want the lost items back? NO Fing WAY! Enough of the "we are poor starving übers, we need compensation for any mistake we make" crap already.

 

[Nooba]

I'd say "no" since imo tiering was something you did on the understanding that you could lose the 2nd item, so if you couldn't afford or didn't want to lose the 2nd item, then you didn't do it, particularly since it was stated that at some point unique items could be upgraded, be it by the rumoured "replicator" or by changing the system as they have.

I do feel sorry for the people who have lost items, but they were not forced to do so in any way, and it was very clear from early on that there was a risk of loss with the system as it was.

 

[XeroX2]

If I get a compensation for everything I made which led to a loss in entropia they can have a compensation. Otherwise no. Because there is no difference between the activities I did and those of the tierers. They where all about risking some real money. Well I guess many ppl don't like it but that won't change my mind.
So kinda what remontoire said.

 

[Rasta]

no, because the risk was declared very clearly.

I can feel sorry for people in many cases but in this situation... well, if you can't handle the risk, you don't take it, sorry. plus, as far as I know, not a major % of the existing valuable items were lost.

Marco, with all the respect, if it was a planned act to hurt some of the gamblers (can't see directly, how that could help the rest, but it's possible indirectly), you succeeded without a doubt. but pretty please, with loads of sugar on the top, stop the empty promises... I know, it can be a part of The Plan, it can be a peculiarity of a person so to speak, but it does everything else except encouraging the players trust...

P.S. can someone see the (most likely) reason behind the change in question?


J.

I totaly agree.
When there is a new feature in EU it is always like a kind of BETA & MA adjust it later.
Since you are informed about the risk, it is your own problem.

Best thing is or to wait until the feature is aproved (You never realy know when it is since MA always makes a secret about.)
Or you take the risk.

Have fun with the upgrades.
This is the MA sell-out of standard unlimited Gear.

 

[shoti]

NO compensation, but FFS no NEW CHANGES IN THAT SYTEM MA !!!!!!

 

[Xavier_Jr]

P.S. can someone see the (most likely) reason behind the change in question?
J.

"The tiers", probably, did not generate enough profits for the company, such they had expected. Because a very few people taked the risks linked to "tiering process". But, if now, the process is more simple, more people could take the risk and increase the value of nova fragment. One way, for obtain the loot from the same players and not from the company.

 

[Xen]

Uhh... so ... tiering services charged an insurance fee, tiered up things, made a profit regardless of lost items and now they want the lost items back? NO Fing WAY! Enough of the "we are poor starving übers, we need compensation for any mistake we make" crap already.

Well, there's a problem. Some people made money with insurance deals. Some people were able to essentially sell their item because it was lost in teiring and the insurance paid for it. Those people I don't feel bad for (aside from tiering being much less expensive now for the most part, but that's another issue).

However, some people just straight lost stuff. Before this change, I agree that they knew the risk. But now it's pretty unfair that they took that risk but now there is none.

And it's different from weapon and armor prices slowly depreciating due to L stuff, because that came a long slowly. L stuff came along relatively slowly. This was a sudden change that totally changed the dynamic.

 

[EMW]

Most people will say no because they are jealous of the people with the items and money and actually like that they lost.

Fact.

thats a maybe

 

[Sunab Naverith]

I think people should be given the option just like with accidently tting stuff

Pay 2500 ped+the value of a failed tiering process in the new system so they can get a item back.

For instance people who lost foerippers and the likes of that should be reinbursed at a fee that makes MA more money but eases some of this pain that is beeing caused by MA doing this.

This would prevent most items from beeing given back but the very expensive ones..

they should give lost SGA items back.

These two ideas should be merged, IMO. Unique and never-to-be-seen again items should be returned. This isn't like TTing them. I abhor the idea of incomplete sets of armors, because people lost SGA pieces in attempting to tier them. Im also for this for any other SGA items, just so that they can be returned. Although I say increase the amount paid perhaps based upon a sliding scale of rarity and/or the market value.
Or have the tierer themselves, the one who lost it, if they pay MA for it, the item goes back to original owner

Uhh... so ... tiering services charged an insurance fee, tiered up things, made a profit regardless of lost items and now they want the lost items back? NO Fing WAY! Enough of the "we are poor starving übers, we need compensation for any mistake we make" crap already.

You're reading it wrong (I hope). Some tiering services didn't 'own' the second item, they 'rented' it, and the insurance fee paid the owner of the second item a large % due to the chance of loss. Read above... I'm for the items being returned, for the simple fact THEY DON'T DROP ANYMORE. Although we have no idea what this new harbinger event is going to bring, so it very well may come out with a statement from Calypso Government stating,
"Due to this new threat, our old manufacturing plants have been brought back online, and the resultant shipments of old-design weapons have, alas, been eaten by all the various creatures on Calypso as we were transporting them around the planet for dispersion to the defendants. You are advised to kill all creatures in an attempt to retrieve these weapons. On a future note, we should stop making weapons out of animal oils. Turns out it just makes them tastier."

 

[Dreicc]

compensation or not hard to say but some item like sga are "unique and special" it's sad some of them are lost.

In other way, who is penalized by this change ? Player who invest money and time ingame so few of the best customer of this "game". Maybe MA need to think a little about their business and give back item lost in the old tier system will be one good option for not loosing more active player. It's alway the same story if no player are here for spend money it's the end and I don't think things like this make a good advertisement for futur investors.

 

[Stryker]

No one forced any hands. People who took the risk and lost items themselves, or justified the cost to use a "service" were fully aware when doing so.

It seems like the majority of complaints pertain to the latter scenario, in which case I'd say you paid a luxury price and were in turn able to enjoy tiered items before the rest of the community.

Hindsight is 20/20; patience is a virtue. Roll with the punches, or take your talents to South Bea- err, elsewhere.

 

[burnsey]

No one forced any hands. People who took the risk and lost items themselves, or justified the cost to use a "service" were fully aware when doing so.

It seems like the majority of complaints pertain to the latter scenario, in which case I'd say you paid a luxury price and were in turn able to enjoy tiered items before the rest of the community.

Hindsight is 20/20; patience is a virtue. Roll with the punches, or take your talents to South Bea- err, elsewhere.

Makes people wonder why no warants tiered any items, perhaps they have some mystical sixth sense of new "features" in the works...

 

[Stryker]

Makes people wonder why no warants tiered any items, perhaps they have some mystical sixth sense of new "features" in the works...

Because we're the ones who spammed the Tiering Hof list today, right? Probably just a coincidence that a society full of hunters had so much TT ore on hand.

 

[XeroX2]

Because we're the ones who spammed the Tiering Hof list today, right? Probably just a coincidence that a society full of hunters had so much TT ore on hand.

Uhm Stryker I don't agree with all the warrants bashing people...
BUT if that statement in quote was meant to defend yourself that wont't be very effective I am afraid.
Well might be that i missed some kind of irony though.

 

[Luckycharm]

Without a doubt: Absolutely there should be compensation!


Why? Because we were lied to, again.*

It was implied a replicator would be introduced (stumbled upon, looted?) that could be used as a substitute for the 2nd ingredient. Naturally a replicator would be rare and golden as it could be used to tier up mod faps/mercs or anything as well. This whole replicator thing was a lie...

In other words: never would a replicator be used for something worth "only" 15k ped or 30k even as it would be worth more and unsalvageable on failure as well, just like a real 2nd ingredient. There would not be a real way to upgrade UL items without risking a 2nd one for items till a certain level. Therefore many of us had to take major risks in order to get improved stats and there would never be a less costly way to achieve it.

Now I've to admit I don't know what the costs will be for each tier to increase, but it will without a doubt be way less than losing a 2nd pricey item. The skills make getting tiers up "easier" I read, so that's probably tiering skill getting referred to. That means the ones that ran services and asked lots of ped for taking the big risk have still an advantage.

The ones that upgraded and lost items doing/attempting so for themselves have only suffered due to this decision and the balance is gone as far as I can ever find a balance here anyways. Lots of peds have been thrown in to get something that has now become "affordable". I don't mind it being affordable, not at all I think it's a great thing. But a balance must be kept and I think the items should be returned to the ones that lost them under strict conditions.

The residue gained must be returned by the deceived participant and the items used for ingredients needed nowadays must be handed over as well. Then the item lost must be returned at a TT value of 0 ped in case the participant wants to use this option. That's the only fair way to restore this disrupted balance imo, in which case the tier/upgrade service runners will come out especially well.


What I don´t understand at all is all the people I see replying here that there should be no compensation. Especially the ones that have never lost a pricey item in this process themselves. What makes you think you can judge here? What is it to you that the people that have been "abused" by this update would not be allowed to get compensation? If you never had anything to do with the matter? Are you people so afraid people get their deposited money back and you yourselves want great returns in loot or you wouldn't mind losing 15k ped in a short time with all ur own activities either? Because to me if you say no compensation for the disrupted balance it means you yourself are not worthy of any returns at all. I'm pretty disgusted to see how many more have become some kind of selfish troll, aside from the usual bad karma people.

I believe in that karma and that what goes around comes around. The ones feeling adressed should think about that. It's very easy to say you knew the risks, noone forced you to do it etc etc, but in that case you clearly don't see the injustice done by this at all.


Not long ago something similar happened. The introduction of SME. Again, don't get me wrong, I love SME. Now we don't have to pay markup for using several mindforce chips. We did however pay 180% or more for years to skill up all our mindforce professions. When SME was introduced skills were "cheap" to gain as the markup was no longer there. This also influenced the ones that had paid loads of K ped to gain skills in these professions. Suddenly the skill was worth only 56% of what it used to be or less. That number i get from dividing 100 by 180 the markups for the "ammo" that was required. On top of that our profession standings got nerfed in some areas. Level 42 electro was suddenly downed to lvl 27 electro for instance. That's an amazing drop there. Again no compensation for the ones disadvantaged by this action at all. Bit of a pitty because skills are absolutely nada to mindark. They don't even have a TT, that is the value of the skill implant, not the skills in it. Why not compemsate I wonder? There should also have been skill improvements using that TT factor and multiplied by 1.8, the difference created by making SME the new ammo to gain the skills.

Look around you in real life and try think of balances connected to several things. It's all around us. It shouldn't be disrupted, but kept!




*Other big costly lie:

SGA it was implied all items were lootable from start. This was definately not the case, many of us spent many K's of ped trying to get a nice item while they weren't even inserted in the lootpool, that was done over weeks and weeks. Imagine having all these things and more happening to you, would you really feel this is fair treatment by mindark? Seriously... it's our real money they seem to be playing with.

 

[kosmos]

No compensation. Call me a fanboy, or call me someone that read the eula and accepted it. Says game can change at any time no one forced someone to press accept, spend the money, or have faith the system would never change. Its like investing in oil in real life before the summer months expecting it to rise, and suddenly oil is outlawed in your country. You would be screwed if this happened to you, but will you be compensated by the government or investment firm? probably not.

Makes people wonder why no warants tiered any items, perhaps they have some mystical sixth sense of new "features" in the works...

I am not a warrent and my gut told me not to bother with the teiring system

kosmos

 

[Tycoon]

I have payed for insured tiering service 3 times to get my LR48 up to tier 3!
Also, I've lost FAP69-SGA to tier fail before any insured services were available!

I would very much appreciate some form of compensation... having my FAP69-SGA back would be great!

MA screwed the tier upgraders and the people who have already been using the tier system for unlimited items that was in place before this new updated system came out!

Make your support cases people!!!

 

[Sunab Naverith]

Uhm Stryker I don't agree with all the warrants bashing people...
BUT if that statement in quote was meant to defend yourself that wont't be very effective I am afraid.
Well might be that i missed some kind of irony though.

Here's a hint - look at the hof list and see the society listed most often. He wasn't referring to his.